2013 Baseball Season/Off-Season Discussion

[tim_m]

Which only continues to prove you really know nothing at all about Rivera.

So you'll sit there and say that Thursday nights "drama" with Jeter and Petite going out to the mound and all of the celebrations were not staged? I have a hard time believing that it all just happened.

All I'm saying if Rivera was so humble as he's made out to be, he would've taken the high road and told everyone not to make a big scene. If the fans want to give and standing ovation in every stadium, that would have been real nice and honored Rivera quite well without all of the hoopla and the staged ceremonies to "bring attention to ourselves" mentality.

I don't think it was staged at all. Rivera looked shocked it was them that came to get them and not Girardi. The way the other teams honored him was their choice. Its not like he demanded gifts and a ceremony in his honor his last time at each ballpark. The meet and greet things he did before the games with employees, fans etc during his last visits to each city was the most important thing to him.

[pilferk]

I'm absoultely ready for all these "staged" farewells and goodbyes to Mariano Rivera to finally be over with. Last night's display was exaclty how staged all of this has been. The guy was a good pitcher and probably a nice guy as well. But all of this dramatic farewell makes you want to throw-up.

I've always had a problem with "attention seekers." Mariano could have simply taken the high road and said no thanks to all of this attention but he didn't. In the end, he's an attention whore like the majority of today's celebrity and althletes.

Are you fucking kidding me? If you really think that you don't know a damn thing about Rivera.

I was about to say the same thing.

Listen to the man talk, look at the way he's conducted himself on the field and off...this isn't about attention for him.  It's about saying thank you to the people who work in the background and contribute to making this game great. 

And its about people around the league saying thank you to him for what he's meant to the game, both on the field and off.

Anyone who thinks otherwise isn't paying enough attention to have an opinion that carries any merit on the subject.  Really that simple.

[pilferk]

Which only continues to prove you really know nothing at all about Rivera.

So you'll sit there and say that Thursday nights "drama" with Jeter and Petite going out to the mound and all of the celebrations were not staged? I have a hard time believing that it all just happened.

Define staged?

Pre-planned? Nope.  Not according to every single person involved.  Girardi said he had been trying to think up something fitting for awhile.  He had a couple ideas, but wasn't sure they would work.  He didn't talk to anyone about them, preferring for it to be more spontaneous.  And he didn't ultimately pick one until the 8th inning. when Mo was trotting out to the mound.

He talked to Jeter and Pettite in the 8th inning.  Then he talked to Mo to see if he would mind being taken out with 2 outs in the 9th, rather than finishing the game.  THEN he talked to the officials between the 8th and 9th inning to see if it would even be allowed.

Mo didn't know how it was going down, exactly, when he took the mound in the 9th.   Yankess brass didn't know. The broadcasters certainly didn't know (witness Kay saying "Mo's got one more out left in his Yankee career after getting the 2nd out in the 9th, seconds before Jeter and Andy left the dugout).

Staged in the sense that it was meant to be a dramatic moment that gave the crowd a chance to give him a rousing send off? Sure.  So what?  It's what the fans in attendance really wanted.  And if you disagree...all you have to do is listen to the broadcast.  That was about the loudest I've heard the new stadium since it opened.

All I'm saying if Rivera was so humble as he's made out to be, he would've taken the high road and told everyone not to make a big scene. If the fans want to give and standing ovation in every stadium, that would have been real nice and honored Rivera quite well without all of the hoopla and the staged ceremonies to "bring attention to ourselves" mentality.

I don't think that's the high road.  In fact, I think "the high road" is letting the fans, players, and teams say their goodbyes EVEN if it makes you uncomfortable.  Because you're putting their desires over your own.  You're showing class...which is all Mo has ever done, EVER.

Again, if you don't know enough about the man to realize that...and instead decide to let your Yankee hate color your opinion...then, really, your opinion isn't informed enough on the subject to make it matter much.

You've  just seen the best closer in history walk away from the game...and realize that his place in history, and his character, buy a little fanfare for that sendoff.

[GeorgeSteele]

I'm absoultely ready for all these "staged" farewells and goodbyes to Mariano Rivera to finally be over with. Last night's display was exaclty how staged all of this has been. The guy was a good pitcher and probably a nice guy as well. But all of this dramatic farewell makes you want to throw-up.

I've always had a problem with "attention seekers." Mariano could have simply taken the high road and said no thanks to all of this attention but he didn't. In the end, he's an attention whore like the majority of today's celebrity and althletes.

Are you fucking kidding me? If you really think that you don't know a damn thing about Rivera.

I was about to say the same thing.

Listen to the man talk, look at the way he's conducted himself on the field and off...this isn't about attention for him.  It's about saying thank you to the people who work in the background and contribute to making this game great. 

And its about people around the league saying thank you to him for what he's meant to the game, both on the field and off.

Anyone who thinks otherwise isn't paying enough attention to have an opinion that carries any merit on the subject.  Really that simple.

Exactly.  I would also add that attention, celebrations, honors, etc., whether staged or not, should be devoted to greatness, especially during times when media tends to focus on the exact opposite.

[Drew]

Define staged?

Pre-planned? Nope.  Not according to every single person involved.  Girardi said he had been trying to think up something fitting for awhile.  He had a couple ideas, but wasn't sure they would work.  He didn't talk to anyone about them, preferring for it to be more spontaneous.  And he didn't ultimately pick one until the 8th inning. when Mo was trotting out to the mound.

He talked to Jeter and Pettite in the 8th inning.  Then he talked to Mo to see if he would mind being taken out with 2 outs in the 9th, rather than finishing the game.  THEN he talked to the officials between the 8th and 9th inning to see if it would even be allowed.

Mo didn't know how it was going down, exactly, when he took the mound in the 9th.   Yankess brass didn't know. The broadcasters certainly didn't know (witness Kay saying "Mo's got one more out left in his Yankee career after getting the 2nd out in the 9th, seconds before Jeter and Andy left the dugout).

Staged in the sense that it was meant to be a dramatic moment that gave the crowd a chance to give him a rousing send off? Sure.  So what?  It's what the fans in attendance really wanted.  And if you disagree...all you have to do is listen to the broadcast.  That was about the loudest I've heard the new stadium since it opened.

Staged by someone in the organization, a coach, or manager. You just said that Girardi had been trying to think of something fitting for awhile. How's is that not pre-planned? Girardi organized what he wanted to happen. It didn't just happen naturally. It doesn't matter whether the entire world knew what was goning to happen or one person. It was still planned. In this case, at least four people knew what was going to happen before it actually happened and Rivera being one of them, plus the officials that cleared the plan. How's that not pre-planned and staged?

I don't think that's the high road.  In fact, I think "the high road" is letting the fans, players, and teams say their goodbyes EVEN if it makes you uncomfortable.  Because you're putting their desires over your own.  You're showing class...which is all Mo has ever done, EVER.

Again, if you don't know enough about the man to realize that...and instead decide to let your Yankee hate color your opinion...then, really, your opinion isn't informed enough on the subject to make it matter much.

You've  just seen the best closer in history walk away from the game...and realize that his place in history, and his character, buy a little fanfare for that sendoff.

I knew someone would eventually say someone's opinion isn't warranted becaue of their hatred for the Yankess. I'm shocked it's not because someone's a racist. Liberal bullshit propaganda 101. I don't have a problem with any certain team. I have a problem with fake and staged celebrations. What necessary reason at all was there a need to send two people out to the mound to get Rivera? Where in basball does this happen? Maybe it's happened before, I don't remember.

The fans were going to give Rivera the send-off they wanted to give him regardless what any manager, coach, player, or organization wanted to pre-plan.

I said Rivera seems to be a good guy and classy. But your right, I don't know him so in reality he could be a child molestor, rapist, or murderer. We've all seen celebrities put on a mantle only to have fooled the public to believeing something that wasn't true.

[Drew]

I don't think it was staged at all. Rivera looked shocked it was them that came to get them and not Girardi. The way the other teams honored him was their choice.

Pilferk said Girardi sopke with several teamates and Rivera about what he wanted to do. So if Rivera knew this all along, it at least fooled you to believe it wasn't all staged when indeed it was staged.

The meet and greet things he did before the games with employees, fans etc during his last visits to each city was the most important thing to him.

To me that's class. That's soemthing Rivera wanted to do to give back and say thank you. All the things one does without the camera's following their every move. I'm sure Rivera met with a lot of people privately to say thanks. There was never any need to stage a mound get-together for attention.

[pilferk]

Staged by someone in the organization, a coach, or manager. You just said that Girardi had been trying to think of something fitting for awhile. How's is that not pre-planned? Girardi organized what he wanted to happen. It didn't just happen naturally. It doesn't matter whether the entire world knew what was goning to happen or one person. It was still planned. In this case, at least four people knew what was going to happen before it actually happened and Rivera being one of them, plus the officials that cleared the plan. How's that not pre-planned and staged?

Staging implies significant pre-planning, alerting everyone involved (Rivera didn't know Andy and Jetes were coming out til they did, only that he would be pulled, FYI), and choreography. IE: Staging a play.

That's not what happened.

By the definition you're implying, pretty much everything in life is staged, since you have to think before you act, even if it's a mirco-second prior.

Pre-planned, to me, means they knew what was going down going into the game.

Not 10 min prior to it actually happening...with 4 people (out of the 40k-ish) in the building having any inkling of what might happen in the minutes prior. That's pretty organic and spontaneous, considering if the officials don't approve it, you could be fined and suspended.

I knew someone would eventually say someone's opinion isn't warranted becaue of their hatred for the Yankess. I'm shocked it's not because someone's a racist. Liberal bullshit propaganda 101. I don't have a problem with any certain team. I have a problem with fake and staged celebrations. What necessary reason at all was there a need to send two people out to the mound to get Rivera? Where in basball does this happen? Maybe it's happened before, I don't remember.

All the time.

Molina last night.

Chipper Jones all last season.

It's pretty much business as usual.....the only difference is, this was the Yanks.

And you apparently don't really know anything about Rivera.

The fans were going to give Rivera the send-off they wanted to give him regardless what any manager, coach, player, or organization wanted to pre-plan.

And they did what could be done to prolong and accentuate that moment.

Which is much tougher at the end of a game.

It's done ALL THE TIME with retiring pitchers....so they can tip their cap to the fans as they go.

The only difference was: Who took him out.

I said Rivera seems to be a good guy and classy. But your right, I don't know him so in reality he could be a child molestor, rapist, or murderer. We've all seen celebrities put on a mantle only to have fooled the public to believeing something that wasn't true.

Right...thanks for proving my point so concisely.....

[pilferk]

Pilferk said Girardi sopke with several teamates and Rivera about what he wanted to do. So if Rivera knew this all along, it at least fooled you to believe it wasn't all staged when indeed it was staged.

Not several...2. Jeter and Andy.  In the bottom of the 8th inning, while the Yanks were batting. That's it.

The only thing he asked Mo was if he minded being taken out in the 9th.  No other details. Which he asked him JUST before he went out to pitch the 9th (because Mo had gone into the clubhouse to compose himself between innings).

He asked the home plate umpire, during the 8th inning break (between the top and the bottom) if it would be allowed to let Andy and Jeter pull Rivera...Girardi said he decided to try it RIGHT before going out to talk to him.

THATS what I said.

There were, essentially, 4 people "in on it"...3 of them brought into it about 10 to 15 min prior to it occurring.  And the "mastermind" saying he decided to go with THAT idea, ultimately, maybe 5 min prior to that.

20 min from start to execution...yeah, that's long term planning right there. 

To me that's class. That's soemthing Rivera wanted to do to give back and say thank you. All the things one does without the camera's following their every move. I'm sure Rivera met with a lot of people privately to say thanks. There was never any need to stage a mound get-together for attention.

Need? No.  But there's no need to throw a little ball across a plate and let someone try to hit it with a wooden bat, either.

There was no need to let Lou Gehrig come say goodbye to the crowds at The Stadium, either.

It was a way to show HIM appreciation..after all the stuff he had done for the game, the Yankees, and the off the field charity work he's done.  And a way to let the fans have as long expressing their gratitude to him as possible.

[Drew]

Pilferk, your idea of planned, my idea of planned, other peoples idea of planned can all be different. One could say it's not planning if it's less than 24 hours before the event. Or less than two days, three days, a week, 15 minutes, 30 minutes, etc., etc. Whether something is significantly planned or just planned. In the end it's still planned. Yeah, things are planned every day. Starting pitchers and team lineups are announced. My point is the stagging of something that normally doesn't occur turned out to be very phony. Having Jeter and Petite walked out to the mound to pull another player. I don't recall this to have happened before. The event was staged was to create a dramatic scene that wasn't needed. The fans were going to stand and cheer no matter who went to pull Rivera. It just so happened in this game that two popular Yankee teamates walk out to create the grand exit of Rivera. Fans are pretty smart on their own. They don't need to be given a sign or have some event drummed up so fans can cheer for someone.

FYI, I didn't ask when do celebrations ever take place. I asked when does two players go out to the mound to pull a pitcher. THAT'S what I asked! As I said, I don't remember this ever happening but I could be wrong. I didn't ask when do celebrations ever take place cause sports and celebrations go hand in hand. Again, I don't have any problems with celebrations. It's went the celebrations turn out to look staged and dramatic for more attention that I have a problem with. We may disagree and that's fine.

Another point has been made that I don't know Rivera at all. I've even said I don't know Rivera except for what I seen on televison and heard from Rivera himself. As I said, Rivera could be a child molestor for all I know. I've made that point. But who here really knows Rivera? Do you and Timothy25 know Rivera? Or do you just know Rivera by what you've seen, read, and heard on t.v., radio, or the internet? The public Rivera is probably what the majority of people know of Rivera. That's a thin line to walk when we've seen in the past a lot of people who many thought were good people, really weren't.

[tim_m]

LDS series in the NL are now set. Dodgers vs Braves and St. Louis vs. Pittsburgh. I'm picking the Dodgers and Pirates. Sorry Falcon; its nothing personal. Its just great seeing the Pirates playing meaningful ball in October.

[pilferk]

I'm going sentimental:

Pirates vs Dodgers in the NLCS

Cleveland vs A's in ALCS

Pirates vs Indians in WS (and the ratings will be awful!).

It'll never, ever happen. Not least of which because Cleveland has had no answer for TB (2-4) OR Boston (1-6) this year.  But it's what I'm going with anyway.

[GeorgeSteele]

For a good laugh, go back and check the playoff predictions on pages 5 and 6 of this thread.  I think my prediction of the Giants as the WS winner takes the cake.

At this point, I'll go with Pirates/Braves NLDS, Rays/A's ALDS, Braves/A's WS and A's WS winner. 

[tim_m]

I'm pulling for the Dodgers to go all the way for selfish reasons. I want to see Mattingly holding that trophy.

I'll say Dodgers vs. Pirates in the NLCS

Oakland vs. Boston in the ALCS

Dodgers vs Boston in the World Series

Dodgers win.

[pilferk]

And...there go the Indians.  So sad....we hardly knew ya.

[tim_m]

And...there go the Indians.  So sad....we hardly knew ya.

Yep, they were never in that game at all.

[Drew]

I think the Dodgers will be tough for the Braves to beat but they did handle them in the regular season if I remember correctly.

The Rays/Red Sox series will be interersting, and right now, I'd say the Red Sox are probably the favorite to win.

I think the Cardinals will win their series versus the Pirates and I'd like to see the A's beat the Tigers.

[pilferk]

Nice to see aj Burnett still handles pressure well! 

[tim_m]

Nice to see aj Burnett still handles pressure well! 

LOL a friend and i are discussing that right now on Facebook. He did however win a big game for us against the Angels in 09 in the LCS. Gotta give him that at least.

[pilferk]

Nice to see aj Burnett still handles pressure well! 

LOL a friend and i are discussing that right now on Facebook. He did however win a big game for us against the Angels in 09 in the LCS. Gotta give him that at least.

He seemed to develop a bit of brass in 09...and then completely lost it by next season. And he's done fine in Pittsburgh, with zero pressure. First game with any real pressure, and he crumbles again.

[tim_m]

Nice to see aj Burnett still handles pressure well! 

LOL a friend and i are discussing that right now on Facebook. He did however win a big game for us against the Angels in 09 in the LCS. Gotta give him that at least.

He seemed to develop a bit of brass in 09...and then completely lost it by next season. And he's done fine in Pittsburgh, with zero pressure. First game with any real pressure, and he crumbles again.

Yep and its puzzling because he has lights out stuff.