2013 Baseball Season/Off-Season Discussion

[tim_m]

What about Cano?

I think he's got a shot.

Double edge sword though:

Positive:
Great numbers so far, especially for a middle infielder.

Negative:
Wrong side of thirty and will be in decline sooner than later, maintaining his current level of production will be extremely difficult.

Just have to see how long he can keep up these kinds of numbers.

I'm sure you're happy with how that game ended. That was a helluva close play at home. At first i thought he got him and he was out.

[Falcon]

I'm sure you're happy with how that game ended. That was a helluva close play at home. At first i thought he got him and he was out.

I am indeed

I thought he was out at first look as well, safe on replay though.

[tim_m]

I'm sure you're happy with how that game ended. That was a helluva close play at home. At first i thought he got him and he was out.

I am indeed

I thought he was out at first look as well, safe on replay though.

Yep he was but wow was it close. He just got in there before the tag. A better throw he's out and and by a lot.

[pilferk]

Maybe David Ortiz for that list.  Not a first ballot, sure fire selection...but a good bet given his numbers and how well liked he is.

And the fact his reported PED use was completely swept under the rug and, seemingly, "forgotten" by the media.

Mauer is playing his 10th year, and looks like he might be on track for  HOF consideration.  People forget he JUST turned 30.

It's all about how his body holds up, as a catcher, over the next 5 or 6 years.  This year it's been like a 3/4 C vs 1/4 DH (with a handful of games at 1B).  That gap will probably start swinging more toward DH over the next couple of years.  It'll be interesting to see how that effects his stats.

With Chipper gone, those are the only other guys I can think of.  There's some obvious names getting left off because of the PED stuff, though.

[Falcon]

I don't think Ortiz will ever make it, the PED stuff will re-emerge from under the rug and that'll be that.

That said, there will be a huge push from the New England Chapter of the BBWAA of America and all the "Big Papi" (apologies for the nickname drop, I say it with pure disgust) apologists so who knows really.

[GeorgeSteele]

^ How about Paul Konerko? His numbers are not too far off from Ortiz:

PK --- .281 avg, 431 HRs, 1376 RBIs, 17 yrs, 1 WS ring

DO --- .287 avg, 420 HRs, 1400 RBIs, 17yrs, 2 WS rings

Plus, no PED stink and he was mostly a position player.

[pilferk]

I don't think Ortiz will ever make it, the PED stuff will re-emerge from under the rug and that'll be that.

That said, there will be a huge push from the New England Chapter of the BBWAA of America and all the "Big Papi" (apologies for the nickname drop, I say it with pure disgust) apologists so who knows really.

The media love Ortiz so much...the PED allegations completely have disappeared.  Not even a mention of them, ever.  EVER.

I think it will be a non-factor when it comes time to vote for him.....fairly or not.

[pilferk]

^ How about Paul Konerko? His numbers are not too far off from Ortiz:

PK --- .281 avg, 431 HRs, 1376 RBIs, 17 yrs, 1 WS ring

DO --- .287 avg, 420 HRs, 1400 RBIs, 17yrs, 2 WS rings

Plus, no PED stink and he was mostly a position player.

The difference is that PK has never been considered an MVP level player.  Very good...yes.  But not "elite".  He's never finished above 5th...and usually he's in the mid teens..in MVP voting.  Ortiz has been IN the top 5 4 times and has 5 Silver Sluggers.  I know that stuff shouldn't matter, but...we've seen that with the writers, it does.

It's funny, because he was the other name I was thinking of when I wrote my post...and I decided not to include him. 

I think he's a borderline HOF player..  The PED era may actually help him get in, because there will be a derth of "clean" players for the writers to vote for.

[tim_m]

I could see Ortiz getting in everybody seems to love him. Joe Mauer definitely could be on his way. As you said it just depends on how his body holds up. If it does and he continues to put up numbers like he is he'll get in. You just never know with a catcher cause its such a demanding position that wears you down.

I know we're discussing current active players but what about one recently retired? Jorge Posada. Just some of his stats. He's only the fifth catcher with at least 1,500 hits, 350 doubles, 275 home runs, and 1,000 RBIs in a career. From 2000 to 2011, he compiled more RBIs and home runs than any other catcher in baseball. He is the only MLB catcher to ever bat .330 or better with 40 doubles, 20 home runs, and 90 RBIs in a single season.

[Ali]

I agree with the David Ortiz mention and Joe Mauer provided he continues to produce.  One name that I think deserves consideration, especially if he continues to produce like he has the last couple of years, is Carlos Beltran.  He has 2000 hits, 300 homers and 300 steals, one of only five players to do that.  I also think Adrian Beltre deserves some consideration, but not just for his offense.  He has been very good defensively at third for a long time.

Ali

[Falcon]

I could see Ortiz getting in everybody seems to love him. Joe Mauer definitely could be on his way. As you said it just depends on how his body holds up. If it does and he continues to put up numbers like he is he'll get in. You just never know with a catcher cause its such a demanding position that wears you down.

I know we're discussing current active players but what about one recently retired? Jorge Posada. Just some of his stats. He's only the fifth catcher with at least 1,500 hits, 350 doubles, 275 home runs, and 1,000 RBIs in a career. From 2000 to 2011, he compiled more RBIs and home runs than any other catcher in baseball. He is the only MLB catcher to ever bat .330 or better with 40 doubles, 20 home runs, and 90 RBIs in a single season.

No chance on Posada, 40% maybe.

Much like Ted Simmons (the best catcher by far not in the HOF) playing in the Johnny Bench era, Posada played in the Pudge era and Simmons comps much closer to Bench than Posada does Pudge.  Hell, Simmons was a better hitter than Bench.  Posada was nowhere near Pudge levels offensively or defensively.
 
Interesting Pudge sidebar, we worked out at the same gym while he played for the Tulsa Drillers (Rangers AA affiliate then) - nice guy, he could barely speak English as a 19 year old up and comer.  

[Falcon]

I agree with the David Ortiz mention and Joe Mauer provided he continues to produce.  One name that I think deserves consideration, especially if he continues to produce like he has the last couple of years, is Carlos Beltran.  He has 2000 hits, 300 homers and 300 steals, one of only five players to do that.  I also think Adrian Beltre deserves some consideration, but not just for his offense.  He has been very good defensively at third for a long time.

Ali

I think Beltran's gonna have play a couple of more years at his current level of production to get over the hump.

Mauer's got a very good shot, not a first ballot guy but after a few years he very well could make it if he continues to hang #'s.

Beltre's an interesting name, not someone you immediately think of when talking HOF possibility.

Another guy who recently retired no one really remembers is Jeff Kent - he's going to get in eventually.

"Hall of Famer Jeff Kent" just sounds goofy though.

[tim_m]

Well something interesting just happened. Soriano has become the first Yankee ever to have 6 rbi in back to back games when he hit a grand slam and 2 run double tonight.

[Ali]

I agree with the David Ortiz mention and Joe Mauer provided he continues to produce.  One name that I think deserves consideration, especially if he continues to produce like he has the last couple of years, is Carlos Beltran.  He has 2000 hits, 300 homers and 300 steals, one of only five players to do that.  I also think Adrian Beltre deserves some consideration, but not just for his offense.  He has been very good defensively at third for a long time.

Ali

I think Beltran's gonna have play a couple of more years at his current level of production to get over the hump.

Mauer's got a very good shot, not a first ballot guy but after a few years he very well could make it if he continues to hang #'s.

Beltre's an interesting name, not someone you immediately think of when talking HOF possibility.

Another guy who recently retired no one really remembers is Jeff Kent - he's going to get in eventually.

"Hall of Famer Jeff Kent" just sounds goofy though.

I hadn't noticed this when I posted about Carlos Beltran, but oddly enough, Jerry Crasnick wrote about him and the HOF.  If Crasnick's opinion is any barometer, I'm not sure how much more Beltran needs in order to  make it.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/9563349/the-hall-fame-case-carlos-beltran

As far as Beltre, he's closing in on 400 homers.  If he can get up to 450 homers, with his defense, he deserves serious consideration.

Ali

[Ali]

Well something interesting just happened. Soriano has become the first Yankee ever to have 6 rbi in back to back games when he hit a grand slam and 2 run double tonight.

Make that 7 RBIs after the solo homer.

Ali

[tim_m]

Well something interesting just happened. Soriano has become the first Yankee ever to have 6 rbi in back to back games when he hit a grand slam and 2 run double tonight.

Make that 7 RBIs after the solo homer.

Ali

Wow, hadn't heard that yet. He's really starting to make a difference and help us win some games we desperately need to win.

[tim_m]

Those 13 RBI also put him second on the all time Yankee list for most in a 2 game span and only the third to do it since 1920.

[Falcon]

Just got caught up on the replay plan for 2014 - a 'challenge system"?

Are you fucking kidding me?

Beyond that horseshit..

Molina back in the lineup for Cards, they missed him big time..

Soriano's last 2 nights have been great, he may get one in the back for the Cadillac'n on his two bombs last night but well worth it - big boy homers.

[tim_m]

Just heard about the replay system. I'm not sure how i feel about it yet though. I don't know all the details just yet.

[Falcon]

Just heard about the replay system. I'm not sure how i feel about it yet though. I don't know all the details just yet.

I suspect they'll tweak it as things move ahead.

It's a start at least.