2013 Baseball Season/Off-Season Discussion

[Falcon]

Anyone following the Tino Martinez debacle in TB?

Always heard stories about him being a total dick but this is beyond dickdom.

Maybe he did go a little too far but these aren't 12 year olds. These are million dollar players who get played to hit. Imagine if this was an old school coach. It would've been a lot worse.

True, they're not kids but he showed a pattern of shitty behavior since he took the gig to where it forced him to resign with 2 years left on his contract.

His reputation of being a jackass and clubhouse lawyer in St Louis are legendary.  Screaming down beat reporters and fans on numerous occasions, the Cards finally begged Tampa to take them off their hand at the end of 2003.

[tim_m]

If Rodriguez does in fact aim to appeal a potential suspension, Bud Selig already has a plan, according to the New York Daily News:

    If Alex Rodriguez is intent on fighting his looming suspension in an effort to stay on the field and protect his contract, commissioner Bud Selig is prepared to throw the book at the steroid-stained Yankee by invoking one of his office's most extreme privileges ? the right to take action against a player to preserve the integrity of the game, the Daily News has learned.

    By invoking that rarely used power - embodied in Article XI, Section A1b of the game's collective bargaining agreement - Selig would attempt to effectively keep Rodriguez from ever returning to the field by bypassing the grievance procedure outlined in the joint drug program MLB operates in conjunction with the Players Association.

The report states that A-Rod would immediately be suspended for interfering with MLB's investigation into Biogenesis and would be later given an additional suspension for violating their drug program.

If A-Rod won't cut a deal i'd say he's fucked.

[pilferk]

If Rodriguez does in fact aim to appeal a potential suspension, Bud Selig already has a plan, according to the New York Daily News:

    If Alex Rodriguez is intent on fighting his looming suspension in an effort to stay on the field and protect his contract, commissioner Bud Selig is prepared to throw the book at the steroid-stained Yankee by invoking one of his office's most extreme privileges ? the right to take action against a player to preserve the integrity of the game, the Daily News has learned.

    By invoking that rarely used power - embodied in Article XI, Section A1b of the game's collective bargaining agreement - Selig would attempt to effectively keep Rodriguez from ever returning to the field by bypassing the grievance procedure outlined in the joint drug program MLB operates in conjunction with the Players Association.

The report states that A-Rod would immediately be suspended for interfering with MLB's investigation into Biogenesis and would be later given an additional suspension for violating their drug program.

If A-Rod won't cut a deal i'd say he's fucked.

This sure seems very similar to what the NFL, specifically Goodell, tried with Bountygate. He appointed himself judge, jury, and executioner.  He handed down the sentence AND was the point of appeal.

The NFLPA brought it to court and the court ruled the process violated labor law and had to be modified.

Given that precedent, I'm not sure...were I MLB...I'd want to put myself in that same spot. Selig, essentially, is proposing to use the exact same "power" in the CBA as Goodell did with the NFL CBA.   Again, MLB seemingly has the upper hand in this.  I don't know why you would put yourself in a position to get smacked down by the courts (and, potentially, risk and injunction and damages....the NFLPA suit was pretty much settled before games were being played, so nobody lost game checks) when you seemingly have a cut and dried "win" in hand.  But MLB seems to continually do stuff like this...(and not just in player greivances)...snapping defeat from the jaws of victory.

But we'll see.

I agree: I think Arod might be screwed.  But I think the battle that's going to ensue is potentially going to be the most interesting bit of theater in MLB in a very long time....

And, win or lose, MLB could come out of this a very changed organization...and maybe NOT stronger than they were before.

[AxlsMainMan]

Bottom line is that Rodriguez is officially the Lance Armstrong of baseball: a selfish, self-absorbed, narcissistic fraud.

[tim_m]

Its very clear that Selig is intent on ending the career or A-Rod. The only question is will he be successful. I think win or lose MLB could be successful in ending A-Rod's career. If he goes this route it'll be a pretty lengthy court battle potentially robbing A-Rod of next season as well. Under this he'd be gone immediately and unable to play until its settled. By then he could be nearly 40 and missed two full seasons. So its almost a win win for Selig even if he loses.

[pilferk]

Its very clear that Selig is intent on ending the career or A-Rod. The only question is will he be successful. I think win or lose MLB could be successful in ending A-Rod's career. If he goes this route it'll be a pretty lengthy court battle potentially robbing A-Rod of next season as well. Under this he'd be gone immediately and unable to play until its settled. By then he could be nearly 40 and missed two full seasons. So its almost a win win for Selig even if he loses.

If it were to go to court, and the judge thought there were grounds...they could very well issue an injunction on the suspension.  That would mean Arod would play until the court ruled.

It would take some time to get there (Selig would suspend, Arod would ask for a stay while appealing, Selig would deny the stay, and then rule on the appeal...and only THEN could Arod go to court seeking a similar ruling to the one the NFLPA got).  Could, potentially, take til the season ends (ie: Selig drags it out as long as possible so it has) til it gets to the courts, and then it's a moot point.

But, yes...unless everything falls into place for him..it could be the end of his career.

Which is the one and only reason the MLBPA might fight hard for him.  Because the precedent it sets isn't very good for their membership.

[pilferk]

Bottom line is that Rodriguez is officially the Lance Armstrong of baseball: a selfish, self-absorbed, narcissistic fraud.

So...nothing has changed?

Haters always gonna hate.  And Arod had more than enough haters before....long before.  This adds a bit more ground for them to stand on  And it probably adds a few more to the ranks.

But....lets face it....he wasn't going to win a popularity contest before Biogenesis game to light.  The guy has been a socially inept, cocky, asshole for most of his career....and he was uber successful and made tons of money.  He was the anti-Jeter, basically...the guy everyone loves to hate (even fans of the teams he played for) and root against.  In wrestling parleyance, he was ever the heel.

This might add a bit more heat, but the guy was never going to turn babyface, anyway.

[tim_m]

Its very clear that Selig is intent on ending the career or A-Rod. The only question is will he be successful. I think win or lose MLB could be successful in ending A-Rod's career. If he goes this route it'll be a pretty lengthy court battle potentially robbing A-Rod of next season as well. Under this he'd be gone immediately and unable to play until its settled. By then he could be nearly 40 and missed two full seasons. So its almost a win win for Selig even if he loses.

If it were to go to court, and the judge thought there were grounds...they could very well issue an injunction on the suspension.  That would mean Arod would play until the court ruled.

It would take some time to get there (Selig would suspend, Arod would ask for a stay while appealing, Selig would deny the stay, and then rule on the appeal...and only THEN could Arod go to court seeking a similar ruling to the one the NFLPA got).  Could, potentially, take til the season ends (ie: Selig drags it out as long as possible so it has) til it gets to the courts, and then it's a moot point.

But, yes...unless everything falls into place for him..it could be the end of his career.

Which is the one and only reason the MLBPA might fight hard for him.  Because the precedent it sets isn't very good for their membership.

If this does in fact end it i can't say i'll be sorry to see him go. He's done this to himself. The latest i'm hearing is no suspension announcement until Thursday or Friday after the trade deadline.

[tim_m]

Bottom line is that Rodriguez is officially the Lance Armstrong of baseball: a selfish, self-absorbed, narcissistic fraud.

So...nothing has changed?

Haters always gonna hate.  And Arod had more than enough haters before....long before.  This adds a bit more ground for them to stand on  And it probably adds a few more to the ranks.

But....lets face it....he wasn't going to win a popularity contest before Biogenesis game to light.  The guy has been a socially inept, cocky, asshole for most of his career....and he was uber successful and made tons of money.  He was the anti-Jeter, basically...the guy everyone loves to hate (even fans of the teams he played for) and root against.  In wrestling parleyance, he was ever the heel.

This might add a bit more heat, but the guy was never going to turn babyface, anyway.

Personally i'd point to Ryan Braun more then Rodriguez as the Lance Armstrong of baseball. A-Rod did admit years ago to using. He's denying it this time but he has in the past admitted it. Now look at Braun, this punk repeatedly lied and denied it, ruined lives and reputations of people to continue to cover up his lies. Then after he finally admits it and gets suspended he releases a short statement then disappears. No real apology to the fans, teammates, ownership or people he threw under the bus to protect his lies. Personally i think he's worse then Armstrong. At least he went on national tv and came clean and apologized to everyone. This punk Braun just went into hiding.

[GeorgeSteele]

The report states that A-Rod would immediately be suspended for interfering with MLB's investigation into Biogenesis and would be later given an additional suspension for violating their drug program.

What are they saying he did that constitutes "interfering with MLB's investigation"?  From the articles I've read, all I've seen is that they say he purchased Biogenesis documents.  So?  That's not proof that he would have tampered with the records, destroyed them or even not have been cooperative with providing the investigators with any documents he purchased.  Maybe he just purchased them to make sure MLB wouldn't tamper or falsify the records.  Of course, I don't believe that, but the point is that I don't think merely buying the records is proof of anything.

[tim_m]

I think he bought them with intent to destroy them. That's interfering. It looks like were about 72 hours away from suspensions. I'm hearing the majority of those connected to biogenisis plan to simply accept punishment of at least 50 games. There will be upwards of a dozen or more suspensions handed out at that time. Rodriguez continues to the the big hold out vowing to go down fighting. This is about to get real very soon.

[tim_m]

MLBPA told which players suspended
Associated Press

NEW YORK -- Major League Baseball has told the union which players it intends to suspend in its drug investigation and which ones will receive lengthier penalties for their roles in the Biogenesis case, two people familiar with the talks told The Associated Press.

The sides are trying to reach as many agreements as possible that would avoid grievance hearings, and talks could push back an announcement until Friday.

The meeting between MLB and the union on Tuesday, first reported by the New York Daily News, signaled the final stretch of talks. MLB hopes to announce the penalties for all players involved at the same time, both people said, speaking on condition of anonymity because no announcements were authorized.

Three-time MVP Alex Rodriguez of the New York Yankees stands to receive the longest suspension. The stiffer penalties for some players are tied to other alleged violations, including not being truthful to MLB investigators.

Three 2013 All-Stars could face bans: Texas outfielder Nelson Cruz, San Diego shortstop Everth Cabrera and Detroit shortstop Jhonny Peralta.

Another 2013 All-Star, Oakland pitcher Bartolo Colon, was suspended last year following a positive testosterone test, as were Toronto outfielder Melky Cabrera and San Diego catcher Yasmani Grandal. They won't receive additional discipline for that violation, the two people said.

Yankees catcher Francisco Cervelli and Seattle catcher Jesus Montero also have been linked in media reports to Biogenesis, a closed Florida anti-aging clinic that was accused by Miami New Times in January of distributing banned performing-enhancing drugs.

Melky Cabrera was the 2012 All-Star Game MVP while with San Francisco and Colon won the 2005 AL Cy Young Award with the Los Angeles Angels.

Players who don't reach agreements can ask the players' association to file grievances, which would lead to hearings before arbitrator Fredric Horowitz. Discipline for first offenders under the drug agreement usually is not announced until after the penalty is upheld, but there is an exception when the conduct leading to the discipline already has been made public.

In addition, MLB may try to suspend Rodriguez under its collective bargaining agreement instead of its drug rules, which would lead to the suspension starting before the appeal.

Milwaukee outfielder Ryan Braun was the first player to reach an agreement with MLB. The 2011 NL MVP accepted a season-ending 65-game suspension last week. Braun tested positive for elevated testosterone in October 2011 but a 50-game suspension was overturned the following February by an arbitrator who ruled Braun's urine sample was handled improperly.

Rodriguez faces the harshest penalty. The Yankees expected him to be accused of recruiting other athletes for the clinic, attempting to obstruct MLB's investigation, and not being truthful with MLB in the past when he discussed his relationship with Dr. Anthony Galea, who pleaded guilty two years ago to a federal charge of bringing unapproved drugs into the United States from Canada.

"A-Rod was my teammate in New York. I'm glad he was my teammate," retired pitcher Roger Clemens said Tuesday in Boston, where he was at Fenway Park to mark the 25th anniversary of manager Joe Morgan's team that won the 1988 AL East title.

"I did things to make him feel comfortable. I did that for all of my teammates," Clemens said. "I think I was a pretty solid teammate."

The seven-time Cy Young Award winner was acquitted last year of federal charges he lied to Congress when he said he didn't take steroids or human growth hormone.

Clemens would not give his thoughts on MLB's Biogenesis investigation.

"I've got my own feelings on particular people in MLB, you know, how they approached my situation," he said. "I don't know about it, and I don't care about it, to tell you the truth."

[tim_m]

On another note the Red Sox have acquired Jake Peavy in 3 team deal.

[GeorgeSteele]

You think Bud will give A-Rod a fair shake?

[tim_m]

Not a chance lol.

[tim_m]

Major development being reported; Rodriguez and MLB were unable to work out an agreement on suspension so Selig is gonna hand down a lifetime banishment. Goodbye A-Rod! I'm sure i speak for many even Yankee fans, let the door hit you on your way out.

[Falcon]

The Yankees are getting ready to send Selig the biggest gift basket ever assembled.

[tim_m]

The Yankees are getting ready to send Selig the biggest gift basket ever assembled.

You ain't kidding. I know using the CBA to ban him is opening up probably a lengthy legal battle but its probably gonna be long enough to end his career. I just worry if going this route will force a reopening of the CBA. That all depends on how willing the union is to back A-Rod and i'm thinking by now not very.

[tim_m]

Source: A-Rod reps talk settlement
Updated: July 31, 2013, 8:51 PM ET
By T.J. Quinn | ESPN.com

    4
    2
    1
    Email
    Print

After saying Alex Rodriguez would fight any discipline from Major League Baseball, a source familiar with discussions told ESPN's "Outside the Lines" Wednesday that A-Rod's representatives were negotiating a possible settlement that could result in a lengthy suspension.

The source said MLB officials have told Rodriguez's attorneys that they are willing to ban him for life, although sources said it was not clear that commissioner Bud Selig was prepared to make such a move, knowing Rodriguez would fight it in arbitration.

Rodriguez
Rodriguez

Several sources have told "Outside the Lines" that some MLB officials have pushed for a lifetime ban, saying they would rather force Rodriguez to defend himself than agree to a suspension that allows him play while he appeals. Rodriguez was presented with MLB's evidence in recent days, detailing what sources said were "volumes" of documents establishing a connection between Rodriguez and Biogenesis clinic founder Tony Bosch.

Sources said MLB was also given evidence supporting accusations that Rodriguez attempted to coerce at least one witness in MLB's investigation. That accusation is the basis of MLB's argument that Rodriguez may be punished for his conduct, in addition to multiple violations of the game's joint drug agreement.

MLB is apparently hoping that Rodriguez will accept a lengthy suspension that could keep him off the field through at least next season, without the time and trouble of an arbitration hearing.

Rodriguez's attorney, David Cornwell, has consistently said they will fight any suspension. MLB is expected to issue suspensions for Rodriguez and other players connected to Bosch within the next few days.

Most players are expected to accept 50-game suspensions -- the standard punishment for a first PED violation -- without appeal.


At this point i don't want him to take a deal. I say throw the fucking book at him.

[pilferk]

The Yankees are getting ready to send Selig the biggest gift basket ever assembled.

You ain't kidding. I know using the CBA to ban him is opening up probably a lengthy legal battle but its probably gonna be long enough to end his career. I just worry if going this route will force a reopening of the CBA. That all depends on how willing the union is to back A-Rod and i'm thinking by now not very.

MLB would be forcing the union to go hard for arod...because they are not going to want this precedent set for everyone else. Which is far different than just having to deal with arods lawyers.

IMHO, it's risky for MLB. And I think the likelihood of that ban holding up through the courts and arbitration are slim. Not nil. But slim.

And if the suspension gets scaled way down ( under 100 games) or overturned entirely, MLB is going to look terrible, and arod s going to "win", which is just going to piss off Selig even more, and embarrass MLB even more.

It would be far less risky for MLB to level a 220 gamer, and try to keep the union out of it ( or less interested in it), than in trying to do what they are doing.  Both probably end arods productive playing days...though not the yanks contractual obligations.

Again, the side show after the fact is going to be very interesting, and is going to do exactly what MLB doesn't want it to do...take focus off the field, and off the games. There is a good chance we are still  talking about this come spring training.

One other thing...IMHO, this won't drag on for years. More like months....maybe the rest of this season and the off season. I hate to beat a dead horse, but I think a time table similar to the nfl bounty gate resolution....at most...one way or the other.