Appetite For Democracy Blu-ray/DVD - live in Las Vegas Nov 21 2012

[pilferk]

Doesn't that apply to live performances as well? The people who wrote the songs you perform live get paid.

Interestingly, it doesn't apply (in the US) to live performances.  That is, for whatever reason, considered fair use. You can, essentially, cover any artist, any song, during a concert and not have to pay royalties for it (and, since you're not publishing it, no publishing rights either)..

Are you sure?

http://www.ascap.com/licensing/licensingfaq.aspx#general



/jarmo

Positive.

The arena (or bar, or club) carries an ASCAP license..it's an annual fee.  They aren't required to actually document how many, or which, covers songs are played, though. It's a blanket license.

The artists don't have to pay anything.

Edit: In reading the rest of the thread, I guess it might be a matter of semantics.

Technically, nobody is paying royalties to a specific song creator.  Venues pay a flat license fee, based on size and max occupancy, to ASCAP as sort of a blanket permission for everything ever created by their membership. It allows the venue to play recorded music, allows any artists using the venue to cover pretty much any song under the ASCAP umbrella (which is pretty much every song with an active copyright), etc.  It's basically a license to play all recorded/live music in a public forum (sort of like movie theater owners pay so they can actually show movies).

That pot (all the license fees collected annually) IS distributed to the songs creators.  So I guess it functions sort of like a royalty system...but in practice it's not considered the same.

On the flip side, yes, the artists who created the songs get paid.  Sort of indirectly (and not by the performers), and not specifically for their material, but they do.

[pilferk]

Slash released a dvd with mostly GNR songs, so I don't that is the reason
After the failed London release you'd think the band would know what they're doing.
Also Axl sounds great on the trailer

Which means Slash got "most" of the old membership to sign on the dotted line.  At least for the Appetite songs.

He has to....that's the law.

I can't remember..did that release predate the lawsuit resolution, which laid out pretty strict rules for how it was decided the old material could be used?

They don't have to get anyone to sign but they do have to pay royalties

Songwriting? No.

Publishing? Yes.

They are different.

Which means if it's used in specific ways (advertising, movies, tv shows, etc)...he does.

For a concert video, I'm not sure which law would hold sway.  I suspect publishing would take precedent.

[slash&axl]

Slash released a dvd with mostly GNR songs, so I don't that is the reason
After the failed London release you'd think the band would know what they're doing.
Also Axl sounds great on the trailer

Which means Slash got "most" of the old membership to sign on the dotted line.  At least for the Appetite songs.

He has to....that's the law.

I can't remember..did that release predate the lawsuit resolution, which laid out pretty strict rules for how it was decided the old material could be used?

They don't have to get anyone to sign but they do have to pay royalties

Songwriting? No.

Publishing? Yes.

They are different.

Which means if it's used in specific ways (advertising, movies, tv shows, etc)...he does.

For a concert video, I'm not sure which law would hold sway.  I suspect publishing would take precedent.

From who?

Slash has released many dvd's and i'm pretty sure Axl is not signing off on them

/jarmo

[jarmo]

I suggest you edit your post. Signing posts by someone else isn't a good idea....






/jarmo

[pilferk]

From who?

Slash has released many dvd's and i'm pretty sure Axl is not signing off on them

"Pretty sure" based on what?

I can only tell you what the law is, in regards to publishing material in any form, and what was reported regarding the settlement (and the settlement documents that were filed) of the mutual lawsuit back a few years ago concerning publishing rights and fees.  The Appetite material's publishing rights are held by the partnership of Guns n Roses.  The membership of that partnership are Axl, Slash, Duff, Izzy, and Stephen.  The partnership has to approve all publishing uses together.  So stipulated the courts.  And that includes use BY any of the membership parties.  No one single member owns the songwriting or publishing rights on ANY of the Appetite material.

Which members vote which way on which projects...or even how that process works internally to the partnership....you'd have to ask them.  I'm also not sure the DVD's containing GnR material were published/released after the settlement.

I can clearly see reasons why Axl would sign off on allowing other parties of the membership to use the material....not least of which is because, in similar circumstances (like, for instance, a certain Las Vegas DVD), he would like the same considerations made for him when HE wants to publish material.

Not to mention....saying yes means bringing in royalties to the partnership...which he then gets a share of.  Personal is personal...but business is business.  And it's not like letting the other membership use the material portrays it in a bad light, devalues it, or presents in in some manner other than it's original creator(s) intended.

I can also tell you there was some hang up, back when HBO was broadcasting the Rock and Roll HOF induction, over approval of the old material in the subsequent broadcasts (a couple of the re-broadcasts were pulled, right after the event, and the reason HBO gave for pulling them was the publishing rights on the GnR material).

[adydas78]

Royalties, publishig rights, copyright laws, bla, bla, bla. Slash's "Made in Stoke" was recorded in July, released 5 months later in November 2011. Lots of bands, artists release concert DVD's within one year. All I think we're dealing here is poor management of an otherwise great band. I know entertainment industry and I know what is possible and what is not. There is no reason this should take that much time.

[jarmo]

Royalties, publishig rights, copyright laws, bla, bla, bla. Slash's "Made in Stoke" was recorded in July, released 5 months later in November 2011. Lots of bands, artists release concert DVD's within one year. All I think we're dealing here is poor management of an otherwise great band. I know entertainment industry and I know what is possible and what is not. There is no reason this should take that much time.

So what are the details you know about GN'R and their part in the entertainment industry?

It's always amazing reading people say "I know the industry and....". Yes, that might be true, but does that mean you know anything about GN'R? Not really.
Just because you know how to cook a hamburger doesn't mean you know all the facts about how McDonald's operates their business... 




/jarmo

[J.Hanover]

Jarmo, brother you crack me up! Don't know how you go through all these post and read Bullshit after Bullshit about people thinking they know this or that and how GnR do this and what's Axl says and how he supposedly does his business with whoever or whatever. It's like people think the know the industry and how it runs. There must be a lot of A&R lawyers on here, how you don't explose, I give you all the props in the world and enjoy your vacation/time off from being on the road. Did I see pics of you in Asia or China, can't remember but I remember you being somewhere cool. Stay cool andrremember where you came from and don't get caught in the tit for tat BS, just send it to Beta and let her bite someone's head off. Don't want to get in her path but she's the best if she's got your back. Much love brother!

[reayj2003]

I don't understand, how is Jarmo constantly undermining the fans opinion something to encourage. What is wrong with being disappointed with the late release/lack of info on this DVD?

The thing was advertised from the night it was recorded and WE the fans were told it was coming THIS summer...Excuse me but I'm disappointed. If I can't vent that on a forum with like minded people- What is the point of the bloody forum??

People probably know the business more than you credit as to a lot of people this is their passion. Jarmo I've met you, and you seemed like a lovely guy. But can you get back to coming at things from the point of few of 'a fan'!

[banachkevin]

I think jarmo has a better understanding as to what goes on in th GNR camp than any of us! If the DVD comes out great if not oh well. As long as GNR keep touring and putting on great shows that's fine by me. I think jarmo is doing a great job here, I've been coming here for years to get my news on GNR and any time there has been rumours jarmo has been here to confirm or deny them. Keep up the good work I for one appreciate what you do for us fans and what you do for the GNR camp

[el_loko]

Sure, GNR is only band in the world which didn't work like any other band... There's always something against their big plans, record company, producers, Skwerl, Buckethead, Finck, or other aliens.

Why GNR are so special? Or show me other band which let their fans down so many times. ONE OTHER BAND.

There's not problem for GNR outside GNR. Only problem for GNR is GNR.


(And don't try told me that I'm not real fan. I've been on every single show in my country or neighbour country since 2006. And since 2002 love GNR and especially new band.)

[jarmo]

Why GNR are so special? Or show me other band which let their fans down so many times. ONE OTHER BAND.

How is GN'R letting you down?





/jarmo

[imsorry]

How could anyone without hypocrisy not been let down by this band? 

[el_loko]

1. "We'll be here next summer with a whole bunch of new songs." - Axl Rose, Rock in Rio III, 2001.
2. ChD 2006: "It is this year, it is this year" ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__KI5mRAhYg )
3. 6 march 2007 - tentative date of ChD (http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/news/shownews.php?newsid=1744) (yes, tentative but 20 month delay...)
4. Better video - Axl: "Soon is the word as in a week or so."
5. This DVD - this summer.

It's only some of examples...

[jarmo]

How could anyone without hypocrisy not been let down by this band? 

Maybe you don't get let down by expecting things that are based on your own personal wishlist....

1. "We'll be here next summer with a whole bunch of new songs." - Axl Rose, Rock in Rio III, 2001.
2. ChD 2006: "It is this year, it is this year" ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__KI5mRAhYg )
3. 6 march 2007 - tentative date of ChD (http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/news/shownews.php?newsid=1744) (yes, tentative but 20 month delay...)
4. Better video - Axl: "Soon is the word as in a week or so."
5. This DVD - this summer.

It's only some of examples...

So these are your biggest let downs? Five in the last 12 years.
And no other band has ever done that?

Plans changing isn't anything new, or specific for GN'R.
Also, tentative is just that. Tentative.

If you think GN'R is the only one who's plans have changed, I got a bridge to sell you.

Did you get that new Dr. Dre album yet? Oh no, it's not out yet.... How is that possible? Only GN'R lets their fans down by changing plans.


Some artists rarely tour, some release albums more often than others. Some don't do a lot of interviews, some tweet every hour they're awake etc. etc. People are different! It's ok.
As far as I know, there's no rule book on how you need to be in order to be a musician.

Plenty of my favorite artists have taken breaks, stopped making videos, done less interviews, changed their sound, changed line ups, broke up bands and so on. It happens, it's fine. If they're happier because of their choices, it's all good in my book.



Do you ever watch the weather forecast lately? I'm sure that must be a letdown! They're wrong so often!   




/jarmo

[imsorry]

Im a cheap whore my wishlist is very simple ... 

[The Wight Gunner]

How could anyone without hypocrisy not been let down by this band? 

Maybe you don't get let down by expecting things that are based on your own personal wishlist....

1. "We'll be here next summer with a whole bunch of new songs." - Axl Rose, Rock in Rio III, 2001.
2. ChD 2006: "It is this year, it is this year" ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__KI5mRAhYg )
3. 6 march 2007 - tentative date of ChD (http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/news/shownews.php?newsid=1744) (yes, tentative but 20 month delay...)
4. Better video - Axl: "Soon is the word as in a week or so."
5. This DVD - this summer.

It's only some of examples...

So these are your biggest let downs? Five in the last 12 years.
And no other band has ever done that?

Plans changing isn't anything new, or specific for GN'R.
Also, tentative is just that. Tentative.

If you think GN'R is the only one who's plans have changed, I got a bridge to sell you.

Did you get that new Dr. Dre album yet? Oh no, it's not out yet.... How is that possible? Only GN'R lets their fans down by changing plans.



Do you ever watch the weather forecast lately? I'm sure that must be a letdown! They're wrong so often!   




/jarmo

I think the phrase he is looking for is: "It's not our fault" which does beg the question, "what has"?  been their fault...And you can't honestly say that they (Gn'R/Axl/Management et al) are the unfortunate blameless victims of the most incredible sequence of non-events, even if some of them aren't in their full control. 

Honestly, and shoot me down for saying this if you want, I believe Axl has lost his mojo, his drive to deliver anything that doesn't involve letting others make "good enough" decisions that means "everybody wins" Instead we get half baked plans, that have the potential to really get the Nu-GnR in the music market place, giving both Axl's camp and the fans something to build upon, but fail to deliver.... Take the meet and greet, why couldn't Axl do the show up with the others now and then? It appears as if the others members are doing this to make a bit of cash for themselves... Don't get me wrong its great that they do this, but I'd think all of the other members would love it if the main man showed up now and again

[jarmo]

Let's take this concert film for example.

The band only said they were gonna film it. That's it.
As far as I remember, I never saw the band announce any release dates or anything for it. Everything was done by the company who put it together.

Now, after a while they said the record company had to decide on a release date. As usual, GN'R is, as far as I know, signed to a record company. This company has said nothing in regards to the release. Neither has GN'R.

Yet it's GN'R's fault?
How do we know that for a fact?


I don't know what gave some of you the idea that the record company seems like huge GN'R fans? I'm not under that impression, considering the handling of the release of GN'R's last album.... I don't know if anything has changed since. I do know that record sales are going downhill, so the optimism in that industry doesn't seem like it has increased.



/jarmo

[volcano62]

Let's take this concert film for example.

The band only said they were gonna film it. That's it.
As far as I remember, I never saw the band announce any release dates or anything for it. Everything was done by the company who put it together.

Now, after a while they said the record company had to decide on a release date. As usual, GN'R is, as far as I know, signed to a record company. This company has said nothing in regards to the release. Neither has GN'R.

Yet it's GN'R's fault?
How do we know that for a fact?


I don't know what gave some of you the idea that the record company seems like huge GN'R fans? I'm not under that impression, considering the handling of the release of GN'R's last album.... I don't know if anything has changed since. I do know that record sales are going downhill, so the optimism in that industry doesn't seem like it has increased.



/jarmo

Jarmo I love you dude but for fuck sakes it's time for CD II and the 3D bluray.

What's the point if neither of these things are happening?

It doesn't matter how you or anyone tries to spin it. No excuse is good enough anymore. If it's the label then "management" should try and legally get away from this said label and release their material other ways.

Everyone in the GNR community knows I support GNR and Axl 100% and I'm the last one to complain about ANYTHING but dude it's time. The years are passing by and are getting wasted and it's becoming a crying shame.

[jarmo]

There's multiple examples in history of artists trying to get away from contracts. It's not as easy as "ok, bye!".

I don't know any inside info on the recording contracts or what goes on at the record company. All I know is what I saw happen in 2008.




/jarmo