Appetite For Democracy Blu-ray/DVD - live in Las Vegas Nov 21 2012

[Chuzeville]

I go back and listen to old bootlegs, and it sounds to me like Axl is putting his chords through hell.

And he couldn't sing for shit - it sounded like shit most of the times. It was all about power, no control whatsoever.

Isn't it funny how something like that can go basically unnoticed, whereas even the slightest criticism of one recent performance gets shot down, because--wait for it--you weren't there.

So now I'm left wondering if Bruno was actually at all GnR shows in the late 80s and early 90s.

The dismissal of GnR classic years that goes on on this forum doesn't cease to amaze.

[jarmo]

The dismissal of GnR classic years that goes on on this forum doesn't cease to amaze.

What fucking dismissal?

What never ceases to amaze me is that those who still "live in the past", are in many cases the ones posting shit about the present. They're unhappy about this and that, and fail to remember one single thing that's been true since day one: GN'R always does things their way.

So if the setlist sucked at a show you didn't attend in 2012, chances are some setlist sucked in 1991 too. But nobody "remembers" it!

If Axl wasn't doing enough interviews in 2012, he didn't do a whole lot in 1991 either.

And so on.
I think you guys get the point.




Nobody's dismissing anything, it only appears that way to those who get offended when it's pointed out that GN'R has always been GN'R. That has not changed.
They get all upset when you point out to them that many things have not changed regarding the way GN'R operates. Because, as we all know, things were perfect back in the day... Right?

I wouldn't be completely surprised if a bunch of the people trying to "rewrite" history weren't even born or fans back then. So how can you understand how it was being a music fan back then, when you can't imagine a life without the Internet, free mp3s, Youtube, Fscebook, Twitter and so on?


And this is in no way me saying some fans are better than others. Fuck that.
If you're a real supportive fan of GN'R in 2012, you're a fan. That's it.


You gotta look at the bigger picture. You can always find shit to whine about. Even about your "golden years". If that's your thing.




/jarmo

[Evita]

Yeah! I was fucking there and loved every second. I have no idea why people who were not there are complaining about Axl's voice, it was excellent throughout the entire show. Superb show from start to finish.

Amen!

[oreilly1234]

did they play SAILING at this show or any covers?

[Evita]

They played Don't let it bring you down and The Seeker

[JeffK]

Their version of the seeker is AWESOME!!

[JeffK]

Also...the people who are complaining about his voice have no idea what they're talking about. I was there for 2 shows and his voice was incredible for the entire 6 hours that I watched him perform! Walking out of the shows there were 3 things that I overheard people talking about over and over...one was how great this whole band is...the second was how awesome DJ is to watch live...and the third was how amazing Axl still is. Those were the three main topics of conversation by the people leaving the joint after the shows. So unless you've seen them live stop complaining because you don't know what you're talking about. It's funny that Axl and DJ take the most criticism around different boards by people who don't go to the shows, but they're the 2 guys that impress everyone at the shows the most!

[estebanf]

This is really more simple:

For example: I attended the Rock In Rio 2011 show, and once the show was over I thought ''wow, what an amazing show. Axl's voice was not the best but it was way more than decent for being the first show in several months''. Then I came home, saw the performance in one of these ultra HD recordings, and his voice was TERRIBLE. Almost catastrophic to be honest. Did I care? Not at all, of course. Because I payed for a show, and the show was great.

But if you're trying to sell a RECORDED show, you need to work on what people will hear FROM THE RECORD. It doesnt matter how great the voice could have sounded in the live/actual performance, because the final product you're selling is a DVD, not a ticket to a show! And I really think nobody can be jumping of joy regarding how Axl's voice sounds on that Paradise City clip. He can sound WAY better. In fact, he sounds better the biggest part of the time. Do we really need to be THIS narrow minded and obsequent to qualify as ''real'' GNR fans? I have never been a hater, in fact, I ''fought'' them all my life in almost every single message board of the internet.

Do you really think Axl's voice at that PC performance is the one you were expecting? Is that the type of voice you fell in love with in the first place? No! I love Axl as much as my mother, but his voice in that particular video SUCKS. The difference between me and a hater is I want Axl to sing better, because I want the best for GNR, because I fucking love GNR. I want Axl to sing like he did in the 2006 european tour or most 2010.

I dont like to say this at all, trust me, but for once in your life do the excercise of reading comments of that PC video OUTSIDE this HTGTH site. This is like a parallel world with a parallel reality. Im not talking about some cheap rock sites (non-gnr related): im talking about other GNR sites, full of GNR fans who want GNR to succed, like me.

Yeah, I can imagine your ''then go to any of other sites and leave us alone'' reply... im not a hater man. Im just not being an hypocrite.

[estebanf]

Also...the people who are complaining about his voice have no idea what they're talking about. I was there for 2 shows and his voice was incredible for the entire 6 hours

I was there for 10 shows and his voice was incredible for the entire 30 hours.

But we're now talking about a RECORDED show. And that RECORDED voice doesn't sound like the voice you and I heard live.

[jarmo]

Come on esteban.

You should know by now that GN'R can't win with fans like the ones you mentioned.

If something sounds bad to them, they're the first ones to post their opinions as facts. If something sounds good, they're the first ones posting about how the recording is altered with, Axl is lip synching or whatever.

You know this right?



You shouldn't pay attention to that kind of people. Seriously. What kind of a person goes to a site dedicated to a band they don't like in 2013?

For example: "I liked this band for a moment in 2001-2002, and now more than ten years later, I'm going to fan sites telling everybody how much they suck". What kind of an existence is that? To me it seems pointless... But that's just me.

It seems to bother them that Axl won't do what they think he should do. Whatever that is.


On the subject of these negative people. Why do (some) people pay so much attention to what they think? Have you met them? Do you know them personally? What makes their opinions so valuable?
I don't get it. For all we know, some of them could be people you wouldn't listen to if you actually met them in real life.. But on the Internet you can be somebody. 





/jarmo

[estebanf]

Come on esteban.

You should know by now that GN'R can't win with fans like the ones you mentioned.

If something sounds bad to them, they're the first ones to post their opinions as facts. If something sounds good, they're the first ones posting about how the recording is altered with, Axl is lip synching or whatever.

You know this right?



You shouldn't pay attention to that kind of people. Seriously. What kind of a person goes to a site dedicated to a band they don't like in 2013?

For example: "I liked this band for a moment in 2001-2002, and now more than ten years later, I'm going to fan sites telling everybody how much they suck". What kind of an existence is that? To me it seems pointless... But that's just me.

It seems to bother them that Axl won't do what they think he should do. Whatever that is.


On the subject of these negative people. Why do (some) people pay so much attention to what they think? Have you met them? Do you know them personally? What makes their opinions so valuable?
I don't get it. For all we know, some of them could be people you wouldn't listen to if you actually met them in real life.. But on the Internet you can be somebody. 





/jarmo

I agree 100% with you. And it's good to know you dont consider me one of them after all these years.

Haters will hate everything and they will never be pleased, because they dont want GNR to succed. They want GNR to fail so they can prove GNR ''without the old members'' is not the same or a fraud or whatever point they want to make. I can remember some fans whining about the setlist in Tokyo 2009, where GNR did their longest show ever playing 13 out of 14 songs from CD. They dissapear in the ''good moments'', but then they emerge from the shadows in the ''bad ones'' like the day after RIR2011. Im not one of them.

I like EVERYTHING I saw from that clip, and Im very happy to have a new DVD in the future. I just dont like Axl's voice in that particular song (i haven't seen the rest of the songs, and I cant fucking wait to do it, because I really trust Axl's voice will be much better and stronger in them). Trust me I will be the first person to buy a ticket for the cinema and to buy two copies of the DVD as soon as it is available 

[Gilbyfan]

So does anyone know if this is coming out on cd too?

[slash&axl]

Will this be a 3D dvd where you need the tv and the right player?

I know the Scorpions released a 3D concert where you didn't need these

[R.A.W.]

This is really more simple:

For example: I attended the Rock In Rio 2011 show, and once the show was over I thought ''wow, what an amazing show. Axl's voice was not the best but it was way more than decent for being the first show in several months''. Then I came home, saw the performance in one of these ultra HD recordings, and his voice was TERRIBLE. Almost catastrophic to be honest. Did I care? Not at all, of course. Because I payed for a show, and the show was great.

But if you're trying to sell a RECORDED show, you need to work on what people will hear FROM THE RECORD. It doesnt matter how great the voice could have sounded in the live/actual performance, because the final product you're selling is a DVD, not a ticket to a show! And I really think nobody can be jumping of joy regarding how Axl's voice sounds on that Paradise City clip. He can sound WAY better. In fact, he sounds better the biggest part of the time. Do we really need to be THIS narrow minded and obsequent to qualify as ''real'' GNR fans? I have never been a hater, in fact, I ''fought'' them all my life in almost every single message board of the internet.

Do you really think Axl's voice at that PC performance is the one you were expecting? Is that the type of voice you fell in love with in the first place? No! I love Axl as much as my mother, but his voice in that particular video SUCKS. The difference between me and a hater is I want Axl to sing better, because I want the best for GNR, because I fucking love GNR. I want Axl to sing like he did in the 2006 european tour or most 2010.

I dont like to say this at all, trust me, but for once in your life do the excercise of reading comments of that PC video OUTSIDE this HTGTH site. This is like a parallel world with a parallel reality. Im not talking about some cheap rock sites (non-gnr related): im talking about other GNR sites, full of GNR fans who want GNR to succed, like me.

Yeah, I can imagine your ''then go to any of other sites and leave us alone'' reply... im not a hater man. Im just not being an hypocrite.


100% on the money man, this is straight up how it is. I love Axl as much as anyone else on this board but I'm not about to blow wind up his ass when in fact the vocal performance needs some criticism.

At the show or not at the show, a recording does not lie or completely change how someone sounds.  

I think we hear the true Axl Rose demon voice when he is singing with his heart on his sleeve and delivering a performance he truly want's to be remembered by. Not just going through the motions
like he seems to be doing on the PC clip.

I am the first to show my wife and friends new stuff that Guns do when I feel like it kicks ass, but on this clip I kinda turned the volume down and shook my head a bit.

That said, I have still bought 3 tickets at $160 bucks each for the Melbourne gig and I am taking 2 friends with me that have not seen the band since 1993. I just hope Axl brings some anger to Melbourne
and rips the skin off our faces with a furious delivery we all know he can and sends me and my mates home with smiles from ear to ear.

I will probably cop shit from the Axl wind blowers on this board about what I have just said, bottom line is, its the truth. Pull your head out of the sand people.             Except you esteban

[ITARocker]

I agree with estebanf. 2012 axl's performances are not the best, so why put out something that simply doesn't sound that good?  There are so many great performances from 2010 (even of PC and after 2/3 hour show), I really just don't get it.  Maybe ashba isn't at his top in there, but who cares....

And stop that shit about attending live performances instead of listening to music on yt...The music you hear from a record is the only thing that counts, because during a live performance you are distracted by so many others things: lights, boobs, jumping, screaming, beer, tryin' not to die, singing along with etc... Even britney spears could sound good  if you attend a live performance of hers...but go and check her out on yt and you'll notice that she sucks balls.

[Ali]

I agree with estebanf. 2012 axl's performances are not the best, so why put out something that simply doesn't sound that good?  There are so many great performances from 2010 (even of PC and after 2/3 hour show), I really just don't get it.  Maybe ashba isn't at his top in there, but who cares....

And stop that shit about attending live performances instead of listening to music on yt...The music you hear from a record is the only thing that counts, because during a live performance you are distracted by so many others things: lights, boobs, jumping, screaming, beer, tryin' not to die, singing along with etc... Even britney spears could sound good  if you attend a live performance of hers...but go and check her out on yt and you'll notice that she sucks balls.

That's just completely asinine. If the audio recording of a show was the only thing that counted, there would be no point in going to a show. What an absurd argument.

Ali

[ITARocker]

I agree with estebanf. 2012 axl's performances are not the best, so why put out something that simply doesn't sound that good?  There are so many great performances from 2010 (even of PC and after 2/3 hour show), I really just don't get it.  Maybe ashba isn't at his top in there, but who cares....

And stop that shit about attending live performances instead of listening to music on yt...The music you hear from a record is the only thing that counts, because during a live performance you are distracted by so many others things: lights, boobs, jumping, screaming, beer, tryin' not to die, singing along with etc... Even britney spears could sound good  if you attend a live performance of hers...but go and check her out on yt and you'll notice that she sucks balls.

That's just completely asinine. If the audio recording of a show was the only thing that counted, there would be no point in going to a show. What an absurd argument.

Ali

Absurd it's you not trying to understand what did I say...

[Ali]

This is really more simple:

For example: I attended the Rock In Rio 2011 show, and once the show was over I thought ''wow, what an amazing show. Axl's voice was not the best but it was way more than decent for being the first show in several months''. Then I came home, saw the performance in one of these ultra HD recordings, and his voice was TERRIBLE. Almost catastrophic to be honest. Did I care? Not at all, of course. Because I payed for a show, and the show was great.

But if you're trying to sell a RECORDED show, you need to work on what people will hear FROM THE RECORD. It doesnt matter how great the voice could have sounded in the live/actual performance, because the final product you're selling is a DVD, not a ticket to a show! And I really think nobody can be jumping of joy regarding how Axl's voice sounds on that Paradise City clip. He can sound WAY better. In fact, he sounds better the biggest part of the time. Do we really need to be THIS narrow minded and obsequent to qualify as ''real'' GNR fans? I have never been a hater, in fact, I ''fought'' them all my life in almost every single message board of the internet.

Do you really think Axl's voice at that PC performance is the one you were expecting? Is that the type of voice you fell in love with in the first place? No! I love Axl as much as my mother, but his voice in that particular video SUCKS. The difference between me and a hater is I want Axl to sing better, because I want the best for GNR, because I fucking love GNR. I want Axl to sing like he did in the 2006 european tour or most 2010.

I dont like to say this at all, trust me, but for once in your life do the excercise of reading comments of that PC video OUTSIDE this HTGTH site. This is like a parallel world with a parallel reality. Im not talking about some cheap rock sites (non-gnr related): im talking about other GNR sites, full of GNR fans who want GNR to succed, like me.

Yeah, I can imagine your ''then go to any of other sites and leave us alone'' reply... im not a hater man. Im just not being an hypocrite.


100% on the money man, this is straight up how it is. I love Axl as much as anyone else on this board but I'm not about to blow wind up his ass when in fact the vocal performance needs some criticism.

At the show or not at the show, a recording does not lie or completely change how someone sounds.  

I think we hear the true Axl Rose demon voice when he is singing with his heart on his sleeve and delivering a performance he truly want's to be remembered by. Not just going through the motions
like he seems to be doing on the PC clip.

I am the first to show my wife and friends new stuff that Guns do when I feel like it kicks ass, but on this clip I kinda turned the volume down and shook my head a bit.

That said, I have still bought 3 tickets at $160 bucks each for the Melbourne gig and I am taking 2 friends with me that have not seen the band since 1993. I just hope Axl brings some anger to Melbourne
and rips the skin off our faces with a furious delivery we all know he can and sends me and my mates home with smiles from ear to ear.

I will probably cop shit from the Axl wind blowers on this board about what I have just said, bottom line is, its the truth. Pull your head out of the sand people.             Except you esteban

A few observations I can make here are that you seem to be of those who prefer Axl's more raspy vocal tone and think that makes for a "good" vocal performance. That's all fine and well, but like Esteban, you seem to not realize that is your opinion, not a fact, or "the truth". And, it doesn't matter how forcefully or directly, or how many times, you state something. It's still an opinion.

Ali

[jarmo]

And stop that shit about attending live performances instead of listening to music on yt...The music you hear from a record is the only thing that counts, because during a live performance you are distracted by so many others things: lights, boobs, jumping, screaming, beer, tryin' not to die, singing along with etc... Even britney spears could sound good  if you attend a live performance of hers...but go and check her out on yt and you'll notice that she sucks balls.

The only thing that counts?
Please.

How many times do we have to explain to you the simple fact that a live concert is mixed right there and then, it sounds like it should sound.

Why do you think live acts have sound engineers? To mix the sound so it sounds good on Youtube clips?

A concert recording is a capture of the show, or shows. Everybody wants to recreate that experience you get at the show(s). You record the show, then you mix it and release it for people to watch on TV. And you claim that's the only thing that matters? A band's capabilities as a live act can be judged on Youtube nowadays?



We get it, you guys don't want this DVD. You don't have to buy it. Simple as that.

You saw the Youtube clip, didn't like it. Now move on. Find something else to comment on.




/jarmo

[Ali]

I agree with estebanf. 2012 axl's performances are not the best, so why put out something that simply doesn't sound that good?  There are so many great performances from 2010 (even of PC and after 2/3 hour show), I really just don't get it.  Maybe ashba isn't at his top in there, but who cares....

And stop that shit about attending live performances instead of listening to music on yt...The music you hear from a record is the only thing that counts, because during a live performance you are distracted by so many others things: lights, boobs, jumping, screaming, beer, tryin' not to die, singing along with etc... Even britney spears could sound good  if you attend a live performance of hers...but go and check her out on yt and you'll notice that she sucks balls.

That's just completely asinine. If the audio recording of a show was the only thing that counted, there would be no point in going to a show. What an absurd argument.

Ali

Absurd it's you not trying to understand what did I say...

Yeah, that didn't make any sense.

You said, ".The music you hear from a record is the only thing that counts". So, you're basically invalidating the opinion of the audio portin of a show from anyone who attends a show in person. If what you're suggesting is true, then there is no point in any publication sending a reviewer to the love show. They should just wait, hope some YouTube recordings of a show pop up and review those for audio content and performance.

Ali