NBA Season 2012/2013

[faldor]

Well the Pacers manage to hold on for dear life against the Knicks in game 6. You gotta give the Knicks credit though they kept coming and didn't give up and were very resilient. They will be better for this. Good learning experience. I wanna know who paid off the refs though. Holy phantom calls on the Knicks and one that sealed it for the Pacers. Shumpert didn't touch the guy! At the time it was 99-103. We stop them there and get a quick 2 or 3 who knows how it ends. Refs aren't supposed to determine who wins the game. Just terrible. There was another one on Anthony earlier in the game that i saw.

NBA refs do sometimes determine the outcome of games in a negative way, that's been proven.  They're a shady bunch, that's been proven.  I think this is more of a case of the Pacers getting the home town calls though, not a case of wanting to keep the Knicks out of the conference finals.  I mean, the NBA would clearly prefer a NY/Miami conference finals.  Much more appeal than Indiana/Miami.  I just think in the end, the better team advanced.  The Pacers were much more well rounded.  They have a developing star in Paul George, an athletic supporting cast, a legit big man in Hibbert, some quality ball handlers, a team that can D it up.  They're solid. 

I heard the commentators talking about the disparity in foul shots in the series, heavily favoring the Pacers.  Now I didn't watch the series all that closely but I can imagine that has more to do with the 2 teams vastly different styles of play than a conspiracy from the refs.  The Knicks are a 3 point shooting team, typically those teams don't get to the line as often.  The Pacers attack the rim more often, thus more free throw attempts.  Unless there was more to it than that.

[tim_m]

Well the Pacers manage to hold on for dear life against the Knicks in game 6. You gotta give the Knicks credit though they kept coming and didn't give up and were very resilient. They will be better for this. Good learning experience. I wanna know who paid off the refs though. Holy phantom calls on the Knicks and one that sealed it for the Pacers. Shumpert didn't touch the guy! At the time it was 99-103. We stop them there and get a quick 2 or 3 who knows how it ends. Refs aren't supposed to determine who wins the game. Just terrible. There was another one on Anthony earlier in the game that i saw.

NBA refs do sometimes determine the outcome of games in a negative way, that's been proven.  They're a shady bunch, that's been proven.  I think this is more of a case of the Pacers getting the home town calls though, not a case of wanting to keep the Knicks out of the conference finals.  I mean, the NBA would clearly prefer a NY/Miami conference finals.  Much more appeal than Indiana/Miami.  I just think in the end, the better team advanced.  The Pacers were much more well rounded.  They have a developing star in Paul George, an athletic supporting cast, a legit big man in Hibbert, some quality ball handlers, a team that can D it up.  They're solid. 

I heard the commentators talking about the disparity in foul shots in the series, heavily favoring the Pacers.  Now I didn't watch the series all that closely but I can imagine that has more to do with the 2 teams vastly different styles of play than a conspiracy from the refs.  The Knicks are a 3 point shooting team, typically those teams don't get to the line as often.  The Pacers attack the rim more often, thus more free throw attempts.  Unless there was more to it than that.

Overall the Knicks poor shooting in the 4th did do them in but that bad call sealed it is my point. At the time i think there was 55 seconds remaining with the Knicks down 4. If the correct no call was made there maybe we get a defensive stop get the ball back and hit a 2 or 3. That would cut the lead to 2 or 1. Potentially still enough time left we don't have to foul and if we manage to stop them again we could have the ball for the final shot to tie or win. Or maybe if we cut it to 1 foul them this way the lead can be no more then 3 giving us one last shot to send it to OT. I'm just saying a terrible call like that shouldn't be made with the game still very much in doubt. 4 points is not too much to come back from with nearly a minute to play. After the foul and free throws we scored fast but they pushed the lead to 6 with the foul. I'm not saying we would've stopped them from scoring those 2 points and gotten the rebound to cut it to 2 or 1 there. Its entirely possible though. The bad foul just killed any chance we had. I mean the call was so bad that immediately the announcers said he never touched him. If two guys watching at half court at full speed can get it right, shouldn't the 3 guys who are trained refs also get it right?

[Eazy E]

"From Elias: Carmelo Anthony now has 10 NBA seasons under his belt and has yet to make it to the NBA Finals. Anthony's regular-season scoring average of 25 points per game is the second highest all-time among players that played at least 10 seasons and never made it to an NBA Finals."

He's never made it to the conference finals has he?

I think the Nuggets made it to the West finals once, but I could be wrong.  Either way, it's a big time indictment on him as a "superstar" (same goes for Chris Paul actually... he's had some big time playoff duds in the past, I think he put up 4 points in one game in New Orleans).

Makes me even more curious who voted Melo over James for MVP this year.....

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

Probably Peter Vescey or one of his "sources."

The Nuggets got to the WCF in 2009, if my memory serves me well.  Lost to the Lakers in 6.

[tim_m]

This time you can't blame it on Anthony. He did everything he could to win this series for us with a bum shoulder. The guys around him disappeared. Kidd  was invisible, Chandler was invisible, Smith took a dump after his suspension and Felton disappeared. The only other Knick that was scoring was Shumpert. You just can't win a game with two players scoring.

[faldor]

"From Elias: Carmelo Anthony now has 10 NBA seasons under his belt and has yet to make it to the NBA Finals. Anthony's regular-season scoring average of 25 points per game is the second highest all-time among players that played at least 10 seasons and never made it to an NBA Finals."

He's never made it to the conference finals has he?

I think the Nuggets made it to the West finals once, but I could be wrong.  Either way, it's a big time indictment on him as a "superstar" (same goes for Chris Paul actually... he's had some big time playoff duds in the past, I think he put up 4 points in one game in New Orleans).

Makes me even more curious who voted Melo over James for MVP this year.....

it was actually Gary Washburn of the Boston Globe who voted for Melo. He wrote an article explaining why he did so. I didn't read it, but he stood behind it.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2013/05/05/yes-voted-carmelo-anthony-for-mvp-and-for-good-reason/Yo08ZgzGaxzlt9KF0JDfqM/story.html

[GeorgeSteele]

Agreed that Pacers were the better team and the MVP vote for Melo was dumb.  But if he's not a superstar, then right now Durant and Lebron are the only superstars in the league.

The Knicks falling short had little to do with Melo's shortcomings and everything to do with the fact that the rest of the team (including the coach) crapped the bed in the playoffs (except Shumpert, he was good).  Every other key player --- Felton, Chandler, Smith --- produced way below their regular season averages in all facets.  That said, this team will never be a title contender if its playoff offense is built around Melo taking 30 shots per game.

The fact that Kenyon Martin --- a player who could not find a spot with any team for even the league minimum all season --- was getting major playoff minutes says it all about the state of the team's roster. 

[faldor]

Agreed that Pacers were the better team and the MVP vote for Melo was dumb.  But if he's not a superstar, then right now Durant and Lebron are the only superstars in the league.

The Knicks falling short had little to do with Melo's shortcomings and everything to do with the fact that the rest of the team (including the coach) crapped the bed in the playoffs (except Shumpert, he was good).  Every other key player --- Felton, Chandler, Smith --- produced way below their regular season averages in all facets.  That said, this team will never be a title contender if its playoff offense is built around Melo taking 30 shots per game.

The fact that Kenyon Martin --- a player who could not find a spot with any team for even the league minimum all season --- was getting major playoff minutes says it all about the state of the team's roster. 

That's the reason, Gary Washburn cast his vote for Melo for MVP.  You take Melo off of the Knicks and they go from the 2 seed to maybe having the 2nd overall pick in the draft.  I think he had by far the worst supporting cast among any of the other MVP candidates.  So as crazy as it sounds for Melo to be more valuable than Lebron, a case can be made.  Is he a better player than Lebron?  Absolutely not.  No one is going to dispute that.  But the old, what does most valuable player mean comes into question.

[GeorgeSteele]

Agreed that Pacers were the better team and the MVP vote for Melo was dumb.  But if he's not a superstar, then right now Durant and Lebron are the only superstars in the league.

The Knicks falling short had little to do with Melo's shortcomings and everything to do with the fact that the rest of the team (including the coach) crapped the bed in the playoffs (except Shumpert, he was good).  Every other key player --- Felton, Chandler, Smith --- produced way below their regular season averages in all facets.  That said, this team will never be a title contender if its playoff offense is built around Melo taking 30 shots per game.

The fact that Kenyon Martin --- a player who could not find a spot with any team for even the league minimum all season --- was getting major playoff minutes says it all about the state of the team's roster. 

That's the reason, Gary Washburn cast his vote for Melo for MVP.  You take Melo off of the Knicks and they go from the 2 seed to maybe having the 2nd overall pick in the draft.  I think he had by far the worst supporting cast among any of the other MVP candidates.  So as crazy as it sounds for Melo to be more valuable than Lebron, a case can be made.  Is he a better player than Lebron?  Absolutely not.  No one is going to dispute that.  But the old, what does most valuable player mean comes into question.

Yeah, but even if you accept the "most valuable" is different than "best" logic, all you need to do is look at Cleveland with Lebron (perennial 60+ wins) and without (shit).  Also, his argument is that Miami would be a 5th seed without Lebron, while the Knicks would be a lottery team without Melo.  Well, the Knicks were 20 wins better than a lottery team and Miami was 21 games better than the East 5th seed.
 

[Eazy E]

I think making guys like Melo into "stars" is pushing a bad brand of basketball too... someone has to score the points, but it seems like this isolation play form of basketball ends up propping up one player at the expense of winning.  Maybe someone who follows the Knicks can correct me, but that's what I get from Melo.  If things aren't going well, instead of trying to get the team going - he tries to carry the load himself more (and when it doesn't work the supporting cast isn't doing their job). 

I'm in the same situation with Rudy Gay being on the Raptors... he's a chucker despite having a poor FG%.  Don't get me wrong, they've got great skills... but they aren't using their potential to benefit their team.  Meanwhile the Grizzlies trade their "star" Gay and wind up in the West finals, along with teams like Miami and San Antonio that have balanced, unselfish offensive sets. I would think an MVP vote for someone lke Tony Parker would be more justifiable than Carmelo vote.

I blame Kobe.   

[tim_m]

He did try to get them going though, they just couldn't find a basket consistently from anyone not named Shumpert. Felton, Smith, Novak etc couldn't hit a shot if the basket was ten feet wide in this series. The only other guy who did anything worth a damn was Copeland. George you hit the nail on the head. It had little to do with Melo not playing well but more with his teammates faltering. You really need to look to that game 4 against Boston. Smith is suspended and it started to unravel. I have no idea how his absence for one game caused things to unravel so quickly and badly but it did.

[GeorgeSteele]

As for the remaining teams, Miami is no doubt the heavy favorite, but I think all 3 of the other teams are more than capable of beating Miami, whose weakness --- interior defense --- plays right into the hands of Memphis and SA's strengths (and even Indiana with Hibbert and West).

[Eazy E]

As for the remaining teams, Miami is no doubt the heavy favorite, but I think all 3 of the other teams are more than capable of beating Miami, whose weakness --- interior defense --- plays right into the hands of Memphis and SA's strengths (and even Indiana with Hibbert and West).

Right... if guys like Allen, Battier, Miller, etc. have their shots falling - I don't think the Heat can be stopped.  All these teams are capable though, even more so if one of the big 3 should miss games due to injury, or even get limited due to injury (i.e. D-Wade).  Should be a good couple of weeks!

[tim_m]

I like Memphis to be the team in the West. They look really good.

[faldor]

He did try to get them going though, they just couldn't find a basket consistently from anyone not named Shumpert. Felton, Smith, Novak etc couldn't hit a shot if the basket was ten feet wide in this series. The only other guy who did anything worth a damn was Copeland. George you hit the nail on the head. It had little to do with Melo not playing well but more with his teammates faltering. You really need to look to that game 4 against Boston. Smith is suspended and it started to unravel. I have no idea how his absence for one game caused things to unravel so quickly and badly but it did.

I think the JR Smith suspension and whole dressing for a funeral in the Boston series was merely coincidental that the Knicks didn't look as good from that point forward.  That Celtics team just wasn't that good.  They were the 7th seed for a reason.  They had NO legitimate ball handlers, and the Knicks had a field day on the defensive end exploiting that.  The fact the Celtics were able to run off back to back wins had more to do with their resiliency.  And maybe the Knicks let up a little, but they straightened themselves out enough to hold on in game 6.  I think their shooters just got cold.  Smith went from lights out to cold as ice.  Felton played great against the C's, and couldn't carry it over to the 2nd round.  They faced a much better team in the Pacers, and that proved too much for them.

As for the other 3 teams remaining, they're all good teams but Miami is a great team and I don't think they'll be challenged all that much.  They MAY see a game 6, but I wouldn't expect anymore than that.  Unless some crazy stuff happens of course, but I don't anticipate that happening.  I think Lebron has matured to the point where he could win with a far less formidable supporting cast like in his Cleveland days.  So I think even if Wade or others aren't themselves, I think Lebron can will his way to victory basically on his own at this point.  Makes me wish even more he would've stayed in Cleveland.  Things would've been at least a little more competitive and more impressive a feat for him as well.

[gnr-4-ever]

"From Elias: Carmelo Anthony now has 10 NBA seasons under his belt and has yet to make it to the NBA Finals. Anthony's regular-season scoring average of 25 points per game is the second highest all-time among players that played at least 10 seasons and never made it to an NBA Finals."

He's never made it to the conference finals has he?

He has once with the Nuggets when they got Billups. (2009 I believe) LA beat them 4-2 to advance to the finals. That was the first of 2 times Melo has been out of the first round.

[GeorgeSteele]

I like Memphis to be the team in the West. They look really good.

Yeah, me too.  Miami mostly plays with Bosh at center and Lebron at power forward --- I would think they'd have a hard time guarding Z-Bo and Gasol.  Also, Tony Allen from his days with the Cs has a very good track record of containing Lebron. 

[tim_m]

I like Memphis to be the team in the West. They look really good.

Yeah, me too.  Miami mostly plays with Bosh at center and Lebron at power forward --- I would think they'd have a hard time guarding Z-Bo and Gasol.  Also, Tony Allen from his days with the Cs has a very good track record of containing Lebron. 

If they make it i don't think its a slam dunk the Heat winning it all.

[tim_m]

Well maybe San Antonio is gonna be the team. They are up 2-0 now.

[GeorgeSteele]

Well maybe San Antonio is gonna be the team. They are up 2-0 now.

We'll see, I think that Memphis may have figured something out after the half in Game 2.  Also, Spurs can't keep shooting 3s at this rate.  Griz came back from down 0-2 against the Clippers...

Pacers fucking blew it last night.  2.2 seconds left, up 1 and the coach takes Hibbert out of the game?  WTF?  It seemed as if they drew up their defense to plan exactly how they can give up an open layup.  Did they think they were up 3?  Beyond ridiculous.