"Next Album" rumor / speculation thread *UPDATE AUG 22/2023*

[mortismurphy]

Jarmo, what was the record company theoretically meant to do? Your argument presupposes that the release lacked, some mysterious promotion push, that did not transpire.

- There were television slots as I remember one appearing on UK television
- there were promotional displays in the record stores.
- there were posters

Traditionally, the main source of promotion is, touring. Axl was in hibernation for a year when he should have been on the bona fide 'Chinese Democracy Tour'. Other sources of promotion consist of, magazine interviews, television interviews, photo shoots which are all the sole prerogative of the artist, not the record company.

[TheBaconman]

I am expected to believe that they did not wish to promote an album that they had pumped $13 million into?

One big factor is that they recouped their money in the Best Buy deal.

Also guns n roses recouped a lot of there money through the best buy deal

I am curious though

Who owns all these recordings that Axl is now sitting on?

The label or Guns or a combo?

Say the label put 10 million into the recordings and Axl put 4....  I would think it would be some sort of a combo ownership

But who knows.

Mb the label just cut there losses with the release of CD and before Axl will present any music to the label, he would want the to cover the cost of that reported 4 million.

Also

With all these mixing sessions and just plain working on new material.   Who is paying for that?

When DJ presented Axl with 12 demos did Axl buy them off DJ?  Does guns own them now, or is DJ free to use them in any project he chooses.   If Axl doesn't ever use them?

This is stuff I am curious about and seem like simple questions that guns management could answer.   If we ever heard from them.

[TheBaconman]

Jarmo, what was the record company theoretically meant to do? Your argument presupposes that the release lacked, some mysterious promotion push, that did not transpire.

- There were television slots as I remember one appearing on UK television
- there were promotional displays in the record stores.
- there were posters

Traditionally, the main source of promotion is, touring. Axl was in hibernation for a year when he should have been on the bona fide 'Chinese Democracy Tour'. Other sources of promotion consist of, magazine interviews, television interviews, photo shoots which are all the sole prerogative of the artist, not the record company.

A big cost to the label is promotion.  Same with a movie in  a theatre    Promotion and marketing is a huge cost to any project

Once the best buy deal came out and the label got paid.  I see them just cutting all there losses with the album and not wanting to invest anymore money into it.

[mortismurphy]

Jarmo, what was the record company theoretically meant to do? Your argument presupposes that the release lacked, some mysterious promotion push, that did not transpire.

- There were television slots as I remember one appearing on UK television
- there were promotional displays in the record stores.
- there were posters

Traditionally, the main source of promotion is, touring. Axl was in hibernation for a year when he should have been on the bona fide 'Chinese Democracy Tour'. Other sources of promotion consist of, magazine interviews, television interviews, photo shoots which are all the sole prerogative of the artist, not the record company.

A big cost to the label is promotion.  Same with a movie in  a theatre    Promotion and marketing is a huge cost to any project

Once the best buy deal came out and the label got paid.  I see them just cutting all there losses with the album and not wanting to invest anymore money into it.

'Promotion'. what does that term mean when you a promoting a person in hibernation?

[jarmo]

Jarmo, what was the record company theoretically meant to do? Your argument presupposes that the release lacked, some mysterious promotion push, that did not transpire.

You still did not answer the first question!


Also, you're talking about the UK. I think it seems like even Axl is aware that things were better outside the US:

I can say how the band feels, and that is that to a man they hate the record company other than Universal International with a passion. And that's with me talking with them about the record company negatively hardly ever, if at all. They're not blind: They hear the talk and see the results. Our involvement with Interscope has been more than frustrating for them. It's not like anyone here wants to have any negative views, impressions or opinions. They don't go around bitching about things all the time and they don't let it get in the way of whatever they're supposed to do here, but it is what it is.

The difference between the rest of us and the USA is that in the US, you couldn't just walk into a record store and buy the album. You had to go to a Best Buy. So if let's say HMV wanted to put an add in Metro to sell the album, they could.


Regarding what I want the record company to do. Well, they could have some kind of plan in place. At least some ideas. That would've been a start.
They tend to have publicists working for them and so on...




/jarmo

[TheBaconman]

Jarmo, what was the record company theoretically meant to do? Your argument presupposes that the release lacked, some mysterious promotion push, that did not transpire.

- There were television slots as I remember one appearing on UK television
- there were promotional displays in the record stores.
- there were posters

Traditionally, the main source of promotion is, touring. Axl was in hibernation for a year when he should have been on the bona fide 'Chinese Democracy Tour'. Other sources of promotion consist of, magazine interviews, television interviews, photo shoots which are all the sole prerogative of the artist, not the record company.

A big cost to the label is promotion.  Same with a movie in  a theatre    Promotion and marketing is a huge cost to any project

Once the best buy deal came out and the label got paid.  I see them just cutting all there losses with the album and not wanting to invest anymore money into it.

'Promotion'. what does that term mean when you a promoting a person in hibernation?

There where lots of other members of the band.  That wrote the album CD.  I isnt see any of them out promoting and selling the record.  Why was that?  It wasn't all the labs and Axls lack of promoting and marketing the album.   Where was tommy and dizzy and Paul and all these other guys that have writting credits on the album.   If it was me and I was lucky enough to have one writting credit on a GNR album I would be out busting my ass trying to promote and sell as many copies as possible of it.   Where were all the others guys?

[sky dog]

Jarmo, you are spitting in the wind. "They" really don't care what Axl had to say on the matter because it is and never will be what "they" want to hear. It's like a dog chasing it's tail at this point.  

[Ginger King]

Jarmo, you are spitting in the wind. "They" really don't care what Axl had to say on the matter because it is and never will be what "they" want to hear. It's like a dog chasing it's tail at this point.  

That?s not true at all.  Jarmo?s wondering where was the label?s marketing plan?and I think we all agree the label could?ve (and should?ve) done more.  But there?s this other question that people pretend doesn?t exist:  Where was Axl?s marketing plan?  Jarmo seems to excuse his conduct because the label didn?t have its shit together, or at least domestic Universal didn?t have its shit together.  Ok, so where was Axl?s international marketing plan?  If things were better with Universal International, one would suppose that the band would focus its marketing efforts there.

My point is that it was (and still is) a two way street.  Force feeding this notion that the label didn?t do its job so therefore band didn?t have to do theirs doesn?t make sense.  Anyone that puts their blinders on and solely blames the label (or Axl for that matter) is clearly not looking at things objectively. 

[sky dog]

I said in a prior post that it was both parties fault in my opinion. They sealed the Best Buy deal together and went their separate ways....too much bad blood between them at that point.

It is a moot point now.

[JAEBALL]

I said in a prior post that it was both parties fault in my opinion. They sealed the Best Buy deal together and went their separate ways....too much bad blood between them at that point.

It is a moot point now.

Yeah that's a good point... once Best Buy took a load off their shoulders... they basically washed their hands of the whole thing ... seems like they were fed up at that point.

[Ginger King]

I said in a prior post that it was both parties fault in my opinion. They sealed the Best Buy deal together and went their separate ways....too much bad blood between them at that point.

It is a moot point now.

Yeah that's a good point... once Best Buy took a load off their shoulders... they basically washed their hands of the whole thing ... seems like they were fed up at that point.

With Universal's release of AFD, let's hope it's now water under the bridge.

[JAEBALL]

I said in a prior post that it was both parties fault in my opinion. They sealed the Best Buy deal together and went their separate ways....too much bad blood between them at that point.

It is a moot point now.

Yeah that's a good point... once Best Buy took a load off their shoulders... they basically washed their hands of the whole thing ... seems like they were fed up at that point.

With Universal's release of AFD, let's hope it's now water under the bridge.

I hope so too... but just to plays devils advocate... does one really have to do with the other?

I'd imagine the production costs of that DVD were very minimal in comparison to the millions spent on Chinese Democracy.... also... concerns the label had about selling different sounding GNR songs are also not of a concern with a concert DVD filled with songs called Welcome tot he Jungle.

As with anything here... those are all guesses.

[EmilyGNR]

Jarmo, you are spitting in the wind. "They" really don't care what Axl had to say on the matter because it is and never will be what "they" want to hear. It's like a dog chasing it's tail at this point.  

I agree with this skydog.They don't want the truth, they just want to bitch about the way it was done.

Im still chuckling at "Wahhh I contacted the band because I wanted to use my amateur skills to help promote and they never got back to me" and "Wahhh I burnt illegal copies for all my friends because I was too cheap to buy them copies"
 

I bought multiple copies of CD as well as AFDemocracy to give as gifts, as far as I'm concerned it was a solid investment.

I also got tix for friends and sent them out, It seemed like a nice gesture, will do the same with the next release and tour .

[D-GenerationX]

I hope so too... but just to plays devils advocate... does one really have to do with the other?

I'd imagine the production costs of that DVD were very minimal in comparison to the millions spent on Chinese Democracy.... also... concerns the label had about selling different sounding GNR songs are also not of a concern with a concert DVD filled with songs called Welcome tot he Jungle.

As with anything here... those are all guesses.

There has also likely been turnover in 6 year's time.

Perhaps a strained relationship is cured via dealing with new folks.

[D-GenerationX]

Im still chuckling at "Wahhh I contacted the band because I wanted to use my amateur skills to help promote and they never got back to me"

Satire really does starve on Saturday night.

[jarmo]

That’s not true at all.  Jarmo’s wondering where was the label’s marketing plan…and I think we all agree the label could’ve (and should’ve) done more.  But there’s this other question that people pretend doesn’t exist:  Where was Axl’s marketing plan?  Jarmo seems to excuse his conduct because the label didn’t have its shit together, or at least domestic Universal didn’t have its shit together.  Ok, so where was Axl’s international marketing plan?  If things were better with Universal International, one would suppose that the band would focus its marketing efforts there.

Hold on. Axl's marketing plan?
He made the album. The record company is supposed to have a plan on how to market and promote it.
Then, he could come with feedback on whether or not he wants to take part in let's say a TV show or whatever. From my limited understanding, that's the way things usually go.

Once he realized none of that was going to happen. he did some interviews to speak his mind and explain his point of view so those of you wondering why, got your answers.



/jarmo

[sofine11]

That?s not true at all.  Jarmo?s wondering where was the label?s marketing plan?and I think we all agree the label could?ve (and should?ve) done more.  But there?s this other question that people pretend doesn?t exist:  Where was Axl?s marketing plan?  Jarmo seems to excuse his conduct because the label didn?t have its shit together, or at least domestic Universal didn?t have its shit together.  Ok, so where was Axl?s international marketing plan?  If things were better with Universal International, one would suppose that the band would focus its marketing efforts there.

Hold on. Axl's marketing plan?
He made the album. The record company is supposed to have a plan on how to market and promote it.
Then, he could come with feedback on whether or not he wants to take part in let's say a TV show or whatever. From my limited understanding, that's the way things usually go.

Once he realized none of that was going to happen. he did some interviews to speak his mind and explain his point of view so those of you wondering why, got your answers.



/jarmo

That's where Azoff screwed the pooch, correct?  Wasn't he the one who was supposed to be organizing all that promotion with the label behind the scenes?  Axl's brief against him claimed that he, in effect, tried to sabotage the release of Chinese Democracy.  Maybe Azoff had a lot to do with the label's inactivity.  Not really sure.

Does anyone still have that brief?  I remember it was floating around a few years back.

[pilferk]

My take on the whole situation is that the relationship between Axl/GN'R and the record company is probably OK at the moment. We know about the "outbursts" the band had in the time after the release of Chinese. Since then I think Axl is the only one who's mentioned the label in interviews, and he seemed quite diplomatic - wanting to negotiate/work things out.

They did release the concert DVD/Blu-Ray last year, and that was under their label. That's a good thing.

As of right now, I don't assume the worst about the label. I have a feeling they're working together towards a release now.

I think there is optimism on both sides.  I suspect they have worked out some of their issues, leading up to, and just after, the release of CD.

I also think a SOME of those issues were perpetuated and made WORSE by Azoff, whether intentionally or not.

I think removing Azoff actually may have improved (as both sides got the real story, and both sides exposed some of Azoff's bullshit) relationships.

[sofine11]

My take on the whole situation is that the relationship between Axl/GN'R and the record company is probably OK at the moment. We know about the "outbursts" the band had in the time after the release of Chinese. Since then I think Axl is the only one who's mentioned the label in interviews, and he seemed quite diplomatic - wanting to negotiate/work things out.

They did release the concert DVD/Blu-Ray last year, and that was under their label. That's a good thing.

As of right now, I don't assume the worst about the label. I have a feeling they're working together towards a release now.

I think there is optimism on both sides.  I suspect they have worked out some of their issues, leading up to, and just after, the release of CD.

I also think a SOME of those issues were perpetuated and made WORSE by Azoff, whether intentionally or not.

I think removing Azoff actually may have improved (as both sides got the real story, and both sides exposed some of Azoff's bullshit) relationships.

I still am not sure how to feel about Azoff.  On one hand, he's the manager who secured the Best Buy deal and subsequently (and finally) got Chinese Democracy into our hands.  On the other hand, he may or may not have sabotaged said release in hopes that he could score a reunion, if we're to believe the allegations.

[pilferk]

Frankly, it puts more of this on Axl, I think.

The label hates him and his band is a tougher talking point to sell given that release.  Obviously, they can still work with him.

If...he so desires.

See, here's the misconception...and I've addressed it before.

Label's don't "hate".  In fact, they don't "anything" remotely approaching humanity, human emotion, or human decency.

They make money.  That is their sole purpose, and they are driven to do what look like really crappy things, when judged by humans, to do it.  They ride artists, sap every ounce of creative productivity out of them, and then toss them aside as soon as things start to look dicey (unless they have a back catalog that makes them ridiculous amounts of money).

So, it's not about whether the label "hates" Axl and his band.  It's about what kind of money GnR can make them, how they can best maximize the profit off of them based on the contractual obligations, and how they can best position the GnR brand to benefit them.  Period.

The Blu Ray was obviously a good call...it seems to have sold very well!  I credit all parties for that success...but I don't pretend, for a second, the label did it because they suddenly "love" Axl.  They did it because they saw an opportunity to make some money.