"Next Album" rumor / speculation thread *UPDATE AUG 22/2023*

[D-GenerationX]

I think the label and Axl fucked the release up...takes two to tango....end of discussion...move on.

I largely agree.  Both took a position of "man, fuck that guy".

But who is hurt more by that?  I think that is the point that sometimes gets lost here.

Are you better served sitting there with your arms folded and blaming the label while you do nothing?

Or are you better served cursing the label privately, and then picking up the dropped ball and trying to salvage whatever you can on your own for yourself and your band?

[JAEBALL]

I think the label and Axl fucked the release up...takes two to tango....end of discussion...move on.

I largely agree.  Both took a position of "man, fuck that guy".

But who is hurt more by that?  I think that is the point that sometimes gets lost here.

Are you better served sitting there with your arms folded and blaming the label while you do nothing?

Or are you better served cursing the label privately, and then picking up the dropped ball and trying to salvage whatever you can on your own for yourself and your band?

I have read this argument a 100 times now in regards to the label and how they fucked it all up... and this is really the only important part if you are going to break it down..

Even if the label was 100 percent in the wrong... it affected Axl, not them.

And who knows... even if Axl was on the cover of magazines doing interviews... that doesn't mean they would have sold X more records... bottom line.. it's in the past.

I know Axl's integrity is so very important to some people... but hopefully he and the label can play ball with each other a little bit.

[jarmo]

Are you better served sitting there with your arms folded and blaming the label while you do nothing?

Or are you better served cursing the label privately, and then picking up the dropped ball and trying to salvage whatever you can on your own for yourself and your band?

Once again, simplified view of everything.
You can't seem to see past your own nose.

This situation is somewhat unique. They made a deal with an exclusive retailer. The record company couldn't be bothered.
So in your simple opinion Axl should've gone out promoting the album, making more money for his label, who want zero to do with him and the album. Only to make you happy.

Why don't they use this in sports more. Your way of doing things. You only need a quarterback in (American) football right? Those other people are just extras. Who needs a team....





/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

I didn't give you any number of how much Axl promoted the album.
I gave you the explanations why he didn't do as much as you and your virtual pal wished.

It's right there, HIS reasons. In writing. Question answered. Done.

And we are discussing those answers.   

You don't like that discussion.  Too bad.  Don't jump in if its so upsetting.

There are conversation that go on here every day that make me roll my eyes.  I don't jump into them.

We are not disputing label malfeasance, but we are also are saying is that even if the label drops the ball, you pick it up.

That's your opinion. As a disgruntled fan. It does in no way make it a fact. You need to keep this in mind. Your opinion, is not a fact.

Never presented any of this as fact.  So no worries on that front.

I am presenting an opinion.  Its an opinion you don't like.  Isn't the first, unlikely to be the last.

Life will go on for the both of us.

[D-GenerationX]

I know Axl's integrity is so very important to some people... but hopefully he and the label can play ball with each other a little bit.

At this level, its a business.  That should come first.

[D-GenerationX]

This situation is somewhat unique. They made a deal with an exclusive retailer. The record company couldn't be bothered.
So in your simple opinion Axl should've gone out promoting the album, making more money for his label, who want zero to do with him and the album. Only to make you happy.

This is a preposterous position, on a few levels.

Axl's interest is not in the label finances, or the whims of a guy on the internet.  Totally ridiculous.

The interest, presumably, is in the work he spent a decade on.  That all these other guys gave their time and effort to.  In his future as a viable act in this business.

Failure to take an interest on any of those levels is a big part of why he's at where he's at right now.  The hope is that he learned from it.

[Ginger King]

You two are ignoring what Axl said because it does not agree with your twisted opinion of the situation.

And yet, aren't you the guys asking for updates? When you have answers, you ignore them.
Ironic.


Also, God your life must be boring. You're going back to discussing the lack of promotion (in your opinion). Again!
Holy shit.  Yes we know you don't like it. Now move the fuck on already. It's been six years.

I'm sorry Axl didn't personally deliver the album to you and apologize for not getting it there earlier!




/jarmo

Yes, that?s what they?re upset about.  Axl didn?t hand deliver CD.  If you can?t see how/why people would have concerns about history repeating itself with CDII regarding marketing and promotion, then it?s no wonder you want this conversation to end ASAP.  It seems you are saying that Axl?s promoting (or lack thereof) of CD was excusable because of the conduct of the label.  I disagree.  You stand behind your product regardless of the level of perceived label support.  Sorry, IMO engaging in internet chats on a fan forum does not count as adequate promotion. 

On another note:  who the fuck cares about artwork on the inside of a booklet?  How does that affect the quality of the music? 

[sky dog]

I care about the artwork....as do a lot of people.

[D-GenerationX]

On another note:  who the fuck cares about artwork on the inside of a booklet?  How does that affect the quality of the music? 

The vibe I have always gotten was that it was, at best, a sign of disrespect or a slap in the face. 

At worst, it was direct sabotage because...well, that part is never really explained.

Sure seems like the more likely explanation was something got fucked up.  That happens in life from time to time.  You deal with it.

[jarmo]

And we are discussing those answers.   

You don't like that discussion.  Too bad.  Don't jump in if its so upsetting.

There are conversation that go on here every day that make me roll my eyes.  I don't jump into them.

You're not discussing anything. You're ridiculing it.
What are you, eight years old?

If you can’t see how/why people would have concerns about history repeating itself with CDII regarding marketing and promotion, then it’s no wonder you want this conversation to end ASAP.  It seems you are saying that Axl’s promoting (or lack thereof) of CD was excusable because of the conduct of the label.  I disagree.  You stand behind your product regardless of the level of perceived label support.  Sorry, IMO engaging in internet chats on a fan forum does not count as adequate promotion. 

This has been addressed already. Multiple times.
You guys just keep going on about it because in your minds, it should've been done differently.

Let me ask you this, why are you so concerned about marketing and promotion?

I thought, the MUSIC was what you wanted. Not the promotional campaign and marketing.

On another note:  who the fuck cares about artwork on the inside of a booklet?  How does that affect the quality of the music? 

A bunch of people.

But I guess if you're more concerned about marketing of the album, then something trivial as the artwork might not be important...





/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

This has been addressed already. Multiple times.

You guys just keep going on about it because in your minds, it should've been done differently.

More that it could have been done differently.  And perhaps if it was, things would be better than they are today.  That's all.

As I often say, however, if we could go back in time and do things differently in the world of GNR, we ain't starting with this.

This is ultimately harmless conversation that does not change one thing.  Why you choose to get so fired the fuck up about it, I have no idea.  What's its getting you? 

Let me ask you this, why are you so concerned about marketing and promotion?

I thought, the MUSIC was what you wanted. Not the promotional campaign and marketing.

The music is what we want.  That's the most important thing.

But, on another level, we'd like to see our favorite artist do well.  Doing well means better exposure and better fan experience.

[Ginger King]

On another note:  who the fuck cares about artwork on the inside of a booklet?  How does that affect the quality of the music? 

A bunch of people.

But I guess if you're more concerned about marketing of the album, then something trivial as the artwork might not be important...


/jarmo

The marketing of an album (by a band) shows how important to the band said album is.  For example, it would appear that Scott Weiland has zero shits to give about the upcoming Art of Anarchy album.  Why?  Because of his instant distancing of himself from the product.

While not as extreme, Axl did distance himself from CD after it was released.  Sure, he did a web chat, but where was the tour in support of the album?  Where was his public show of support once it was released?  IMO, that shows a lack of confidence in the album, and if the band isn?t standing behind it, why should the general public?  Again, you justify his actions because the label sucked.  Fine.  But his quasi-hibernation after the album was released spoke volumes about his commitment to the material, IMO.

Now (bringing things to modern times) I think people are wondering if history is going to repeat itself.  His support of the next album should not be contingent on the label doing everything he wants them to do. 

[D-GenerationX]

While not as extreme, Axl did distance himself from CD after it was released.  Sure, he did a web chat, but where was the tour in support of the album?  Where was his public show of support once it was released?  IMO, that shows a lack of confidence in the album, and if the band isn?t standing behind it, why should the general public?  Again, you justify his actions because the label sucked.  Fine.  But his quasi-hibernation after the album was released spoke volumes about his commitment to the material, IMO.

Correct.

That's certainly how it came across to many, myself included.

Now (bringing things to modern times) I think people are wondering if history is going to repeat itself.  His support of the next album should not be contingent on the label doing everything he wants them to do. 

As I said earlier, you hope he learned.  I would very much like to think the #1 main idea of any next album is to not repeat the mistakes from the last one.

Of course there will always be a contingent of :

- why does he have to learn?
- who are you to tell him anything?
- what were the mistakes?
- who are you to decide what mistakes are?

...and such types. 

But that's just avoidance of an inconvenient conversation(s).  You chuckle and have some fun with that, and then hope someone else logs on.

[jarmo]

Why you choose to get so fired the fuck up about it, I have no idea.  What's its getting you?

Fired up? No, my tolerance for bullshit is somewhat low.

The music is what we want.  That's the most important thing.

But, on another level, we'd like to see our favorite artist do well.  Doing well means better exposure and better fan experience.

If there was some evidence that promotion equals success, you might have a case.
No, but really? Why is it such a big deal?

We all know Axl is selective regarding interviews. You have some kind of expectations that he'll completely change because he release an album?


So, how about this. Once the album comes out, you start your own one man promotional campaign. You'll tell everyone about the amazing new GN'R album and make sure they hear it. How's that for being constructive, wanting the band to do well and all that!?!

The marketing of an album (by a band) shows how important to the band said album is.  For example, it would appear that Scott Weiland has zero shits to give about the upcoming Art of Anarchy album.  Why?  Because of his instant distancing of himself from the product.

I don't agree with that. I do agree with the Weiland thing. But in general, some artists let the music do the talking. Doesn't mean they don't care about the music.
Unless, of course, they say "Don't buy this album, it's a rip off released by the record company to cash in".

But his quasi-hibernation after the album was released spoke volumes about his commitment to the material, IMO.

He played a bunch of it on tour. Released a concert movie with songs from it. And so on.
Everything's not as black as you portray it to be.



Also, I'll repeat what I already said. Maybe some of you are hoping that a new album will change something. Maybe you're "concerned" about promotion and marketing because you think it'll mean you'll see Axl on TV more or in more magazine. That kind of thing. Then when/if it doesn't happen, you'll be feeling upset that it wasn't promoted to your liking.

Just a theory.

I think many fans, as long as they have the music, don't care that much about the rest. It's a nice bonus to have an interview or two, but they don't care if the band is on morning TV or award shows to the left and right.....  I mean, all this doesn't change the most important thing, the music.

You chuckle and have some fun with that, and then hope someone else logs on.

Or in this case, we hope you logout and move on already.




/jarmo

[sofine11]

Various Universal reps claimed that Axl could not be reached during the time leading up to Chinese Democracy's release.  I honestly wonder why this was.  Was he already aware that things were going South with the promotion and playing hard ball just for the sake of it, or was something deeper going on there than what we're privy to?

I do not think it's outrageous to wonder whether the label will dump X-million into promoting a release, unless Axl grants some assurances that he will be around to promote it.  Just as I assume that Axl has some assurances of his own that he needs fulfilled this time out.

[D-GenerationX]

If there was some evidence that promotion equals success, you might have a case.
No, but really? Why is it such a big deal?

We all know Axl is selective regarding interviews. You have some kind of expectations that he'll completely change because he release an album?

Its more a hope that he doesn't want she same dogshit results he got the last time out doing things the way he did.  All we can do is hope.

If he does, awesome.  If he doesn't, oh well.  But he already knows how that goes, and so do all of us.

You chuckle and have some fun with that, and then hope someone else logs on.

Or in this case, we hope you logout and move on already.

And I do.  We call it the weekend.

Now, if what you are really after is for me to start conforming to your rigid and often ridiculous standards of fandom, well...you might want to pack a lunch.

[D-GenerationX]

Various Universal reps claimed that Axl could not be reached during the time leading up to Chinese Democracy's release.  I honestly wonder why this was.  Was he already aware that things were going South with the promotion and playing hard ball just for the sake of it, or was something deeper going on there than what we're privy to?

My personal OPINION was that it was self sabotage of sorts.

That he had serious doubts about all of this and was unwilling to go balls to the wall and, god forbid, have it fail, all very publically.

If you think about it, CD is not viewed as a flop.  Its certainly not viewed as a success, but its not really viewed as a flop.  In truth, its not regarded as much of anything. 

I personally do not believe, in my OPINION, that Axl was willing to risk a huge public failure to perhaps achieve a big public success.  Better to half ass it and fly under the radar. 

It revises results after the fact.  An album that debuts at #3 moving 261,000 units with no promotion or recognizable single?  That shit is gravy.  Not bad at all.

An album that drops right out of the charts and makes no real impact...hey, ain't no bad day.  It still did well, considering.

But now take those results and suppose you promoted the shit out of it.  Really, really went all out.  Put over the new band, the new material, how excied he was about all of it.  If that's the case, then those results are horrible.  Now, you look like a failure and a fool for trying to do all this the way you did it with a new band, all that time, and all of that.  He wasn't setting himself up for that. 

Ultimately, Axl is a survivor, as we are often told.  Survivors minimize risk and don't take crazy chances.

[EmilyGNR]

If there was some evidence that promotion equals success, you might have a case.
No, but really? Why is it such a big deal?

We all know Axl is selective regarding interviews. You have some kind of expectations that he'll completely change because he release an album?

Its more a hope that he doesn't want she same dogshit results he got the last time out doing things the way he did.  All we can do is hope.

If he does, awesome.  If he doesn't, oh well.  But he already knows how that goes, and so do all of us.

You chuckle and have some fun with that, and then hope someone else logs on.

Or in this case, we hope you logout and move on already.

And I do.  We call it the weekend.

Now, if what you are really after is for me to start conforming to your rigid and often ridiculous standards of fandom, well...you might want to pack a lunch.

You are ridiculous, if anything is "dogshit" it is you and your self-important redundant criticisims of any and all things GNR.

If you think this fan forum should change to conform to your hater agenda YOU might want to pack a lunch.

Some of us would like to talk about things without your negative crap continually painting everything in the worse possible light. It is very tiring and boring.

[Ginger King]

Various Universal reps claimed that Axl could not be reached during the time leading up to Chinese Democracy's release.  I honestly wonder why this was.  Was he already aware that things were going South with the promotion and playing hard ball just for the sake of it, or was something deeper going on there than what we're privy to?

My personal OPINION was that it was self sabotage of sorts.

That he had serious doubts about all of this and was unwilling to go balls to the wall and, god forbid, have it fail, all very publically.

If you think about it, CD is not viewed as a flop.  Its certainly not viewed as a success, but its not really viewed as a flop.  In truth, its not regarded as much of anything. 

I personally do not believe, in my OPINION, that Axl was willing to risk a huge public failure to perhaps achieve a big public success.  Better to half ass it and fly under the radar. 

It revises results after the fact.  An album that debuts at #3 moving 261,000 units with no promotion or recognizable single?  That shit is gravy.  Not bad at all.

An album that drops right out of the charts and makes no real impact...hey, ain't no bad day.  It still did well, considering.

But now take those results and suppose you promoted the shit out of it.  Really, really went all out.  Put over the new band, the new material, how excied he was about all of it.  If that's the case, then those results are horrible.  Now, you look like a failure and a fool for trying to do all this the way you did it with a new band, all that time, and all of that.  He wasn't setting himself up for that. 

Ultimately, Axl is a survivor, as we are often told.  Survivors minimize risk and don't take crazy chances.

Agree.  Maybe he assumed that CD was going to get a tepid response regardless of how hard he pushed it.  Maybe (again maybe, not fact) he realized CD could never live up to its expectation?it was being (unfairly) billed as the most anticipated album of all time.  Thus, he dialed it back and put on his artistic integrity hat.  That gives him the ability to lay any blame at the promoters/everyone else who got it wrong.

Also, that other rumor thread got axed pretty quick...

[EmilyGNR]

Various Universal reps claimed that Axl could not be reached during the time leading up to Chinese Democracy's release.  I honestly wonder why this was.  Was he already aware that things were going South with the promotion and playing hard ball just for the sake of it, or was something deeper going on there than what we're privy to?

My personal OPINION was that it was self sabotage of sorts.

That he had serious doubts about all of this and was unwilling to go balls to the wall and, god forbid, have it fail, all very publically.

If you think about it, CD is not viewed as a flop.  Its certainly not viewed as a success, but its not really viewed as a flop.  In truth, its not regarded as much of anything. 

I personally do not believe, in my OPINION, that Axl was willing to risk a huge public failure to perhaps achieve a big public success.  Better to half ass it and fly under the radar. 

It revises results after the fact.  An album that debuts at #3 moving 261,000 units with no promotion or recognizable single?  That shit is gravy.  Not bad at all.

An album that drops right out of the charts and makes no real impact...hey, ain't no bad day.  It still did well, considering.

But now take those results and suppose you promoted the shit out of it.  Really, really went all out.  Put over the new band, the new material, how excied he was about all of it.  If that's the case, then those results are horrible.  Now, you look like a failure and a fool for trying to do all this the way you did it with a new band, all that time, and all of that.  He wasn't setting himself up for that. 

Ultimately, Axl is a survivor, as we are often told.  Survivors minimize risk and don't take crazy chances.

Agree.  Maybe he assumed that CD was going to get a tepid response regardless of how hard he pushed it.  Maybe (again maybe, not fact) he realized CD could never live up to its expectation?it was being (unfairly) billed as the most anticipated album of all time.  Thus, he dialed it back and put on his artistic integrity hat.  That gives him the ability to lay any blame at the promoters/everyone else who got it wrong.

Also, that other rumor thread got axed pretty quick...

Rumor threads should get axed rapidly, I don't log in here to read refuse, there are already enough online cesspools that specialize in that.