"Next Album" rumor / speculation thread *UPDATE AUG 22/2023*

[rebelhipi]

Cd was released on nov 23rd, 2008, n the US (aka at Best Buy).

Black Friday was nov 28th, 2008.

Here is a link to a black friday ad archive for best buy for nov, 2008:

http://www.dealigg.com/blackfriday-2008.php?page=1&store=14

Notice cd is listed there for 11.99...its the third item on the list.

Heres another:

http://bfads.net/Black-Friday/Best-Buy/2008?page=5

So, yes....it saw a price reduction the week after releaee...from 13.99 to 11.99.

Now...would it shock me to see errata on some tags that ended up showing/printing at 1.99 (truncating the leading 1)? No...and the laws in the us would force the store to sell the mismarked units at that price, until the tags were fixed (which, I'm sure would happen quickly). Giving the benefit of the doubt, even, that was not the intentional price point. It would be like saying the price errata sears had earlier this year on ps4s was somehow indicative of them trying to dump inventory...

So, there you go. There is your price reducton.....a pretty predictable one considering everything goes on sale that weekend/week...after week one.

I've looked for subsequent flyers...theres a few if you google...and i dont see it listed for anything less than that 11.99 price point through the end of 2008 or early 2009. There are gaps in there where i can't find an archived flyer hanging around...but i doubt you'd see a single week, steep, price drop. I'd need to see printed proof in a flyer....

And please....dont point to a $2 price drop planned literally weeks (if not months) in advance as indicative of bb assessment of sales. Those black friday ads had LEAKED before cd was even released.

Thats cheap.
I remember paying something between 18-19? for the cd, about 25? for the vinyl,  5? for the chinese single and i think it was 50? or more for the boxset.

I bought the cd the day of the release, i remember thinkin how crazy is to release a new album on a sunday. And the rest i bought one at the time until my collection was complete before christmas time.

[pilferk]

Cd was released on nov 23rd, 2008, n the US (aka at Best Buy).

Black Friday was nov 28th, 2008.

Here is a link to a black friday ad archive for best buy for nov, 2008:

http://www.dealigg.com/blackfriday-2008.php?page=1&store=14

Notice cd is listed there for 11.99...its the third item on the list.

Heres another:

http://bfads.net/Black-Friday/Best-Buy/2008?page=5

So, yes....it saw a price reduction the week after releaee...from 13.99 to 11.99.

Now...would it shock me to see errata on some tags that ended up showing/printing at 1.99 (truncating the leading 1)? No...and the laws in the us would force the store to sell the mismarked units at that price, until the tags were fixed (which, I'm sure would happen quickly). Giving the benefit of the doubt, even, that was not the intentional price point. It would be like saying the price errata sears had earlier this year on ps4s was somehow indicative of them trying to dump inventory...

So, there you go. There is your price reducton.....a pretty predictable one considering everything goes on sale that weekend/week...after week one.

I've looked for subsequent flyers...theres a few if you google...and i dont see it listed for anything less than that 11.99 price point through the end of 2008 or early 2009. There are gaps in there where i can't find an archived flyer hanging around...but i doubt you'd see a single week, steep, price drop. I'd need to see printed proof in a flyer....

And please....dont point to a $2 price drop planned literally weeks (if not months) in advance as indicative of bb assessment of sales. Those black friday ads had LEAKED before cd was even released.

Thats cheap.
I remember paying something between 18-19? for the cd, about 25? for the vinyl,  5? for the chinese single and i think it was 50? or more for the boxset.

I bought the cd the day of the release, i remember thinkin how crazy is to release a new album on a sunday. And the rest i bought one at the time until my collection was complete before christmas time.

Yeah, but the price at release was $13.99 in the U.S. Thats a pretty typical price point for a new cd. Same price for the vinyl.

Currency conversions and vat (etc) mean thats not real portable country to country.

[mortismurphy]

I am willing to concede that I might be mixing up the two price reductions. The $1.99 sounds suspiciously specific and therefore, from the 2011 sale story, however, this does not contradict my recollection of the albums being offloaded for a ridiculously low sum, remarkably soon after release.

So you started at $1.  Then moved $1.99.  Now it's a offloaded for a ridiculously low sum remarkably soon after release?

So where was it and when, offloaded for a ridiculously low sum, remarkably after release. 

This is all garbage

How am I supposed to know the minutiae of Guns N? Roses when I have 'never liked the band in twenty years' and am certifiably 'insane'?

Which one of those albums had the following things working against it?

- Years of negative press.
- Leaks of almost full album months before.
- Exclusivity at electronics retailer.
- Album offered for free as stream on Myspace

You haven't answered me in the slightest there. The true sales figure is the only possible sales figure we have. You cannot construct a plausible alternative statistic, by altering time and creating an inter-dimensional history, removing Best Buy and My Space, adding more positive press - heck, reunite the old band (since we are in an alternative history, why not? That has got to increase sales). You do not know if any of those factors, removed, would significantly increase sales? Some of them, removed, may have decreased sales for all we know? Best Buy might have been better than the alternative. We just don't know. We can only deal with the indicative statistic we possess in our own reality.

261,000 first week, US sales.

All of that stuff may have hindered sales but some of it was decisions Axl took at the time. The very decision of, playing five or so new songs at Rio 3 (subsequently, bootlegged) was a decision Axl took at the time. Best Buy and My Space were presumably things he or his management signed off on. 'Negative press'' is debatable also (I remember, fairly decent reviews for the album). Conversely, what about the tremendous hype created by the legend, of this, 'crazy Howard Hughes figure spending ten years to make an album'. That might have added, extra sales. But again, we just don't know and we arrive at the only statistic we can work with,

261, 000.

I think most Metallica fans had forgiven the band by then. It's always easy to say "never" when you're upset.
It's not like the band had changed a bunch of members and kept doing things their way. Which apparently can make people upset and bitter for decades...

Well, perhaps. There are also a lot of Metallica fans who think the band have ''sucked ass'' since And Justice.

Sales number. Yes.
And I told you, just because it didn't sell as much as Black Ice, it doesn't make it a failure.

A subjective reading of the facts. What would it have sold, to be considered a commercial failure by you?

I did not disregard them! I've acknowledged the sales plenty of times AND offered possible reason for those numbers. You keep posting numbers, and I keep telling you possible reason for them.
Instead of acknowledging them, you ridicule them. Because you, as well as the rest of us, know you got nothing to come back with. So it's just met with usual ridicule.

Has there got to be, these, extra 'reason'? Occasionally great artists release albums which are terrible, and subsequently flop. Occasionally great bands release albums which do not resonate with a target audience, and flops. Occasionally albums simply, flop.

The same tactic people like yourself have used for about as long as you haven't been a fan for!

It is not your judgement to make, whether I am a fan or not. Actually I think fans who are critical and objective are bigger fans than fans such as yourself. Absolutely nothing Axl does, will ever be criticised by you. The guy has a completely free playing field. In contrast, a true fan will criticise a band when it heads in an ill-judged direction, or releases a turkey because they feel passionate enough about the output and public perception of the subject matter. But how much more reverent is the praise, from the objective fan? When a band gets it truly right, the praise is gold dust. In contrast, If you praise new guns, it does not really mean anything because, you praise everything Axl does. There is no, barometer of judgement there.

Didn't flop or fail. Sold less than the so called experts expected? Probably. Don't know what they expected to be honest.

...in your opinion.

The notion it flopped is certainly not an opinion, unique to me. Those articles already are using the language of commercial failure and that was just the first week!

Not really academic. That's just you trying to discredit the facts mentioned in your objective article.
If all sales are down, it means it's more difficult to sell more of any album....

True but it would have equally effected AC/DC, Metallica, Kanye West, Coldplay etc etc.

That is why I did not compare Chinese Democracy to Use Your Illusion - I have only compared it with the sales figures for 2008.

[rebelhipi]

One of the thing that suprised me the most about chinese was how little contribution Richard had on it,(reason being of cource that in 2002 most of the things were written and mostly recorded)

It will be interesting to see if on the new album there will be songs that Richard wrote, and also if will have DJ any contribution on the new album. I think that even if everything is recorded that givin Dj  a solo or two  or even a rhythm track to play would be nice.

[Spirit]

One of the thing that suprised me the most about chinese was how little contribution Richard had in it,(reason being of cource that in 2002 most of the things were written and mostly recorded)
It will be interesting to see if on the new album there will be songs the Richard wrote, and also if DJ have any contribution on the new album. I think that even if everything is recorded that givin Dj  a solo or two  or even a rhythm track to play would be nice.

Richard himself has said that his playing/writing will be more prominent on the next record.

As for Dj's contributions... I think it'll depend on what material they'll go with, if they want to release the remaining Chinese era tracks first.

[rebelhipi]

One of the thing that suprised me the most about chinese was how little contribution Richard had in it,(reason being of cource that in 2002 most of the things were written and mostly recorded)
It will be interesting to see if on the new album there will be songs the Richard wrote, and also if DJ have any contribution on the new album. I think that even if everything is recorded that givin Dj  a solo or two  or even a rhythm track to play would be nice.

Richard himself has said that his playing/writing will be more prominent on the next record.

As for Dj's contributions... I think it'll depend on what material they'll go with, if they want to release the remaining Chinese era tracks first.

Sounds great to me.

[Spirit]

Is this source enough to change the conversation here a bit?  Question for folks.

Axl has said that the next album is going to push things a bit further.  How will you reconcile that against a populus view that they need more classic rock sounding hit that are well promoted and Billboard ready?  If there are elements of industrial, are we going to hear the same tired complaints that the music is dated?  Or are you going to take the music for what it is (Axl's vision), and dismiss the notion that success only equals units pushed?

I'd like to see Axl and company promote the next record more and draw in a bigger crowd in.  But, at the same time, thats not necessarily going to impact my enjoyment of the new music.  GN'R is the only band that I personally can enjoy pretty much everything they've written.  Of course not every song is equal, but never been a song I have to skip.  One of the greatest things I can appreciate about this band is how they've not tried to make AFD again. 

Most exciting thing to me is to hear what Axl has created, and if that's something commercially successful thats awesome, but if its an epic song thats not so radio friendly, I'm enjoying it just as much, often more.

I'll always think it's a bold move to try to re-invent yourself. A classic rock sounding album would most likely please the most fans.

There will always be a bigger risk for an artist to step outside the familiar, and if you fail doing it, it doesn't look good. On the positive side, if you succeed, you tread into another level of accomplishment. And that should be the nature of artists right? To show people things they haven't experienced before.

Therefore I hope Axl & co dares to make a unexpected move with their music. That doesn't mean I wouldn't like a classic sounding album, but it would have been so much more fun if we got to hear Guns N Roses (once again) paving new paths for rock music.

[GFortusR]

Yes, I can't wait to see what the next album will have on it. I love Chinese Democracy and could care less if my copy was the only one that was sold. Its like a Nickelback fan using album sales as proof that any of their albums are better than CD! lol I mean really! I hope they stick to pushing the envelope. Black Ice was the same old same old, Chinese in my opinion blows it away. Now i'm not pushing pause on life and crying everyday something isn't released, but when they do release new material, that will no doubt be very sweet. Guns in all their incarnations has never disappointed me yet with the material they've released.     

[ice cream sand pig]

^^ (Spirit) I've been wondering about that. The next album is supposed to be an even further departure from appetite than CD was right? But more of the same (similar to CD)? I like the sound of both of those statements!

You'd think that since the whole "hoping it sounds like old GNR" folks have likely been out of the picture since CD, the band has less to lose this time around if they want to get real far out there with their sound.  

[The Wight Gunner]

My hope is that the next albums isn't called CD... Even if they use entirely tracks from that era.

The reason being that I'd like to see the band tour under a new banner, one that says that there is different music to be heard this  time, as well as the best of the rest. They could drop a few of covers such as LALD and KOHD which whilst being good songs, could allow the tour to showcase the bands own material. I get that these songs appear on Gn'R albums too, but they have enough [or will have with the next album] tracks to sculpture an entirely different show to the last few years...

[Dr. Blutarsky]

My hope is that the next albums isn't called CD... Even if they use entirely tracks from that era.

The reason being that I'd like to see the band tour under a new banner, one that says that there is different music to be heard this  time, as well as the best of the rest. They could drop a few of covers such as LALD and KOHD which whilst being good songs, could allow the tour to showcase the bands own material. I get that these songs appear on Gn'R albums too, but they have enough [or will have with the next album] tracks to sculpture an entirely different show to the last few years...

How many CD tours have they done now? Think it is time to move on and call the new album and subsequent tour something else.

[jarmo]

You haven't answered me in the slightest there. The true sales figure is the only possible sales figure we have.

I never discredited the numbers! You can say what you want, I didn't say those numbers were false.
Once agian, that's you focusig on something that's not there, just like when you try to make ridiculous generalizations.

All of that stuff may have hindered sales but some of it was decisions Axl took at the time.

Yes, there were positive reviews. You can add that to the + column.
Edited to add: But how many people buy albums based on reviews? Does the good reviews balance out the bad? Nobody knows.

Well, perhaps. There are also a lot of Metallica fans who think the band have ''sucked ass'' since And Justice.

I wonder if they go to their forum and keep pointing that out?

A subjective reading of the facts. What would it have sold, to be considered a commercial failure by you?

I don't know to be honest. Because I don't remember what albums sold at the time and I don't remember having any kind of sales expectations.

It is not your judgement to make, whether I am a fan or not. Actually I think fans who are critical and objective are bigger fans than fans such as yourself.

I can comment on things the way I see them just like you can continue going on and on about flops.
Works both ways. I'm glad you're a bigger fan than I am. Good for you! 

The notion it flopped is certainly not an opinion, unique to me. Those articles already are using the language of commercial failure and that was just the first week!

And I explained this to you.

True but it would have equally effected AC/DC, Metallica, Kanye West, Coldplay etc etc.

Of course it did. Nobody said it didn't.




/jarmo

[GNR2014]

30 Most Anticipated Rock + Metal Albums of 2015 | http://loudwire.com/most-anticipated-rock-metal-albums-2015/

[D-GenerationX]

How many CD tours have they done now? Think it is time to move on and call the new album and subsequent tour something else.

Agreed.  Need to start looking forward for the first time in some time.

No more "Appetite For..." or "Democracy" type operations.

[Spirit]

30 Most Anticipated Rock + Metal Albums of 2015 | http://loudwire.com/most-anticipated-rock-metal-albums-2015/

Can't see GNR on that list.

[jarmo]

The reason being that I'd like to see the band tour under a new banner, one that says that there is different music to be heard this  time, as well as the best of the rest. They could drop a few of covers such as LALD and KOHD which whilst being good songs, could allow the tour to showcase the bands own material. I get that these songs appear on Gn'R albums too, but they have enough [or will have with the next album] tracks to sculpture an entirely different show to the last few years...

The band plays certain covers for fun. Most of them don't appear on GN'R albums and weren't hits for the band, but they are fun additions to the set.



/jarmo

[JAEBALL]

The reason being that I'd like to see the band tour under a new banner, one that says that there is different music to be heard this  time, as well as the best of the rest. They could drop a few of covers such as LALD and KOHD which whilst being good songs, could allow the tour to showcase the bands own material. I get that these songs appear on Gn'R albums too, but they have enough [or will have with the next album] tracks to sculpture an entirely different show to the last few years...

The band plays certain covers for fun. Most of them don't appear on GN'R albums and weren't hits for the band, but they are fun additions to the set.



/jarmo

Understood. And that is fair. However, if out of Heavens Door, LALD The Seeker, and the solos...  they took two of those out and replaced them with extra CD songs, I feel that would have gone a long way in pushing the new music and the new band. They could even rotate each night who does a solo, not every guy has to have one each night.

Just my opinion. Even the first two that are old GNR staples... I could do with out. This comes up all the time, it's personal preference. The more CD songs that the CD era band performed would have been ideal to me.

[jarmo]

You're assuming that by taking certain songs out, they'd be replaced by something else. That's not always the case.




/jarmo

[JAEBALL]

You're assuming that by taking certain songs out, they'd be replaced by something else. That's not always the case.




/jarmo

Well no I'm not assuming anything. Just stating what I would have liked to have seen more of over the years, If I could really pick... they'd play Pretty Tied Up Coooooool ranch Dressing every night.

CD songs would make more sense tho....

[faldor]

I am quite certain the 1.99 deal came a few years after the release...or at least a year. Definitely not the first week or anytime in 2008 and early 2009. Plus, all of the stores eventually had a wide range of prices after the initial push. Who cares anyway? The album sold what it sold and the finances are Axl's and the record companies concern, not ours.

Can we ever get back to talking about the thread topic?

I think 2015 will be the year.....but not because of the Dr Pepper guy's comments! Let's leave Dr Pepper out of the next release.

The album was DEFINITELY not $1.99 a week after its release. That statement is nowhere close to correct. I believe it was $11.99 the 1st week (sale price, which is common for all major new releases). Then the price INCREASED to its normal retail value of $13.99. Probably a month or 2 later they dropped it to a sale price of $7.99 for a few weeks. I remember all of this quite vividly because I went into a lot of Best Buy's during that period and noticed they didn't even alter the price to reflect the sale. Once again, poor execution on Best Buy's part. Then a few years later, just before the exclusuvity deal ran out they lowered the price to $1.99. I bought a bunch of them and gave them to friends. To my knowledge, Best Buy doesn't even carry the album in stores anymore. At least I haven't seen it there in recent years. I think they were happy to wipe their hands clean of it.

But again the statement that the album was $1.99 in week 2 at Best Buy is completely false. Nice try though.

Edit - I just saw pilferk came up with all the facts. Sorry, a little late to the party.

Just be careful when you go around complaining about people misrepresenting facts and then do the same thing you're accusing others of. It's not a good look. Kind of ruins your credibility.