"Next Album" rumor / speculation thread *UPDATE AUG 22/2023*

[pilferk]

I don't know about the United States to to much, but here in Canada there is pretty much a walmart in every town city whatever.   Best buys are usually only found in major cities.   So if it's the same there, how would they expect this album to sell to small town America?  

A good point.  Best Buys are a little more prolific in the states, I think.  But nowhere NEAR as many as there are Walmarts.  That is for sure.

Which, again, points out the failing.  With Walmart...some of the exposure to Black Ice was to customers shopping, all the time, for "other stuff".  You get a ton more foot traffic in Walmart.

That doesn't happen as much in Best Buy...you just don't get the sheer number of people, or the diversity of folks, walking through the front door (because, at BB, you're looking for something much more specific than you might be at Walmart).  So..you need to get the word out in different ways.  Just dumping it on your sales flyer isn't really enough to alert potential customers, IMHO.

[mortismurphy]

The reason why the 2001 tour was cancelled seems disconnected from the management: Axl did not show up at the venue; there was a riot; the rest of the tour was pulled. Unless Goldstein messed up Axl's transport, I do not see how you can blame him for Axl's old tricks of, no shows and tardiness.

I would say, Guns have had a similar setlist template in place since their relaunch in 2001/02, but have played the exact same setlist since 2011 (I believe the introduction of Estranged and Civil War were the last significant changes made). It is more, the latter I disagree with. It is not a problem so long as you are playing to new markets but they have played the exact same markets. There have been two Vegas residencies with basically, the same setlist for instance. What is the sense in that?

If something is the same exact thing, doesn't it meant it's 100% identical?
How do you explain the additions songs such as The Seeker, Riff Raff, Nice Boys, There Was A Time, Prostitute, Marseilles, Catcher In The Rye and so on into the set during the years?

That is why I wrote 'basically'. Semantics. I am willing to say that the setlist has remained, 95% the same, since 2011. And no, I am not going to do the mathematics.

I know your thing. You just like to throw things around to prove your point that everything is a disaster. You don't need to take things into consideration. For example the fact that there were almost twice as many shows in Brazil in 2014 as there were in 2010. No, that does not matter. Ticket prices? Not an issue. You just wanna continue with your "they sold less tickets".

If the tour was going so horrible, why did they add MORE shows in Brazil at the end?

I never said the tour was a 'disaster' and I never said the tour was going 'horrible'. I am even willing to concede it was successful, however, in relative terms, there was a falling off of sales. Why do you ignore the more pressing concern that Guns simply, could not play an arena tour in the United States right now?

[D-GenerationX]

The reason why the 2001 tour was cancelled seems disconnected from the management: Axl did not show up at the venue; there was a riot; the rest of the tour was pulled. Unless Goldstein messed up Axl's transport, I do not see how you can blame him for Axl's old tricks of, no shows and tardiness.

I think you mean 2002.  And yes, that was 150% Axl's fault, that first show debacle.

2001 was the European tour that Doug Goldstein supposedly booked all on his own without telling Axl.  Supposedly.

[jarmo]

To be clear (and I don't know the numbers, so I'm really asking):

In 2010/2011, individual SHOWS sold out (and thus sold more tickets) than similar/same venues in 2014.

However, in 2014, they actually sold more total TICKETS, throughout the entire tour, than they did in 2010/2011, because they did more shows, in more places.

Is that right?

Some cities might have sold more tickets in 2010. But not necessarily a lot more. I think Belo Horizonte for example was a bigger show in 2014 compared to 2010. 2010 was indoors.
In 2014 there was three shows in the south of Brazil. In 2010, only one. I think the combined sales of those three is more than the one Porto Alegre show in 2010.

I don't put a lot of faith in those numbers. For obvious reasons. I don't know where they could have put over 1000 more people in Florianopolis for example. It was pretty fucking packed.

The reason why the 2001 tour was cancelled seems disconnected from the management: Axl did not show up at the venue; there was a riot; the rest of the tour was pulled. Unless Goldstein messed up Axl's transport, I do not see how you can blame him for Axl's old tricks of, no shows and tardiness.

You don't remember history or you're remembering it your own way to keep your illusions alive.
2001 European tour. Look it up. Management took responsibility for it. Yet you can not seem to blame them one bit. Because no other management except the current has made any mistakes according to you.

That is why I wrote 'basically'. Semantics. I am willing to say that the setlist has remained, 95% the same, since 2011. And no, I am not going to do the mathematics.

If we're not doing mathematics, I'd say many bands play the same setlists on tours. Three new songs isn't a lot of change.  
And they only play maybe two hours, so it seems like a big change to you! Three out of 18 songs is 1/6! :p

I never said the tour was a 'disaster' and I never said the tour was going 'horrible'. I am even willing to concede it was successful, however, in relative terms, there was a falling off of sales.

Where? What do you base it on? Facts please.
Are you aware what you are even comparing?

Why do you ignore the more pressing concern that Guns simply, could not play an arena tour in the United States right now?

I never say never because it's not really as simple as that.
Right now? No, considering we don't know if there's a third guitar player in the band.  




/jarmo

[TheBaconman]

I don't know about the United States to to much, but here in Canada there is pretty much a walmart in every town city whatever.   Best buys are usually only found in major cities.   So if it's the same there, how would they expect this album to sell to small town America?  

A good point.  Best Buys are a little more prolific in the states, I think.  But nowhere NEAR as many as there are Walmarts.  That is for sure.

Which, again, points out the failing.  With Walmart...some of the exposure to Black Ice was to customers shopping, all the time, for "other stuff".  You get a ton more foot traffic in Walmart.

That doesn't happen as much in Best Buy...you just don't get the sheer number of people, or the diversity of folks, walking through the front door (because, at BB, you're looking for something much more specific than you might be at Walmart).  So..you need to get the word out in different ways.  Just dumping it on your sales flyer isn't really enough to alert potential customers, IMHO.

Right

It was not in Axls or guns best interest to go with best buy, for all the reasons you pointed out above.  The thing that made it worth there wild was that they bought 1.5 million copies!!!   So after that is all said and done, you think best buy would try and step up there game and try and get back some of this cost    

[mortismurphy]

The reason why the 2001 tour was cancelled seems disconnected from the management: Axl did not show up at the venue; there was a riot; the rest of the tour was pulled. Unless Goldstein messed up Axl's transport, I do not see how you can blame him for Axl's old tricks of, no shows and tardiness.

I think you mean 2002.  And yes, that was 150% Axl's fault, that first show debacle.

2001 was the European tour that Doug Goldstein supposedly booked all on his own without telling Axl.  Supposedly.

Yes, sorry - 2002. I am replying to Jarmo there. Apparently I should be blaming Doug Goldstein for Axl deciding to not turn up on time?

[pilferk]

I think you mean 2002.  And yes, that was 150% Axl's fault, that first show debacle.

2001 was the European tour that Doug Goldstein supposedly booked all on his own without telling Axl.  Supposedly.

Well, it wasn't the first show of the tour...they had done a few weeks (I saw them in Hartford).  It was the show after the MSG show.

Still no idea why he no showed.  I've heard various theories, some from more informed than others, but nothing makes 100% sense.  The one that I've heard that seems the closest seems to involve a dispute with the promoter.

I'd love to hear that story, some day.

[jarmo]

HEY HEY HEY ! 

You made a good point!

Hope you enjoyed the non-existent band picture as a bonus. 


/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

I think you mean 2002.  And yes, that was 150% Axl's fault, that first show debacle.

2001 was the European tour that Doug Goldstein supposedly booked all on his own without telling Axl.  Supposedly.

Well, it wasn't the first show of the tour...they had done a few weeks (I saw them in Hartford).  It was the show after the MSG show.

Still no idea why he no showed.  I've heard various theories, some from more informed than others, but nothing makes 100% sense.  The one that I've heard that seems the closest seems to involve a dispute with the promoter.

I'd love to hear that story, some day.

No, no, the first show.  In Vancouver.

When Axl decides to take a helicopter and try to get to the venue at like 9:30 or some shit.

Totally irresponsible.

[jarmo]

I think you mean 2002.  And yes, that was 150% Axl's fault, that first show debacle.

2001 was the European tour that Doug Goldstein supposedly booked all on his own without telling Axl.  Supposedly.

Well, it wasn't the first show of the tour...they had done a few weeks (I saw them in Hartford).  It was the show after the MSG show.

Still no idea why he no showed.  I've heard various theories, some from more informed than others, but nothing makes 100% sense.  The one that I've heard that seems the closest seems to involve a dispute with the promoter.

I'd love to hear that story, some day.

2001 there was an European tour booked that got rescheduled and canceled. Management took responsibility for booking it.
mortismurphy does not remember this and does not want to blame management for it. But he's quick to attack Team Brazil for booking "pointless tours".

2002 North American tour started with a riot because the venue canceled when they thought Axl wouldn't be there. Then you had D-X's home town crowd....




/jarmo

[pilferk]

Some cities might have sold more tickets in 2010. But not necessarily a lot more. I think Belo Horizonte for example was a bigger show in 2014 compared to 2010. 2010 was indoors.
In 2014 there was three shows in the south of Brazil. In 2010, only one. I think the combined sales of those three is more than the one Porto Alegre show in 2010.

I don't put a lot of faith in those numbers. For obvious reasons. I don't know where they could have put over 1000 more people in Florianopolis for example. It was pretty fucking packed.

/jarmo

Thanks for the clarification.

That's sorta what I figured. In 2010/2011, they may have had more pairs of eyes on them at specific, individual, shows.

But in 2014, they ended up having more pairs of eyes on them IN TOTAL.

That's geographic dilution, and totally expected.  We saw it in CT when I was working a venue (in the southern part of the state) too.  If there was more than one show in NYC, or Boston, for example...or if the show in NYC or Boston was on a Fri or Sat night...we would see reduced ticket sales for "our" show on the same tour.

If there was ONLY one show in NYC/Boston, or if the NYC/Boston show was on a weeknight...we typically ended up selling much faster.

This was actually a topic we talked about, around here, during the last US GnR tour.  It seemed like there were too many shows, in way too many regionally adjacent places....and my supposition at the time was that it might effect individual show ticket sales.  No idea if it did..but...

[TheBaconman]

I think you mean 2002.  And yes, that was 150% Axl's fault, that first show debacle.

2001 was the European tour that Doug Goldstein supposedly booked all on his own without telling Axl.  Supposedly.

Well, it wasn't the first show of the tour...they had done a few weeks (I saw them in Hartford).  It was the show after the MSG show.

Still no idea why he no showed.  I've heard various theories, some from more informed than others, but nothing makes 100% sense.  The one that I've heard that seems the closest seems to involve a dispute with the promoter.

I'd love to hear that story, some day.

No, no, the first show.  In Vancouver.

When Axl decides to take a helicopter and try to get to the venue at like 9:30 or some shit.

Totally irresponsible.

You can blame Vancouver on that one.  The bums that run the arena and the nuts that live in the city that love to riot over any last thing.   Worst hockey team ever, as well.  

Def not Axl fault there.  Baconman is giving him a mulligan on that one

[D-GenerationX]

2002 North American tour started with a riot because the venue canceled when they thought Axl wouldn't be there.

Him being nowhere to be found perhaps played a role there.

Like I said, totally irresponsible.  Its the opening night of your first North American tour in 9 years.  Not the night to pull that shit.  Be the aloof recluse enigma some other night.  The first night, have your shit together.

[mortismurphy]

Bach said he once confronted Axl about the lateness at a show in Nassau Stadium in 1992. The whole place is virtually rioting. The promoters are telling Skid Row to keep playing and they only have one album out. In walks Axl as if this is the most normal thing in the word. Bach goes, ''dude, where were you?'' to which Axl replies, ''I was taking a shower''.

[D-GenerationX]

Bach said he once confronted Axl about the lateness at a show in Nassau Stadium in 1992. The whole place is virtually rioting. The promoters are telling Skid Row to keep playing and they only have one album out. In walks Axl as if this is the most normal thing in the word. Bach goes, ''dude, where were you?'' to which Axl replies, ''I was taking a shower''.

I have that bootleg, and its not a bad show.

But its started, *started*, at 12:20 AM.  Give me a fucking break. 

"Maybe I was just too bummed out to get my ass out here any earlier.  Write to Geffen Records and tell them to get out of my ass."

Super professional.

[pilferk]

No, no, the first show.  In Vancouver.

When Axl decides to take a helicopter and try to get to the venue at like 9:30 or some shit.

Totally irresponsible.

Oh...right right right...but that's not the show that ended up getting them shut down.  That was the show where he was supposedly in route, and the venue cancelled while he was in the air (and, yes, he should def have left earlier/been on site early), right?

They did a bunch of shows after that.  It was the Philly show/riot that ultimately shut things down.

[JAEBALL]

No, no, the first show.  In Vancouver.

When Axl decides to take a helicopter and try to get to the venue at like 9:30 or some shit.

Totally irresponsible.

Oh...right right right...but that's not the show that ended up getting them shut down.  That was the show where he was supposedly in route, and the venue cancelled while he was in the air (and, yes, he should def have left earlier/been on site early), right?

They did a bunch of shows after that.  It was the Philly show/riot that ultimately shut things down.

That was a real bummer.... The atmosphere at the MSG show was epic too.... My first time ever seeing Axl live.

[pilferk]

Him being nowhere to be found perhaps played a role there.

Like I said, totally irresponsible.  Its the opening night of your first North American tour in 9 years.  Not the night to pull that shit.  Be the aloof recluse enigma some other night.  The first night, have your shit together.

"No where to be found" is a bit of an exaggeration.  He was en route, in the air, and in contact with people in the band, people who run the venue, AND law enforcement on site (trying to arrange a police escort from his landing spot to the venue).  All that courtesy of Vancouver's own news reports/media reports.

The venue 100% made that decision, though.  Axl said he'd be there, he'd just be about 90 minutes late (and then...however long it took him to actually get ready to go on stage) for show time.

[pilferk]

That was a real bummer.... The atmosphere at the MSG show was epic too.... My first time ever seeing Axl live.

Agree, it was, by all reports, a GREAT show.  Like..the triumphant return, what the guns fans had hoped for when 2002 tour started, etc. Band was meshing, Axl sounded good...seemed like (sounded like?) they're hitting their groove.

And then...the next day.

[JAEBALL]

Him being nowhere to be found perhaps played a role there.

Like I said, totally irresponsible.  Its the opening night of your first North American tour in 9 years.  Not the night to pull that shit.  Be the aloof recluse enigma some other night.  The first night, have your shit together.

"No where to be found" is a bit of an exaggeration.  He was en route, in the air, and in contact with people in the band, people who run the venue, AND law enforcement on site (trying to arrange a police escort from his landing spot to the venue).  All that courtesy of Vancouver's own news reports/media reports.

The venue 100% made that decision, though.  Axl said he'd be there, he'd just be about 90 minutes late (and then...however long it took him to actually get ready to go on stage) for show time.

let's just say it was a very unfortunate night....

You would think he should have at least been in the same city somewhere near ticket time.... But the venue obviously was being difficult as well.