"Next Album" rumor / speculation thread *UPDATE AUG 22/2023*

[JAEBALL]

They are related. When an artist (i.e. Axl) hibernates, there is not a lot the retailer can do. If a band has a promo out, the retailer usually utilises the clip as part of a television advertising campaign.

And we still don't even an official group photo.  In 15 years.

That's because it's hard to fit 26 people in to one photo.  

[pilferk]

They are related. When an artist (i.e. Axl) hibernates, there is not a lot the retailer can do. If a band has a promo out, the retailer usually utilises the clip as part of a television advertising campaign.

Really? You think so?

Because I'm pretty close with someone who runs (and has run) the marketing department for a very large, entertainment (music, movies, games) focused national retailer...and they have pretty much zero contact with the artists, themselves.

They generate marketing material from the "stuff" they're given by the label, and occasionally by the bands management, yes.  But I can promise you, if there is a derth of material, they find a way (using the album cover and anything else they can get their hands on, that they can get approval for) to do their job so they can make some ducats.

Best Buy failed. If you can't see that, and assign them their portion of the blame....I don't know what to tell you except you're mistaken.

[mortismurphy]

Probably Better had the potential to be a big song. If the album was launched in 2001 or 02, I would have released Better first, followed by The Blues. I would have had music videos for both. I could see the album having more success with that strategy.

[D-GenerationX]

Axl had a hissy fit because he wanted further delays (to organise the artwork). In the end it hurt him, not financially so much because of Best Buy but in terms of how that album got short changed and is now seen as a relative failure.

Agreed.  It was a total cut off the nose to spite the face decision.

And for something he spent 10 years on, and was crucial to establishing future viability for his band.

A lot of people get all funny in the pants about Axl's supposed principled stands.  But at the expense of smart business?  Foolishness.

[pilferk]

Axl had a hissy fit because he wanted further delays (to organise the artwork). In the end it hurt him, not financially so much because of Best Buy but in terms of how that album got short changed and is now seen as a relative failure.

You surely have SOME evidence to back that up, right?

Because, other than as a conspiracy theory (and not a well sourced one), I've never seen anything to back that assumption up.

[D-GenerationX]

Probably Better had the potential to be a big song. If the album was launched in 2001 or 02, I would have released Better first, followed by The Blues. I would have had music videos for both. I could see the album having more success with that strategy.

'Better' has the strongest Axl vocals on the album.  Sounds like the Axl everyone remembers.

And it was the song that was getting the most play on the radio when the leaks happened.

[D-GenerationX]

Axl had a hissy fit because he wanted further delays (to organise the artwork). In the end it hurt him, not financially so much because of Best Buy but in terms of how that album got short changed and is now seen as a relative failure.

You surely have SOME evidence to back that up, right?

Because, other than as a conspiracy theory (and not a well sourced one), I've never seen anything to back that assumption up.

Back what up?

We were told that he has stopped communicating with the label months before release.  You dispute this?

[sofine11]

Probably Better had the potential to be a big song. If the album was launched in 2001 or 02, I would have released Better first, followed by The Blues. I would have had music videos for both. I could see the album having more success with that strategy.

Without bias, Better is one of the best rock singles if that decade.  Creative as hell, and it fucking rocks.  That breakdown...Just mean.  If it was handled correctly by the label (and promoted by the band), it would've been huge, even in 2008.  

[pilferk]

Axl had a hissy fit because he wanted further delays (to organise the artwork). In the end it hurt him, not financially so much because of Best Buy but in terms of how that album got short changed and is now seen as a relative failure.

You surely have SOME evidence to back that up, right?

Because, other than as a conspiracy theory (and not a well sourced one), I've never seen anything to back that assumption up.

Back what up?

We were told that he has stopped communicating with the label months before release.  You dispute this?

That it was somehow because of the artwork and wanting further delays......

[JAEBALL]

Probably Better had the potential to be a big song. If the album was launched in 2001 or 02, I would have released Better first, followed by The Blues. I would have had music videos for both. I could see the album having more success with that strategy.

Without bias, Better is one of the best rock singles if that decade.  Creative as hell, and it fucking rocks.  That breakdown...Just mean.  If it was handled correctly by the label (and promoted by the band), it would've been huge, even in 2008.  

I agree.

[TheBaconman]

They are related. When an artist (i.e. Axl) hibernates, there is not a lot the retailer can do. If a band has a promo out, the retailer usually utilises the clip as part of a television advertising campaign.

Really? You think so?

Because I'm pretty close with someone who runs (and has run) the marketing department for a very large, entertainment (music, movies, games) focused national retailer...and they have pretty much zero contact with the artists, themselves.

They generate marketing material from the "stuff" they're given by the label, and occasionally by the bands management, yes.  But I can promise you, if there is a derth of material, they find a way (using the album cover and anything else they can get their hands on, that they can get approval for) to do their job so they can make some ducats.

Best Buy failed. If you can't see that, and assign them their portion of the blame....I don't know what to tell you except you're mistaken.

I think the artist can hoe out of there way to help promote there work in a store.      I really don't think that was part of the best buy deal.   Or we would of heard something.  Like they never showed up for this day or didn't supply us with this video.  Etc...   Regardless best buy def dropped the ball.  But that was only one part of the game

[mortismurphy]

They are related. When an artist (i.e. Axl) hibernates, there is not a lot the retailer can do. If a band has a promo out, the retailer usually utilises the clip as part of a television advertising campaign.

Really? You think so?

Because I'm pretty close with someone who runs (and has run) the marketing department for a very large, entertainment (music, movies, games) focused national retailer...and they have pretty much zero contact with the artists, themselves.

They generate marketing material from the "stuff" they're given by the label, and occasionally by the bands management, yes.  But I can promise you, if there is a derth of material, they find a way (using the album cover and anything else they can get their hands on, that they can get approval for) to do their job so they can make some ducats.

Best Buy failed. If you can't see that, and assign them their portion of the blame....I don't know what to tell you except you're mistaken.

Mistaken about what?

I do not live in America so I was not exposed to their marketing campaign (or lack of) in 2008; I merely walked into any outlet (it was a WH Smiths as it happens) and bought the album. All I am saying is, it does not help when your artist is hibernating. If the retail campaign is not pushed, and your artist is lying in bed all day (or whatever Axl does with his time), the product will not be pushed on either front.

I do know for a fact that, commercials utilise music promos as part of their campaign. Now, what is going to look better, some generic strung together clip or the band's new promo?

[pilferk]

I think the artist can hoe out of there way to help promote there work in a store.      I really don't think that was part of the best buy deal.   Or we would of heard something.  Like they never showed up for this day or didn't supply us with this video.  Etc...   Regardless best buy def dropped the ball.  But that was only one part of the game

Agree 100% it was only one part of the game.

But to lay BB failing entirely at the feet of Axl is....not realistic.  Expecting the retailer to have their hand held, by the artist, is a very odd idea.

[TheBaconman]

I think the artist can hoe out of there way to help promote there work in a store.      I really don't think that was part of the best buy deal.   Or we would of heard something.  Like they never showed up for this day or didn't supply us with this video.  Etc...   Regardless best buy def dropped the ball.  But that was only one part of the game

Agree 100% it was only one part of the game.

But to lay BB failing entirely at the feet of Axl is....not realistic.  Expecting the retailer to have their hand held, by the artist, is a very odd idea.

Unless the retailer is doing things to harm the sale and future sale of the album.  I feel that's what happend with the best buy deal.  And mb that's when Axl should of been, enoughs enough here guys let's start promoting this album here 
Thing is mb he did try and communicate with best buy.  Mb Axl did try and help with the marketing of the album and best buy wanted nothing to do with it after the first few weeks of sales.  Mb best buy just wanted to cut there losses

[jarmo]

I still do not follow you.

I keep explaining it and you keep repeating yourself.
2001 tour was canceled. Who's fault? According to you: management. Be consistent! Even if you adored that era. Come on!
This is where your bias really shines through.

c.2012-14, you have the exact same show, being played in the exact same markets for the millionth time with little sense that an album will be delivered. I do not see any analogy between this, and 2002.

The one reason they are compared is YOU. You claim 2012-2014 was "pointless" and management's bad management.
2001 was canceled. But you refuse to say it was that management's fault. It's just amazing how much one gets attacked for and others aren't even acknowledged.

Personally, I think they've all done their jobs according to what they thought was right. Some did it better than others.

Can you not bring yourself to acknowledge the fact that some people, thought it was a 'great' album?

Oh I have no issues with what some people think of any album. Personal taste.
 You're the one with that kind of issues. Pretty much labeling everything GN'R has done in the last decade as failures.

It is minuscule!! I know where you are going here, the quality v quantity debate - and certainly, if Slash spent more time on his albums they would turn out better - but there comes a point where it simply gets absurd. Axl has still only released one album within a twenty-two year time frame.

Dead Horse.

As for jokes, where do you want me to begin. The wait for Chinese Democracy was an industry joke - Remember the Green Day thing?

Obviously you don't since it was the Offspring. A band I personally can't stand.

I would say, Guns have had a similar setlist template in place since their relaunch in 2001/02, but have played the exact same setlist since 2011 (I believe the introduction of Estranged and Civil War were the last significant changes made). It is more, the latter I disagree with. It is not a problem so long as you are playing to new markets but they have played the exact same markets. There have been two Vegas residencies with basically, the same setlist for instance. What is the sense in that?

If something is the same exact thing, doesn't it meant it's 100% identical?
How do you explain the additions songs such as The Seeker, Riff Raff, Nice Boys, There Was A Time, Prostitute, Marseilles, Catcher In The Rye and so on into the set during the years?

I did not understand you point here either. S. America sold less tickets than prior tours. Fact.

You saw it posted on Blabbermouth and you remember the exact numbers from 2011 and 2010?
Rio de Janeiro in 2011 was a fucking festival. Of course you can't cram as many people into an arena. You win! Happy now?
 

They were previously, unswerving in their support for all things, Axl, Nugnr. Fact. I do not know why you are dwelling on it - I never said the tour, 'flopped' or that a future tour there would be a 'disaster' or anything. Far more disturbing is the collapse of their United States market.

I know your thing. You just like to throw things around to prove your point that everything is a disaster. You don't need to take things into consideration. For example the fact that there were almost twice as many shows in Brazil in 2014 as there were in 2010. No, that does not matter. Ticket prices? Not an issue. You just wanna continue with your "they sold less tickets".

If the tour was going so horrible, why did they add MORE shows in Brazil at the end?


When even JAEBALL is questioning your reasons for being here, you gotta start wondering....

And we still don't even an official group photo.  In 15 years.

You're welcome.


/jarmo

[pilferk]

Mistaken about what?

I do not live in America so I was not exposed to their marketing campaign (or lack of) in 2008; I merely walked into any outlet (it was a WH Smiths as it happens) and bought the album. All I am saying is, it does not help when your artist is hibernating. If the retail campaign is not pushed, and your artist is lying in bed all day (or whatever Axl does with his time), the product will not be pushed on either front.

That assumption right there...that's incorrect.  The retail outlet usually would (or should) push their product regardless. Their direct interaction with the artist is SO minimal (if it exists at all) as to be inconsequential in their marketing campaign. Especially leading up to release...since you have no way of knowing that the artist isn't doing their own promo stuff.  

You can say that Axl being absent effected sales...fair enough.  You can't say that absence effected BB marketing...they're not related.

I do know for a fact that, commercials utilise music promos as part of their campaign. Now, what is going to look better, some generic strung together clip or the band's new promo?

Yeah, but...funnily enough...we didn't get EITHER from BB.  It wasn't a "which is better". It's....there wasn't ANYTHING...short of decent placement in their weekly sale flyer for one week and an in store standee or two, and a shelf pointer.

Walmart mostly used the Black Ice album cover and short cuts from the album as promo. They also had a picture of Angus, shirtless, on some of their in store promo material.  Since we have never heard otherwise.....either BB was never entitled to use those, or chose not to. Either of those is a failure by BB...either by not insisting it be part of the agreement, or in not using them at all.  If your business is "dumb" enough to not contractually ensure access to material you need to market your licensed product, before signing an exclusive deal like that...your business people suck.

[pilferk]

I think the artist can hoe out of there way to help promote there work in a store.      I really don't think that was part of the best buy deal.   Or we would of heard something.  Like they never showed up for this day or didn't supply us with this video.  Etc...   Regardless best buy def dropped the ball.  But that was only one part of the game

Agree 100% it was only one part of the game.

But to lay BB failing entirely at the feet of Axl is....not realistic.  Expecting the retailer to have their hand held, by the artist, is a very odd idea.

Unless the retailer is doing things to harm the sale and future sale of the album.  I feel that's what happend with the best buy deal.  And mb that's when Axl should of been, enoughs enough here guys let's start promoting this album here 
Thing is mb he did try and communicate with best buy.  Mb Axl did try and help with the marketing of the album and best buy wanted nothing to do with it after the first few weeks of sales.  Mb best buy just wanted to cut there losses

Yeah, I don't think the actively did anything to harm sales.  But it was like they thought CD was the field of dreams.....put it on the shelves and they will come (and buy it). 'Cause that's about all they did.  For a "normal" album...you know...that might be a bit more expected.  But you'd assume that BB signed the exclusive contract because they saw value in it, and thought they could sell a bunch of copies.

For a product like that, like Walmart did with Black Ice, you'd expect them to step up their game.

[pilferk]

I know your thing. You just like to throw things around to prove your point that everything is a disaster. You don't need to take things into consideration. For example the fact that there were almost twice as many shows in Brazil in 2014 as there were in 2010. No, that does not matter. Ticket prices? Not an issue. You just wanna continue with your "they sold less tickets".

If the tour was going so horrible, why did they add MORE shows in Brazil at the end?

/jarmo

To be clear (and I don't know the numbers, so I'm really asking):

In 2010/2011, individual SHOWS sold out (and thus sold more tickets) than similar/same venues in 2014.

However, in 2014, they actually sold more total TICKETS, throughout the entire tour, than they did in 2010/2011, because they did more shows, in more places.

Is that right?

[TheBaconman]

I think the artist can hoe out of there way to help promote there work in a store.      I really don't think that was part of the best buy deal.   Or we would of heard something.  Like they never showed up for this day or didn't supply us with this video.  Etc...   Regardless best buy def dropped the ball.  But that was only one part of the game

Agree 100% it was only one part of the game.

But to lay BB failing entirely at the feet of Axl is....not realistic.  Expecting the retailer to have their hand held, by the artist, is a very odd idea.

Unless the retailer is doing things to harm the sale and future sale of the album.  I feel that's what happend with the best buy deal.  And mb that's when Axl should of been, enoughs enough here guys let's start promoting this album here 
Thing is mb he did try and communicate with best buy.  Mb Axl did try and help with the marketing of the album and best buy wanted nothing to do with it after the first few weeks of sales.  Mb best buy just wanted to cut there losses

Yeah, I don't think the actively did anything to harm sales.  But it was like they thought CD was the field of dreams.....put it on the shelves and they will come (and buy it). 'Cause that's about all they did.  For a "normal" album...you know...that might be a bit more expected.  But you'd assume that BB signed the exclusive contract because they saw value in it, and thought they could sell a bunch of copies.

For a product like that, like Walmart did with Black Ice, you'd expect them to step up their game.

I don't know about the United States to to much, but here in Canada there is pretty much a walmart in every town city whatever.   Best buys are usually only found in major cities.   So if it's the same there, how would they expect this album to sell to small town America?  

[JAEBALL]

When even JAEBALL is questioning your reasons for being here, you gotta start wondering....

And we still don't even an official group photo.  In 15 years.

You're welcome.


/jarmo


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