"Next Album" rumor / speculation thread *UPDATE AUG 22/2023*

[sofine11]

Could we please go back to the subject? "Next Album" rumor / speculation thread"

So, anything new here? We still have no concrete rumors about the album title, subject etc for the next album?

Nope.

I hope it's not called Chinese Democracy 2...but because I have never heard of a different rumored title... leads me to believe it probably will be Chinese Democracy 2

I've often wondered what the title to the next album is going to be.  I think "Chinese Democracy II" is just the title fans gave it, since, per Axl, it's going to be the "second half" of Chinese.  If there is a different title, I would imagine only Axl knows at this point.  And he's probably known for a good while.

[D-GenerationX]

I know you're using this as sarcasm.....but he's not wrong. All things considered, it hard to argue that walmart didnt't do a better job.

They most assuredly did, by any objective measure. Was that the only reason? Prolly not...but it didnt hurt (or did, in the case of gnr).

Theres lots of blame to go around, here. Axl surely bares a share...but i dont think you can lay it all at his feet, either. Not if you are being honest....

I wouldn't say Best Buy did bang up job, no.

But in the next breath I'd have to ask what exactly they could really do with no cooperation from the artist.  Most artists, blessed with that sort of sweetheart deal, they are asking what they can do.  Its common sense.  They want to see their work succeed.  Let's get this done.

But, artist goes on walkabout...what are you supposed to do?  Are you really super motivated to do a bunch a shit the artist himself seems to give no fucks about?  Best Buy is a business too.

[D-GenerationX]

I've often wondered what the title to the next album is going to be.  I think "Chinese Democracy II" is just the title fans gave it, since, per Axl, it's going to be the "second half" of Chinese.  If there is a different title, I would imagine only Axl knows at this point.  And he's probably known for a good while.

I actually thought 'Legend Of The Red Panda' was a cool title.

[mortismurphy]

You're quick to criticize the current, but then when something went wrong, you're quick to point fingers in the other direction. You've found your scapegoats.
How about the 2001 tour that never happened? Are you finally gonna admit that other managers have booked tours you don't agree with?

I still do not follow you. 2002 was Axl's first tour in nine years, nu-gnr's first ever tour, and people's first look at the new material. It was inherently, a 'new' show on all accounts, carrying with it a sense of event and mystique. Further, we all thought Chinese would follow soon. If you want me to credit the management for it, which I believe was Goldstein, then sure, I am happy to go along with that.

Thanks you Doug haha.

c.2012-14, you have the exact same show, being played in the exact same markets for the millionth time with little sense that an album will be delivered. I do not see any analogy between this, and 2002.

Slander, the kind of personal attacks based on hearsay that you posted which have zero to do with the discussion at hand.

I honestly do not know what you are going on about.

It was a combination of many things. "Here's something totally new" or "Here's more of the same you've liked in the past". Which is people more likely to go for?

Can you not bring yourself to acknowledge the fact that some people, thought it was a 'great' album?

Care to show some references to this so called joke? As far as I know, that discography is one of the most valuable ones the record company has. If you're after quantity, then that's your opinion...

It is minuscule!! I know where you are going here, the quality v quantity debate - and certainly, if Slash spent more time on his albums they would turn out better - but there comes a point where it simply gets absurd. Axl has still only released one album within a twenty-two year time frame. As for jokes, where do you want me to begin. The wait for Chinese Democracy was an industry joke - Remember the Green Day thing?

Because of the new songs they choose to play in 2006, didn't you claim that the 2010 show was the same as 2006?
And if they hadn't played those new songs in 2006, then what? You guessed it. You could always say that those shows were the same as the 2002 shows!
See? Your way of thinking will always be right about something. You can't be pleased. 

I would say, Guns have had a similar setlist template in place since their relaunch in 2001/02, but have played the exact same setlist since 2011 (I believe the introduction of Estranged and Civil War were the last significant changes made). It is more, the latter I disagree with. It is not a problem so long as you are playing to new markets but they have played the exact same markets. There have been two Vegas residencies with basically, the same setlist for instance. What is the sense in that?

How about South America? I'm sorry to keep asking but since you're not acknowledging it anymore I assume you got it but just making sure that there's no need to clarify.

I did not understand you point here either. S. America sold less tickets than prior tours. Fact. They were previously, unswerving in their support for all things, Axl, Nugnr. Fact. I do not know why you are dwelling on it - I never said the tour, 'flopped' or that a future tour there would be a 'disaster' or anything. Far more disturbing is the collapse of their United States market.

[pilferk]

Just keep in mind, we got an announcement about CD's release (via Billboard story and then presser) in early Oct 2008, with a late November release date.

We might get rumors, etc, leading up to that (we usually do). But I wouldn't expect an announcement way out in front of actual release.

[TheBaconman]

I know you're using this as sarcasm.....but he's not wrong. All things considered, it hard to argue that walmart didnt't do a better job.

They most assuredly did, by any objective measure. Was that the only reason? Prolly not...but it didnt hurt (or did, in the case of gnr).

Theres lots of blame to go around, here. Axl surely bares a share...but i dont think you can lay it all at his feet, either. Not if you are being honest....

I wouldn't say Best Buy did bang up job, no.

But in the next breath I'd have to ask what exactly they could really do with no cooperation from the artist.  Most artists, blessed with that sort of sweetheart deal, they are asking what they can do.  Its common sense.  They want to see their work succeed.  Let's get this done.

But, artist goes on walkabout...what are you supposed to do?  Are you really super motivated to do a bunch a shit the artist himself seems to give no fucks about?  Best Buy is a business too.

What was Axls marketing plan with Best Buy supposed to be?  You really think he would of been in the local best buy signing copies of the album for every geek off the street?

I don't think the band or Axl should of really had any involvement in the best buy marketing plan.  That should of been all on them.  (Best buy).   What was there plan anyways?   What was there planned involvement from the band?    

People like to compare the best buy deal to the walmart deal with ac/dc.  what did ac/doc do to work with Walmart?   What did angus do?    Nothing from what I remember.   From what I remember I walked through Walmart and saw a display for black ice.   Same as if I walked through best buy.  

Now I think best buy could of marketed the shit out off this album, but I think after it didn't reach number 1 after the first week and didn't sell a million copies like black ice did in its first week.  They just cut there marketing loses on it

[mortismurphy]

They were doing interviews, televised and written, and there were music promos.

[pilferk]

I know you're using this as sarcasm.....but he's not wrong. All things considered, it hard to argue that walmart didnt't do a better job.

They most assuredly did, by any objective measure. Was that the only reason? Prolly not...but it didnt hurt (or did, in the case of gnr).

Theres lots of blame to go around, here. Axl surely bares a share...but i dont think you can lay it all at his feet, either. Not if you are being honest....

I wouldn't say Best Buy did bang up job, no.

But in the next breath I'd have to ask what exactly they could really do with no cooperation from the artist.  Most artists, blessed with that sort of sweetheart deal, they are asking what they can do.  Its common sense.  They want to see their work succeed.  Let's get this done.

But, artist goes on walkabout...what are you supposed to do?  Are you really super motivated to do a bunch a shit the artist himself seems to give no fucks about?  Best Buy is a business too.

Like I said...Axl bears a share of the blame, too.

We've gone down this road, though, previously.  I think Azoff's level of "checked-out-ness", considering the stuff going on with TM and Livenation around that time, was easily as much of a factor as anything else.

But...to answer your question above: More than they did.  You just shelled out for an exclusive release, what amounted to an "urban legend" made real, and you do....not much.

OUTSIDE of what AC/DC did in support, look at how Walmart pushed Black Ice as an exclusive. TV, print, media ads all over gods green earth.  Shelf placers, standees, and actual BANNERS basically shouting about it in store. Prime placement around the registers to fuel impulse buys. Every TV in the electronics section was running Black Ice related promos in their loop when on demo mode. Our store (and this could be unique) even ran an AC/DC:Live Rock band contest and the top players won copies of the album. But they were pushing the Rock band track pack, too. HUGE. There was no earthly way you could NOT know that album (or the track pack) was out, and where to buy it.

Can you honestly say the same thing about Best Buy? I don't think you can.

[TheBaconman]

They were doing interviews, televised and written, and there were music promos.

What are we talking about here.   What ac/dc did to promote black ice?   Or walmart?

I think guns dropped the ball totally on not doing any promo work, interviews etc.  but that has nothing to do with the best buy deal.   Unless they were supposed to be in commercials for best buy

Was ac/dc in commercials for Walmart?   Was angus on tv saying come on down to your local walmart and buy my latest album mate.  Or where they just during normal interviews that most normal bands do to promote there product

[TheBaconman]

I know you're using this as sarcasm.....but he's not wrong. All things considered, it hard to argue that walmart didnt't do a better job.

They most assuredly did, by any objective measure. Was that the only reason? Prolly not...but it didnt hurt (or did, in the case of gnr).

Theres lots of blame to go around, here. Axl surely bares a share...but i dont think you can lay it all at his feet, either. Not if you are being honest....

I wouldn't say Best Buy did bang up job, no.

But in the next breath I'd have to ask what exactly they could really do with no cooperation from the artist.  Most artists, blessed with that sort of sweetheart deal, they are asking what they can do.  Its common sense.  They want to see their work succeed.  Let's get this done.

But, artist goes on walkabout...what are you supposed to do?  Are you really super motivated to do a bunch a shit the artist himself seems to give no fucks about?  Best Buy is a business too.

Like I said...Axl bears a share of the blame, too.

We've gone down this road, though, previously.  I think Azoff's level of "checked-out-ness", considering the stuff going on with TM and Livenation around that time, was easily as much of a factor as anything else.

But...to answer your question above: More than they did.  You just shelled out for an exclusive release, what amounted to an "urban legend" made real, and you do....not much.

OUTSIDE of what AC/DC did in support, look at how Walmart pushed Black Ice as an exclusive. TV, print, media ads all over gods green earth.  Shelf placers, standees, and actual BANNERS basically shouting about it in store. Prime placement around the registers to fuel impulse buys. Every TV in the electronics section was running Black Ice related promos in their loop when on demo mode. Our store (and this could be unique) even ran an AC/DC:Live Rock band contest and the top players won copies of the album. But they were pushing the Rock band track pack, too. HUGE. There was no earthly way you could NOT know that album (or the track pack) was out, and where to buy it.

Can you honestly say the same thing about Best Buy? I don't think you can.

Walmart did it perfectly.   

Best Buy screwed it up as best as anyone could

One album sold roughly 1 million the first week.  The other sold roughly 300 thousand

Store marketing was a huge factor

Guns still got a great deal though. It's not like best buy was allowed to return the 1.5 million copies of the album it bought.   So no matter how you look at it, the album sold, it was a hit.

[D-GenerationX]

I think guns dropped the ball totally on not doing any promo work, interviews etc.  but that has nothing to do with the best buy deal.   Unless they were supposed to be in commercials for best buy

Was ac/dc in commercials for Walmart?   Was angus on tv saying come on down to your local walmart and buy my latest album mate.  Or where they just during normal interviews that most normal bands do to promote there product

Exactly.  No other band on that level would have handled this the way GNR did.  Not one.

And that's just a regular album.  Let alone one you spent 10 freakin' years on.  And was an effort to relaunch your band and set up a productive future.  Can you even fathom having to twist an artist's arm to help out?

Let's make you Best Buy.  Are you super excited to shell out all sorts of marketing costs and associated expenses when the artist's own label tell them he stopped talking to them some months prior?

[mortismurphy]

They were doing interviews, televised and written, and there were music promos.

What are we talking about here.   What ac/dc did to promote black ice?   Or walmart?

I think guns dropped the ball totally on not doing any promo work, interviews etc.  but that has nothing to do with the best buy deal.   Unless they were supposed to be in commercials for best buy

Was ac/dc in commercials for Walmart?   Was angus on tv saying come on down to your local walmart and buy my latest album mate.  Or where they just during normal interviews that most normal bands do to promote there product

They are related. When an artist (i.e. Axl) hibernates, there is not a lot the retailer can do. If a band has a promo out, the retailer usually utilises the clip as part of a television advertising campaign.

[D-GenerationX]

Guns still got a great deal though. It's not like best buy was allowed to return the 1.5 million copies of the album it bought.   So no matter how you look at it, the album sold, it was a hit.

I would say yes to the first, no to the second.

In strict numbers terms, the fact the store had to buy the copies means it sold.  No question.

But a hit?  Nah.  The album made no impact on the marketplace.  Not one memorable song or anything that will be attached to the legacy of the band in the eyes of the masses.

[D-GenerationX]

They are related. When an artist (i.e. Axl) hibernates, there is not a lot the retailer can do. If a band has a promo out, the retailer usually utilises the clip as part of a television advertising campaign.

And we still don't even an official group photo.  In 15 years.

[pilferk]

They were doing interviews, televised and written, and there were music promos.

What are we talking about here.   What ac/dc did to promote black ice?   Or walmart?

I think guns dropped the ball totally on not doing any promo work, interviews etc.  but that has nothing to do with the best buy deal.   Unless they were supposed to be in commercials for best buy

Was ac/dc in commercials for Walmart?   Was angus on tv saying come on down to your local walmart and buy my latest album mate.  Or where they just during normal interviews that most normal bands do to promote there product

You and I are on the same page, I think.

I just can't get to the point where I buy into "Everything...every wrong, every mistake, everyTHING...is Axl's fault" bent.  I just can't.

There's too many other moving parts that, pretty obviously, were not functioning quite right.

Does Axl share some of the blame? Absolutely.

Is it the lions share? I'm not so sure. I'm really not.

Because Azoff was negotiating with TM and LN, and, by the looks of things, was "absent" (and, before anyone starts in with the "underlings" thing....nope, sorry...I don't buy it), I don't think communication was firing on all cylinders. I'm not sure it was firing on ONE.  And Axl's post release lawsuit, and some of the discovery filed there (and what you can see of Azoff with some cursory digging), seems to bear that out.

Band management is the primary point of contact with the artist for pretty much everyone. Label, promoters, whatever. That's the way it works.

Does that mean Axl, when maybe he wasn't getting the kind of feedback or contact he expected, should have spoken up (if, indeed, that's what happened)? Sure.

[mortismurphy]

Axl had a hissy fit because he wanted further delays (to organise the artwork). In the end it hurt him, not financially so much because of Best Buy but in terms of how that album got short changed and is now seen as a relative failure.

[TheBaconman]

Guns still got a great deal though. It's not like best buy was allowed to return the 1.5 million copies of the album it bought.   So no matter how you look at it, the album sold, it was a hit.

I would say yes to the first, no to the second.

In strict numbers terms, the fact the store had to buy the copies means it sold.  No question.

But a hit?  Nah.  The album made no impact on the marketplace.  Not one memorable song or anything that will be attached to the legacy of the band in the eyes of the masses.

I still think it was a hit though.  It sold very good all over the world.   But regardless I don't want to get into that debate again

What I will give you though is that it made no impact on the unwashed masses and also produced no hits

No hits!!!   That cd line up of artists who wrote and recorded on the album is probably the strongest group of musicians this band has ever seen or may ever will seen   Great great players.   But they can't write a hit song!   In the 80s some kids that were pretty much drug addicts and drunks, wrote some of the greatest hit music this planet will ever hear.   Figure that one

[TheBaconman]

They were doing interviews, televised and written, and there were music promos.

What are we talking about here.   What ac/dc did to promote black ice?   Or walmart?

I think guns dropped the ball totally on not doing any promo work, interviews etc.  but that has nothing to do with the best buy deal.   Unless they were supposed to be in commercials for best buy

Was ac/dc in commercials for Walmart?   Was angus on tv saying come on down to your local walmart and buy my latest album mate.  Or where they just during normal interviews that most normal bands do to promote there product

They are related. When an artist (i.e. Axl) hibernates, there is not a lot the retailer can do. If a band has a promo out, the retailer usually utilises the clip as part of a television advertising campaign.

I agree with this

[sofine11]

I've often wondered what the title to the next album is going to be.  I think "Chinese Democracy II" is just the title fans gave it, since, per Axl, it's going to be the "second half" of Chinese.  If there is a different title, I would imagine only Axl knows at this point.  And he's probably known for a good while.

I actually thought 'Legend Of The Red Panda' was a cool title.

It's certainly memorable!  I was always partial to calling the next  album "The General".  

But who am I kidding, he could call it "Poop" and I'd still buy 12 copies.  

[D-GenerationX]

I just can't get to the point where I buy into "Everything...every wrong, every mistake, everyTHING...is Axl's fault" bent.  I just can't.

Is it the lions share? I'm not so sure. I'm really not.

I wouldn't say everything was his fault.  But I continue to be mystified by the pass he's given.  

Yes, things got fucked up.  if your options are to just be mad, or take the wheel and see what you can do...you decide to be mad?  Who is that helping?