"Next Album" rumor / speculation thread *UPDATE AUG 22/2023*

[JAEBALL]

Constructed from Duff's book...like we made an illogical conclusion because we hate management?  Didn't he expressly say this?  It's not constructed, it's his words.  Now, does he hate management?  Is he lying?  Why would Duff say that?

The notion that they actively were trying to make sure Duff and Axl wouldn't meet. That part is constructed. Nowhere in Duff's book did he claim there was some kind of evil plan to make it impossible for them to meet. This all comes from people like yourself.

Duff wrote: ?You can?t go in right now, man,? said one. ?He?s about to get in the shower to get ready for the show tonight.?
You: "and that there is the appearance that they try to insulate him from people (when they tried to turn Duff away in London,"

So yeah, it does seem like you failed to see the simple most reasonable explanation for what he wrote, and instead let your imagination colored by dislike for these people run wild.

Did you discredit what I said? Not one bit.

/jarmo

You forgot the ?People from his entourage stopped me in the hallway? and how, only when Axl heard him, he was let in.  You also left out the Slash story too.  Please tell me how I got that one wrong, too.

I believe in the when there is smoke there is fire theory... No you cant believe whatever you read about people. Too many times tho, I have read they shield Axl from anything they believe can be a negative for him/them. Which results in Axl looking bad.

Yeah, Beta's handling of Axl does appear to be fairly stifling.  She's just ALWAYS THERE. Always struck me as strange.  I mean, I get that she's a mother figure to him, but wouldn't it drive any grown adult nuts to have their mom there deciding who has access to you during nearly every public moment?

And I'm far from a reunionist, but I've always wondered if Beta even made Axl aware that Slash wanted to speak with him back in 2005 when he drove to Axl's house, until after the fact.  Maybe I have too much faith in people, but I just cannot see Axl outright refusing to see an old friend standing at his door wanting to make peace.  Who knows?

And we will never know ! haha

But i hear ya... if my mortal enemy showed up at 5 in the morning after not hearing from her for X amount of years... I'd be too curious to hear what she had to say.

[sofine11]

Constructed from Duff's book...like we made an illogical conclusion because we hate management?  Didn't he expressly say this?  It's not constructed, it's his words.  Now, does he hate management?  Is he lying?  Why would Duff say that?

The notion that they actively were trying to make sure Duff and Axl wouldn't meet. That part is constructed. Nowhere in Duff's book did he claim there was some kind of evil plan to make it impossible for them to meet. This all comes from people like yourself.

Duff wrote: ?You can?t go in right now, man,? said one. ?He?s about to get in the shower to get ready for the show tonight.?
You: "and that there is the appearance that they try to insulate him from people (when they tried to turn Duff away in London,"

So yeah, it does seem like you failed to see the simple most reasonable explanation for what he wrote, and instead let your imagination colored by dislike for these people run wild.

Did you discredit what I said? Not one bit.

/jarmo

You forgot the ?People from his entourage stopped me in the hallway? and how, only when Axl heard him, he was let in.  You also left out the Slash story too.  Please tell me how I got that one wrong, too.

I believe in the when there is smoke there is fire theory... No you cant believe whatever you read about people. Too many times tho, I have read they shield Axl from anything they believe can be a negative for him/them. Which results in Axl looking bad.

Yeah, Beta's handling of Axl does appear to be fairly stifling.  She's just ALWAYS THERE. Always struck me as strange.  I mean, I get that she's a mother figure to him, but wouldn't it drive any grown adult nuts to have their mom there deciding who has access to you during nearly every public moment?

And I'm far from a reunionist, but I've always wondered if Beta even made Axl aware that Slash wanted to speak with him back in 2005 when he drove to Axl's house, until after the fact.  Maybe I have too much faith in people, but I just cannot see Axl outright refusing to see an old friend standing at his door wanting to make peace.  Who knows?

And we will never know ! haha

But i hear ya... if my mortal enemy showed up at 5 in the morning after not hearing from her for X amount of years... I'd be too curious to hear what she had to say.

If I had to guess, I would imagine that, no, Beta did not tell Axl Slash was there until after he left. We'll never know for sure, unless Axl drops a book one day and mentions it.  But from what Slash said about having to leave a note with her, it's kind of obvious what happened there. 

We know that Beta has zero love for Slash, but we can only speculate as to what her end game is as far as keeping him as far away from Axl as possible goes...

[jarmo]

Yeah, Beta's handling of Axl does appear to be fairly stifling.  She's just ALWAYS THERE. Always struck me as strange.  I mean, I get that she's a mother figure to him, but wouldn't it drive any grown adult nuts to have their mom there deciding who has access to you during nearly every public moment?

This is once again you assuming.

You don't like her, so you look for more reasons to not. Even if they are absurd as the ones you list.


It really is amazing how some of you dislike them so much that you'll make up any shit you can to validate your dislike (or hatred).
Certain fans idolize past managers who've done less for the fans while continue to spew this vile bullshit about people you never had any encounters with.


Again, I've yet to see somebody with some knowledge point out why what I said about the Duff/Axl meeting in 2010 is absurd. All I see are the "they hate the fans and are trying to keep the old band members away from Axl" brigade out in full force repeating their silly bullshit.

Nobody likes to be told they're wrong, but come on! For such a bunch of open minded, educated, well informed, positive, supportive fans, you sure don't seem to act like it when it comes to this particular subject.



/jarmo

[mortismurphy]

9 shows, we get it!! I mentioned S. America to make the rhetorical point that, hitherto a 100% sold out territory for the band, had seen a ticket reduction. Do you refute this fact?

Also, since you seem to know so much. Do you know why a band would tour? To sell more copies of their albums? Is it possible it's all tied together? Without tours, there's no new music? Possible? Tour income is invested into the music? Yes? No? Is it pointless to tour if you knew that the money made is spent on making sure there's a future release? And shows?

This is preciously my point. A good manager knows, when a record has maximised itself, reached its finite potential. I think it is fair to say that the Chinese Democracy thing ran its course years ago (if it ran at all, as the record was not successful); nobody attending these shows is going to suddenly go, ''I must buy their latest album''. For a start, most of the Vegas crowds at least are uber casuals. Secondly, the more zealous fans attending these shows presumably have already bought their copy, back in 2008. Thirdly, the share of Chinese material has dropped in ratio to covers and old band songs.

Honestly, I don't get this complaining about the shows. There's a bunch of bands that can't play as much as they would love to. It's how it is these days. Yet some GN'R fans are unhappy that GN'R is in a position to play pretty much anywhere on the planet at any time.

Next time a band comes into town might be the last. Promoters don't book shows if they don't think they'll make money. So the idea of boycotting shows means you might never get to see that particular band in your area again.



/jarmo

True, but it is a competitive playing field and there are a lot of bands with new releases out, who also offer different shows (tour by tour). If I have a limited amount of time and money, and I look across the list of favourite bands playing during a given period, I am going to ask myself, should I pay for largely the exact same Guns N' Roses show as I saw in 2006 or 2012, or should I put the money on a band with an exiting new release out and a variable setlist? Most people are not, just fans of Axl and nu gnr, like you and a few others here. Most people have a few bands they love, and therefore, are forced to make these same sorts of decisions every year (when a few major bands hit their towns). New guns shows are no longer, 'an event'. You can predict the setlist before the tour has even began. That is because they have over-saturated the market with the exact same show.

[jarmo]

9 shows, we get it!! I mentioned S. America to make the rhetorical point that, hitherto a 100% sold out territory for the band, had seen a ticket reduction. Do you refute this fact?

Ticket reduction compared to what? All tours in South America have been successful. Maybe you were expecting all shows to be sold out, just like you actually believe Axl was trying to make the greatest album of all times.

Before the shows in Brazil last year, a certain local fan site there posted about how the shows wouldn't sell at all because they thought the ticket prices were too high. Turns out, the shows weren't empty like they predicted....

This is preciously my point. A good manager knows, when a record has maximised itself, reached its finite potential.

Ok. So you're saying the managers before who booked the 2001, 2002, 2006 and 2007 shows were wrong. Got it.
According to you, they made mistakes. Suddenly it's not about current management.

They toured Use Your Illusion for two years. Hardly sold a lot more albums by visiting the UK for a third time in 1993 did they? Oh and played smaller venues in the USA than they did with Metallica in 1992. Bad management?

I think it is fair to say that the Chinese Democracy thing ran its course years ago (if it ran at all, as the record was not successful); nobody attending these shows is going to suddenly go, ''I must buy their latest album''. For a start, most of the Vegas crowds at least are uber casuals. Secondly, the more zealous fans attending these shows presumably have already bought their copy, back in 2008. Thirdly, the share of Chinese material has dropped in ratio to covers and old band songs.

You go on like this because you didn't get it.
I made a point that the tours weren't booked only to sell more albums. Nobody buys albums anyway! I'm sure you knew that already.

True, but it is a competitive playing field and there are a lot of bands with new releases out, who also offer different shows (tour by tour). If I have a limited amount of time and money, and I look across the list of favourite bands playing during a given period, I am going to ask myself, should I pay for largely the exact same Guns N' Roses show as I saw in 2006 or 2012, or should I put the money on a band with an exiting new release out and a variable setlist? Most people are not, just fans of Axl and nu gnr, like you and a few others here. Most people have a few bands they love, and therefore, are forced to make these same sorts of decisions every year (when a few major bands hit their towns). New guns shows are no longer, 'an event'. You can predict the setlist before the tour has even began. That is because they have over-saturated the market with the exact same show.

Many bands who go out on our play three of four new songs, the rest is the same old. Do fans complain? No.
There's no guarantee that X amount of new songs means you'll get Y amount of them into the set. No guarantees at all!

You just assume so.


Why'd you ignore the part about bands touring so they can invest that money into their next album(s) and tour(s)? That's how they make money.
And it's still pointless? Amazing....




/jarmo

[damnthehaters]

This is preciously my point. A good manager knows, when a record has maximised itself, reached its finite potential. I think it is fair to say that the Chinese Democracy thing ran its course years ago (if it ran at all, as the record was not successful); nobody attending these shows is going to suddenly go, ''I must buy their latest album''. For a start, most of the Vegas crowds at least are uber casuals. Secondly, the more zealous fans attending these shows presumably have already bought their copy, back in 2008. Thirdly, the share of Chinese material has dropped in ratio to covers and old band songs.

[/quote]

Explain to me how Chinese was NOT successful? 

[jarmo]

Explain to me how Chinese was NOT successful? 

Because he says so!

Duh! 


/jarmo

[Ginger King]

Yeah, Beta's handling of Axl does appear to be fairly stifling.  She's just ALWAYS THERE. Always struck me as strange.  I mean, I get that she's a mother figure to him, but wouldn't it drive any grown adult nuts to have their mom there deciding who has access to you during nearly every public moment?

This is once again you assuming.

You don't like her, so you look for more reasons to not. Even if they are absurd as the ones you list.


It really is amazing how some of you dislike them so much that you'll make up any shit you can to validate your dislike (or hatred).
Certain fans idolize past managers who've done less for the fans while continue to spew this vile bullshit about people you never had any encounters with.


Again, I've yet to see somebody with some knowledge point out why what I said about the Duff/Axl meeting in 2010 is absurd. All I see are the "they hate the fans and are trying to keep the old band members away from Axl" brigade out in full force repeating their silly bullshit.

Nobody likes to be told they're wrong, but come on! For such a bunch of open minded, educated, well informed, positive, supportive fans, you sure don't seem to act like it when it comes to this particular subject.



/jarmo

I didn?t say you?re absurd, but it?s your opinion (not fact) that they weren?t trying to block him (it is a fact ? according to Duff ? that he was not getting into the shower).  So then why did they say that? 

It?s my opinion (not fact) that this management has, at times, shielded him from having to deal with anything that they may think would put him in a bad mood. 

It?s your opinion (not fact) that anyone that questions the actions of management dislikes them. 

It?s my opinion (not fact) that your 100% on board or bust outlook is absurd.  It is possible for people to question the actions of others without hating them.

[Limulus]

The Duff/Axl thing is......yep, they wanted to "protect" him (again) to keep things rolling, meaning its show time and making sure nothing else unexpected has to come in between shower and show time, because Axl doesnt seem to like interruptions and/or has trouble in dealing with them properly in human time zones (delaying, blocking, ranting...the list goes on and on). On this course it'd be reasonable trying to keep Duff away from him. But this course also means "No go-area" for him, thats the reverse of the protecting coin.

[jarmo]

but it’s your opinion (not fact) that they weren’t trying to block him (it is a fact – according to Duff – that he was not getting into the shower).  So then why did they say that? 

I'll explain.
Axl is getting ready to go to the venue. He's in his room, the bathroom is also in his room. That's where the shower is located. Part of him getting ready involves taking a shower, getting dressed and so on.
The others are outside. They don't need to be in the room with him. Duff walks over in the hallway and he's told "Axl's getting ready, he's in the shower". They don't necessarily know if he's in the shower at that exact moment since they're not there checking. But since part of the getting ready routine involves a shower, he might be in there!

I don't know if i need to explain it more to you?

It wasn't a Duff thing. I bet the same would've been said for anybody. "This isn't the best time, he's getting ready".


When you say "I'll take a shower", you might do other things so you don't necessarily spend all that time between "I'll take a shower" and until you're back in the shower. It's pretty basic stuff.

Once again, the simple fact that they wanted Axl to get to the venue to do the show is ignored because it makes more "sense" to you to think they didn't want Duff to meet Axl. Instead of you congratulating them on doing their job (!), here you are going on and on about the assumption that there was some kind of blocking going on.

Imagine if Axl and Duff got stuck at the hotel talking for a few hours. I would've loved to have seen you defend that while complaining about the late start of the show..... 



So which part of this makes less sense than "They didn't want Duff to meet Axl"?

It’s my opinion (not fact) that your 100% on board or bust outlook is absurd.  It is possible for people to question the actions of others without hating them.

Some of the questioning is weird. Common sense is disregarded just because it doesn't ft the "they are trying to stop Duff from meeting Axl" agenda.

Almost as funny as the person who keeps insisting that since something wasn't written in Duff's book, it didn't happen. Dinners were being enjoyed without any talking. Weird assumption....




/jarmo

[JAEBALL]

It's like politics around here... I think people from both extremes should try better to meet in the middle on a lot of these discussions, which of course won't happen.

I have never met Beta or her son. Most of us have not. Hence, I certainly don't hate her, like it's being suggested some posters do. I just question if their direct involvement in GNR affairs is best for GNR.


To me, just because Axl thinks it's best they manage ALL of his affairs, doesn't mean it is. Jarmo I am sure you disagree with that! : ) but that's OK , like you said we are all not on equal footing LOL



Credit to them for the UCAP tour and finally getting the DVD out... See.. credit when credit is due.

[LongGoneDay]

In TB?s defense, no one has found much success in getting consistent production out of Axl Rose over the last 24 years.
Safe to say that management isn?t the root of the problem.

[JAEBALL]

In TB?s defense, no one has found much success in getting consistent production out of Axl Rose over the last 24 years.
Safe to say that management isn?t the root of the problem.

SO TRUE.....

But they made themselves public figures to a certain extent... they are open to criticism rightly or wrongly...

[jarmo]

I certainly don't hate her, like it's being suggested some posters do. I just question if their direct involvement in GNR affairs is best for GNR.

Makes you wonder why people always assume the worst about people they never met?
Did people post this kind of shit about former managers? I bet not. I think these same people all believed the past managers were there to do what was best for Axl. And the fans.
Yet, he felt differently and that's why they're gone.

Current management gets attacked for things that aren't unique for the present. But I don't see people posting about what a mistake and bad idea the 1993 tour was.

To me, just because Axl thinks it's best they manage ALL of his affairs, doesn't mean it is. Jarmo I am sure you disagree with that! : ) but that's OK , like you said we are all not on equal footing LOL

Yes I do disagree because if you think like that, you basically think that you know what's best for somebody else's life. It's kinda creepy in a way. Especially when you don't know the person(s).

It's a bit different if it's your family and you tell them "Oh, I don't think this smoking crack thing is a good idea".

Credit to them for the UCAP tour and finally getting the DVD out... See.. credit when credit is due.

Nice.
Now if only it wasn't that difficult...  Maybe next time we don't have to go on and on for pages before you can type something similar. * fingers crossed *



/jarmo

[JAEBALL]

Nice.
Now if only it wasn't that difficult...  Maybe next time we don't have to go on and on for pages before you can type something similar. * fingers crossed *



/jarmo


[/quote]

I respond to what's presented... There are posters here who continue on and on about the same gripes and it annoys me too, even if I agree with some of it...

I don't expect you to bite the hand that feeds, but like I said they are public figures, and are "in charge" of something that means a lot of different things to a lot of people, so they are going to be questioned regardless if you think it's right or not.

If you ask why I wont question the management in 1993.... well I was pretty happy with the output I had received up till that time...

[JAEBALL]

Also I have seen you say that there are posters who were happy with Azoff or Merk or some other manager during the CD era...

I haven't seen that... Were they and have they not been blasted at times too?

[Ginger King]

I certainly don't hate her, like it's being suggested some posters do. I just question if their direct involvement in GNR affairs is best for GNR.

Makes you wonder why people always assume the worst about people they never met?
Did people post this kind of shit about former managers? I bet not. I think these same people all believed the past managers were there to do what was best for Axl. And the fans.
Yet, he felt differently and that's why they're gone.

Current management gets attacked for things that aren't unique for the present. But I don't see people posting about what a mistake and bad idea the 1993 tour was.

/jarmo

What other manager did he refer to as "mom"?  It is unique, and unlike past management relationships.  This one started out as a personal relationship, then (over time) morphed into management.

That doesn't mean I don't like them, as you assume.  It means it is different.

[D-GenerationX]

I find it amazing how people can write shit like "they seem to dislike fans" or something similar.

Well, let me ask you this.

Do you think you come off a real swell liaison to the fanbase?  Any idea how someone might arrive at that conclusion?

Pretty much the same principle with TB, I reckon.

[D-GenerationX]

If you ask why I wont question the management in 1993.... well I was pretty happy with the output I had received up till that time...

Correctamundo.

Its a phony argument to say that everyone loved everything Big FD did at their turn at the wheel back in the day.  Has anyone ever said that, ever?

But...do you really want to do a Pepsi challenge with them versus any of the recent ones?  What's that saying about 2 guys running from the bear? 

[jarmo]

If you ask why I wont question the management in 1993.... well I was pretty happy with the output I had received up till that time...

Of course.
But the point is, if somebody thinks the management did something "wrong" in 2013, and it's pretty much similar to what was done in the 1990s, then both must be "wrong". Isn't that logical?
But only one keeps being brought up!

And I don't get the dislike for current management. I mean, we love the fucking band. Why are some of you so hung up on who the manager is? It's weird.

I don't get it. You can say "I don't like them because they didn't get the album out". Ok. But neither did many other managers. So why is it such an issue now? Maybe it's "I don't think it's best for Axl!"? Is that it? They're there against your wishes? Nobody asked you who you think should manage the band and you feel it's your duty to protest by going on on about how bad and evil they are? That bothers you so much that you gotta spend time telling the whole world how much you dislike them?

I'm sorry your favorites for the management position were kicked out. I didn't know some of you were fans of managers.

Well, let me ask you this.

Do you think you come off a real swell liaison to the fanbase?  Any idea how someone might arrive at that conclusion?

Pretty much the same principle with TB, I reckon.

I think the real fans know the deal. They don't seem to question my credibility day in and day out.
The ones who don't, they're the ones who have agendas. They don't like how I choose to run my site, they don't like that they were stupid enough to get banned from a fan site or they don't like what I've experienced.

If you can get "You hate the fans" from all this. Then congratulations.

What other manager did he refer to as "mom"?  It is unique, and unlike past management relationships.  This one started out as a personal relationship, then (over time) morphed into management.

Kinda difficult considering they were MALE!
Personal relationship?

So did we manage to forget about the shower incident already?



/jarmo