"Next Album" rumor / speculation thread *UPDATE AUG 22/2023*

[jarmo]

The reason is, TB have flooded the market with a moribund show. They have destroyed Axl's North American fan base. All you are left with is Vegas and Brazil. TB are perhaps the most incompetent management in the industry.

It's ironic how if it was somebody else, you'd be thinking it's brilliant.

They haven't done an arena tour since 2011. The UCAP tour was in early 2012. After that it was just festivals and shows around those in select markets.
The dislike for people makes you blind to these realities. And the dislike seems to come from the notion that it bothers you that they've replied to whiny fans on the Internet.

The band goes where they are booked. Simple as that.


Anyway, you must be ecstatic that there are no shows planned at the moment. I don't see you thanking management for it though.



/jarmo

[Ginger King]

The reason is, TB have flooded the market with a moribund show. They have destroyed Axl's North American fan base. All you are left with is Vegas and Brazil. TB are perhaps the most incompetent management in the industry.

It's ironic how if it was somebody else, you'd be thinking it's brilliant.

They haven't done an arena tour since 2011. The UCAP tour was in early 2012. After that it was just festivals and shows around those in select markets.
The dislike for people makes you blind to these realities. And the dislike seems to come from the notion that it bothers you that they've replied to whiny fans on the Internet.

The band goes where they are booked. Simple as that.


Anyway, you must be ecstatic that there are no shows planned at the moment. I don't see you thanking management for it though.



/jarmo

But Jarmo, didn?t Rockfuel say that TB was a pain to deal with (I don?t recall their exact words so don?t quote me).  Any reason why they would say that?  More lies and propaganda from the negative media?

Perhaps TB is not a total train wreck or the Best. Managers. Ever.  Perhaps they are somewhere in between.  I do find it odd that Axl refers to his manager as him mom, and that there is the appearance that they try to insulate him from people (when they tried to turn Duff away in London, and obviously the night Slash showed up at Axl?s house). 

But what do I know?  Not one god damn thing. 

[JAEBALL]

The reason is, TB have flooded the market with a moribund show. They have destroyed Axl's North American fan base. All you are left with is Vegas and Brazil. TB are perhaps the most incompetent management in the industry.

It's ironic how if it was somebody else, you'd be thinking it's brilliant.

They haven't done an arena tour since 2011. The UCAP tour was in early 2012. After that it was just festivals and shows around those in select markets.
The dislike for people makes you blind to these realities. And the dislike seems to come from the notion that it bothers you that they've replied to whiny fans on the Internet.

The band goes where they are booked. Simple as that.


Anyway, you must be ecstatic that there are no shows planned at the moment. I don't see you thanking management for it though.



/jarmo

But Jarmo, didn?t Rockfuel say that TB was a pain to deal with (I don?t recall their exact words so don?t quote me).  Any reason why they would say that?  More lies and propaganda from the negative media?

Perhaps TB is not a total train wreck or the Best. Managers. Ever.  Perhaps they are somewhere in between.  I do find it odd that Axl refers to his manager as him mom, and that there is the appearance that they try to insulate him from people (when they tried to turn Duff away in London, and obviously the night Slash showed up at Axl?s house). 

But what do I know?  Not one god damn thing. 

All good questions... which I doubt will get a real answer.

IF you have gripes with how and why TB does anything... than you really jsut have a gripe with Axl... because they only do and say what he wants to see and hear.

You want to question their motives? That's on you... But they are only going to try to execute what he wants.

[FunkyMonkey]

And the dislike seems to come from the notion that it bothers you that they've replied to whiny fans on the Internet.


/jarmo

Whiny fans?  Wasn't it just a fan who asked nicely about new music?

[sky dog]

Guns is a theatre band in the US now and should stick to classic 2000-5000 seat venues. There is nothing wrong with that as the quality and sound of the show is much better than arenas. Personally, I don't care for the pyro and flash/boom type stuff anyway. Just plug in with a cool stage set up and some cool video screens with some cool lighting/visuals and roll with it. In the end, most people come for the music and to hear the songs.They can see a fireworks display on the 4th of July!  

[JAEBALL]

Guns is a theatre band in the US now and should stick to classic 2000-5000 seat venues. There is nothing wrong with that as the quality and sound of the show is much better than arenas. Personally, I don't care for the pyro and flash/boom type stuff anyway. Just plug in with a cool stage set up and some cool video screens with some cool lighting/visuals and roll with it. In the end, most people come for the music and to hear the songs.They can see a fireworks display on the 4th of July!  

I am with you... If given my choice... A theater is ideal... the 4 Hammerstein shows in NY were legendary.

However, I do wish they could still sell multiple nights at MSG or the Rock... just knowing there are as many fans out there as me jazzed to see it.

Maybe they could even sell MSG a couple nights... but obviously other than maybe LA and Chi town.. Those wold be the only places.

[jarmo]

I don't know what they said. I didn't see it.

I can say you're an asshole, you can say I'm an asshole. Which one is it? 

and that there is the appearance that they try to insulate him from people (when they tried to turn Duff away in London,

This whole thing has been constructed from the passage in Duff's book.
It's easy to see why. You don't like the management, you read that and come to this conclusion. Is it the truth? Probably not.

Nobody has ever seemed to come up with a reason though. Or I've missed it. Instead this "they tried to stop Duff" thing keeps getting repeated by people who don't like management.

Axl was getting ready for a show at the O2 in London. Now, what is the one thing people often complain about regarding Axl and shows? Hint: It's not the setlist.
So Axl is getting ready, do you want him to be distracted by something or do you want him to be ready to depart for the venue?

Same shit happens every time the band is leaving for the airport or a venue from a hotel. Or leaving the venue to go to the next city, airport or whatever. Somebody has to say "let's go!". But it doesn't mean they hate the fans or are actively trying to stop fans from meeting the band!

For some reason, nobody seems to get this.

Whiny fans?  Wasn't it just a fan who asked nicely about new music?

The fan in question isn't just some random fan asking nicely. Some of them are kids who are fishing for info any way they can so they can have an "exclusive" on their blog, site, page or whatever.




/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

But Jarmo, didn?t Rockfuel say that TB was a pain to deal with (I don?t recall their exact words so don?t quote me).  Any reason why they would say that?  More lies and propaganda from the negative media?

I believe when questioned about the delay and the seeming lack of anyone know what was going on, the Rockfuel account posted something like "you'd have to ask their genius management, not us."

Their position the whole time was that they shot, produced, and delivered a quality product.  And the fact it wasn't coming out was not their fault.  That they did their job.

Then you had that whole thing about "former members" having some beef about royalties.  Since it seemed to come up at the last minute, a lot of people were wondering aloud how you could get this far into the process and not have that shit ironed out. 

[JAEBALL]

But Jarmo, didn?t Rockfuel say that TB was a pain to deal with (I don?t recall their exact words so don?t quote me).  Any reason why they would say that?  More lies and propaganda from the negative media?

I believe when questioned about the delay and the seeming lack of anyone know what was going on, the Rockfuel account posted something like "you'd have to ask their genius management, not us."

Their position the whole time was that they shot, produced, and delivered a quality product.  And the fact it wasn't coming out was not their fault.  That they did their job.

Then you had that whole thing about "former members" having some beef about royalties.  Since it seemed to come up at the last minute, a lot of people were wondering aloud how you could get this far into the process and not have that shit ironed out. 

Correct. I have also read that Slash's now ex wife was also directly responsible for the hold up. Take it with a grain of salt.

[Ginger King]

I don't know what they said. I didn't see it.

I can say you're an asshole, you can say I'm an asshole. Which one is it? 

and that there is the appearance that they try to insulate him from people (when they tried to turn Duff away in London,

This whole thing has been constructed from the passage in Duff's book.
It's easy to see why. You don't like the management, you read that and come to this conclusion. Is it the truth? Probably not.

Nobody has ever seemed to come up with a reason though. Or I've missed it. Instead this "they tried to stop Duff" thing keeps getting repeated by people who don't like management.

Axl was getting ready for a show at the O2 in London. Now, what is the one thing people often complain about regarding Axl and shows? Hint: It's not the setlist.
So Axl is getting ready, do you want him to be distracted by something or do you want him to be ready to depart for the venue?

Same shit happens every time the band is leaving for the airport or a venue from a hotel. Or leaving the venue to go to the next city, airport or whatever. Somebody has to say "let's go!". But it doesn't mean they hate the fans or are actively trying to stop fans from meeting the band!

For some reason, nobody seems to get this.


/jarmo

Constructed from Duff's book...like we made an illogical conclusion because we hate management?  Didn't he expressly say this?  It's not constructed, it's his words.  Now, does he hate management?  Is he lying?  Why would Duff say that?

Again, anyone who questions anything about management, Axl, the band, etc., means they don't like them.  That's your position.  It's either unquestioning loyalty or pure hatred.  You don't think there's any grey in there where people can question management's actions (based on things they read about in books by people who experienced events first hand) and not actually hate them? 

Also, pretty sure we're both assholes.   

[mortismurphy]

A good example of what I mean is, Geffen's strategy for the old band. They signed Guns N' Roses then swiftly pulled Guns from the clubs to build up an air of mystique around them and their upcoming debut. (Of course, Guns ended up circumnavigating this by merely playing under different names but this is besides the point). Good managers know when to pull their act off the road. They can read the psychology of their band's audiences. The problem with playing the same market(s) again-and-again is, the arrival of your band ceases to be 'an event'. Even the last South American tour did not sell out (you know the band has problems when the Brazilians stop buying tickets)!

Jarmo, It is those shows I refer to. In TB's defense, the US was already tiring of Guns but they have compounded the problem by booking an endless series of residencies and one offs in unremarkable venues. A far better strategy would have been to pull the band off the road c. 2011, release CD2, and aim to sell out a fully fledged arena tour off of the back of CD2. If Axl is in the studio right now, working on CD2, then TB have their act in the exact place he should be, doing the exact thing he should be doing. My 'thanks' to Fernando on a postcode when CD2 drops.

[jarmo]

Constructed from Duff's book...like we made an illogical conclusion because we hate management?  Didn't he expressly say this?  It's not constructed, it's his words.  Now, does he hate management?  Is he lying?  Why would Duff say that?

The notion that they actively were trying to make sure Duff and Axl wouldn't meet. That part is constructed. Nowhere in Duff's book did he claim there was some kind of evil plan to make it impossible for them to meet. This all comes from people like yourself.

Duff wrote: ?You can?t go in right now, man,? said one. ?He?s about to get in the shower to get ready for the show tonight.?
You: "and that there is the appearance that they try to insulate him from people (when they tried to turn Duff away in London,"

So yeah, it does seem like you failed to see the simple most reasonable explanation for what he wrote, and instead let your imagination colored by dislike for these people run wild.

Did you discredit what I said? Not one bit.

Even the last South American tour did not sell out (you know the band has problems when the Brazilians stop buying tickets)!

They did nine (9) shows in Brazil! Nine! Stop acting like nobody went. They don't get asked to extend a tour without demand. In case you didn't realize, they tour was in Brazil, then went abroad before returning to Brazil. The last two shows there were announced later. The band played in cities most bands skip or play one of the three that GN'R played.

The tour did way better than you want to acknowledge.

"I'd like to dedicate this song to all the fucking haters that are pissed off that this tour is going so well! Thank you!" -
Axl Rose before It's So Easy
April 15th, 2014 - Recife, PE, Brazil @ Chevrolet Hall

Jarmo, It is those shows I refer to. In TB's defense, the US was already tiring of Guns but they have compounded the problem by booking an endless series of residencies and one offs in unremarkable venues. A far better strategy would have been to pull the band off the road c. 2011, release CD2, and aim to sell out a fully fledged arena tour off of the back of CD2. If Axl is in the studio right now, working on CD2, then TB have their act in the exact place he should be, doing the exact thing he should be doing. My 'thanks' to Fernando on a postcode when CD2 drops.

I don't know which venues were unremarkable. Played a bunch of huge festivals. Headlining those meant publicity as well as playing some classic venues in 2012.

Also, since you seem to know so much. Do you know why a band would tour? To sell more copies of their albums? Is it possible it's all tied together? Without tours, there's no new music? Possible? Tour income is invested into the music? Yes? No? Is it pointless to tour if you knew that the money made is spent on making sure there's a future release? And shows?



Honestly, I don't get this complaining about the shows. There's a bunch of bands that can't play as much as they would love to. It's how it is these days. Yet some GN'R fans are unhappy that GN'R is in a position to play pretty much anywhere on the planet at any time.

Next time a band comes into town might be the last. Promoters don't book shows if they don't think they'll make money. So the idea of boycotting shows means you might never get to see that particular band in your area again.



/jarmo

[Ginger King]

Constructed from Duff's book...like we made an illogical conclusion because we hate management?  Didn't he expressly say this?  It's not constructed, it's his words.  Now, does he hate management?  Is he lying?  Why would Duff say that?

The notion that they actively were trying to make sure Duff and Axl wouldn't meet. That part is constructed. Nowhere in Duff's book did he claim there was some kind of evil plan to make it impossible for them to meet. This all comes from people like yourself.

Duff wrote: ?You can?t go in right now, man,? said one. ?He?s about to get in the shower to get ready for the show tonight.?
You: "and that there is the appearance that they try to insulate him from people (when they tried to turn Duff away in London,"

So yeah, it does seem like you failed to see the simple most reasonable explanation for what he wrote, and instead let your imagination colored by dislike for these people run wild.

Did you discredit what I said? Not one bit.

/jarmo

You forgot the ?People from his entourage stopped me in the hallway? and how, only when Axl heard him, he was let in.  You also left out the Slash story too.  Please tell me how I got that one wrong, too.

[D-GenerationX]

Someone at MYGNR posted the figures from the SA tour.  Stuff like the live gate, attendance, etc.

What shocked me was how some were nowhere near capacity.  I guess the shock came from the rather universal feeling that the region was the most hospitable to the band.

[JAEBALL]

Constructed from Duff's book...like we made an illogical conclusion because we hate management?  Didn't he expressly say this?  It's not constructed, it's his words.  Now, does he hate management?  Is he lying?  Why would Duff say that?

The notion that they actively were trying to make sure Duff and Axl wouldn't meet. That part is constructed. Nowhere in Duff's book did he claim there was some kind of evil plan to make it impossible for them to meet. This all comes from people like yourself.

Duff wrote: ?You can?t go in right now, man,? said one. ?He?s about to get in the shower to get ready for the show tonight.?
You: "and that there is the appearance that they try to insulate him from people (when they tried to turn Duff away in London,"

So yeah, it does seem like you failed to see the simple most reasonable explanation for what he wrote, and instead let your imagination colored by dislike for these people run wild.

Did you discredit what I said? Not one bit.

/jarmo

You forgot the ?People from his entourage stopped me in the hallway? and how, only when Axl heard him, he was let in.  You also left out the Slash story too.  Please tell me how I got that one wrong, too.

I believe in the when there is smoke there is fire theory... No you cant believe whatever you read about people. Too many times tho, I have read they shield Axl from anything they believe can be a negative for him/them. Which results in Axl looking bad.

[jarmo]

You forgot the ?People from his entourage stopped me in the hallway? and how, only when Axl heard him, he was let in.  You also left out the Slash story too.  Please tell me how I got that one wrong, too.

No, I didn't forget anything. I READ the whole thing.

So, since you have such great understanding of how this works. Why don't you just prove exactly why what I said makes no sense? It should be easy for you.
What exactly is impossible in what I said? You have nothing to go on except your dislike for these people. Not one single fact supports your theory.



I didn't comment on the Slash thing because he lied even about going there. But since you insist. It makes sense to me that 5:30am isn't the best time to have a heart to heart talk.

What shocked me was how some were nowhere near capacity.  I guess the shock came from the rather universal feeling that the region was the most hospitable to the band.

Nine shows. Nine. Not two or three. Nine.

Those figures are a bit weird. I saw shows that weren't "sold out" but I have no idea where they could've fit the few hundred extra people!
It was that packed.




/jarmo

[14 Yrs Of Silence]

Constructed from Duff's book...like we made an illogical conclusion because we hate management?  Didn't he expressly say this?  It's not constructed, it's his words.  Now, does he hate management?  Is he lying?  Why would Duff say that?

The notion that they actively were trying to make sure Duff and Axl wouldn't meet. That part is constructed. Nowhere in Duff's book did he claim there was some kind of evil plan to make it impossible for them to meet. This all comes from people like yourself.

Duff wrote: ?You can?t go in right now, man,? said one. ?He?s about to get in the shower to get ready for the show tonight.?
You: "and that there is the appearance that they try to insulate him from people (when they tried to turn Duff away in London,"

So yeah, it does seem like you failed to see the simple most reasonable explanation for what he wrote, and instead let your imagination colored by dislike for these people run wild.

Did you discredit what I said? Not one bit.

/jarmo

You forgot the ?People from his entourage stopped me in the hallway? and how, only when Axl heard him, he was let in.  You also left out the Slash story too.  Please tell me how I got that one wrong, too.

I believe in the when there is smoke there is fire theory... No you cant believe whatever you read about people. Too many times tho, I have read they shield Axl from anything they believe can be a negative for him/them. Which results in Axl looking bad.

Based on what we've heard I agree with this.  But remember, Beta and family supported Axl through a difficult time which he's acknowledged.  So they have every right to want to protect him.  Some of you think TB is in it for the money, of course it doesn't hurt to work for someone who has a lot of money.  But if it was only money and they didn't care about him, they would be pushing for Axl to make amends with Slash, thats where the money is.  I really believe they care about his well being above everything else.  Maybe to a fault some might say.  

[jarmo]

I find it amazing how people can write shit like "they seem to dislike fans" or something similar.

No they don't. You're making a generalization because they reacted to one of you and the bullshit. They don't hate everybody.
Remember how Axl said the Internet was a big garbage can? Well, do you think he hates all fans online? Of course not.


As I've said in the past, the people who dislike the management never had any actual contact with them and the only reason(s) for the dislike is the fact that they've spoken out against whiny fans and/or they actually believe that the reunion would've happened without them in Axl's life.




/jarmo

[sofine11]

Constructed from Duff's book...like we made an illogical conclusion because we hate management?  Didn't he expressly say this?  It's not constructed, it's his words.  Now, does he hate management?  Is he lying?  Why would Duff say that?

The notion that they actively were trying to make sure Duff and Axl wouldn't meet. That part is constructed. Nowhere in Duff's book did he claim there was some kind of evil plan to make it impossible for them to meet. This all comes from people like yourself.

Duff wrote: ?You can?t go in right now, man,? said one. ?He?s about to get in the shower to get ready for the show tonight.?
You: "and that there is the appearance that they try to insulate him from people (when they tried to turn Duff away in London,"

So yeah, it does seem like you failed to see the simple most reasonable explanation for what he wrote, and instead let your imagination colored by dislike for these people run wild.

Did you discredit what I said? Not one bit.

/jarmo

You forgot the ?People from his entourage stopped me in the hallway? and how, only when Axl heard him, he was let in.  You also left out the Slash story too.  Please tell me how I got that one wrong, too.

I believe in the when there is smoke there is fire theory... No you cant believe whatever you read about people. Too many times tho, I have read they shield Axl from anything they believe can be a negative for him/them. Which results in Axl looking bad.

Yeah, Beta's handling of Axl does appear to be fairly stifling.  She's just ALWAYS THERE. Always struck me as strange.  I mean, I get that she's a mother figure to him, but wouldn't it drive any grown adult nuts to have their mom there deciding who has access to you during nearly every public moment?

And I'm far from a reunionist, but I've always wondered if Beta even made Axl aware that Slash wanted to speak with him back in 2005 when he drove to Axl's house, until after the fact.  Maybe I have too much faith in people, but I just cannot see Axl outright refusing to see an old friend standing at his door wanting to make peace.  Who knows?

[JAEBALL]

Constructed from Duff's book...like we made an illogical conclusion because we hate management?  Didn't he expressly say this?  It's not constructed, it's his words.  Now, does he hate management?  Is he lying?  Why would Duff say that?

The notion that they actively were trying to make sure Duff and Axl wouldn't meet. That part is constructed. Nowhere in Duff's book did he claim there was some kind of evil plan to make it impossible for them to meet. This all comes from people like yourself.

Duff wrote: ?You can?t go in right now, man,? said one. ?He?s about to get in the shower to get ready for the show tonight.?
You: "and that there is the appearance that they try to insulate him from people (when they tried to turn Duff away in London,"

So yeah, it does seem like you failed to see the simple most reasonable explanation for what he wrote, and instead let your imagination colored by dislike for these people run wild.

Did you discredit what I said? Not one bit.

/jarmo

You forgot the ?People from his entourage stopped me in the hallway? and how, only when Axl heard him, he was let in.  You also left out the Slash story too.  Please tell me how I got that one wrong, too.

I believe in the when there is smoke there is fire theory... No you cant believe whatever you read about people. Too many times tho, I have read they shield Axl from anything they believe can be a negative for him/them. Which results in Axl looking bad.

Based on what we've heard I agree with this.  But remember, Beta and family supported Axl through a difficult time which he's acknowledged.  So they have every right to want to protect him.  Some of you think TB is in it for the money, of course it doesn't hurt to work for someone who has a lot of money.  But if it was only money and they didn't care about him, they would be pushing for Axl to make amends with Slash, thats where the money is.  I really believe they care about his well being above everything else.  Maybe to a fault some might say.  

I agree with all of that. Except for maybe the Slash part... a reunion of sorts could possibly push them from front and center.

I have never questioned how they feel for the guy... just my previous post, Even if they have always had pure intentions, the shielding makes them all come off badly sometimes.