"Next Album" rumor / speculation thread *UPDATE AUG 22/2023*

[Ow-So7411501]

When I speak of selling the band I speak of selling the band to the general public. This band is in a unique position of having to remind the "average" fan that Slash is no longer in the band. What do you tell the "average" fan when they watch the Appetite for Democracy DVD ( which has been pushed heavily) that the guys who put on that kick ass show have yet to record a single song?

What do you tell them?
First of, we don't know what they have and what they haven't done together.

Just because they didn't sit together in a circle writing songs doesn't mean they haven't recorded together. All of them, with the exception of Dj who joined after, are featured on Chinese Democracy.

I think you are mistaken when you say that you don't think that the average music listener doesnt pay attention to the songwriting credits. That may be true for let's say Pop music but Rock music fans are different.

I don't think they care for the details to be honest. Most just assume the singer writes lyrics and a guitar player the melodies.
Even many GN'R fans assumed Chris Pitman shouldn't be in the band or that Paul Tobias wasn't important. And look who had writing credits on Chinese Democracy.



Besides, you can't really read album booklets while driving.




/jarmo

Jarmo,

I like to give the average rock fan a little more credit than you do. If your logic was true I dont think that musicians like Slash, Duff Mckagan, Izzy Stradlin and even Steve Adler would have the followings that they have. The first three people I mentioned have done pretty well for themselves outside of GNR which indicates to me that people know who they are. People know and appreciate their contributions to their favorite band.

[JAEBALL]

Like you said earlier... I think rock/metal fans absolutely know the deal/ know who wrote what etc... more so than other genres of music.

[jarmo]

Jarmo,

I like to give the average rock fan a little more credit than you do. If your logic was true I dont think that musicians like Slash, Duff Mckagan, Izzy Stradlin and even Steve Adler would have the followings that they have. The first three people I mentioned have done pretty well for themselves outside of GNR which indicates to me that people know who they are. People know and appreciate their contributions to their favorite band.

I did not say people don't know who they are!

Do you think these people could name one song Duff wrote on his own? Can you? That's my point. I did not make claims that they are not known, respected musicians, or capable songwriters.

I said people don't care about that if a song comes on the radio. If Welcome To The Jungle is played at the hockey arena, people don't start focusing on who wrote what parts. They might get an image in their minds who played on the track. That's different.




/jarmo

[ice cream sand pig]

It means that if you have 15 songs for an album you think people should hear, you put them out no matter if some will attack you for putting out "old" songs.

Ok, but if this is in fact a band in the true sense of the word as Axl claims they are, wouldn't you want to sell this great band you have by recording new material? I'm all for releasing the "old" songs but just don't think it should be the next release. You have a kick ass band. Let's see what they can do.

To be honest, I don't think many people will mind if the songs on the next release are 10 years old. They're still all new songs to the fans. Also, I think the waiting time will be a bit longer if they decide to go with brand new songs written by the current line-up.

About Guns N Roses being "a band in the true sense"... No, they don't operate like a "regular" band. Actually I don't know any other band that operates like GN'R does, and I'm fine with it. Axl is the leader and that's how it'll always be. Even the band members have called it "Axl's band". But, I don't think that gets in the way of letting the creativity flow in the band. Going by several statements coming from the band, Axl doesn't tell them how and what to play when they are creating songs, he wants everyone to participate with their own ideas. Yes, Axl probably has a final say when they are putting together finishing touches, but in the end it's a collaboration.

The current line up has been pretty stable for a while aside from the whole unfortunate Ronfusion, but the idea of it being Axl's band and everyone being hired guns (which is often looked at in a negative way) is something I always thought was really cool. It's like one of those movies or video games where there's the big boss, and he hires all the world'st best specialized  assassins (musicians) to help him do what he has to do. It's just such a classic scenario that strongly appeals to me (anyone ever play Metal Gear Solid 3?). Whether or not it actually is that way I can't say, but if it is then I don't mind. Axl is the guy I'm really here for anyway.

[Ow-So7411501]

Jarmo,

I like to give the average rock fan a little more credit than you do. If your logic was true I dont think that musicians like Slash, Duff Mckagan, Izzy Stradlin and even Steve Adler would have the followings that they have. The first three people I mentioned have done pretty well for themselves outside of GNR which indicates to me that people know who they are. People know and appreciate their contributions to their favorite band.

I did not say people don't know who they are!

Do you think these people could name one song Duff wrote on his own? Can you? That's my point. I did not make claims that they are not known, respected musicians, or capable songwriters.

I said people don't care about that if a song comes on the radio. If Welcome To The Jungle is played at the hockey arena, people don't start focusing on who wrote what parts. They might get an image in their minds who played on the track. That's different.




/jarmo

I never claimed that you made that point. My point is that if people didn't already respect them as songwriters ( which would imply that some people knew who wrote what) would they enjoy the following that they have? Tell me...name another band in which multiple members went on to have successful solo careers? People connected with the original group for a reason.
I made a point earlier about selling the current lineup. What I meant by that is that Axl should showcase the talent of this band by showing what they can come up with in the studio. I would love to see what this lineup could produce.
There will always be haters. Who cares about them. Ultimately they as artists shouldnt be making music to make the fans happy. It's about staying true to their vision.

[JAEBALL]

It means that if you have 15 songs for an album you think people should hear, you put them out no matter if some will attack you for putting out "old" songs.

Ok, but if this is in fact a band in the true sense of the word as Axl claims they are, wouldn't you want to sell this great band you have by recording new material? I'm all for releasing the "old" songs but just don't think it should be the next release. You have a kick ass band. Let's see what they can do.

To be honest, I don't think many people will mind if the songs on the next release are 10 years old. They're still all new songs to the fans. Also, I think the waiting time will be a bit longer if they decide to go with brand new songs written by the current line-up.

About Guns N Roses being "a band in the true sense"... No, they don't operate like a "regular" band. Actually I don't know any other band that operates like GN'R does, and I'm fine with it. Axl is the leader and that's how it'll always be. Even the band members have called it "Axl's band". But, I don't think that gets in the way of letting the creativity flow in the band. Going by several statements coming from the band, Axl doesn't tell them how and what to play when they are creating songs, he wants everyone to participate with their own ideas. Yes, Axl probably has a final say when they are putting together finishing touches, but in the end it's a collaboration.

The current line up has been pretty stable for a while aside from the whole unfortunate Ronfusion, but the idea of it being Axl's band and everyone being hired guns (which is often looked at in a negative way) is something I always thought was really cool. It's like one of those movies or video games where there's the big boss, and he hires all the world'st best specialized  assassins (musicians) to help him do what he has to do. It's just such a classic scenario that strongly appeals to me (anyone ever play Metal Gear Solid 3?). Whether or not it actually is that way I can't say, but if it is then I don't mind. Axl is the guy I'm really here for anyway.

I like that too... Axl having a dream team scenario like.. It's just... the name issue... which rubs people the wrong way if thats the way hes going to run the "company".

Some people don't care...others do.. that's life.

[jarmo]

I never claimed that you made that point.

You brought it up in your response.

My point is that if people didn't already respect them as songwriters ( which would imply that some people knew who wrote what) would they enjoy the following that they have?

You're saying they have fans only because people assume they wrote all those GN'R hits? Izzy probably had the most song writing credits of the two guitar players. Yet Slash is way more known. Shouldn't it be the other way around since Izzy is the one who wrote more songs? Shouldn't he be more popular since people apparently know that he wrote many of those hits?

Tell me...name another band in which multiple members went on to have successful solo careers? People connected with the original group for a reason.

Because they were in Guns N' Roses! And the most successful post-GN'R bands were the "GN'R reunions".

I made a point earlier about selling the current lineup. What I meant by that is that Axl should showcase the talent of this band by showing what they can come up with in the studio.

I think it was already established that we got your point.



/jarmo

[Ow-So7411501]

I never claimed that you made that point.

You brought it up in your response.

My point is that if people didn't already respect them as songwriters ( which would imply that some people knew who wrote what) would they enjoy the following that they have?

You're saying they have fans only because people assume they wrote all those GN'R hits? Izzy probably had the most song writing credits of the two guitar players. Yet Slash is way more known. Shouldn't it be the other way around since Izzy is the one who wrote more songs? Shouldn't he be more popular since people apparently know that he wrote many of those hits?

Tell me...name another band in which multiple members went on to have successful solo careers? People connected with the original group for a reason.

Because they were in Guns N' Roses! And the most successful post-GN'R bands were the "GN'R reunions".

I made a point earlier about selling the current lineup. What I meant by that is that Axl should showcase the talent of this band by showing what they can come up with in the studio.

I think it was already established that we got your point.



/jarmo

Not the point I was trying to make. Your original point was that you don't think that people really pay attention to the songwriting credits. My point was that if people didn't pay attention would the members I mentioned have had as succesful solo careers as they've had? I never compared them to each other. Never compared there acomplishments. Obviously that band connected with a good chunk of the people on this board. It's the reason we are here isn't it?
There are probably a handful of special rock bands. Guns happened to be one of them. With the special ones you can name all of there members. Thats just my opinion though.

[Spirit]

I never claimed that you made that point.

You brought it up in your response.

My point is that if people didn't already respect them as songwriters ( which would imply that some people knew who wrote what) would they enjoy the following that they have?

You're saying they have fans only because people assume they wrote all those GN'R hits? Izzy probably had the most song writing credits of the two guitar players. Yet Slash is way more known. Shouldn't it be the other way around since Izzy is the one who wrote more songs? Shouldn't he be more popular since people apparently know that he wrote many of those hits?

Tell me...name another band in which multiple members went on to have successful solo careers? People connected with the original group for a reason.

Because they were in Guns N' Roses! And the most successful post-GN'R bands were the "GN'R reunions".

I made a point earlier about selling the current lineup. What I meant by that is that Axl should showcase the talent of this band by showing what they can come up with in the studio.

I think it was already established that we got your point.



/jarmo

Not the point I was trying to make. Your original point was that you don't think that people really pay attention to the songwriting credits. My point was that if people didn't pay attention would the members I mentioned have had as succesful solo careers as they've had? I never compared them to each other. Never compared there acomplishments. Obviously that band connected with a good chunk of the people on this board. It's the reason we are here isn't it?
There are probably a handful of special rock bands. Guns happened to be one of them. With the special ones you can name all of there members. Thats just my opinion though.

The fact that all of the original members are well known today has more to do with they being in the biggest band in the world at one point, not their songwriting contributions. It's all about image I think.

[D-GenerationX]

The current line up has been pretty stable for a while aside from the whole unfortunate Ronfusion, but the idea of it being Axl's band and everyone being hired guns (which is often looked at in a negative way) is something I always thought was really cool.
 

Well, in my experience, people get their backs up when things are couched this way.

You are fed stuff like "most stable line-up" and face real pushback on the concept this is anything but a cohesive unit.  In fact, even use of the term "hired guns" gets you a stern talking to, most times.

Ultimately, its all about perception.  The perception away from these boards is that this is a giant clusterfuck and rather illegitimate.  I don't think that is changing anytime soon.  We seem long past the point of Axl giving a shit how it all looks.  This is how it is and how its likely to stay.

The problem, I find, is that some of his superfans will take up that cause on his behalf.  Which I just find silly.  One, you will never change public perception.  Two, these are the people that supposedly claim all this respect for Axl's vision and way of conducting himself.  I'd suggest they might follow his lead and not get so moutherfucking offended all the live long day if anyone vocalizes any of these points.  You aren't his Mom.

[LongGoneDay]

I can?t think of many, if any other bands in a similar situation, but it?s certainly not strange to have interest in hearing what the current active incarnation of a band has to offer.

Obviously a lot of people enjoy seeing their favorite songs performed live.
It would be a buzzkill to hear a song, or solo that I really enjoyed on the next album, only to find out the member who wrote/played it won?t be anywhere near the concert I purchase a ticket for.

In the case of Guns you obviously take what you can get, but ideally when you buy a ticket to see a show, the people who created the songs are up on stage.
Not a cover band charging prices comparable to the real deal.

[Spirit]

I can?t think of many, if any other bands in a similar situation, but it?s certainly not strange to have interest in hearing what the current active incarnation of a band has to offer.

Obviously a lot of people enjoy seeing their favorite songs performed live.
It would be a buzzkill to hear a song, or solo that I really enjoyed on the next album, only to find out the member who wrote/played it won?t be anywhere near the concert I purchase a ticket for.

In the case of Guns you obviously take what you can get, but ideally when you buy a ticket to see a show, the people who created the songs are up on stage.
Not a cover band charging prices comparable to the real deal.

I get your point, and ideally the next release will be the music of the current line-up. But I think it will be a travesty to scrap such a body of material that's already made just because of the above viewpoint. I think the fans will be missing out in that case.

[jarmo]

In the case of Guns you obviously take what you can get, but ideally when you buy a ticket to see a show, the people who created the songs are up on stage.

You've had 20+ years to get used to the idea by now...




/jarmo

[Ow-So7411501]

In the case of Guns you obviously take what you can get, but ideally when you buy a ticket to see a show, the people who created the songs are up on stage.

You've had 20+ years to get used to the idea by now...


Is that a good thing though? Bands shouldnt really consist of interchangeable parts. No one plays or sings the songs like the people who wrote them.

/jarmo

[LongGoneDay]

I can?t think of many, if any other bands in a similar situation, but it?s certainly not strange to have interest in hearing what the current active incarnation of a band has to offer.

Obviously a lot of people enjoy seeing their favorite songs performed live.
It would be a buzzkill to hear a song, or solo that I really enjoyed on the next album, only to find out the member who wrote/played it won?t be anywhere near the concert I purchase a ticket for.

In the case of Guns you obviously take what you can get, but ideally when you buy a ticket to see a show, the people who created the songs are up on stage.
Not a cover band charging prices comparable to the real deal.

I get your point, and ideally the next release will be the music of the current line-up. But I think it will be a travesty to scrap such a body of material that's already made just because of the above viewpoint. I think the fans will be missing out in that case.

I agree with you.
I was speaking more to the point raised about writing credits, and fans being blind to who exactly writes/performs what.
That may be the case for some, but it doesn?t mean there wouldn?t be some disappointment to find out that 1, 2, 3 etc of the creators are long gone, and the only thing you know about the band currently on stage is that they can, or can?t depending on your perspective, play other peoples songs.

I agree. Get the recorded music out. It?s far beyond ridiculous that they haven?t yet, but that?s another discussion.

[LongGoneDay]

In the case of Guns you obviously take what you can get, but ideally when you buy a ticket to see a show, the people who created the songs are up on stage.

You've had 20+ years to get used to the idea by now...




/jarmo

I was referring to the potential future release that may, or may not contain contributions from Buckethead, Robin, Freese etc.
Cute emoticon, though.

[Spirit]

I can?t think of many, if any other bands in a similar situation, but it?s certainly not strange to have interest in hearing what the current active incarnation of a band has to offer.

Obviously a lot of people enjoy seeing their favorite songs performed live.
It would be a buzzkill to hear a song, or solo that I really enjoyed on the next album, only to find out the member who wrote/played it won?t be anywhere near the concert I purchase a ticket for.

In the case of Guns you obviously take what you can get, but ideally when you buy a ticket to see a show, the people who created the songs are up on stage.
Not a cover band charging prices comparable to the real deal.

I get your point, and ideally the next release will be the music of the current line-up. But I think it will be a travesty to scrap such a body of material that's already made just because of the above viewpoint. I think the fans will be missing out in that case.

I agree with you.
I was speaking more to the point raised about writing credits, and fans being blind to who exactly writes/performs what.
That may be the case for some, but it doesn?t mean there wouldn?t be some disappointment to find out that 1, 2, 3 etc of the creators are long gone, and the only thing you know about the band currently on stage is that they can, or can?t depending on your perspective, play other peoples songs.

I agree. Get the recorded music out. It?s far beyond ridiculous that they haven?t yet, but that?s another discussion.

An alternative could of course be to make the next two releases sort of "half and half", with both "old" and "new" new songs. Make a compromise in regards to the time aspect of getting out new music.

[damnthehaters]

I never claimed that you made that point.

You brought it up in your response.

My point is that if people didn't already respect them as songwriters ( which would imply that some people knew who wrote what) would they enjoy the following that they have?

You're saying they have fans only because people assume they wrote all those GN'R hits? Izzy probably had the most song writing credits of the two guitar players. Yet Slash is way more known. Shouldn't it be the other way around since Izzy is the one who wrote more songs? Shouldn't he be more popular since people apparently know that he wrote many of those hits?

Tell me...name another band in which multiple members went on to have successful solo careers? People connected with the original group for a reason.

Because they were in Guns N' Roses! And the most successful post-GN'R bands were the "GN'R reunions".

I made a point earlier about selling the current lineup. What I meant by that is that Axl should showcase the talent of this band by showing what they can come up with in the studio.

I think it was already established that we got your point.



/jarmo

Not the point I was trying to make. Your original point was that you don't think that people really pay attention to the songwriting credits. My point was that if people didn't pay attention would the members I mentioned have had as succesful solo careers as they've had? I never compared them to each other. Never compared there acomplishments. Obviously that band connected with a good chunk of the people on this board. It's the reason we are here isn't it?
There are probably a handful of special rock bands. Guns happened to be one of them. With the special ones you can name all of there members. Thats just my opinion though.

Those guys did not have successful solo careers because of their song writing credits.  Of course, maybe their song writing led to good production with their solo stuff, but it wasn't something that most fans recognized before they went solo.  They had successful solo careers because they were once in the biggest band in the world and their faces were known.  People aren't going "hey I'm going to go watch Slash because he wrote the riff for Coma", what they are saying is "bro, it's slash.  I loved him in GNR with his Top Hat and cigar hanging out of his mouth".  And they are saying "I'm gonna go see Izzy, because he was in Guns N Roses". 

The same can be said for the GNR of today.  If it's not those fans who come watch GNR because they actually think its the same GNR of yesterday, then it is a fan who supports GNR  because of what GNR WAS.  Until they put out more and more music, it will be the same.  I would say a very small amount of fans are following this GNR because of just Chinese.  Some, maybe.  But with more music being released, the number will only grow.   

[Ow-So7411501]

I never claimed that you made that point.

You brought it up in your response.

My point is that if people didn't already respect them as songwriters ( which would imply that some people knew who wrote what) would they enjoy the following that they have?

You're saying they have fans only because people assume they wrote all those GN'R hits? Izzy probably had the most song writing credits of the two guitar players. Yet Slash is way more known. Shouldn't it be the other way around since Izzy is the one who wrote more songs? Shouldn't he be more popular since people apparently know that he wrote many of those hits?

Tell me...name another band in which multiple members went on to have successful solo careers? People connected with the original group for a reason.

Because they were in Guns N' Roses! And the most successful post-GN'R bands were the "GN'R reunions".

I made a point earlier about selling the current lineup. What I meant by that is that Axl should showcase the talent of this band by showing what they can come up with in the studio.

I think it was already established that we got your point.



/jarmo

Not the point I was trying to make. Your original point was that you don't think that people really pay attention to the songwriting credits. My point was that if people didn't pay attention would the members I mentioned have had as succesful solo careers as they've had? I never compared them to each other. Never compared there acomplishments. Obviously that band connected with a good chunk of the people on this board. It's the reason we are here isn't it?
There are probably a handful of special rock bands. Guns happened to be one of them. With the special ones you can name all of there members. Thats just my opinion though.

Those guys did not have successful solo careers because of their song writing credits.  Of course, maybe their song writing led to good production with their solo stuff, but it wasn't something that most fans recognized before they went solo.  They had successful solo careers because they were once in the biggest band in the world and their faces were known.  People aren't going "hey I'm going to go watch Slash because he wrote the riff for Coma", what they are saying is "bro, it's slash.  I loved him in GNR with his Top Hat and cigar hanging out of his mouth".  And they are saying "I'm gonna go see Izzy, because he was in Guns N Roses". 

Ok. But how why did they become the biggest band in the world? Why did they connect with so many fans? It was there songs. Guns like all of the great bands was pretty much an allstar band. Great singer, Great Guitarists, great bassist. All contributors to the songwriting process as well. If people were going out to see them based on there past with GNR there careers wouldve fizzled years ago. There has to be substance behind what they are producing. Then again im sure there are some fans who go to see them for the celebrity of seeing a former member of GNR.

[damnthehaters]

I never claimed that you made that point.

You brought it up in your response.

My point is that if people didn't already respect them as songwriters ( which would imply that some people knew who wrote what) would they enjoy the following that they have?

You're saying they have fans only because people assume they wrote all those GN'R hits? Izzy probably had the most song writing credits of the two guitar players. Yet Slash is way more known. Shouldn't it be the other way around since Izzy is the one who wrote more songs? Shouldn't he be more popular since people apparently know that he wrote many of those hits?

Tell me...name another band in which multiple members went on to have successful solo careers? People connected with the original group for a reason.

Because they were in Guns N' Roses! And the most successful post-GN'R bands were the "GN'R reunions".

I made a point earlier about selling the current lineup. What I meant by that is that Axl should showcase the talent of this band by showing what they can come up with in the studio.

I think it was already established that we got your point.



/jarmo

Not the point I was trying to make. Your original point was that you don't think that people really pay attention to the songwriting credits. My point was that if people didn't pay attention would the members I mentioned have had as succesful solo careers as they've had? I never compared them to each other. Never compared there acomplishments. Obviously that band connected with a good chunk of the people on this board. It's the reason we are here isn't it?
There are probably a handful of special rock bands. Guns happened to be one of them. With the special ones you can name all of there members. Thats just my opinion though.

Those guys did not have successful solo careers because of their song writing credits.  Of course, maybe their song writing led to good production with their solo stuff, but it wasn't something that most fans recognized before they went solo.  They had successful solo careers because they were once in the biggest band in the world and their faces were known.  People aren't going "hey I'm going to go watch Slash because he wrote the riff for Coma", what they are saying is "bro, it's slash.  I loved him in GNR with his Top Hat and cigar hanging out of his mouth".  And they are saying "I'm gonna go see Izzy, because he was in Guns N Roses". 

Ok. But how why did they become the biggest band in the world? Why did they connect with so many fans? It was there songs. Guns like all of the great bands was pretty much an allstar band. Great singer, Great Guitarists, great bassist. All contributors to the songwriting process as well. If people were going out to see them based on there past with GNR there careers wouldve fizzled years ago. There has to be substance behind what they are producing. Then again im sure there are some fans who go to see them for the celebrity of seeing a former member of GNR.

The majority of people just like a good tune.  For the most part, it doesn't matter who wrote it.  Did their song writing lead to that good tune, yes, but that doesn't mean people will only remember those musicians for their song writing.  People are into "good" music.  If a band puts out "good" music, people will be into that band.  If that band is really good, people will follow those in the band wherever they go.  Is it solely on writing, I don't believe so.  I believe band members get more popular based on other things....like style, stage presence, attitude, looks, etc.  These factors are why musicians are followed.