"Next Album" rumor / speculation thread *UPDATE AUG 22/2023*

[jarmo]

Can't stand that band. 
Soundgarden's Down On The Upside... 




/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

Just having a discussion with somebody who obviously rather focus on my definition of the word whining than to reply to my posts about the subject.

Seems to be a topic best avoided, because I can't imagine what there is either of us can say on it that is new or compelling.

This conversation bores me, and I'm one of the 2 principals.  I can't imagine we have kept the others on the edge of their seats with another rehash of the fact neither one of us terribly respects the other.

Look, you gave me a bullet point list of questions about the band to answer, with no snark or bullshit.  I answered them in the same fashion.  Civility can happen.

We both need to make a better effort to stop these detours.  We will never like each other, but we both can do a better job not getting sidetracked on that stuff.

[D-GenerationX]

Can't stand that band. 
Soundgarden's Down On The Upside... 

Underrated album.

Its not quite as solid as 'Superunknown', but its still really good.  Some of my favorite tunes on that one.

[pilferk]

Can't stand that band. 
Soundgarden's Down On The Upside... 




/jarmo

I remember...thus the first "I Kid".

But I also though the title might be sorta a funny poke at your headspace at this exact moment (and thus the second "I Kid", so as not to offend D-X).

[pilferk]

Underrated album.

Its not quite as solid as 'Superunknown', but its still really good.  Some of my favorite tunes on that one.

I like it...but like a lot of "theme" albums, it's not aged well in terms of relevance of material.

But there is definitely some good shit on there (and I still prefer Dookie).

[D-GenerationX]

Underrated album.

Its not quite as solid as 'Superunknown', but its still really good.  Some of my favorite tunes on that one.

I like it...but like a lot of "theme" albums, it's not aged well in terms of relevance of material.

But there is definitely some good shit on there (and I still prefer Dookie).

Oh no, I meant 'Down On The Upside'.

I do agree about 'American Idiot'.  The singles, I still listen to.  The others, not really.

[mortismurphy]

Your philosophy is obvious. Anything negative blaming the band is true, anything good said about the band is ass kissing or somebody is just nuts.

I am interested in ascertaining the facts of the matter at hand (and yes, speculating a bit when those facts are not apparent). Sorry if these facts highlight negative aspects of Guns N' Roses, but I have never been interested in sustaining a fictitious prozac-induced fictitious world of, absolute positivity and perfection.

You know very little, but you like the idea of others thinking you're some kind of authority.

That is your opinion. I have never made out that I am sensitive to information that is not freely available. My sources are the same as any Guns fan, Chinese Whispers, articles, televised interviews. But I have read them. I would never claim to be an authority but I am going to speculate, utilising the (admittedly flawed) information that we do have in our possession. What else do you want me to do? Make birthday threads or advertise Appetite for Democracy?

Partly, yes. No other band has done what Axl did with GN'R. Fact. Argue all you want. That doesn't work for some people.
Do other band's fans whine? Of course. GN'R fans aren't special in that way, don't worry, you're not that unique.

Fair enough - my mistake. But it looked suspiciously, from your original wording, that you were implying that only GN'R have negative fans:

Regarding other bands' fans, maybe they're actually supportive of the bands they love instead of spending all their time online spreading their negativity in the name of so called objectivity?

If you actually read the interviews the band has given, you'd see that these subjects have been brought up. You chose to ignore most of the things the band says, because obviously in your opinion they can't be trusted. Anybody in the band lies, anybody else is always telling the truth. That's your angle.

You consider those, enlightening statements. Listen, this is what a typical GN'R statement on the new album goes like,

Dizzy 2011: ''yes we have lots of ideas and songs. It is just a matter of sorting out what songs to put out.''

Fortus 2012: ''yes we have lots of ideas and songs. It is just a matter of sorting out what songs to put out.''

Ashba 2013: ''yes we have lots of ideas and songs. It is just a matter of sorting out what songs to put out.''

Throw in the odd variation such as Ashba's '12 demos', and repeat ad nauseam.

Or maybe he was just very respectful considering it was the first time Axl was on his TV show and he wanted to have a good future working relationship with the GN'R camp? Don't burn your bridges and all that.

This, did cross my mind actually. Sadly a lot of people seem to be over mindful of upsetting Axl. Still, I do not think it would be disrespectful, burning bridges with the guy, to ask some interesting questions relating to Axl's art such as, ''what happened to the trilogy idea?'' and ''do you intend to release a follow-up?'' These are fairly innocuous questions.

Now, instead of trying to ridicule me, be somewhat adult and prove me wrong instead. Because so far, you haven't been able to and we get this act instead.

Edited to add: If you wanna know my philosophy it's: This is how it is, it's how it's always been. Whining has not helped anybody. To spend years whining about shit you have no control over seem like a waste of time to me. I'd rather be happy and grateful for what I have than to spend my time whining about what I don't have. I don't go to concerts to think what songs they didn't play or who's not there.

Who is whining? Well I was parodying your philosophy but, returning to the original point of the (censored or not) interviews, I was merely offering a theory. I think you mistake whining with discussing. 

[TheBaconman]

Yes, you'd love that. Me staying out. 
In reality, I kept the discussion going until one of you decided that there was no time for a discussion and instead chose to focus on trying to ridicule me. And you happily joined in.



So, what good does it do? What good does it do to constantly keep pointing out the things you don't like or focus on the shows that were canceled in 2002 or 2007?

Why do you have such a hard time backing up your posts? Is it wrong to ask why you think a certain way or ask for you to offer some kind of evidence that what you are saying is actually based on something more than a result of your own imagination? It's like people who say "there's a rumor that....". And you ask, where is that rumor from? Only to realize, that's only their own theory/gossip. But it sounds better to say "there's a rumor" instead of "I think..."
 
Why is it that you have a constant need to ignore things and then try to make it personal? What kind of discussion is that?
Here I am responding to your post earlier: http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=64284.msg1375059#msg1375059
Obviously you've ignored it since and focused on other topics (me) ever since. How convenient that there's something else to talk about!


See, I didn't use the W or C word. Feel better now? One less thing to get hung up on. 
Every week the same shit just because some of you aren't capable of having a discussion. With all that it entails.





/jarmo

In reality I think I kept the conversation going, but you helped...  hahaha

[jarmo]

I am interested in ascertaining the facts of the matter at hand (and yes, speculating a bit when those facts are not apparent). Sorry if these facts highlight negative aspects of Guns N' Roses, but I have never been interested in sustaining a fictitious prozac-induced fictitious world of, absolute positivity and perfection.

So why is it that your speculation is most often geared toward the negative?
Regarding the negative, so you're saying you're not the kind of person who likes to focus of what they have and would rather focus on what they don't have? Sometimes that can work for you, it makes you strive for something. But in your opinion, looking back, did it get you anything and if so what? 

That is your opinion. I have never made out that I am sensitive to information that is not freely available. My sources are the same as any Guns fan, Chinese Whispers, articles, televised interviews. But I have read them. I would never claim to be an authority but I am going to speculate, utilising the (admittedly flawed) information that we do have in our possession. What else do you want me to do? Make birthday threads or advertise Appetite for Democracy?

But some GN'R fans actually don't seem to buy everything somebody writes about the band while disregarding what the band says....
Everybody loves the band. Or so they say. But in reality there's some of us who are happy with what we have and some who are not. And don't assume this means we don't want an album or wouldn't like it if Prostitute was played more often.

Looking at it from the outside, it's like some are trying to be supportive. Others are just complaining and being counter productive. That's the part I don't get and I've tried to get an explanation for.

Fair enough - my mistake. But it looked suspiciously, from your original wording, that you were implying that only GN'R have negative fans:

Regarding other bands' fans, maybe they're actually supportive of the bands they love instead of spending all their time online spreading their negativity in the name of so called objectivity?

No, it's just that Axl does what he thinks is right. Things that no other bands has done. Other bands might change a band member, they put out records for their fans according to their fans' timetables. For some GN'R fans this is too much. It does not compute why GN'R can't do what other bands do. So they keep expressing it, year after year after year after.... And here I am trying to get an answer to "What for?"...

You consider those, enlightening statements. Listen, this is what a typical GN'R statement on the new album goes like,

Dizzy 2011: ''yes we have lots of ideas and songs. It is just a matter of sorting out what songs to put out.''

Fortus 2012: ''yes we have lots of ideas and songs. It is just a matter of sorting out what songs to put out.''

Ashba 2013: ''yes we have lots of ideas and songs. It is just a matter of sorting out what songs to put out.''

Throw in the odd variation such as Ashba's '12 demos', and repeat ad nauseam.

No, I meant the issues with the album and the business side of things. You seemed to be ridiculing the whole notion. What's so ridiculous about it?

This, did cross my mind actually. Sadly a lot of people seem to be over mindful of upsetting Axl. Still, I do not think it would be disrespectful, burning bridges with the guy, to ask some interesting questions relating to Axl's art such as, ''what happened to the trilogy idea?'' and ''do you intend to release a follow-up?'' These are fairly innocuous questions.

That's why I don't buy the idea you have of gagging orders. It makes no sense to me that they would be asked not to ask about new music. I just think it didn't occur to them to ask, or they didn't feel it was worth talking about during the first proper North American tour GN'R did since the last album. There's many reasons that seem way more plausible to me than what you suggest.

In addition to that, I think they wanted to have an on going relationship with the band. All things combined, led to what we got. No big conspiracy....

Who is whining? Well I was parodying your philosophy but, returning to the original point of the (censored or not) interviews, I was merely offering a theory. I think you mistake whining with discussing. 

You offered a theory that was only based on your own opinion of Axl. It must be true because that's the idea you have. A lot of people do that. Nothing can be doe about it.

Regarding the whining, that's general talk. That's my philosophy. Some spent years going "But we need a new album!" and the album didn't come out sooner. Others like to pint out the setlist from show A to show B was the same and how boring it is, while they're at home. Doesn't really do anything. Still trying to figure out the point of that kind of posting.... If somebody could just explain it. I'm not asking for somebody to explain the meaning of life.

Going to fan forum year after year to point out the things you don't like about the band. What's the point? I know, you can say "straw man blah blah blah. We don't think we can change anything", I know that. So what's it for? The purpose of it all? If you want the band to succeed, isn't it a weird way to do it? By putting something down constantly, you hope to make them succeed? And then you brought up the band being hateful of some of their fans. Maybe the fans are being hateful toward the band in the first place....




/jarmo

[Ginger King]

You offered a theory that was only based on your own opinion of Axl. It must be true because that's the idea you have. A lot of people do that. Nothing can be doe about it.

Regarding the whining, that's general talk. That's my philosophy. Some spent years going "But we need a new album!" and the album didn't come out sooner. Others like to pint out the setlist from show A to show B was the same and how boring it is, while they're at home. Doesn't really do anything. Still trying to figure out the point of that kind of posting.... If somebody could just explain it. I'm not asking for somebody to explain the meaning of life.

Going to fan forum year after year to point out the things you don't like about the band. What's the point? I know, you can say "straw man blah blah blah. We don't think we can change anything", I know that. So what's it for? The purpose of it all? If you want the band to succeed, isn't it a weird way to do it? By putting something down constantly, you hope to make them succeed? And then you brought up the band being hateful of some of their fans. Maybe the fans are being hateful toward the band in the first place....

/jarmo

The point, I think, if for people to express their feelings and see if there are other like-minded individuals (or if we're just crazy).  Like, I want to know if there are other people that think it's weird that, although songs have been recorded (an entire album or two - if you count the remix album as a separate album) yet for some reason it can't get released.  And, this same thing (songs done for years but seemingly impossible to get released) happened before with this band.

Maybe it's just me that thinks that's odd.  So, we come here to express that - knowing that it will effectuate no change - but to see if others agree or disagree.

You also resort to this notion that we "constantly" put down the band and are always negative.  That (a) is not a fact, and (b) is not true.  Even public enemy #1 D-X has positive things to say about the band...but you dismiss them as he's using that as way to express his negativity agenda, or build up street cred with posters at other websites.

It suits your narrative to paint us all as negative, whining, reunion loving trolls, but that is just not true. 

To me, it's not weird to want this band to succeed, while at the same time, questioning some of their decisions (i.e. what's up with Ron, why do some members seem more excited for their "side" projects, why was Duff's interview canceled, how come answers are very cryptic - "we?re going to start looking very seriously at what we?re doing in that regard", etc.).

[D-GenerationX]

The point, I think, if for people to express their feelings and see if there are other like-minded individuals (or if we're just crazy).  Like, I want to know if there are other people that think it's weird that, although songs have been recorded (an entire album or two - if you count the remix album as a separate album) yet for some reason it can't get released.  And, this same thing (songs done for years but seemingly impossible to get released) happened before with this band.

Maybe it's just me that thinks that's odd.  So, we come here to express that - knowing that it will effectuate no change - but to see if others agree or disagree.

Exactly!

Who else am I going to talk about this stuff with?  You guys.  Fellow fans. 

Who else even cares about any of this to the level we do?  Isn't that true of any shared hobby or common interest?

[mortismurphy]

So why is it that your speculation is most often geared toward the negative?

How do you expect me to act? I do not like the Vegas thing and do not understand why Axl does not release albums. I know I am in the minority here (DGX is much more forgiven than me on the Vegas residencies) but I just do not like it. That is just me. I am not going to lie to myself. What would lying to myself - pretending that I like to see W. Axl Rose, the man who penned Estranged, float above DJ Ashba's head on a floating Piano engulfed with tacky Casino chip insignia - achieve? Please tell me? But Jarmo, you miss the most important point of all: this is a rather silly rock band. Fact. It means, nothing. GN'R ultimately, means nothing. Jagger appeared at Hyde Park in a Tutu. John Lennon spent a year of his life launching a peace protest, from his bed. Elvis, the very king of this very genre we call rock, spent a whole decade of his life acting in films which are so atrociously bad, they regularly make the top 10 entrees on 'so bad they are good lists'. Do you see Elvis fans try and pretend that Harum Scarum was a good film?

(Old) Guns themselves, ended their career with an appallingly bad covers album with HP spaghetti on the front cover!! Estranged features Axl swimming with dolphins and Slash playing a solo, ascending from the ocean. If you are not going to laugh at this absurd stuff, you will go insane? It is just rock n' roll. Most rock n' rollers themselves do not take it this seriously. Where is the self deprecating humour in the whole thing? It is just a band who, yes, do some good things, but also do some bad and stupid things. Enjoy the good but laugh/criticise the bad.

There is always a humour in my criticism.

You could argue that, I am the positive one, and you are the negative one. You could argue...

Regarding the negative, so you're saying you're not the kind of person who likes to focus of what they have and would rather focus on what they don't have? Sometimes that can work for you, it makes you strive for something. But in your opinion, looking back, did it get you anything and if so what? 

I am sorry. I am just a person discussing a rock band on a rock forum, idling my time away on a subject which has some curiosity for me. I have never been under any illusions that this would achieve anything.

No, it's just that Axl does what he thinks is right. Things that no other bands has done. Other bands might change a band member, they put out records for their fans according to their fans' timetables. For some GN'R fans this is too much. It does not compute why GN'R can't do what other bands do. So they keep expressing it, year after year after year after.... And here I am trying to get an answer to "What for?"...

You answered this question yourself when you mentioned the unprecedented nature of what Axl did.

You offered a theory that was only based on your own opinion of Axl. It must be true because that's the idea you have. A lot of people do that. Nothing can be doe about it.

Regarding the whining, that's general talk. That's my philosophy. Some spent years going "But we need a new album!" and the album didn't come out sooner. Others like to pint out the setlist from show A to show B was the same and how boring it is, while they're at home. Doesn't really do anything. Still trying to figure out the point of that kind of posting.... If somebody could just explain it. I'm not asking for somebody to explain the meaning of life.

Going to fan forum year after year to point out the things you don't like about the band. What's the point? I know, you can say "straw man blah blah blah. We don't think we can change anything", I know that. So what's it for? The purpose of it all? If you want the band to succeed, isn't it a weird way to do it? By putting something down constantly, you hope to make them succeed? And then you brought up the band being hateful of some of their fans. Maybe the fans are being hateful toward the band in the first place....

I can only answer for myself but I am just replying on a case-by-case basis, on GN'R - how I see it. When the RS/Loder interviews came out I was excited as anyone. Rio 3, the leaks, I loved. CD I enjoyed (although it was a bit sad with the whole history of that record). Conversely, Buckethead leaving was terrible. Rio 4 was a disaster. Vegas leaves a sour taste in my mouth. I cannot get my head around Team Brazil. I am not a fan of DJ Ashba. I do think Axl's vocals have seen better days (although his voice is perhaps not as bad as others make out).

Do you want me to lie about this stuff? It is just my opinion on GN'R on a GN'R forum which, presumably, is for GN'R discussions.

Conversely, if Axl released the remainder of his trilogy, toured off the back of it with his vocals in order and never returned to Vegas or Brazil for awhile you might see my opinion do a volte-face.

[TheBaconman]

So why is it that your speculation is most often geared toward the negative?

How do you expect me to act? I do not like the Vegas thing and do not understand why Axl does not release albums. I know I am in the minority here (DGX is much more forgiven than me on the Vegas residencies) but I just do not like it. That is just me. I am not going to lie to myself. What would lying to myself - pretending that I like to see W. Axl Rose, the man who penned Estranged, float above DJ Ashba's head on a floating Piano engulfed with tacky Casino chip insignia - achieve? Please tell me? But Jarmo, you miss the most important point of all: this is a rather silly rock band. Fact. It means, nothing. GN'R ultimately, means nothing. Jagger appeared at Hyde Park in a Tutu. John Lennon spent a year of his life launching a peace protest, from his bed. Elvis, the very king of this very genre we call rock, spent a whole decade of his life acting in films which are so atrociously bad, they regularly make the top 10 entrees on 'so bad they are good lists'. Do you see Elvis fans try and pretend that Harum Scarum was a good film?

(Old) Guns themselves, ended their career with an appallingly bad covers album with HP spaghetti on the front cover!! Estranged features Axl swimming with dolphins and Slash playing a solo, ascending from the ocean. If you are not going to laugh at this absurd stuff, you will go insane? It is just rock n' roll. Most rock n' rollers themselves do not take it this seriously. Where is the self deprecating humour in the whole thing? It is just a band who, yes, do some good things, but also do some bad and stupid things. Enjoy the good but laugh/criticise the bad.

There is always a humour in my criticism.

You could argue that, I am the positive one, and you are the negative one. You could argue...

Regarding the negative, so you're saying you're not the kind of person who likes to focus of what they have and would rather focus on what they don't have? Sometimes that can work for you, it makes you strive for something. But in your opinion, looking back, did it get you anything and if so what? 

I am sorry. I am just a person discussing a rock band on a rock forum, idling my time away on a subject which has some curiosity for me. I have never been under any illusions that this would achieve anything.

No, it's just that Axl does what he thinks is right. Things that no other bands has done. Other bands might change a band member, they put out records for their fans according to their fans' timetables. For some GN'R fans this is too much. It does not compute why GN'R can't do what other bands do. So they keep expressing it, year after year after year after.... And here I am trying to get an answer to "What for?"...

You answered this question yourself when you mentioned the unprecedented nature of what Axl did.

You offered a theory that was only based on your own opinion of Axl. It must be true because that's the idea you have. A lot of people do that. Nothing can be doe about it.

Regarding the whining, that's general talk. That's my philosophy. Some spent years going "But we need a new album!" and the album didn't come out sooner. Others like to pint out the setlist from show A to show B was the same and how boring it is, while they're at home. Doesn't really do anything. Still trying to figure out the point of that kind of posting.... If somebody could just explain it. I'm not asking for somebody to explain the meaning of life.

Going to fan forum year after year to point out the things you don't like about the band. What's the point? I know, you can say "straw man blah blah blah. We don't think we can change anything", I know that. So what's it for? The purpose of it all? If you want the band to succeed, isn't it a weird way to do it? By putting something down constantly, you hope to make them succeed? And then you brought up the band being hateful of some of their fans. Maybe the fans are being hateful toward the band in the first place....

I can only answer for myself but I am just replying on a case-by-case basis, on GN'R - how I see it. When the RS/Loder interviews came out I was excited as anyone. Rio 3, the leaks, I loved. CD I enjoyed (although it was a bit sad with the whole history of that record). Conversely, Buckethead leaving was terrible. Rio 4 was a disaster. Vegas leaves a sour taste in my mouth. I cannot get my head around Team Brazil. I am not a fan of DJ Ashba. I do think Axl's vocals have seen better days (although his voice is perhaps not as bad as others make out).

Do you want me to lie about this stuff? It is just my opinion on GN'R on a GN'R forum which, presumably, is for GN'R discussions.

Conversely, if Axl released the remainder of his trilogy, toured off the back of it with his vocals in order and never returned to Vegas or Brazil for awhile you might see my opinion do a volte-face.

Whats all the hate for the Vegas shows?  I like them actually, for what they are.  I have made many trips from Canada down to see them there, makes for a great time.  I would like them to switch up the venue though if they do it again...

[jazjme]

Mortismurphy your entire post was a whining rant.. seriously you need to find another band, cause I suspect there will be plenty more Vegas, and your mind will just explode, and frankly I'm really tired of reading all this blah blah bah crap, not that it matters. Cause I'm a fan that goes to shows hangs out with other fans, and hangs out with the band , end enjoys every minute of it. Frank is playing here in NY every Tues night in Brooklyn, real easy for me to ask questions , but I have no intentions of spreading anything .. because it simply doesn't matter. Perhaps you should have forged those friendships with fans many more yrs ago instead of airing your dislikes today. Hang ups about the past , there are plenty of other forums to talk about them in, and dead horse. And D-X, you totally go after jarmo. And Consistently he tells you its not about you!. Yet you make it about you. I think deep down you really want him to ban you, you go out of your way I think and he's not biting.lol Get over yourself.

As far as Ron, he's a big boy, its important for him to do the solo work he has neglected, and I suspect Axl is more than happy he does so, as I think he is with all his band members going out and doing whatever they want. I Think he isn't that big bad guy dictating anything , GNR has amassed a lot of music, and I believe that those that need to handle the process of getting it together in a package or packages to get out is what is at stake now. Again this goes to what the model is going to be. Could it be they are making sure(Axl, the record comp),  that maybe everything is mixed , mastered, ready to do, where GNR do go back out and tour that they won't need to stop , and have albums come out in a succession at a planned interval. Just my own speculations, but it could be. Things were fucked with CD, on that front we all know.

I've been here for a very long time, seen the band 28times since 87- now, and many people I know have seen them far more tahn I. I just happened to be there at the Limelight show, and Sundance on LI(first east coast appearance), the Ritz, in 88, thru every tour in the NY area, and Vegas, and Cali.Thru the lulls now after CD, is nothing and sometimes its a blessing to just RELAX, don't think to hard on it.lol I can't wait to hear what Ron, and Richard, and Frank, and Chris, and Dizzy,DJ and Tommy and even if there is Bucket, and Robin, on what is to come, its all GNR .

[jarmo]

The point, I think, if for people to express their feelings and see if there are other like-minded individuals (or if we're just crazy).  Like, I want to know if there are other people that think it's weird that, although songs have been recorded (an entire album or two - if you count the remix album as a separate album) yet for some reason it can't get released.  And, this same thing (songs done for years but seemingly impossible to get released) happened before with this band.

Ok. As I mentioned, I'm aware of feeling frustrated by something.
Anyway, this need for expression. You just want to express your feelings to see if anybody agrees and not have a discussion about it? That would explain a lot of why some people get so defensive when asked about what they are expressing.

Basically your idea of a fan forum is to go there to see if somebody else does not like the things you do not like about the band you claim to love? My idea of a fan forum is exactly the opposite! 

You also resort to this notion that we "constantly" put down the band and are always negative.  That (a) is not a fact, and (b) is not true.  Even public enemy #1 D-X has positive things to say about the band...but you dismiss them as he's using that as way to express his negativity agenda, or build up street cred with posters at other websites.

He chooses the words on his keyboard and that affects the way he wants to portray himself. I don't see somebody as overly positive and supportive if one paragraph out of four, or so, in a post is positive.
People who like to use the term track record shouldn't be surprised if the same term is used on them....

It suits your narrative to paint us all as negative, whining, reunion loving trolls, but that is just not true. 

Never claimed you are. Just think that you have a odd way of showing support. And some who claim to like discussion have an odd way of showing it.

To me, it's not weird to want this band to succeed, while at the same time, questioning some of their decisions (i.e. what's up with Ron, why do some members seem more excited for their "side" projects, why was Duff's interview canceled, how come answers are very cryptic - "we?re going to start looking very seriously at what we?re doing in that regard", etc.).

And most of the time when somebody tries to answer, it's met with "no"....

How do you expect me to act?

Like somebody who doesn't wake up every morning with a chip on their shoulder? 

You don't like the Las Vegas shows. Fine. Why keep going on and on about it? For a guy who posts about how it's not serious, it sure seems serious to you...
If I don't like something, I go "Meh, I don't like it". And move on to something I like.

If I don't like a song on an album by let's say Pearl Jam, I don't focus on that, I focus on the ones I like!

You don't get why the band doesn't release albums? Maybe you don't want to get it. It just seems like you're not interested in a discussion. You just wanna go on and on about the same things over and over again. Things you don't like. I don't find that constructive at all.

I am sorry. I am just a person discussing a rock band on a rock forum, idling my time away on a subject which has some curiosity for me. I have never been under any illusions that this would achieve anything.

At least you're honest.

Do you want me to lie about this stuff? It is just my opinion on GN'R on a GN'R forum which, presumably, is for GN'R discussions.

Most of the things listed are things you do not like. Doesn't it give the impression that maybe GN'R isn't the band you liked in the past anymore?
This is essentially what I was trying to get to. Regarding the pointless whining (in my opinion). If things are so horrible, maybe you need to look at yourself and think. Because to me, it seems like some are not happy about the band at all. They don't like the band member(s), the music, the shows. So basically nothing the band has done since 2008. And they're still going on and on about it.

never returned to Vegas or Brazil for awhile

What do you have against Brazil?




/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

You also resort to this notion that we "constantly" put down the band and are always negative.  That (a) is not a fact, and (b) is not true.  Even public enemy #1 D-X has positive things to say about the band...but you dismiss them as he's using that as way to express his negativity agenda, or build up street cred with posters at other websites.

He chooses the words on his keyboard and that affects the way he wants to portray himself. I don't see somebody as overly positive and supportive if one paragraph out of four, or so, in a post is positive.
People who like to use the term track record shouldn't be surprised if the same term is used on them....

We know.  You expect 4 for 4.

You often accuse people of reflexively "blaming the band" at all times.  I sort of see where you're coming from on the perception, but certainly don't agree with the vast array of things you consider to be negative hating.

But you reflexively blame the world, not the band.  No matter what comes up, you are alternate theory guy.  You never fail to come up with an array of alternate reasons some thing happened or didn't, but you can be damn sure it will never be that the band or Axl screwed up.

You see that as noble, loyal fandom.  Many of us see that as being a lapdog apologist.  That difference in perception is the crux of most disagreements around here.  The root of all conversations that go off the rails are once you start trying to tell people what sort of fan you consider them to be, as if anyone ever asked you.  Or cares.

[D-GenerationX]

Whats all the hate for the Vegas shows?  I like them actually, for what they are.  I have made many trips from Canada down to see them there, makes for a great time.  I would like them to switch up the venue though if they do it again...

I had no issues with the Las Vegas stage show.  Sure, it was over the top and a bit of a spectacle.  But that's Vegas.

Not for nothing, its also this band.  This is a band that has always employed stuff like that in their shows.  Pryo, inflatable monsters, strobe lights, lasers. 

I like that stuff at rock shows.  It should be a spectacle.

[pilferk]

I had no issues with the Las Vegas stage show.  Sure, it was over the top and a bit of a spectacle.  But that's Vegas.

Not for nothing, its also this band.  This is a band that has always employed stuff like that in their shows.  Pryo, inflatable monsters, strobe lights, lasers. 

I like that stuff at rock shows.  It should be a spectacle.

I didn't see the vegas shows, live (either time), but I've seen the vids (and own Appetite for Democracy....in 3D!!   ).

I DID see the Faith No More, Metallica, GnR stadium tour back in the early 90's, live (twice).

If you think the Vegas show was MORE of a spectacle, or had MORE showmanship, than that stadium tour...I would respectfully disagree.  This band was very much about the flash and pageantry during the UYI years.  Less so early in the AFD years, for sure...but even once that went HUGE....there it was.

Sure, there was a slightly different kind of "flash" with the vegas shows...but I think that was more about playing to the environment, than it was about being "more flashy" than in previous years/times.

If you don't like vegas..you don't like vegas.  But I wouldn't put that at the feet of the band, necessarily.

[D-GenerationX]

I agree the 1992 summer stadium tour is them at their most over the top.  And I loved it.

[Ginger King]

The point, I think, if for people to express their feelings and see if there are other like-minded individuals (or if we're just crazy).  Like, I want to know if there are other people that think it's weird that, although songs have been recorded (an entire album or two - if you count the remix album as a separate album) yet for some reason it can't get released.  And, this same thing (songs done for years but seemingly impossible to get released) happened before with this band.

Ok. As I mentioned, I'm aware of feeling frustrated by something.
Anyway, this need for expression. You just want to express your feelings to see if anybody agrees and not have a discussion about it? That would explain a lot of why some people get so defensive when asked about what they are expressing.

Basically your idea of a fan forum is to go there to see if somebody else does not like the things you do not like about the band you claim to love? My idea of a fan forum is exactly the opposite! 

Obviously I want to have discussion.  I hope that was an attempt at sarcasm.  But productive discussion, not just, you're not an insider, you don't have facts, you're not the record company kind of discussion.  That's pretty pointless, IMO.

To me, it's not weird to want this band to succeed, while at the same time, questioning some of their decisions (i.e. what's up with Ron, why do some members seem more excited for their "side" projects, why was Duff's interview canceled, how come answers are very cryptic - "we?re going to start looking very seriously at what we?re doing in that regard", etc.).

And most of the time when somebody tries to answer, it's met with "no"....

I don't recall you answering these questions.  Would love to here your responses.