"Next Album" rumor / speculation thread *UPDATE AUG 22/2023*

[Spirit]

Couple of things.  

So if Guns released a new album tomorrow and if was a remix album would you buy it.  Yes or no?

Would I?  Yes.

But despite the insane ramblings to the contrary of a few outliers, I am a monster diehard insane level fan.  I am not the barometer here.

The barometer here is the 3 million or whatever people that bought CD.  That was your argument, right?  Well, 3 million or whatever people are not buying a remix album.  Some of that 3 million bought their last GNR product on 11/23/08.

We can use the 3 million number if you like...  World wide sales are very hard to find, but I have read that 5 million world wide might be more accurate.   However take your 3 million,

So 3 million...   These are not casual fans...  These are people that I know that have bought the last product, as you said...   These are hard core fans...   These people liked CD, never head anyone who bought it complaining about it..   So I feel a good chunk of that 3 million will buy the remix...   But I feel the number is closer to 5 million..  

Also in the markets that I have mentioned earlier, Canada, Asia, Over seas....  South America.   I would argue that these markets are even stronger since the release of CD.   Only in the USA, are sales a problem.

I think you're overestimating the demand for a remix-album. Take NIN as an example:

"Year Zero" peaked at #2 in the US charts. The remix (released later same year) peaked at #77.
"The Fragile" peaked at #1 in the US charts. The remix (released the year after) peaked at #67.
"The Downward Spiral" peaked at #2 in the US charts. The remix (released the year after) peaked at #23.


NIN fans are pretty hardcore.

[Spirit]

Now, I'm not saying GN'R shouldn't release a remix album. But, don't get your hopes up for the commercial success of it.

Personally, I'll buy it.

[pilferk]

Why are the sales of a remix album an issue?

It's that serious? What happened to fun? Something different?





/jarmo

Because, as much as we dont want it to be, the labels main motivation is $$$. And a poor selling album is just one more thing you have to "overcome" in negotiating the release of new stuff.

Id just rather not see another potential stumbling block potentially put in front of them.

From a fan perspective....it just doesn't excite me. I mean...id prolly buy it.  But i find it..meh. Ymmv, and thats fine.

So what sales figures would you sale would deem a already paid for remix album a failure.  I would almost argue, not releasing it is costing them money

It cant cost the label money...and that includes whatever oart of the advance to the artist they want to attribute to it.

Indont know an exact Hard number. Prolly more than 500k in th us, more than 1.5 million or so worldwide. And i honestly think i might be lowballing. Anything less than that and the label is going to cry "loss" ( even if its not).

And, in todays market..that number is tough. You've had, i think, 2 albums in 2014 that touched 1 million units in the u.s....both by big,established pop acts.  500k is no sure thing anymore.

[D-GenerationX]

MB I have been watching a few too many Bret Hart 1997 anti usa wwf promos here, haha.   There truly is no real hate TheBaconman has for the USA.   I just feel its a shame, what was once the USAs greatest rock band, now has a hard time getting supported in its own country..   I don't care for the excuses, cause I really do blame the American fans for this..

It was going to be an uphill climb even under optimum conditions, but Axl put forth something a hell of a lot closer to minimal effort than he did optimum conditions.

Now, if you are going to go anti-America (which I know you are just joking about, for the record) I have to take a shot at the rest of the world, a bit.  They aren't exactly the most demanding folks, are they?  

Also have to realize that for these other countries, they are playing maybe a handful of cities there.  Sometimes, literally only one, whole country.  We have 50 states.  You have to sell your wares a bit.  You can't spend years hiding under your covers and then come out with a totally new band no one knows (and you've never taken one second to put over) and think we are all going to roll with it.

Do you HAVE to?  Of course not.  But you know what not doing it it winds up getting you?  "Up close and personal" tours, that's what.

I don't know the dates for that MJ remix album...  When did it come out?  Could be argued that his hard core audience was 3 million then and the causal fans where 47 million...

I think the argument is that the appeal for a remix album is very limited.

And if its limited for the biggest selling album of alltime, how is it possibly going to be better for an album that essentially made zero impact on the marketplace?

[pilferk]

Let me put it this way...as a stand alone, i would gridgingly part with my money for it.

As a bonus pack in, with a new album, as oart of a pricer, deluxe package (maybe limited edition??) i would pony up considerably more money than the "normal' version of same.

Does that logically make sense, given the sum totals might be roughly equivakent, or even tipoed toward the deluxe version? Nope..lbut its the way i feel.

If enough folks feel the same...and it really is pretty much done....thats the mght be the most value the band can get from it. It would certainly be where i feel, as the consumer, it gives me the most value...even if its just perception.

Perfectly stated.

Even with the massive typos thanks to my fat fingers and ipad keyboard.

[D-GenerationX]

I think you're overestimating the demand for a remix-album. Take NIN as an example:

"Year Zero" peaked at #2 in the US charts. The remix (released later same year) peaked at #77.
"The Fragile" peaked at #1 in the US charts. The remix (released the year after) peaked at #67.
"The Downward Spiral" peaked at #2 in the US charts. The remix (released the year after) peaked at #23.


NIN fans are pretty hardcore.

Spot on.

[D-GenerationX]

Let me put it this way...as a stand alone, i would gridgingly part with my money for it.

As a bonus pack in, with a new album, as oart of a pricer, deluxe package (maybe limited edition??) i would pony up considerably more money than the "normal' version of same.

Does that logically make sense, given the sum totals might be roughly equivakent, or even tipoed toward the deluxe version? Nope..lbut its the way i feel.

If enough folks feel the same...and it really is pretty much done....thats the mght be the most value the band can get from it. It would certainly be where i feel, as the consumer, it gives me the most value...even if its just perception.

Perfectly stated.

Even with the massive typos thanks to my fat fingers and ipad keyboard.

Hahaha

Hey, we all type fast when the conversation gets going like this.  Mistakes are made.

[ice cream sand pig]

Is it really that risky though Pilferk? I'm not sure it would be if the remix album didn't cost much to make. If it was made as a gift to hardcore fans of CD then it's intended audience might be let down a little if it wasn't a standalone. For example, if it was a standalone release it might receive more attention (as far as the book/case/bonus stuff goes) whereas if it was a bonus disc tacked onto the next album, it might not be anything more than a disc.

Honestly I'd be happy either way but I'm starting to think a standalone thing would be more up my alley.

[pilferk]

Couple of things.  

So if Guns released a new album tomorrow and if was a remix album would you buy it.  Yes or no?

Would I?  Yes.

But despite the insane ramblings to the contrary of a few outliers, I am a monster diehard insane level fan.  I am not the barometer here.

The barometer here is the 3 million or whatever people that bought CD.  That was your argument, right?  Well, 3 million or whatever people are not buying a remix album.  Some of that 3 million bought their last GNR product on 11/23/08.

We can use the 3 million number if you like...  World wide sales are very hard to find, but I have read that 5 million world wide might be more accurate.   However take your 3 million,

So 3 million...   These are not casual fans...  These are people that I know that have bought the last product, as you said...   These are hard core fans...   These people liked CD, never head anyone who bought it complaining about it..   So I feel a good chunk of that 3 million will buy the remix...   But I feel the number is closer to 5 million..  

Also in the markets that I have mentioned earlier, Canada, Asia, Over seas....  South America.   I would argue that these markets are even stronger since the release of CD.   Only in the USA, are sales a problem.

There are sources out there that have actually checked the recording industry counts of all the countries. Dona google search. Some exist on "verboten" sites (those which must not be named). They add up to about 2.8 million. Their are countries left out...but they typically account for about 10% of album sales.

That puts us just over 3 mill.

Theres no reason to "feel" this one. There are hard numbers.

They dont, obviously, account for shares and illegal dls.

[pilferk]

I just want to point something out in relation to sales figures for cd.

Last time i checked...which was admittedly awhile ago, cd had sold roughly 700k copies in the u.s (thats sell through...there were over a million copies shipped). No other single coutries recording association reported as many sales. Total global sales was around 3 million.

You can argue thats low, per capita...but it was still the largest single "country" market.

You can argue back and forth about what the adoption rate of a remix album might be, but lets not minimize what the us market ultimately means to an album.

Good points, all around. 

Would you agree that CD failed to sell well in the united states?  The worlds second largest market?   

I would say the people that bought it are, the hard core fans.   I doubt any casual fans in the usa, bought the album

I bet these same hard core fans will buy the remix....

If they don't then the United states market is even sadder than I thought

I would, though we would likely differ on exactly why that was. But, in any case...i dont think it sold that well.

But you made a point that the us isnt their market. Thats really what i was addressing. It has to be, simply based on shher number of units.

And we can agree to disagree on whether those same 700k buyers all bite again. I think that number drops by sbout 30% or more for a remix...but thats just my humble opinion. I also think you did have some number of lookee loos and folks who had heard about the mythical cd that bought it.  Just the urban legend alone spurned some buys, imho....though maybe more illegal dls than that.

If the USA was there market right now, they could do a east to west arena tour....   They cant...

Canada, they could, Asia, over seas, south America they could do this...   If anything, there concerts would sell way more..

Do you actually think the united states is Guns N Roses strongest market right now?

Again, its a sheer number of units. You cant ignore the market where 25% or more of your units sell. The label would kill you.

Concerts are different..thats culture and economy at work as much as anything else.

[D-GenerationX]

Again, its a sheer number of units. You cant ignore the market where 25% or more of your units sell. The label would kill you.

Hahaha

Pretty much.

[pilferk]

Is it really that risky though Pilferk? I'm not sure it would be if the remix album didn't cost much to make. If it was made as a gift to hardcore fans of CD then it's intended audience might be let down a little if it wasn't a standalone. For example, if it was a standalone release it might receive more attention (as far as the book/case/bonus stuff goes) whereas if it was a bonus disc tacked onto the next album, it might not be anything more than a disc.

Honestly I'd be happy either way but I'm starting to think a standalone thing would be more up my alley.

Risky in the sense it could throw more roadblocks, or contention with the label, with new material and future releases.

If the label goes in with the mindset that its going to be a break even reintroduction, to maybe raise awareness for the next album...maybe. But honestly...i just dont think they would operate that way. They see $$. Thats the ultimate truth. If its not gonna make dukats, its a failure.

[ice cream sand pig]

But if they only see money and it is already done, wouldn't that mean they would want to make some cash by releasing it as opposed to give it away for free with the next album (reconsidering my stance, I do admit that it may be a risk putting money into producing special packaging and all that)? I don't understand the possible contention with the label aspect, could you go into that some?

[D-GenerationX]

Risky in the sense it could throw more roadblocks, or contention with the label, with new material and future releases.

If the label goes in with the mindset that its going to be a break even reintroduction, to msybe raise awareness for the next slbum...maybe. But honestly...i just dont think they would operate that way. They see $$. Thats the ultimate truth. If its not gonna make dukats, its a failure.

If it don't make dollaz, it don't make sense.

No business is in the business of losing money.

[D-GenerationX]

But if they only see money and it is already done, wouldn't that mean they would want to make some cash by releasing it as opposed to give it away for free with the next album (reconsidering my stance, I do admit that it may be a risk putting money into producing special packaging and all that)? I don't understand the possible contention with the label aspect, could you go into that some?

You still have to pay to press it, ship it, promote it.  Those are costs they have to put out on spec, in the hopes a profit is turned.

A standalone remix album is no sure thing. 

[ice cream sand pig]

Yeah, I guess selling it as a digital download without any real promotion would be the only real risk free endeavor.

[Spirit]

Is it really that risky though Pilferk? I'm not sure it would be if the remix album didn't cost much to make. If it was made as a gift to hardcore fans of CD then it's intended audience might be let down a little if it wasn't a standalone. For example, if it was a standalone release it might receive more attention (as far as the book/case/bonus stuff goes) whereas if it was a bonus disc tacked onto the next album, it might not be anything more than a disc.

Honestly I'd be happy either way but I'm starting to think a standalone thing would be more up my alley.

Risky in the sense it could throw more roadblocks, or contention with the label, with new material and future releases.

If the label goes in with the mindset that its going to be a break even reintroduction, to msybe raise awareness for the next slbum...maybe. But honestly...i just dont think they would operate that way. They see $$. Thats the ultimate truth. If its not gonna make dukats, its a failure.

I think the label probably have people who are aware of the potential of a stand-alone remix album release. If it is indeed released as such, the commercial performance would probably contain no surprises. Personally I think, if it is released before the new album, it'll be an all-digital release or part of some sort of special edition package. This would probably maximize its commercial appeal.

If the next album is in fact Chinese (part 2), I could see a remix album being released at a later time as part of a package with CD 1&2.

[D-GenerationX]

If the next album is in fact Chinese (part 2), I could see a remix album being released at a later time as part of a package with CD 1&2.

Yeah, that's a good point.  Decent idea.

[ice cream sand pig]

^^ Hate the idea, want it now haha. But yeah, good points all around on everyone's behalf.

[TheBaconman]

MB I have been watching a few too many Bret Hart 1997 anti usa wwf promos here, haha.   There truly is no real hate TheBaconman has for the USA.   I just feel its a shame, what was once the USAs greatest rock band, now has a hard time getting supported in its own country..   I don't care for the excuses, cause I really do blame the American fans for this..

It was going to be an uphill climb even under optimum conditions, but Axl put forth something a hell of a lot closer to minimal effort than he did optimum conditions.

Now, if you are going to go anti-America (which I know you are just joking about, for the record) I have to take a shot at the rest of the world, a bit.  They aren't exactly the most demanding folks, are they?  

Also have to realize that for these other countries, they are playing maybe a handful of cities there.  Sometimes, literally only one, whole country.  We have 50 states.  You have to sell your wares a bit.  You can't spend years hiding under your covers and then come out with a totally new band no one knows (and you've never taken one second to put over) and think we are all going to roll with it.

Do you HAVE to?  Of course not.  But you know what not doing it it winds up getting you?  "Up close and personal" tours, that's what.

I don't know the dates for that MJ remix album...  When did it come out?  Could be argued that his hard core audience was 3 million then and the causal fans where 47 million...

I think the argument is that the appeal for a remix album is very limited.

And if its limited for the biggest selling album of alltime, how is it possibly going to be better for an album that essentially made zero impact on the marketplace?

Are you actually trying to blame Axl for the lack of success in the usa now?  Who is in there own vacuum now.   This band should of been the usa version of the rolling stones ( a band with multiple band member changes), but yet the "needy" American culture has pasted on them

Its not a bad thing though.   I will be happy to support them once again up here in Canada, when they go on a massive arena tour again..

You guys still have Bon Jovi...  hahahahah