"Next Album" rumor / speculation thread *UPDATE AUG 22/2023*

[TheBaconman]

Exactly, and to me, this is the best case scenario, meaning releasing it as a bonus - whether it be on a re-issue of Chinese or for the next album.

Bonus, as in more released stuff.
Imagine, you get remixes AND a new album with songs we haven't heard. Two new releases to spend your cash on and listen.... Horrible right?


Only certain GN'R fans would now start whining about it before it's even out.
Did Live Era upset those fans? How about "The Spagetti Incident?"?




/jarmo

I call these fans the "needy" American fans.   Where really deep down inside, I think they are all top 40 lovers....

[TheBaconman]

I just want to point something out in relation to sales figures for cd.

Last time i checked...which was admittedly awhile ago, cd had sold roughly 700k copies in the u.s (thats sell through...there were over a million copies shipped). No other single coutries recording association reported as many sales. Total global sales was around 3 million.

You can argue thats low, per capita...but it was still the largest single "country" market.

You can argue back and forth about what the adoption rate of a remix album might be, but lets not minimize what the us market ultimately means to an album.

Good points, all around. 

Would you agree that CD failed to sell well in the united states?  The worlds second largest market?   

I would say the people that bought it are, the hard core fans.   I doubt any casual fans in the usa, bought the album

I bet these same hard core fans will buy the remix....

If they don't then the United states market is even sadder than I thought

[TheBaconman]

Why not on its own?

A bonus with another album wouldn't make 100% sense. Since they aren't remixes of those songs. Unless it's some kind of reissue of Chinese Democracy....



/jarmo

Honestly? Because i don't think theres enough of a market for it. And i think a relatively poor selling remix album would be worse for everyone involved. But thats just me.

As for "making sense"...meh. I've seen eps included ( some with previous tracks, remixed,like with evanescence) and even gh albums (def leppard with x) as part of deluxe packages. I dont think a remix album strays so far afield from those things to be completely crazy/out of the blue.

There isn't a market for It where??  Guns call sell out concerts world wide, I am sure there is a market for anything guns related in some areas

[TheBaconman]

Why are the sales of a remix album an issue?

It's that serious? What happened to fun? Something different?





/jarmo

Because, as much as we dont want it to be, the labels main motivation is $$$. And a poor selling album is just one more thing you have to "overcome" in negotiating the release of new stuff.

Id just rather not see another potential stumbling block potentially put in front of them.

From a fan perspective....it just doesn't excite me. I mean...id prolly buy it.  But i find it..meh. Ymmv, and thats fine.

So what sales figures would you sale would deem a already paid for remix album a failure.  I would almost argue, not releasing it is costing them money

[TheBaconman]

Exactly, and to me, this is the best case scenario, meaning releasing it as a bonus - whether it be on a re-issue of Chinese or for the next album.  I mentioned that putting this out on a special CD edition might be cool, and a fun way to boost sales of the physical copies to boot, while also focusing on the digital release of the album.  Lotsa possibilities.

Yeah, you issue a special edition / collector's edition / weirdo completist version.  Whatever you want to call it.

Its just not going to be for everybody.  If we here were given the chance of a single disc album versus a 2 CD version with the album and other stuff, yes, we here are taking that.  But you are into hardcore fans only at that point.

If you put out just the remix as a standalone, few care.  I don't know the number, but its low.  And its certainly has to be less than the number that would buy a new album.  That's just math.

It would be an odd business move, to say the least.  The time for a standalone has passed.  Did Trent Reznor release 'Further Down The Spiral' 7 years later?  Of course not.  It was out the next year.

But, just to be clear, I don't think this remix thing even happens.   

So do you actually think a new music release of a album will sell that much more???  Especially in the united states....  Is there casual fans, on hot standby for some sort of release there.. 

Nope

[TheBaconman]

If you guys cant tell I really want to hear this remix album!  hahahaha

[draguns]

I must commend Pilferk and DX for a really good exchange of posts a few pages back. It was quite refreshing to read those now.

[TheBaconman]

I must commend Pilferk and DX for a really good exchange of posts a few pages back. It was quite refreshing to read those now.

Glad I started it

[pilferk]

To be clear..l wouldn't be mad. Id only be disappointed in relation to comparing it to new music. Id peg my reaction more toward ambivalence...with my primary reason to purchase it....much like with SI...attributed to my burning need to be a completionist collector.

I'd be in the same camp.  I assume anyone still coming here every day is in that camp.

But your point about ambivalence rings true, I think.  How is it not deflating?

Hey, my favorite band took 10 years to put on one 14 track album.  Then, given 7 more years...they remixed that album.  Woo-hoo!  BIG THINGS AHEAD, PEOPLE

If we have to live in a world where that is considered progress, because progress is defined as literally anything that is better than nothing...our world is a sad place.  I tend to have higher bars in life.

I just want to clarify...my ambivalent, i meant neither positive or negatively. Like...meh.

I wouldnt feel "deflated" exactly, either. But i'd peg the amp at 5, while with new music it would be punched up to 11.

[ice cream sand pig]

Why are the sales of a remix album an issue?

It's that serious? What happened to fun? Something different?





/jarmo

Can't agree enough here. Sure, it might not be the best selling album of all time but it would sure as hell make me happy! I'm with Bacon, I want this thing bad!

I wasn't sure about how complicated the release would be because I thought there might be a lot of costs the band/record company would have to recoup somehow but now I'm hearing from some people that the costs of production may not have been all that high. Not to mention they don't exactly have to put money into promoting it and I'm guessing a lot of the legal hoops they would have to jump through have already been jumped through when the songs were initially released. If they want to release it as a standalone record for the fans that loved CD as a kind of bonus or "love letter" as sofine articulately described, I think that would be pretty swell of them. To further the love letter idea, maybe it could contain more artwork and additional info about the songs/other random bonus stuff.

I also agree that it makes sense to combine the remix with the next album if they want to do that instead. Especially considering it's the second half of CD.

'CD Remix: Cantonese Dialect' (fake title obviously) starts soon (I hope)!!!!

[pilferk]

Because, as much as we dont want it to be, the labels main motivation is $$$. And a poor selling album is just one more thing you have to "overcome" in negotiating the release of new stuff.

Of course.
But I think most would only see that album as a fun bonus. Considering it's already mostly done. They probably won't spend money promoting it...

It's not gonna make the supportive clique who were reminding us of how often GN'R cancels shows before the latest Las Vegas run or who claim to know how business works, happier... But that's not even the point.



/jarmo

Let me put it this way...as a stand alone, i would gridgingly part with my money for it.

As a bonus pack in, with a new album, as oart of a pricer, deluxe package (maybe limited edition??) i would pony up considerably more money than the "normal' version of same.

Does that logically make sense, given the sum totals might be roughly equivakent, or even tipoed toward the deluxe version? Nope..lbut its the way i feel.

If enough folks feel the same...and it really is pretty much done....thats the mght be the most value the band can get from it. It would certainly be where i feel, as the consumer, it gives me the most value...even if its just perception.

[D-GenerationX]

Would you agree that CD failed to sell well in the united states?  The worlds second largest market?

I would agree with that.  

I would say the people that bought it are, the hard core fans.   I doubt any casual fans in the usa, bought the album

I bet these same hard core fans will buy the remix....

If they don't then the United states market is even sadder than I thought

I'm not sure where all this "Death To The America" stuff is coming from all the sudden.  What's all that about?

But let me ask you something.  This theory you are pitching, where fans of an album buy the remix album.  Is that true for other artists?  Where is this happening?  Are there other examples of that theory in action?

'Thriller' is the best selling album ever.  They put out 'Thriller 25', which was a remix album, but even with some new stuff on it too.  Know what it sold?  3 million copies.  Know what 'Thriller' sold?  About 50 million.

Did the Michael Jackson fans drop the ball in your opinion?  Or was there just not crazy demand for it?  And this was the best selling album EVER we are talking, here.

[pilferk]

Exactly, and to me, this is the best case scenario, meaning releasing it as a bonus - whether it be on a re-issue of Chinese or for the next album.

Bonus, as in more released stuff.
Imagine, you get remixes AND a new album with songs we haven't heard. Two new releases to spend your cash on and listen.... Horrible right?


Only certain GN'R fans would now start whining about it before it's even out.
Did Live Era upset those fans? How about "The Spagetti Incident?"?




/jarmo

Live era? Nope.

Spaghetti incident? Yeah, to be honest. With a couple exceptions...its just not my cup of tea. And i was aware when i bought it that it wouldnt be. But...i own it.

But I wouldnt complain about it...not before or after. I just chalk it up to not my thing.

[D-GenerationX]

Let me put it this way...as a stand alone, i would gridgingly part with my money for it.

As a bonus pack in, with a new album, as oart of a pricer, deluxe package (maybe limited edition??) i would pony up considerably more money than the "normal' version of same.

Does that logically make sense, given the sum totals might be roughly equivakent, or even tipoed toward the deluxe version? Nope..lbut its the way i feel.

If enough folks feel the same...and it really is pretty much done....thats the mght be the most value the band can get from it. It would certainly be where i feel, as the consumer, it gives me the most value...even if its just perception.

Perfectly stated.

[TheBaconman]

Couple of things.  

So if Guns released a new album tomorrow and if was a remix album would you buy it.  Yes or no?

Would I?  Yes.

But despite the insane ramblings to the contrary of a few outliers, I am a monster diehard insane level fan.  I am not the barometer here.

The barometer here is the 3 million or whatever people that bought CD.  That was your argument, right?  Well, 3 million or whatever people are not buying a remix album.  Some of that 3 million bought their last GNR product on 11/23/08.

We can use the 3 million number if you like...  World wide sales are very hard to find, but I have read that 5 million world wide might be more accurate.   However take your 3 million,

So 3 million...   These are not casual fans...  These are people that I know that have bought the last product, as you said...   These are hard core fans...   These people liked CD, never head anyone who bought it complaining about it..   So I feel a good chunk of that 3 million will buy the remix...   But I feel the number is closer to 5 million..  

Also in the markets that I have mentioned earlier, Canada, Asia, Over seas....  South America.   I would argue that these markets are even stronger since the release of CD.   Only in the USA, are sales a problem.

[pilferk]

I just want to point something out in relation to sales figures for cd.

Last time i checked...which was admittedly awhile ago, cd had sold roughly 700k copies in the u.s (thats sell through...there were over a million copies shipped). No other single coutries recording association reported as many sales. Total global sales was around 3 million.

You can argue thats low, per capita...but it was still the largest single "country" market.

You can argue back and forth about what the adoption rate of a remix album might be, but lets not minimize what the us market ultimately means to an album.

Good points, all around. 

Would you agree that CD failed to sell well in the united states?  The worlds second largest market?   

I would say the people that bought it are, the hard core fans.   I doubt any casual fans in the usa, bought the album

I bet these same hard core fans will buy the remix....

If they don't then the United states market is even sadder than I thought

I would, though we would likely differ on exactly why that was. But, in any case...i dont think it sold that well.

But you made a point that the us isnt their market. Thats really what i was addressing. It has to be, simply based on shher number of units.

And we can agree to disagree on whether those same 700k buyers all bite again. I think that number drops by sbout 30% or more for a remix...but thats just my humble opinion. I also think you did have some number of lookee loos and folks who had heard about the mythical cd that bought it.  Just the urban legend alone spurned some buys, imho....though maybe more illegal dls than that.

[TheBaconman]

Would you agree that CD failed to sell well in the united states?  The worlds second largest market?

I would agree with that.  

I would say the people that bought it are, the hard core fans.   I doubt any casual fans in the usa, bought the album

I bet these same hard core fans will buy the remix....

If they don't then the United states market is even sadder than I thought

I'm not sure where all this "Death To The America" stuff is coming from all the sudden.  What's all that about?

But let me ask you something.  This theory you are pitching, where fans of an album buy the remix album.  Is that true for other artists?  Where is this happening?  Are there other examples of that theory in action?

'Thriller' is the best selling album ever.  They put out 'Thriller 25', which was a remix album, but even with some new stuff on it too.  Know what it sold?  3 million copies.  Know what 'Thriller' sold?  About 50 million.

Did the Michael Jackson fans drop the ball in your opinion?  Or was there just not crazy demand for it?  And this was the best selling album EVER we are talking, here.

MB I have been watching a few too many Bret Hart 1997 anti usa wwf promos here, haha.   There truly is no real hate TheBaconman has for the USA.   I just feel its a shame, what was once the USAs greatest rock band, now has a hard time getting supported in its own country..   I don't care for the excuses, cause I really do blame the American fans for this..

I don't know the dates for that MJ remix album...  When did it come out?  Could be argued that his hard core audience was 3 million then and the causal fans where 47 million...

[D-GenerationX]

Live era? Nope.

Spaghetti incident? Yeah, to be honest. With a couple exceptions...its just not my cup of tea. And i was aware when i bought it that it wouldnt be. But...i own it.

Same here.  Got 'em both.  I imagine we all do.

A few tunes on 'TSI?', I really like.  But not to the level I enjoy their original material.

'Live Era' though, total mess.  Any bootleg collector can tell you that. There are any number of soundboard quality things you could have just released, as is, that were awesome.  Why he re-recorded all those vocals, thus defeating the entire concept of a live album, I'll never know.  Not one song is better off for it.

Now, you never bought/downloaded a concert bootlegs, perhaps you were none the wiser.  But if you did, and had been listening to the actual versons of the songs they doctored up for the live albums for years, it was like reading a book you really liked only to see the movie and find they changed the ending.

[pilferk]

Why not on its own?

A bonus with another album wouldn't make 100% sense. Since they aren't remixes of those songs. Unless it's some kind of reissue of Chinese Democracy....



/jarmo

Honestly? Because i don't think theres enough of a market for it. And i think a relatively poor selling remix album would be worse for everyone involved. But thats just me.

As for "making sense"...meh. I've seen eps included ( some with previous tracks, remixed,like with evanescence) and even gh albums (def leppard with x) as part of deluxe packages. I dont think a remix album strays so far afield from those things to be completely crazy/out of the blue.

There isn't a market for It where??  Guns call sell out concerts world wide, I am sure there is a market for anything guns related in some areas

Yeah, there is a difference between the two. A big one. I know a lot of folks who will go see a live show for established acts, but wont touch buying their new material, never mind a stand alone album of remixes. Gh's, maybe.  Look at some of those big touring acts recent material sales....they arent all great.

Its risky. I just dont see a huge demand or outcry for it. Maybe if they build it, they will come. I have my doubts...

[TheBaconman]

I just want to point something out in relation to sales figures for cd.

Last time i checked...which was admittedly awhile ago, cd had sold roughly 700k copies in the u.s (thats sell through...there were over a million copies shipped). No other single coutries recording association reported as many sales. Total global sales was around 3 million.

You can argue thats low, per capita...but it was still the largest single "country" market.

You can argue back and forth about what the adoption rate of a remix album might be, but lets not minimize what the us market ultimately means to an album.

Good points, all around. 

Would you agree that CD failed to sell well in the united states?  The worlds second largest market?   

I would say the people that bought it are, the hard core fans.   I doubt any casual fans in the usa, bought the album

I bet these same hard core fans will buy the remix....

If they don't then the United states market is even sadder than I thought

I would, though we would likely differ on exactly why that was. But, in any case...i dont think it sold that well.

But you made a point that the us isnt their market. Thats really what i was addressing. It has to be, simply based on shher number of units.

And we can agree to disagree on whether those same 700k buyers all bite again. I think that number drops by sbout 30% or more for a remix...but thats just my humble opinion. I also think you did have some number of lookee loos and folks who had heard about the mythical cd that bought it.  Just the urban legend alone spurned some buys, imho....though maybe more illegal dls than that.

If the USA was there market right now, they could do a east to west arena tour....   They cant...

Canada, they could, Asia, over seas, south America they could do this...   If anything, there concerts would sell way more..

Do you actually think the united states is Guns N Roses strongest market right now?