"Next Album" rumor / speculation thread *UPDATE AUG 22/2023*

[TheBaconman]

You consistently twist and misinterpret what I say and mix and match several of my arguments, then try and force me to address your false premise. 

That's what you always say. And I keep showing you the quotes, and you keep ignoring what you said. We're used to it. You're never wrong because you ignore posts or questions you don't want to answer and so on. We know it. Every time something comes up to proves you were wrong about something, you make a so called joke or ignore it. Like it never happened. Common tactic of smart asses who think they can never be wrong. Nothing new.

But in this case, you claim you're no expert. I pointed out that it's not how you come across with your posts. And tried to offer a suggestion on how to avoid that kind of situations in the future. And what happens? You paint yourself as the poor victim once again.

So in short: If you want to make claims such as "I'm not an expert" and want to convince us, please refrain from comments such as "that's not how it works" relating to subjects you know nothing or very little about. Thank you.

But really, that strengthens my point that the album should of been release way back in 2001-2.  But I don't want to start that debate

In a perfect world where everything goes amazingly, maybe that could've been possible. Unfortunately we live in the real world where things don't always go as planned/hoped, and that discussion is a completely different topic altogether. So thanks.  



/jarmo

Speak for yourseld, but TheBaconman lives in a fantasy world, kinda like a fairy tail..   Everything goes right here...  Usually.  

Really though, I was just saying, That's what I would of wanted.....    A early 2000s release.  I am sure there are many good reasons why we never got it.  But it doesn't change my mind with, that what I wanted.  Just like most of us, want new music now!  We are aware there is various reasons why we don't have it.  

But I will save this for another thread topic, like you have asked.

[D-GenerationX]

Today, you were proven to be wrong about how record companies actually refuse to release albums occasionally.
Good day, you learned something new. Maybe you'll remember it tomorrow. Or not since you're never wrong... 

I can't believe I'm being sucked back into this.  Jesus, I have no willpower.

The original post was that I rejected that the label was fucking with him for the hell of it.  And they aren't going to refuse to release things for spite after spending so much on it.

For all your wizardry with the quote feature, you seemed to have missed that one, ace.  An honest oversight, I'm sure.

Yet from there, you give me this condescending history lesson about labels rejecting things.  Which...might have been relevant if they were example about the label fucking with the artist for the hell of it, which has been suggested here many, many, many times.  And its nonsense.

This would be a prime example of what I meant.  You take something I said, misinterpret it, give me a non-related answer to it...then demand I kneel before Zod.

Please.

[TheBaconman]

So I don't know if I heard any of the 1999 versions...  However, I know Bucket didn't join the band until late 1999, so what was on that 1999 version, really didn't include him, I am guessing.
I say this as I feel, his songs had the strongest influence on the album, to me.  So what was reported finished around 2001, I would of loved to seen released then.

I don't even know if I still have them, but I had versions of 'I.R.S.' and 'There Was A Time' that were pretty rough sounding demos.

But I have seen people swear that is what should have been released.  I'm often quick to chide Axl for all the wasted time, but those suckers clearly weren't ready.

So that was the period when Robin was the sole lead guitar player?

Ya I will give Axl credit for his Guns vision.  A lot of people thought he was crazy for having two lead guitar players, but it sure worked out well for both the recording process and also live shows

[jarmo]

Nobody's debating that us fans would've loved albums in 1997, 2001, 2005, 2008, 2010 and so on.  
But things didn't happen that way and even though they didn't, things haven't been as shitty as some seem to think.

A lot of things have happened in the last six years.

I can't believe I'm being sucked back into this.  Jesus, I have no willpower.

Yet again, poor you.
You keep REPLYING to my posts. Multiple times. Only when you're at this point, when there's no more discussion, because you were wrong, do you point out the so called misunderstanding.
Normally people would point out the misunderstanding ASAP. Not you, it's only your last defense. Yet another thing that doesn't work in your favor regarding your words versus your actions.



And no, I never claimed the label was doing something out of spite. I don't know that. I couldn't say for sure that nothing was ever done out of spite, or not. I do know people have egos.

But if your opinion is based on "that's not how business works", after reading those links provided to you earlier, maybe you'd change your opinion?



/jarmo

[TheBaconman]

Today, you were proven to be wrong about how record companies actually refuse to release albums occasionally.
Good day, you learned something new. Maybe you'll remember it tomorrow. Or not since you're never wrong... 

I can't believe I'm being sucked back into this.  Jesus, I have no willpower.

The original post was that I rejected that the label was fucking with him for the hell of it.  And they aren't going to refuse to release things for spite after spending so much on it.

For all your wizardry with the quote feature, you seemed to have missed that one, ace.  An honest oversight, I'm sure.

Yet from there, you give me this condescending history lesson about labels rejecting things.  Which...might have been relevant if they were example about the label fucking with the artist for the hell of it, which has been suggested here many, many, many times.  And its nonsense.

This would be a prime example of what I meant.  You take something I said, misinterpret it, give me a non-related answer to it...then demand I kneel before Zod.

Please.

I don't think labels ever fuck with artists just for the sake of fucking with them either.  However, Its all about money.   If its going to cost label more money to release and promote and album than what they expect to get back in return, why would they release it?  If I had to go into work, but it cost me more to drive there than I was going to make, why would I do that?

I don't think the labels care to much about a artists vision   They care about the bottom line.  Money.   Now I have heard the argument that many labels allow there artists to release "Artsy" albums, or solo albums, or "concept" albums..   I stress this is only in hopes of appeasing that said artist and only when there is a possibility of a major payday for the label from the main band.   No major pay day for the label equals zero label support

[TheBaconman]

Nobody's debating that us fans would've loved albums in 1997, 2001, 2005, 2008, 2010 and so on.  
But things didn't happen that way and even though they didn't, things haven't been as shitty as some seem to think.

A lot of things have happened in the last six years.

I can't believe I'm being sucked back into this.  Jesus, I have no willpower.

Yet again, poor you.
You keep REPLYING to my posts. Multiple times. Only when you're at this point, when there's no more discussion, because you were wrong, do you point out the so called misunderstanding.
Normally people would point out the misunderstanding ASAP. Not you, it's only your last defense. Yet another thing that doesn't work in your favor regarding your words versus your actions.



And no, I never claimed the label was doing something out of spite. I don't know that. I couldn't say for sure that nothing was ever done out of spite, or not. I do know people have egos.

But if your opinion is based on "that's not how business works", after reading those links provided to you earlier, maybe you'd change your opinion?



/jarmo

I havnt seen to many posts here from people saying the past 6 years have been shitty and if I did I would call them on it. 

I personally think they could of been better, with the release of new music, etc.  BUT...   I have travelled to some great cities in those years and have seen some of the best concerts of my life in those years.   To me the past 6 years have been a blast!  I am also a big fan of the current bands line up.   Love the new blue ray, etc.. 

[GNR2014]

Axl Rose has done his share of blocking albums, right? Rapidfire, Made in Stoke, Guns N' Roses Greatest Hits, etc.

[TheBaconman]

Axl Rose has done his share of blocking albums, right? Rapidfire, Made in Stoke, Guns N' Roses Greatest Hits, etc.

Hahaha what was the point of that?   

Many artists/bands have "blocked" the relase of un authorized material.  I don't blame them at all.  It's all about protecting the brand.  And the value of the brand and also stopping people from making money off the efforts of them.   Hell it's not just bands that due this.   But anyone that owns a brand or property trys to protect it and it's value.  If they don't they would be fools

Also it wasn't just Axl or his camp that tried to block the release of the greatest hits album, but also Duff and Slash.    In retrospect I wonder though what all three of there opinions of its release would be today.   After the massive success of it and the ton of cash everyone made off of it

[D-GenerationX]

So that was the period when Robin was the sole lead guitar player?

Ya I will give Axl credit for his Guns vision.  A lot of people thought he was crazy for having two lead guitar players, but it sure worked out well for both the recording process and also live shows

Yep, and sort of sounded like a drum machine too, to be honest.

[D-GenerationX]

But if your opinion is based on "that's not how business works", after reading those links provided to you earlier, maybe you'd change your opinion?

OK, we are going to break this down s u p e r  s l o w :

The original "that's not how business works" was about how labels don't fuck with artists out of spite.

Here it is :

Very true.

Which is why I never bought the theory that the label is fucking with him.

They've already paid for this stuff.  They are keeping it under wraps, why?  Spite?  That's not how business works.

From this, you give me a bunch of examples of labels rejecting things.  Which would be swell if you were answering a post of mine that said "labels never reject anything, don't be ridiculous".  But it wasn't about that.

My post, once again, was about spite and fucking with him.  Since it seems you missed this, I further clarified :

And just as an addendum, I believe what I have actually been pushing back against is this notion the label is out to get him and fucking with him.

If he turned something in they felt was crap (no proof of this) that's not really the same thing, is it?  I'm more in the camp they haven't heard from the guy in awhile.  Not that he works tirelessly to turn shit in only to have it sent back to him.

From that, you double back down with the same irrelevant answers about how labels reject things and I don't know shit about shit.  Never my point.  My point, once again, was that they don't reject them for the hell of it.

So, to sum up, one mis-interpretation, I can buy.  Still being confused after a correction, hey, maybe I can buy that too.

But to keep pressing on a third time (and beyond) with your incorrect interpretation just shows you aren't interested in anything but a fight.  There is no other plausible explanation. 

Given you repeated practice of this bullshit, I have been more patient about it than you deserved.  But I'm done with it now. 

Read this post, read it again, read it out loud, have someone read it to you.  Don't care which.  But that's it.

[D-GenerationX]

Also it wasn't just Axl or his camp that tried to block the release of the greatest hits album, but also Duff and Slash.    In retrospect I wonder though what all three of there opinions of its release would be today.   After the massive success of it and the ton of cash everyone made off of it

One of their beefs, I believe, was the tracklist.  Its hard to argue with them.

I happen to really like 'Ain't It Fun'.  I even like 'Sympathy'.  But are they essential GNR tracks that go on a "best of" collection?

[TheBaconman]

So that was the period when Robin was the sole lead guitar player?

Ya I will give Axl credit for his Guns vision.  A lot of people thought he was crazy for having two lead guitar players, but it sure worked out well for both the recording process and also live shows

Yep, and sort of sounded like a drum machine too, to be honest.

One day, in the future....   Once all this new/all ready recorded music gets released.  Once we get a new album.  I would just love for Axl to release a boxed set containing all the tracks that have been recorded over the years, in there original forms..  Anything that is already recorded, that just wouldn't sound good and a stand alone album.  One big box set.

This wouldn't include this remix album that I keep hearing about...  That should in its self, be its own album release.  

So this is what I would like to see them do...  Mind you my mind does change daily.   I would have them release a album of what they have recorded now..   Then write a new album with the current line up.  While they are writing that album, release the remix album.  Once they write the new material release that, then tour like mother fuckers.   While touring now and after these 3 new albums have been released for a while.   Release this box set I have mentioned.    

[TheBaconman]

Also it wasn't just Axl or his camp that tried to block the release of the greatest hits album, but also Duff and Slash.    In retrospect I wonder though what all three of there opinions of its release would be today.   After the massive success of it and the ton of cash everyone made off of it

One of their beefs, I believe, was the tracklist.  Its hard to argue with them.

I happen to really like 'Ain't It Fun'.  I even like 'Sympathy'.  But are they essential GNR tracks that go on a "best of" collection?

Yes I remember there lack of say in the track list was a major gripe of theres.  I could see it as, they wanted there "essential" gnr songs on it.   I see the gripe as more of, why should we have all these covers on another album and have our royalties going to those artists, when we can just fill the album with all of our own original music and we just get paid... 

The only time I want to hear covers is during a live show and even then mix it up a bit.  The only time artists should be recording covers and releasing them under a album, is when they are a new artist/band and are trying to get there name out there/there music out there.   Hey so you liked our version of that song, why don't you check out the rest of our stuff and mb some of that will click with you

[D-GenerationX]

Seems crazy to me to not have 'Estranged' on there.

It wasn't a huge hit, but was a single.  And one of their most popular songs with the fans.

[TheBaconman]

Seems crazy to me to not have 'Estranged' on there.

It wasn't a huge hit, but was a single.  And one of their most popular songs with the fans.

I think it could of been a bigger hit, if released at a different time...

I remember when the video came out, it seemed like years after the album came out.   Damn did those two albums have some staying legs...  But by the time it came out, I think the fan base was already taking a break...  It was an exhausting run for not just the band, but for the fans.

The label was going to release a greatest hits version 2.0, if Axl didn't turn in CD..   I am sure the track listing would of had Estranged, etc....   BUT.  I did read where Slash had seen two track listing for this release and wasn't impressed with either..   So who knows what would of been on there.   Would they included some of the same songs again on both greatest hits albums?  And then really at the time the band had really only released 4 albums of original material.  How many greatest hits albums can you really generate out of this?  Some fans would say that all 4 albums in themselves, are greatest hits...

[D-GenerationX]

I remember when the video came out, it seemed like years after the album came out.   Damn did those two albums have some staying legs...  But by the time it came out, I think the fan base was already taking a break...  It was an exhausting run for not just the band, but for the fans.

True.

Those albums came out the week after I started high school.  The video for 'Estranged' came out halfway through my junior year.

I love the song, always have, but it did seem a bit out of place in the music scene by then.

[TheBaconman]

I remember when the video came out, it seemed like years after the album came out.   Damn did those two albums have some staying legs...  But by the time it came out, I think the fan base was already taking a break...  It was an exhausting run for not just the band, but for the fans.

True.

Those albums came out the week after I started high school.  The video for 'Estranged' came out halfway through my junior year.

I love the song, always have, but it did seem a bit out of place in the music scene by then.

The song is great, the video is great.  Poor release time and its not a radio friendly song.  Way to long.  It just shows you how great a song like November Rain is.  Another totally long song, but got the shit played out of it on the radio at the time and is still on steady rotation today.  I wonder if they would of released Estranged sooner, or even saved it for a future album release, if it would of been a bigger hit...

[jarmo]

The original "that's not how business works" was about how labels don't fuck with artists out of spite.

Here it is :

Very true.

Which is why I never bought the theory that the label is fucking with him.

They've already paid for this stuff.  They are keeping it under wraps, why?  Spite?  That's not how business works.

 

You didn't answer the question!
So now you're having a discussion with yourself? Alone? That's not how a discussion works.


You mention them paying for it, and then introduce the spite aspect to try to ridicule the whole notion that somebody would do something that goes against your business ideas.
The record company paying for it isn't even a factor since in most cases, they pay for the recording. We all know this.

So what we got must be yet another case of you not believing something, because that would mean there's a possible reason why something didn't go as you had wished, in the world of GN'R. That can't be right, nothing can have reasons. In your world, where this isn't GN'R, the only reason is Axl. For everything. So you need to ridicule everything anybody dares to put in front of you as a possible scenario. It's easier than to have to think.

Like I said, there's nothing original about you. From the wrestling themed username to the behavior. Seen it before.

And yes, sometimes people make decisions based on that simple thing. Spite. Human nature. Maybe it never happens in Philadelphia? Maybe, maybe not? Right?



/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

The song is great, the video is great.  Poor release time and its not a radio friendly song.  Way to long.  It just shows you how great a song like November Rain is.  Another totally long song, but got the shit played out of it on the radio at the time and is still on steady rotation today.  I wonder if they would of released Estranged sooner, or even saved it for a future album release, if it would of been a bigger hit...

I'm not sure its ever a hit, to be honest.  No real chorus or hook.  And really not, even a commercial song structure.

'November Rain' is crazy long, but does have that sort of structure and chorus.

What's interesting is that song compared with some of the CD tracks.  Which also lack choruses or real commercial song structure.  Maybe he needs others for that.  Then again, he wrote 'November Rain' by himself, so who knows?

[jarmo]

If you seriously wanna talk about Greatest Hits, I'm sure there's a thread about it somewhere...




/jarmo