"Next Album" rumor / speculation thread *UPDATE AUG 22/2023*

[D-GenerationX]

But I will say this as an argument why it was good they never did release the album in 2006.  Axl/the band couldn't even finish a tour in 2006.  They only banged out a few shows actually, with one riot.  Even though by the time they got to New York, the band was on fire...   Great, sound, very tight playing...   But that was it...  To me, Axls head just wasn't in it.  And if people use the excuse "the album will come out when Axl is ready", well tours happened/stop when ultimately Axl says so.   Sure there is always more to it...   But ultimately it all comes down to him.

Yep.

They had to cut that tour short in December 2006 to finish up the album....

...that came out in November 2008.

And you make a fair point with these abrupt cancellation for dubious reasons.  Not hard to see why he's not exactly a promoter's wet dream.

[GypsySoul]

I think these 2 year contracts that Axl had with, Robin and Bucket expiring is what killed that version of the band.  Robin seemed to bail at the end of each one, then finally not coming back.  Bucket left after the first.   MB if they would of had longer contracts they would still be around.   Silly I know, would be like forcing them to stay, but it would of worked

Could be.  Though perhaps you could make the argument these guys wouldn't be always looking to bail if they didn't spend so much time doing nothing.

Can you make the argument that Axl would have been better served getting the album out in 2006?  He was in phenomenal shape, both physically and vocally.  His band was pretty tight.  Would you rather have a top shelf Axl with Robin-Richard-Ron-Tommy-Dizzy-Brain...or a lesser Axl both physically and vocally, and band of DJ-Richard-Ron-Tommy-Dizzy-Frank?   

You can't turn back time, and this is all obviously conjecture.  But is even wondering that aloud some horrible crime?  Well, depends who you ask.

Well you have made the argument pretty well that they would of been better off releasing the album in 2006, so you don't need me making one.

But I will say this as an argument why it was good they never did release the album in 2006.  Axl/the band couldn't even finish a tour in 2006.  They only banged out a few shows actually, with one riot.  Even though by the time they got to New York, the band was on fire...   Great, sound, very tight playing...   But that was it...  To me, Axls head just wasn't in it.  And if people use the excuse "the album will come out when Axl is ready", well tours happened/stop when ultimately Axl says so.   Sure there is always more to it...   But ultimately it all comes down to him

With the above just said.  How could they possibly release anything when he cant even do a proper tour?  We complain about the lack of promotion from the label and axl when the release actually came out, but how would of it been in 2006?   Even worse I think!  Not the recipe for success

Personally....   I would of loved to see the album come out back in 2001, once Buckethead added his parts and wrote some new songs..  It was done!!   Then, the label sent in some goofy producers the re-recorded everything....  Just stupid..   

You ask why the artists and musicians left over the years.  If I was a artist and I had what I thought was a finished product and other people thought it wasn't good enough, I would be pretty pissed as well.  A good argument could be made that the labels involvement in the recording and producing process of the album was a big cause for the exodus of members leaving

But I will say this as an argument why it was good they never did release the album in 2006.  Axl/the band couldn't even finish a tour in 2006.  They only banged out a few shows actually, with one riot.  Even though by the time they got to New York, the band was on fire...   Great, sound, very tight playing...   But that was it...  To me, Axls head just wasn't in it.  And if people use the excuse "the album will come out when Axl is ready", well tours happened/stop when ultimately Axl says so.   Sure there is always more to it...   But ultimately it all comes down to him.

Yep.

They had to cut that tour short in December 2006 to finish up the album....

...that came out in November 2008.

And you make a fair point with these abrupt cancellation for dubious reasons.  Not hard to see why he's not exactly a promoter's wet dream.

CONGRATULATIONS D-GenerationX AND TheBaconman!!!
The two of you have now OFFICIALLY turned the "New Album Speculation" thread into a 100% DEAD HORSE conversations!!!
 

[jarmo]

I question the logic of some of his moves.  Never once claiming I was an expert and had all the answers, because that's just strawman bullshit.

You question the logic, but when offered reasons you dismiss them with lines such as "that's not how things work" or something similar.
If you don't think you're an expert, why would you make claims like that about things you know very little about?

For spite

At least you ignored the question and issue at hand. As usual.

I'd also consider waiting over 4 full years after the label cut off funding to release the album a poor move.  He lost momentum and his band along the way.  Not an awesome outcome, in my view.

Obviosuly can't guarantee things would have gone swimmingly, but I did see how they went releasing it in 2008.  Is that considered a best case scenario?  Not to me.

With that kind of mentality, nothing rarely is "best case scenario". You can always find faults with anything.

By the way, it was the best case scenario for many things. Including making you still talk about it over six years later.  

They had to cut that tour short in December 2006 to finish up the album....

...that came out in November 2008.

The album was finished in 2007.

But I will say this as an argument why it was good they never did release the album in 2006.  Axl/the band couldn't even finish a tour in 2006.  They only banged out a few shows actually, with one riot. 

What riot?

They did shows in New York in May 2006 before touring all over Europe for two months. Then did shows in the US in September before starting a tour of North America that ran from October to December. Five shows that were scheduled for January 2007 were canceled. There were no riots.



As pointed out above, good job. We all assumed you were so into talking about current events, yet here you are not contempt with bringing up 2008 events, you start bringing up 2006 into the mix too. And for some reason, only negativity.

The Next album rumor / speculation thread has turned into a "Look at me, I need to keep whining about the past in every thread" thread.




/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

CONGRATULATIONS D-GenerationX AND TheBaconman!!!
The two of you have now OFFICIALLY turned the "New Album Speculation" thread into a 100% DEAD HORSE conversations!!!
 

Gots to pass the time somehow.

Don't get me wrong.  Looking at a dead forum with no traffic is fun.  But sometimes, you have to mix it up.  I think, anyway.

[D-GenerationX]

At least you ignored the question and issue at hand. As usual.

I consider the source.  Like you were going to accept anything I said anyway.

With that kind of mentality, nothing rarely is "best case scenario". You can always find faults with anything.

Perhaps.

But the flipside of that is the seal that claps whenever they get around to throwing him a fish.  Despite his happiness in the moment, is it any sort of commentary on the efficiency of the feeding process, pro or con?  Not really.

As pointed out above, good job. We all assumed you were so into talking about current events, yet here you are not contempt with bringing up 2008 events, you start bringing up 2006 into the mix too. And for some reason, only negativity.

The Next album rumor / speculation thread has turned into a "Look at me, I need to keep whining about the past in every thread" thread.

Whenever something new is introduced, we talk about that until it runs its course.

What happens then?  We just stare at each other?

This might also be the flaw in only having 2, maybe 3 threads going at one time.  Meandering is inevitable.

[TheBaconman]

I question the logic of some of his moves.  Never once claiming I was an expert and had all the answers, because that's just strawman bullshit.

You question the logic, but when offered reasons you dismiss them with lines such as "that's not how things work" or something similar.
If you don't think you're an expert, why would you make claims like that about things you know very little about?

For spite

At least you ignored the question and issue at hand. As usual.

I'd also consider waiting over 4 full years after the label cut off funding to release the album a poor move.  He lost momentum and his band along the way.  Not an awesome outcome, in my view.

Obviosuly can't guarantee things would have gone swimmingly, but I did see how they went releasing it in 2008.  Is that considered a best case scenario?  Not to me.

With that kind of mentality, nothing rarely is "best case scenario". You can always find faults with anything.

By the way, it was the best case scenario for many things. Including making you still talk about it over six years later.  

They had to cut that tour short in December 2006 to finish up the album....

...that came out in November 2008.

The album was finished in 2007.

But I will say this as an argument why it was good they never did release the album in 2006.  Axl/the band couldn't even finish a tour in 2006.  They only banged out a few shows actually, with one riot. 

What riot?

They did shows in New York in May 2006 before touring all over Europe for two months. Then did shows in the US in September before starting a tour of North America that ran from October to December. Five shows that were scheduled for January 2007 were canceled. There were no riots.



As pointed out above, good job. We all assumed you were so into talking about current events, yet here you are not contempt with bringing up 2008 events, you start bringing up 2006 into the mix too. And for some reason, only negativity.

The Next album rumor / speculation thread has turned into a "Look at me, I need to keep whining about the past in every thread" thread.




/jarmo

There was a riot in Vancouver when that concert was cancelled.  It was the fist show of that tour I believe.  I am not laying blame for the cancelation on the riot on the band or Axl, just stating a fact that there was a riot.  Trust me, people from Vancouver are crazy.  They will riot over anything!!  The city has a long history of this..  And poor hockey teams!!  haha


I don't think it is negative to talk about the past..  Even in a album speculation thread..  If you are speculating about the next album and are using examples of past events, whats the problem..  

CD was finished in 2007, so whats the harm of talking about a few years before that, about people that wrote the music on the album?  

[TheBaconman]

I think these 2 year contracts that Axl had with, Robin and Bucket expiring is what killed that version of the band.  Robin seemed to bail at the end of each one, then finally not coming back.  Bucket left after the first.   MB if they would of had longer contracts they would still be around.   Silly I know, would be like forcing them to stay, but it would of worked

Could be.  Though perhaps you could make the argument these guys wouldn't be always looking to bail if they didn't spend so much time doing nothing.

Can you make the argument that Axl would have been better served getting the album out in 2006?  He was in phenomenal shape, both physically and vocally.  His band was pretty tight.  Would you rather have a top shelf Axl with Robin-Richard-Ron-Tommy-Dizzy-Brain...or a lesser Axl both physically and vocally, and band of DJ-Richard-Ron-Tommy-Dizzy-Frank?   

You can't turn back time, and this is all obviously conjecture.  But is even wondering that aloud some horrible crime?  Well, depends who you ask.

Well you have made the argument pretty well that they would of been better off releasing the album in 2006, so you don't need me making one.

But I will say this as an argument why it was good they never did release the album in 2006.  Axl/the band couldn't even finish a tour in 2006.  They only banged out a few shows actually, with one riot.  Even though by the time they got to New York, the band was on fire...   Great, sound, very tight playing...   But that was it...  To me, Axls head just wasn't in it.  And if people use the excuse "the album will come out when Axl is ready", well tours happened/stop when ultimately Axl says so.   Sure there is always more to it...   But ultimately it all comes down to him

With the above just said.  How could they possibly release anything when he cant even do a proper tour?  We complain about the lack of promotion from the label and axl when the release actually came out, but how would of it been in 2006?   Even worse I think!  Not the recipe for success

Personally....   I would of loved to see the album come out back in 2001, once Buckethead added his parts and wrote some new songs..  It was done!!   Then, the label sent in some goofy producers the re-recorded everything....  Just stupid..   

You ask why the artists and musicians left over the years.  If I was a artist and I had what I thought was a finished product and other people thought it wasn't good enough, I would be pretty pissed as well.  A good argument could be made that the labels involvement in the recording and producing process of the album was a big cause for the exodus of members leaving

But I will say this as an argument why it was good they never did release the album in 2006.  Axl/the band couldn't even finish a tour in 2006.  They only banged out a few shows actually, with one riot.  Even though by the time they got to New York, the band was on fire...   Great, sound, very tight playing...   But that was it...  To me, Axls head just wasn't in it.  And if people use the excuse "the album will come out when Axl is ready", well tours happened/stop when ultimately Axl says so.   Sure there is always more to it...   But ultimately it all comes down to him.

Yep.

They had to cut that tour short in December 2006 to finish up the album....

...that came out in November 2008.

And you make a fair point with these abrupt cancellation for dubious reasons.  Not hard to see why he's not exactly a promoter's wet dream.

CONGRATULATIONS D-GenerationX AND TheBaconman!!!
The two of you have now OFFICIALLY turned the "New Album Speculation" thread into a 100% DEAD HORSE conversations!!!
 

That's not my intent at all..  I really am trying to have a positive discussion regarding speculation on the new Album.  Some times those discussions take side roads and back trails, but the end result is to talk about the new album

You seem ready to pounce on both of us, at a moments notice.  And I am flattered, but I find it unnecessary

[D-GenerationX]

There was a riot in Vancouver when that concert was cancelled.  It was the fist show of that tour I believe.  I am not laying blame for the cancelation on the riot on the band or Axl, just stating a fact that there was a riot.  Trust me, people from Vancouver are crazy.  They will riot over anything!!  The city has a long history of this..  And poor hockey teams!!  haha

That was the 2002 tour.  

2006 had no riots.  Nor cancellations, until the very end.

I don't think it is negative to talk about the past..  Even in a album speculation thread..  If you are speculating about the next album and are using examples of past events, whats the problem..  

CD was finished in 2007, so whats the harm of talking about a few years before that, about people that wrote the music on the album?  

Jarmo is something of a self fulfilling prophecy on that front.

He takes you to task over the posts of yours he doesn't like, but they are also the only ones he quotes.  There are all sorts of on topic posts in all these threads that he glosses over.  But the second his spidey sense goes off that you said something bad, that shit is quoted right quick.  

Then, and this is the beauty...if you answer him, you are "beating a dead horse".  But if you ignore him, you are "avoiding the question".  Which, you guessed it, then becomes you "beating a dead horse."

What can I say?  Its good to be king.

[jarmo]

I consider the source.  Like you were going to accept anything I said anyway.

I tried to help you. You make bold claims and rarely, if ever, live up to those words. Don't pretend to be an expert, first to admit you're wrong etc. etc. Beautiful words. Too bad in your case, they're just that.

There was a riot in Vancouver when that concert was cancelled.

2002, not 2006. Different time, different tour.






/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

That's not my intent at all..  I really am trying to have a positive discussion regarding speculation on the new Album.  Some times those discussions take side roads and back trails, but the end result is to talk about the new album

You seem ready to pounce on both of us, at a moments notice.  And I am flattered, but I find it unnecessary

Oh, you get used to it.  All part of the daily routine.

[D-GenerationX]

I tried to help you. You make bold claims and rarely, if ever, live up to those words. Don't pretend to be an expert, first to admit you're wrong etc. etc. Beautiful words. Too bad in your case, they're just that.

You consistently twist and misinterpret what I say and mix and match several of my arguments, then try and force me to address your false premise. 

Which, in my defense (or to my detriment), I often indulge.  But it can reach a point of absurdity at times, and that's when the joke answers come.

We'd have a lot less standoffish relationship if you didn't try to play this hardass role all the damn time.  But, hey, its your show.

[TheBaconman]

There was a riot in Vancouver when that concert was cancelled.  It was the fist show of that tour I believe.  I am not laying blame for the cancelation on the riot on the band or Axl, just stating a fact that there was a riot.  Trust me, people from Vancouver are crazy.  They will riot over anything!!  The city has a long history of this..  And poor hockey teams!!  haha

That was the 2002 tour.  

2006 had no riots.  Nor cancellations, until the very end.

I don't think it is negative to talk about the past..  Even in a album speculation thread..  If you are speculating about the next album and are using examples of past events, whats the problem..  

CD was finished in 2007, so whats the harm of talking about a few years before that, about people that wrote the music on the album?  

Jarmo is something of a self fulfilling prophecy on that front.

He takes you to task over the posts of yours he doesn't like, but they are also the only ones he quotes.  There are all sorts of on topic posts in all these threads that he glosses over.  But the second his spidey sense goes off that you said something bad, that shit is quoted right quick.  

Then, and this is the beauty...if you answer him, you are "beating a dead horse".  But if you ignore him, you are "avoiding the question".  Which, you guessed it, then becomes you "beating a dead horse."

What can I say?  Its good to be king.

My Guns dates of things is pretty weak!  Sorry for confusing the years on that riot... And ya was Jarmo was saying about the tour not getting cancelled with more concerts makes perfect sense though, for 2006..

But really, that strengthens my point that the album should of been release way back in 2001-2.  But I don't want to start that debate

[TheBaconman]

I consider the source.  Like you were going to accept anything I said anyway.

I tried to help you. You make bold claims and rarely, if ever, live up to those words. Don't pretend to be an expert, first to admit you're wrong etc. etc. Beautiful words. Too bad in your case, they're just that.

There was a riot in Vancouver when that concert was cancelled.

2002, not 2006. Different time, different tour.






/jarmo

Thanks for clearing that up...  Not to sound so silly next time, when I actually post dates for things, I will make sure they are right.. 

[D-GenerationX]

But really, that strengthens my point that the album should of been release way back in 2001-2.  But I don't want to start that debate

I don't know.

People wax poetic about the "1999 version" of the album.  But to me, they just sound like unfinished songs, not quite fleshed out yet.

[mortismurphy]

Neil Young had a few albums shelved in the mid 70's...

Homegrown? This was shelved by Neil. It was not the record company.

[jarmo]

You consistently twist and misinterpret what I say and mix and match several of my arguments, then try and force me to address your false premise. 

That's what you always say. And I keep showing you the quotes, and you keep ignoring what you said. We're used to it. You're never wrong because you ignore posts or questions you don't want to answer and so on. We know it. Every time something comes up to proves you were wrong about something, you make a so called joke or ignore it. Like it never happened. Common tactic of smart asses who think they can never be wrong. Nothing new.

But in this case, you claim you're no expert. I pointed out that it's not how you come across with your posts. And tried to offer a suggestion on how to avoid that kind of situations in the future. And what happens? You paint yourself as the poor victim once again.

So in short: If you want to make claims such as "I'm not an expert" and want to convince us, please refrain from comments such as "that's not how it works" relating to subjects you know nothing or very little about. Thank you.

But really, that strengthens my point that the album should of been release way back in 2001-2.  But I don't want to start that debate

In a perfect world where everything goes amazingly, maybe that could've been possible. Unfortunately we live in the real world where things don't always go as planned/hoped, and that discussion is a completely different topic altogether. So thanks.  



/jarmo

[TheBaconman]

But really, that strengthens my point that the album should of been release way back in 2001-2.  But I don't want to start that debate

I don't know.

People wax poetic about the "1999 version" of the album.  But to me, they just sound like unfinished songs, not quite fleshed out yet.

So I don't know if I heard any of the 1999 versions...  However, I know Bucket didn't join the band until late 1999, so what was on that 1999 version, really didn't include him, I am guessing.
I say this as I feel, his songs had the strongest influence on the album, to me.  So what was reported finished around 2001, I would of loved to seen released then.

[D-GenerationX]

That's what you always say. And I keep showing you the quotes, and you keep ignoring what you said. We're used to it. You're never wrong because you ignore posts or questions you don't want to answer and so on. We know it. Every time something comes up to proves you were wrong about something, you make a so called joke or ignore it. Like it never happened. Common tactic of smart asses who think they can never be wrong. Nothing new.

But in this case, you claim you're no expert. I pointed out that it's not how you come across with your posts. And tried to offer a suggestion on how to avoid that kind of situations in the future. And what happens? You paint yourself as the poor victim once again.

So in short: If you want to make claims such as "I'm not an expert" and want to convince us, please refrain from comments such as "that's not how it works" relating to subjects you know nothing or very little about. Thank you.

The More You Know.....

[jarmo]

Today, you were proven to be wrong about how record companies actually refuse to release albums occasionally.
Good day, you learned something new. Maybe you'll remember it tomorrow. Or not since you're never wrong... 




/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

So I don't know if I heard any of the 1999 versions...  However, I know Bucket didn't join the band until late 1999, so what was on that 1999 version, really didn't include him, I am guessing.
I say this as I feel, his songs had the strongest influence on the album, to me.  So what was reported finished around 2001, I would of loved to seen released then.

I don't even know if I still have them, but I had versions of 'I.R.S.' and 'There Was A Time' that were pretty rough sounding demos.

But I have seen people swear that is what should have been released.  I'm often quick to chide Axl for all the wasted time, but those suckers clearly weren't ready.