"Next Album" rumor / speculation thread *UPDATE AUG 22/2023*

[Ginger King]

The situation in every band is different.

And yet in only one case does it impact the ability to release music.

If you believe that, I've got a bridge to sell you.

People like yourself who believe that still didn't manage to explain to me why the 1999 solo album by Duff McKagan wasn't released. I mean, many other artists released albums that year and the record companies are such nice people who'd never do anything bad.... Yes, different artist, different case. Still the album was done, and it never came out. I know, makes no sense and I don't expect you to believe me since you seem to think record companies are such great friends of us music fans. But it happened! This must be the only case in history where a record company did something even remotely bad right? It just does not happen according to some GN'R fans.




/jarmo

Duff McKagen is many things...but he's no Axl Rose.  The label dropped him (probably) because they knew no one would buy a Duff album sans Axl.  It's clear the label chose Axl...they believed he would be the only one that would be able to deliver a profitable album without the others. 

Perhaps this time around, the record company is jaded by what happened in the past, and they know what to expect with an Axl-led album (in terms of copies sold, general relevance, etc.).  Perhaps they're afraid that Axl will go into hibernation like after CD was released.  So the label could be thinking (a) the album's not going to sell well, and (b) we're dealing with a man that hates us and who knows what his commitment will be to promoting the album.  So yeah, I can see how the label could be interfering...I just don't think it's completely unjustifiable.

[mortismurphy]

That Interscope somehow, upset, Axl's album(s) is absolute garbage. It is a will o the wisp pursued by ardent admirers, desperate to defend Axl's lack of creative output. The truth is Interscope bent over backwards to provide a level of cash injection, completely unprecedented in music history. They paid for a plethora of topflight producers, Bob Ezrin, Roy Thomas Baker. They allowed a running tab at the Complex. They were willing to pay for a sum, in excess of $15 million, for a 'GN'R' album which did not contain Slash (sorry to bring this up, but that was and still is a sticking point for many). Few artists have ever been so financially and emotionally more supported than Axl Rose.

[TheBaconman]

I do not agree. I believe it undersold. And I do not even want to see Axl anywhere near a stage to be quite honest. What is Axl doing playing Vegas, with an album that is six years old? He should not be anywhere near a stage. He should be doing what he feels he has to do to get CD2 to a shop rack.

How many units do you think it should of sold?

Touring was a big reason behind the release of CD, back in 2006.  Well at least funding it...   I really dont have a problem with him touring at all, as I dont think it influences the release of new music one bit.  In fact if he tours and plays new music to a possitive reaction it only helps in the pressure of a new album release.  If the music is done, its done.   And I think it is.   Touring shouldnt affect it, in the negative.   Just release it!

[TheBaconman]

The situation in every band is different.

And yet in only one case does it impact the ability to release music.

I don't exactly get what the point you are trying to make is?   For what ever reason Axl hasn't released any new music.   Sure lots of other bands have released albums recently and many artists do so regualary   So what.  
I don't know why you keep bringing up Neil young.    He is a freak when it comes to releasing music   But when was the last time Neil Young produced a album with production costs topping 13+ million?   With a big portion of that production cost comming out of his pocket?    If I was an artist that had that type of production bill.   I would want to get the maximum amount of return on my investment

The above is just what I think and why I give Axl the benifit of the doubt when it comes to releasing new music.   I think he is sitting on a ton of finished material thiugh and for what ever reason is not releasing it

However the above argument regarding the non release of new music in no way what so ever is an excuse not to play sId new material live.   If on the next guns tour if they are not playing new material live I will be extremely pissed.  I feel there is no excuses for not playing newaterial with the next tour.  

I think you have me confused with someone else...I've never mentioned Neil Young.  Anyway, that point I'm trying to make is that, when it comes to Guns, there are a myriad of reasons (or excuses) why the new material (that we know is done) is not released.  Most people here are convinced that the record company is the main villain, constantly stopping Axl from getting that album out.  Now, I don't think the record company is this benevolent, ready to help at all times entity...clearly they're out to make a buck and if something's not going to make them money, then they're not going to support it.

And even if there are people at the record company that have it out for Axl...do they still exist in 2014? I mean yeah, he pissed a lot of people off in the 90's, but is there still a "How do we thwart Axl Rose" Dept.?  And, if the record company was unfairly and unreasonably treating him, don't you think he'd sue to get out of his contract?  He's not exactly litigation adverse.

I just find it odd that the rush here is to blame everything and everyone else...from the record company, current trend in album sales, decline in importance of rock, as the reason why this music (again, which we know is done) it not getting released.  Isn't it just as plausible that he's not ready/willing to release it yet (for whatever reason)?  Or maybe it's a combination of that plus lack of label support.  Why does it have to be one or the other?  

I havnt read recemtly anyonme blmaing the record label.  Or blaming anyone.  I have read a lot of blind faith posts about Axl and it will come out when he wants it.  But I havnt read any excuses, well intelligent ones

[TheBaconman]

The situation in every band is different.

And yet in only one case does it impact the ability to release music.

If you believe that, I've got a bridge to sell you.

People like yourself who believe that still didn't manage to explain to me why the 1999 solo album by Duff McKagan wasn't released. I mean, many other artists released albums that year and the record companies are such nice people who'd never do anything bad.... Yes, different artist, different case. Still the album was done, and it never came out. I know, makes no sense and I don't expect you to believe me since you seem to think record companies are such great friends of us music fans. But it happened! This must be the only case in history where a record company did something even remotely bad right? It just does not happen according to some GN'R fans.




/jarmo

Duff McKagen is many things...but he's no Axl Rose.  The label dropped him (probably) because they knew no one would buy a Duff album sans Axl.  It's clear the label chose Axl...they believed he would be the only one that would be able to deliver a profitable album without the others. 

Perhaps this time around, the record company is jaded by what happened in the past, and they know what to expect with an Axl-led album (in terms of copies sold, general relevance, etc.).  Perhaps they're afraid that Axl will go into hibernation like after CD was released.  So the label could be thinking (a) the album's not going to sell well, and (b) we're dealing with a man that hates us and who knows what his commitment will be to promoting the album.  So yeah, I can see how the label could be interfering...I just don't think it's completely unjustifiable.

If the label is due a album release why dont they pressure him with the release of another greatest hits release??  Another greatest hits release is gauranted money for the label...  Why dont they?  Because I dont think they are owed a album,

[TheBaconman]

That Interscope somehow, upset, Axl's album(s) is absolute garbage. It is a will o the wisp pursued by ardent admirers, desperate to defend Axl's lack of creative output. The truth is Interscope bent over backwards to provide a level of cash injection, completely unprecedented in music history. They paid for a plethora of topflight producers, Bob Ezrin, Roy Thomas Baker. They allowed a running tab at the Complex. They were willing to pay for a sum, in excess of $15 million, for a 'GN'R' album which did not contain Slash (sorry to bring this up, but that was and still is a sticking point for many). Few artists have ever been so financially and emotionally more supported than Axl Rose.

Axl/GNR have put a ton of there own money into the recording process of CD.  The label recouped all production costs regarding this album as well and then sum..  All world wide sales, were profit.    The label merged, broke up and merged and formed new labels and whatever...  many times durring this process. 

Where is this lack of creative output you speak of?  The album was released in 08 with a reported 2 more albums recorded.   As Axl as the sole song writter....   Thats pretty damn creative.   It has nothing to do with being creative, that it new music hasnt been released.   What kinda creative stuff do you say will help release more music" 

[Gavgnr]

Some great discussion going in this thread.

For me, my opinion is that the label has always/will always harbour a desire for Axl and slash to get back together and make music. The question that plagues my mind is whether this has adversely affected Guns release over the years?

I believe it has - again, just my opinion.

Could it be argued that the eventual release of Chinese was in no small part due to Azoff and the label's cognisance of a potential reunion with him on board? Again, an interesting question worthy of thought.

It's impossible for us to know how many albums Guns still owes the label - but a question remains - are the label holding out their contract for a potential reunion? If, say, there's 1 or 2 albums owing, any release by the band as it exists in its present form would limit their ability to release material for the reformed Guns, should it ever happen.

I want to stress the point that in no way am I an advocate of a reunion - I love this band in its current form and am hopeful for the rest of the Chinese sessions.

[TheBaconman]

Some great discussion going in this thread.

For me, my opinion is that the label has always/will always harbour a desire for Axl and slash to get back together and make music. The question that plagues my mind is whether this has adversely affected Guns release over the years?

I believe it has - again, just my opinion.

Could it be argued that the eventual release of Chinese was in no small part due to Azoff and the label's cognisance of a potential reunion with him on board? Again, an interesting question worthy of thought.

It's impossible for us to know how many albums Guns still owes the label - but a question remains - are the label holding out their contract for a potential reunion? If, say, there's 1 or 2 albums owing, any release by the band as it exists in its present form would limit their ability to release material for the reformed Guns, should it ever happen.

I want to stress the point that in no way am I an advocate of a reunion - I love this band in its current form and am hopeful for the rest of the Chinese sessions.

I agree the the discussion has really picked up in this thread again recently.
The label has never once talked about a reunion.  And Axl in all the years has never once said the label had/was/is pressuring him with a reunion.  What  do you base your opionion on?
Why is it impossible to know how many Albums are left on guns current deal with the label??  This info is available for many other bands out there.  To call it impossible to find out is a bit of a stretch.  I do though find it, unlickly that we will ever get specifics on the deal

[norway]

Ideally, next album should be promoted asap and a song should be on a big videogame of 2015.

Offtopic: Axl, I will never forgive the yellow raincoat on rio.

[Ginger King]

The situation in every band is different.

And yet in only one case does it impact the ability to release music.

I don't exactly get what the point you are trying to make is?   For what ever reason Axl hasn't released any new music.   Sure lots of other bands have released albums recently and many artists do so regualary   So what.  
I don't know why you keep bringing up Neil young.    He is a freak when it comes to releasing music   But when was the last time Neil Young produced a album with production costs topping 13+ million?   With a big portion of that production cost comming out of his pocket?    If I was an artist that had that type of production bill.   I would want to get the maximum amount of return on my investment

The above is just what I think and why I give Axl the benifit of the doubt when it comes to releasing new music.   I think he is sitting on a ton of finished material thiugh and for what ever reason is not releasing it

However the above argument regarding the non release of new music in no way what so ever is an excuse not to play sId new material live.   If on the next guns tour if they are not playing new material live I will be extremely pissed.  I feel there is no excuses for not playing newaterial with the next tour.  

I think you have me confused with someone else...I've never mentioned Neil Young.  Anyway, that point I'm trying to make is that, when it comes to Guns, there are a myriad of reasons (or excuses) why the new material (that we know is done) is not released.  Most people here are convinced that the record company is the main villain, constantly stopping Axl from getting that album out.  Now, I don't think the record company is this benevolent, ready to help at all times entity...clearly they're out to make a buck and if something's not going to make them money, then they're not going to support it.

And even if there are people at the record company that have it out for Axl...do they still exist in 2014? I mean yeah, he pissed a lot of people off in the 90's, but is there still a "How do we thwart Axl Rose" Dept.?  And, if the record company was unfairly and unreasonably treating him, don't you think he'd sue to get out of his contract?  He's not exactly litigation adverse.

I just find it odd that the rush here is to blame everything and everyone else...from the record company, current trend in album sales, decline in importance of rock, as the reason why this music (again, which we know is done) it not getting released.  Isn't it just as plausible that he's not ready/willing to release it yet (for whatever reason)?  Or maybe it's a combination of that plus lack of label support.  Why does it have to be one or the other?  

,

I havnt read recemtly anyonme blmaing the record label.  Or blaming anyone.  I have read a lot of blind faith posts about Axl and it will come out when he wants it.  But I havnt read any excuses, well intelligent ones

Oh it's here...probably in this thread somewhere.  There's also a lot of "Axl is an artist and I'll support him no matter what he does, when he does it" on here.  At some point, you have to get over yourself, whatever issues (real or perceived) there are with the record label, and work together.  It's called compromise.  Or, just admit that you're not really that interested in new music, the time isn't right, etc.  Instead, we're led down this path that, by all accounts, another album or two is done, but that there exist this unknowable force that is prohibiting its release. 

[jarmo]

Terrible analogy - looking for needles in a haystack to try and justify Axl's lack of creative drive.

There's no fucking analogy. When will you and your kind get it? Trying to paint a picture for you with big brush strokes since you can't seem to see that there's a picture to be seen.
Duff had an album ready, yet we couldn't go buy it. Is it because of him? No.

Yes, artists release records. Yes, artists and record companies don't always agree and have disputes.

For some reason, some of you only agree with the first sentence. Maybe you work for the record companies or have some kind of inside info that invalidates any complaint any artist has ever had with their record company?

The only thing people here are saying that there's more to the picture than you want to see. The only thing you're interested in is "It's Axl's fault". For so called open mined people, you sure don't act like it.



/jarmo

[mortismurphy]

Terrible analogy - looking for needles in a haystack to try and justify Axl's lack of creative drive.

There's no fucking analogy. When will you and your kind get it? Trying to paint a picture for you with big brush strokes since you can't seem to see that there's a picture to be seen.
Duff had an album ready, yet we couldn't go buy it. Is it because of him? No.

Yes, artists release records. Yes, artists and record companies don't always agree and have disputes.

For some reason, some of you only agree with the first sentence. Maybe you work for the record companies or have some kind of inside info that invalidates any complaint any artist has ever had with their record company?

The only thing people here are saying that there's more to the picture than you want to see. The only thing you're interested in is "It's Axl's fault". For so called open mined people, you sure don't act like it.



/jarmo

We can only speculate based on the evidence we have. To blame the record company would require some degree of evidence, to that fact whereas, all we have is evidence to the contrary: the company injecting over $15 million into the project (NB this would include CD2 as much as CD); the record company allowed Axl an unlimited tab at the recording studio. We do however have an unbroken record of delays and procrastination from Axl Rose, stretching back to the mid-1990s and the sessions when Slash was still in the band. In light of those two facts, it can only by Axl Rose's fault - unless some evidence turns up that increases our awareness of the situation.

Duff was dropped from his record label. He did not receive millions of dollars of financial support. It is a completely reverse example from Axl's, as, when a record company drops you it signifies that they do not want to financially support you in the slightest. It is a terrible analogy.

[Gavgnr]

Hope I haven't offended anyone with my comments in this thread.

I did post a lot of this after a few beers when, according to my wife(!), I talk a load of shit!!

I'm no insider and don't know shit about the music business.

All I know is I fuckin love this band, always have, always will.

[mortismurphy]

Some great discussion going in this thread.

For me, my opinion is that the label has always/will always harbour a desire for Axl and slash to get back together and make music. The question that plagues my mind is whether this has adversely affected Guns release over the years?

I believe it has - again, just my opinion.

Could it be argued that the eventual release of Chinese was in no small part due to Azoff and the label's cognisance of a potential reunion with him on board? Again, an interesting question worthy of thought.

It's impossible for us to know how many albums Guns still owes the label - but a question remains - are the label holding out their contract for a potential reunion? If, say, there's 1 or 2 albums owing, any release by the band as it exists in its present form would limit their ability to release material for the reformed Guns, should it ever happen.

I want to stress the point that in no way am I an advocate of a reunion - I love this band in its current form and am hopeful for the rest of the Chinese sessions.

There is simply no evidence for that. There is evidence to the contrary, millions of dollars of support, endless AaR men being sent out to prod Axl into releasing CD.

[Gavgnr]

^^What about the reports that Guns were told to re-record or alter tracks to fit more in line with the label's view of what was best to release. I remember reading a Tommy Stinson interview detailing this. If they were so keen to get the record out, why do this? They would know that any Guns release would sell like hot cakes.

How about the fact that Axl launched a counter suit against Azoff for allegedly deliberately damaging the release of chinese, an action alleged to have come about because axl wasn't open to considering a return of slash?

[mortismurphy]

^^What about the reports that Guns were told to re-record or alter tracks to fit more in line with the label's view of what was best to release. I remember reading a Tommy Stinson interview detailing this. If they were so keen to get the record out, why do this? They would know that any Guns release would sell like hot cakes.

But this does not signify an attempt to reunite the old band - quite the reverse in fact as it shows the record company had a particular view on a new gn'r record.

How about the fact that Axl launched a counter suit against Azoff for allegedly deliberately damaging the release of chinese, an action alleged to have come about because axl wasn't open to considering a return of slash?

Azoff was management, not record company.

[GNR2014]

How about the fact that Axl launched a counter suit against Azoff for allegedly deliberately damaging the release of chinese, an action alleged to have come about because axl wasn't open to considering a return of slash?

Azoff was management, not record company.

Correct. Azoff held same position Beta.

[jarmo]

We can only speculate based on the evidence we have.

I don't know why you don't have the same evidence the rest of us have.

What are your thoughts on how Universal has handled the album?

Unfortunately I have no information for me to believe [that] there was any real involvement or effort from Interscope. I'm not saying there wasn't. But in my opinion, without [Interscope Geffen A&M chairman] Jimmy Iovine's involvement, it doesn't matter who anyone talks to or what they say -- virtually nothing will happen from their end.

I do know [that] I've been asking for a marketing plan for over five years and still haven't got anything. We've asked for a complete breakdown of promotion expenses and efforts from all parties but unfortunately I've received very little information, if anything, so far. On another note, the draft booklet leaking and, I believe, the early shipping of preorders and the inclusion of the early draft booklet for the release was through involvement with Interscope, which was a mess. That's not to say they don't work for other artists and make things happen. I feel they work very hard for whatever it is they truly want to sell, whether it's good or ...

I can say how the band feels, and that is that to a man they hate the record company other than Universal International with a passion. And that's with me talking with them about the record company negatively hardly ever, if at all. They're not blind: They hear the talk and see the results. Our involvement with Interscope has been more than frustrating for them. It's not like anyone here wants to have any negative views, impressions or opinions. They don't go around bitching about things all the time and they don't let it get in the way of whatever they're supposed to do here, but it is what it is.

Here's how things worked until they were no longer involved-that is, until recently. Jimmy [Iovine] and whoever would come down to the studio. Things would be good for a month. Then, according to whoever was involved at the time from their side, someone above Jimmy would start putting pressure regarding us on him, Jimmy would start pressuring others at his label [and they] would begin doing the same with us. We get that it's just how business -- and perhaps especially this business -- tends to work, but after a month of this the whole thing would get ugly and extensively interfere with getting anything productive done, and near the middle of the third month we'd arrange for Jimmy to come down again. They'd go away happy and the entire process would repeat itself over and over and over.

[Former Interscope Geffen A&M president] Tom Whalley brought in Roy Thomas Baker to produce and [A&R executive] Mark Williams suggested Marco Beltrami, among others, to play strings on the album. And Jimmy had an idea for low guitar in a track and the EQ on a drum part. That's it as far as I'm aware. They were all good things, but in all sincerity, that's it. Now, what efforts were made to help keep Universal or Vivendi off us for as long as possible could very well have been extensive, and in that regard either would have been or would be most appreciated. I like Jimmy, but I've never understood him in regard to us or this album. Everything's always been, "That's easy," or "We can fix that, no problem," but unfortunately rarely added up to any kind of reality for us until [he found] Bob Ludwig for mastering.

We'd love to have their and Jimmy's support after this. But to continue at this juncture feeling as we do, keeping things so behind the scenes, unfortunately feels like the same 'ol same 'ol for all of us and, at least momentarily, a bit much to digest. Jimmy did point us in the right direction for mastering, and I believe he's sincere in his appreciation of our record but still for whatever reasons gave up pretty early in those areas.

We feel that, unfortunately, we've never been really anything all that much more other than a throw it at the wall, see if it sticks, no real ground work, something to take advantage of, last quarter, cook the books, write-off, fuck this headache, hoping to get lucky scam. And, unfortunately, for all their nice words and assurances, nothing that's happened since the week or so before the release has shown us much of anything to the contrary. So at least in regard to the U.S., for the most part I don't look at it like we have a record company -- I look at it for the most part like we have friendly but otherwise cutthroat loan sharks, and we were lucky to get what we got but feel we could have done more if they were at least, especially with some of their backgrounds, a bit more involved creatively. So in light of pirating and the mess the major labels are in, I have no sympathy for the record companies, based on our experiences in the U.S.

AVC: Chinese Democracy took all of 10 years to make. What was the recording process like? I mean, you couldn’t have been working at it every day for 10 years.

TS: At first we were in there a lot. We were working on the writing aspect of it, but it just kept going on. We had [Interscope Chairman] Jimmy Iovine intervening in a not-so-productive way, and we had other guys coming and going with nutty ideas. My summation of the whole thing is that Interscope, when they took over Geffen, really led Axl to believe that Jimmy Iovine would be involved, and would help get this record done and make it happen. But basically what he did was let it completely fall apart. Then he had this great idea to bring in [producer] Roy Thomas Baker to make it sound better. All he did was re-record everything three or four different times, trying to make it sound like something it didn’t need to sound like, and spend $10 million in the process. My two cents on the whole thing is that I really think Jimmy Iovine fucked the whole thing up.

It was a bummer. Most of the songs that are on the record now were done 10 fucking years ago. But all the talking heads in the mix were saying, “Make ’em sound better! Make ’em sound better!” So we kept redoing this and that. And it ended up coming back down to the same fucking songs that they were 10 years ago, except that now they were a super-dense mishmash of a bunch of instrumentation. That whole era pretty much sums up what happened to the record industry. Those kinds of people, making those kinds of decisions and not really helping the artist.

Judging by these quotes from the band, the record company was great.....  

It is a terrible analogy.

There's still no analogy whatsoever. Only examples of record companies not working for their artists' interests. When will you get it?



/jarmo

[mortismurphy]

There is little doubt that the relationship between Axl and Geffen-Interscope was - perhaps, still is - turbulent, and here we have New GN'R (Axl and Stinson's) side. Conversely, we have the fact that Interscope plunged approx. $15 million of their cash into a record that never seemed to surface, and that, Axl missed every deadline put to him! We also have Axl's colossal hissy fit when Interscope finally dropped the record, refusing to promote it.

There are two sides to every story.

- Duff was an artist who finished an album but was dropped due to the late-90s industry mergers.

- Axl was an artist who did not finish an album and was supported (financially) after the late-90s industry mergers.

- Duff seemed to recover from his poor record label relations, subsequently releasing six albums (in various entities) on different labels

- Axl still is on the, one, album (the option is there for him also, to switch labels?)

Just why are you citing Duff then? Analogy, example, what ever your motivation was, their circumstances have no similarity whatsoever.

[jarmo]

Just why are you citing Duff then? Analogy, example, what ever your motivation was, their circumstances have no similarity whatsoever.

Jeez.

The point was, still is, and will be tomorrow, that sometimes it's not just enough to have an album finished ready for release. Record companies aren't your friend. I could've given you a bunch more examples, but I chose something GN'R related. Simple as that.

You seem to not care about this.

There is little doubt that the relationship between Axl and Geffen-Interscope was - perhaps, still is - turbulent, and here we have New GN'R (Axl and Stinson's) side. Conversely, we have the fact that Interscope plunged approx. $15 million of their cash into a record that never seemed to surface, and that, Axl missed every deadline put to him! We also have Axl's colossal hissy fit when Interscope finally dropped the record, refusing to promote it.

There are two sides to every story.

And for some magical reason, you chose to believe the side that's not the band you're claiming to be  a fan of.

Did you even read what he said? It seems like he explained himself. I guess in your perfect world, Axl should've just promoted the album without any involvement from the record company... That makes sense.



/jarmo