"Next Album" rumor / speculation thread *UPDATE AUG 22/2023*

[Ali]

Unfortunately, no, that list is not 100% accurate.

So we are going with semantics now?

This is a common tactic for his hardcore defenders.  You are presented with a list, you take one or maybe two items you can try and make a big deal of as a way to discredit the entire list.  I will agree that the list item about Axl being forced to release it is the weakest of the bunch.  I'd also point out he even said in his post "correct me if I'm wrong".

I do notice you want no parts of the bigger picture items, however.  Axl being the common denominator.  No other bands in the industry seem to have these problems.  The general sentiment about Axl from those that have worked with him.

In essence, here is your pitch :

Please ignore the DECADES (that's decades, plural) of evidence that back up what you are saying about Axl's process.  Instead, go the complete other way and subscribe to the 180 degree the other way theory that he's working his ass off and can't catch a break.  A stance, that by any objective analysis, has FAR less to support it.  Also, please turn off all your common sense about the rest of the industry and how it works.  Or how there is not a figure in the entire music industry with less right to benefit of the doubt than Axl Rose, due to his own actions over 20 plus years.

That makes no sense.  carmiedisco12 says it perfectly.  The onus IS on the people trying to claim that none of this is his fault and its all a wacky misunderstanding.  And though you have next to NOTHING to support it, yours is the stance that's credible.  The opposite stance for which there is real world evidence to support it over a long period of time...that's the erroneous take.

Come on now.  In what other area of life would you try and run that sort of thinking up the flagpole?

Nope, not semantics at all.  You can't in the same post espouse some position that whether or not the album got released was solely dependent on Axl, and then propose that the album may have been forced out by the label.  It's a blatant contradiction.  Either the release was solely up to Axl or it wasn't.  If it was, then the label could not "force" the release.  You can't have it both ways.

As far as the rest of points, that's all hyperbole and frankly irrelevant as to whether or not an album's release is solely up to Axl.

No one is saying NONE of it is Axl's fault.  That's not the position that I'm taking.  So, please, take your straw man argument out of the discussion.  My point is that the release of the album is not solely up to Axl. 

As far as the other issue as to who is to blame for the delay in releasing CD, I have never said that was not his fault at all.  Just that it was not ENTIRELY his fault.  That position is fully supported by the comments of Tommy Stinson, FYI:

What happened when producer Roy Thomas Baker was brought in?
He wanted to re-record everything, because he felt he could get better tones. In my opinion, he wasted many years and many millions of dollars trying to get us better sounds that we could have addressed in the mixing stage.

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=174

Ali

[D-GenerationX]

As far as the other issue as to who is to blame for the delay in releasing CD, I have never said that was not his fault at all.  Just that it was not ENTIRELY his fault. 

OK, then do me a favor.  Put a number on it.  What, in your view, is Axl's percentage?

Mine is 90.  90%.  And I think I'm low, frankly.  But I am trying to be somewhat fair, and at least pay lip service to all this "uncertainty" I'm continuously told is at work here.

What's your number?  And why?

[jarmo]

Axl is holding said album hostage from the fans

 


I'm sorry. I'm lost for words here.
I just can't relate to your world where artists hold albums hostage from their fans.


/jarmo

[Ali]

As far as the other issue as to who is to blame for the delay in releasing CD, I have never said that was not his fault at all.  Just that it was not ENTIRELY his fault. 

OK, then do me a favor.  Put a number on it.  What, in your view, is Axl's percentage?

Mine is 90.  90%.  And I think I'm low, frankly.  But I am trying to be somewhat fair, and at least pay lip service to all this "uncertainty" I'm continuously told is at work here.

What's your number?  And why?

I don't really have a number.  Why would I have a number?  I wasn't there to witness everything that transpired, nor do I presume to know enough to give a specific percentage as to how much blame should be assigned.  At least 50%, definitely not 100%.  Again, not having been there makes it a bit silly to give a specific percentage, IMO.  What does giving a specific percentage of blame now accomplish, anyway?

All I know is that when a band member, particularly Tommy Stinson, who was there for the ENTIRE saga, says that RTB wasted years and millions of dollars, there is clearly more than one factor at play.

Ali

[reayj2003]

I say this out of love and if you knew me you would know how much of a fan of Axl's I am. What is happening exactly? Anyone know? Is there some serious health issues that we don't know about? That could explain a lot.

I know he was ill a lot and he hurt himself so he couldn't run like he used to. Maybe these injuries explain the need for a cane. Maybe it explains why he can't just get himself healthy. I would just hate to think its a lack of a drive. That takes over everything in a persons world. It starts from within. If he isn't able to properly take care of himself and get healthy and fierce how can we expect any movement here.

I am very concerned for Axl. If he could just do something even start taking some kickboxing and feel good about himself maybe he could feel good about other things and we would be closer to getting to hear the music that is in his head.

Anyone know what is going on?

Axl you aren't getting old just older. Nothing stopping a 50 year old from looking savage. Plently of examples out there if you need inspiration. I am pulling for you man. From the heart.

What are you talking about??

As far as I am aware Axl does look after himself. He may not look like a twenty year old..But he's not in bad shape. And in terms of performance gives 100%

[sofine11]

Axl is holding said album hostage from the fans

 


I'm sorry. I'm lost for words here.
I just can't relate to your world where artists hold albums hostage from their fans.


/jarmo

Google's definition for "hostage" is as follows: A person seized or held as security for the fulfillment of a condition.

Replace "person" with "album" and it seems like a pretty legit analogy to describe what's going on with Axl and the label (and subsequently the fans) to me.

[jarmo]

Google's definition for "hostage" is as follows: A person seized or held as security for the fulfillment of a condition.

Replace "person" with "album" and it seems like a pretty legit analogy to describe what's going on with Axl and the label (and subsequently the fans) to me.

I know what it means. So what condition do you need to fulfill for the rest of us to have the album?
You didn't say the label, you said fans.

I'm still convinced that most artists don't hold albums hostage from their fans!



/jarmo

[Dr. Blutarsky]

We don't even know if there is an album in existence to hold hostage 

However, there are outtakes and extras, several to several hundred possibly of them from the Chinese Democracy sessions.

I for one am not holding my breath. When new music comes out I'll buy multiple copies. Until then I may occasionally post here, some maybe critical of the band that will potentially be deleted by Jarmo 

 

[sofine11]

Google's definition for "hostage" is as follows: A person seized or held as security for the fulfillment of a condition.

Replace "person" with "album" and it seems like a pretty legit analogy to describe what's going on with Axl and the label (and subsequently the fans) to me.

I know what it means. So what condition do you need to fulfill for the rest of us to have the album?
You didn't say the label, you said fans.

I'm still convinced that most artists don't hold albums hostage from their fans!



/jarmo

It really wasn't meant to be that deep. I was merely suggesting that holding out (for whatever) from the label essentially keeps new music from the fans.

So no, you may not know many bands that would do that.  You do, however, know someone that talked up several key unreleased songs, referred to the next album as the second album of what he's always considered to be a double album, even hinted at a possible release the following year for it, only to let 5 years roll by without so much as providing a one sentence update about it.  You do know that guy. 

[draguns]

I think valid points are being made in respect to Metallica, U2, and Pearl Jam. I know jarmo probably will not like what  I'm about to say. Lets compare Axl to another former member. Slash has released two albums in three years. He's working on a third album now. He has released a movie and did the sound track for it. He has toured and has been a guest guitarist with  former GNR members. He's also a family guy now. He has been VERY productive. Why has Slash been productive in three years compared to Axl?? I don't get it. Axl is a great singer and has something that no other singers really have.   Yet, he continues to waste time and talent -his own and the new guys. It's just  really mind boggling as to what is going on with him. He probably has legal and record company hurdles, but still things could get done. I just don't think he has that same fire that he did when he was younger. I also think he doesn't have anyone to push him like before. Earlier in this thread, I stated that I think part of the issue is that there is no one else  that has a stake in GNR. Aside from Axl, the new members do not have equity in GNR and can't hold Axl accountable. This is part of the problem.   

[JAEBALL]

I think valid points are being made in respect to Metallica, U2, and Pearl Jam. I know jarmo probably will not like what  I'm about to say. Lets compare Axl to another former member. Slash has released two albums in three years. He's working on a third album now. He has released a movie and did the sound track for it. He has toured and has been a guest guitarist with  former GNR members. He's also a family guy now. He has been VERY productive. Why has Slash been productive in three years compared to Axl?? I don't get it. Axl is a great singer and has something that no other singers really have.   Yet, he continues to waste time and talent -his own and the new guys. It's just  really mind boggling as to what is going on with him. He probably has legal and record company hurdles, but still things could get done. I just don't think he has that same fire that he did when he was younger. I also think he doesn't have anyone to push him like before. Earlier in this thread, I stated that I think part of the issue is that there is no one else  that has a stake in GNR. Aside from Axl, the new members do not have equity in GNR and can't hold Axl accountable. This is part of the problem.   

comparing Axl and Slash is pointless..... for many reasons...


but I do agree about the latter where nobody else in the band has an equal stake.... they dont have or have anything in the way of pushing the band towards anything... they dont even seem to know much about future plans if there are any

where as in the past... some of the former members would do that... and since they didnt agree... they split... ha

[jarmo]

The comparisons between different recording artists.

Different people have different goals. Different standards, different ways of working, different motives, different everything.


Somebody might be able to record an album in six weeks that's forgotten in about the same time so they can go on tour for a year. Some might spend two years on an album. Etc etc.



/jarmo

[JAEBALL]

Agreed.

However the circumstances around this group and its output are beyond comparison in any rational way ... and quite frankly... it sucks.


and until proven wrong... there seems to be no push or desire to create new songs...and again.. that sucks


I know you,  Jarmo personally don't see it that way, but you are not a fan of Axl like the rest of us are ... please dont take that in any way personal... I think ur support of GNR current day is great. but you have a relationship with the guy, travel around the world with him...and in no way can you see things the same way some of us do

we just want the product, where as you care for him on a personal level

[JAEBALL]

I also think its important to note that i firmly believe there are label/contract hold ups that are delaying the releases of the "vault" and other things like the DVD's

because why wouldn't they want to put that stuff out there? that just wouldn't make sense


the troubling part to me personally is the apparent lack of interest in creating with the current guys, especially when ron and DJ seem so intent on doing so

[D-GenerationX]

the troubling part to me personally is the apparent lack of interest in creating with the current guys, especially when ron and DJ seem so intent on doing so

Very much agreed.

Artists create.  Artists record.  Artists release product.  Not *our* artists, of course, but I mean normal bands.  If you aren't going to create, record, and release...what's the point? 

Its like spending an inordinate amount of time on a painting you never let anyone see.  Or, maybe more accurately with this band, never really touching your supplies in the first place.  Then shit on anyone that asks if you ever intend to get around to it, because they'd love to see it because they think you are talented.  But all you are told is that you have some balls on you, asking that stuff.

Its maddening.

[sofine11]

the troubling part to me personally is the apparent lack of interest in creating with the current guys, especially when ron and DJ seem so intent on doing so

Very much agreed.

Artists create.  Artists record.  Artists release product.  Not *our* artists, of course, but I mean normal bands.  If you aren't going to create, record, and release...what's the point? 

Its like spending an inordinate amount of time on a painting you never let anyone see.  Or, maybe more accurately with this band, never really touching your supplies in the first place.  Then shit on anyone that asks if you ever intend to get around to it, because they'd love to see it because they think you are talented.  But all you are told is that you have some balls on you, asking that stuff.

Its maddening.

Pre-2008, I used to get so excited and intrigued whenever someone in "the camp" would talk about about all the music Axl was stockpiling, and how he had this wicked vision of releasing mulitiple albums with all of it.

Now, when I hear someone like DJ talk about all the music Axl has, it just makes me sad, if only because we'll most likely never hear any of it, save for possible leaks.  Where's the fun in that?

[D-GenerationX]

I will be astounded if we ever actually get another proper album.

[sofine11]

I will be astounded if we ever actually get another proper album.

Same here.  Nothing short of a miracle, really.  A glorious miracle.

[Gavgnr]

Pre-2008, I used to get so excited and intrigued whenever someone in "the camp" would talk about about all the music Axl was stockpiling, and how he had this wicked vision of releasing mulitiple albums with all of it.

Now, when I hear someone like DJ talk about all the music Axl has, it just makes me sad, if only because we'll most likely never hear any of it, save for possible leaks.  Where's the fun in that?

Have to echo the sentiments here

[jarmo]

I will be astounded if we ever actually get another proper album.

Is it 2007? Seems like I've read these posts before....  D?j? vu!




/jarmo