"Next Album" rumor / speculation thread *UPDATE AUG 22/2023*

[Ali]

Chinese Democracy was done in 2007.
You honestly think he decided to release it on that exact November in 2008 as soon as the album was done?

I don't think so! So, excuse me for pointing out the obvious, but it can't only be up to Axl when an album is actually released.

/jarmo

Are you sure?

"The name helped the music more than you could ever know and I?m not talking in regards to studios or budgets I mean it as in being pushed by something and having to get the music to a place where I can find my peace regardless of what anyone says. And that wasn?t fully achieved until the last round of mastering and swapping out a version of a track at the pressing plant that had gotten inadvertently changed at the last minute."  -Axl Rose

What exactly is the relevance of that quote to the notion that it's up to Axl solely as to when an album is released?

Ali

[sofine11]

Chinese Democracy was done in 2007.
You honestly think he decided to release it on that exact November in 2008 as soon as the album was done?

I don't think so! So, excuse me for pointing out the obvious, but it can't only be up to Axl when an album is actually released.

/jarmo

Are you sure?

"The name helped the music more than you could ever know and I?m not talking in regards to studios or budgets I mean it as in being pushed by something and having to get the music to a place where I can find my peace regardless of what anyone says. And that wasn?t fully achieved until the last round of mastering and swapping out a version of a track at the pressing plant that had gotten inadvertently changed at the last minute."  -Axl Rose

What exactly is the relevance of that quote to the notion that it's up to Axl solely as to when an album is released?

Ali

The relevance, Ali, is that Jarmo said Axl was completely ready to put out Chinese Democracy in 2007 and that the label was holding things up.  That quote suggests otherwise.  Also, note that Bob Ludwig was not given the album to master until late summer of 2008.

[carmiedisco12]

The reason people assume that Axl is the person holding up releasing music is:

- He is always the common denominator
- No other band on the planet has these issues
- All former band mates manage to release music and they all say that Axl can have some slow/perfectionist/eccentric views on releasing music
- Correct me if I'm wrong (I forget now) but didn't CD get released before Axl was ready to release it?? I thought the label forced the release?? Or is my memory incorrect on this?
- Old interviews with Moby, Brain etc seems to indicate that it was possible that CD may never be released and that it was dependant on Axl's say so.
- He shows no urgency whatsoever in public
- Band mates have publicly expressed frustration urging him to release music. They also seem to have ZERO clue on what the bands plans are.

To believe that Axl is a hungry young lion that is creating furiously and desperate to get the songs out seems to be the 'opinion' requiring proof. The onus is on those defending no music I would say. ALL the circumstantial evidence backs up the more negative view unfortunately.

[Ali]

Chinese Democracy was done in 2007.
You honestly think he decided to release it on that exact November in 2008 as soon as the album was done?

I don't think so! So, excuse me for pointing out the obvious, but it can't only be up to Axl when an album is actually released.

/jarmo

Are you sure?

"The name helped the music more than you could ever know and I?m not talking in regards to studios or budgets I mean it as in being pushed by something and having to get the music to a place where I can find my peace regardless of what anyone says. And that wasn?t fully achieved until the last round of mastering and swapping out a version of a track at the pressing plant that had gotten inadvertently changed at the last minute."  -Axl Rose

What exactly is the relevance of that quote to the notion that it's up to Axl solely as to when an album is released?

Ali

The relevance, Ali, is that Jarmo said Axl was completely ready to put out Chinese Democracy in 2007 and that the label was holding things up.  That quote suggests otherwise.  Also, note that Bob Ludwig was not given the album to master until late summer of 2008.

How exactly does that suggest otherwise?

He says he wasn't at peace with the music until a version of a track was swapped out at the pressing plant.  If the album is at the pressing plant, I think that shows a willingness/desire to release said record.

I'm sorry, I don't see it.  I don't see anything that precludes the label's willingness and desire to release the album as a factor.

Ali

[sofine11]

Chinese Democracy was done in 2007.
You honestly think he decided to release it on that exact November in 2008 as soon as the album was done?

I don't think so! So, excuse me for pointing out the obvious, but it can't only be up to Axl when an album is actually released.

/jarmo

Are you sure?

"The name helped the music more than you could ever know and I?m not talking in regards to studios or budgets I mean it as in being pushed by something and having to get the music to a place where I can find my peace regardless of what anyone says. And that wasn?t fully achieved until the last round of mastering and swapping out a version of a track at the pressing plant that had gotten inadvertently changed at the last minute."  -Axl Rose

What exactly is the relevance of that quote to the notion that it's up to Axl solely as to when an album is released?

Ali

The relevance, Ali, is that Jarmo said Axl was completely ready to put out Chinese Democracy in 2007 and that the label was holding things up.  That quote suggests otherwise.  Also, note that Bob Ludwig was not given the album to master until late summer of 2008.

How exactly does that suggest otherwise?

He says he wasn't at peace with the music until a version of a track was swapped out at the pressing plant.  If the album is at the pressing plant, I think that shows a willingness/desire to release said record.

I'm sorry, I don't see it.  I don't see anything that precludes the label's willingness and desire to release the album as a factor.

Ali

Ali, I honestly have no idea what you're talking about here.  My argument was that Chinese Democracy was not ready to be released in 2007, and was not ready in 2008 until Axl was completely satisfied with the mastering, etc. and that there is nothing the label could have done to get it out faster, unless Axl was on board with where it was at.  That's also I feel about the next album, whatever stage it may be in at this point. 

They can't force Axl to release the rest of the Chi Dem era stuff, and my guess is that after his famous no-show in November of 2008, they're not exactly chomping at the bit to negotiate another GNR release, especially when you consider that the Best Buy deal and subsequent sales more than payed for all the recording sessions, both for Chinese and for what was meant to be on the subsequent albums.   I would wager that it has more to do with Axl at this point, and how he feels about the music, than it does with the label holding things up.

You have to consider, are they in a position to simply say "Pass." to another GNR album?  Even if it does half as good as Chinese it will be profitable for them.  I don't see that as something they'd shrug of.  The apathy sure is coming from somewhere though...

[Ali]

Chinese Democracy was done in 2007.
You honestly think he decided to release it on that exact November in 2008 as soon as the album was done?

I don't think so! So, excuse me for pointing out the obvious, but it can't only be up to Axl when an album is actually released.

/jarmo

Are you sure?

"The name helped the music more than you could ever know and I?m not talking in regards to studios or budgets I mean it as in being pushed by something and having to get the music to a place where I can find my peace regardless of what anyone says. And that wasn?t fully achieved until the last round of mastering and swapping out a version of a track at the pressing plant that had gotten inadvertently changed at the last minute."  -Axl Rose

What exactly is the relevance of that quote to the notion that it's up to Axl solely as to when an album is released?

Ali

The relevance, Ali, is that Jarmo said Axl was completely ready to put out Chinese Democracy in 2007 and that the label was holding things up.  That quote suggests otherwise.  Also, note that Bob Ludwig was not given the album to master until late summer of 2008.

How exactly does that suggest otherwise?

He says he wasn't at peace with the music until a version of a track was swapped out at the pressing plant.  If the album is at the pressing plant, I think that shows a willingness/desire to release said record.

I'm sorry, I don't see it.  I don't see anything that precludes the label's willingness and desire to release the album as a factor.

Ali

Ali, I honestly have no idea what you're talking about here.  My argument was that Chinese Democracy was not ready to be released in 2007, and was not ready in 2008 until Axl was completely satisfied with the mastering, etc. and that there is nothing the label could have done to get it out faster, unless Axl was on board with where it was at.  That's also I feel about the next album, whatever stage it may be in at this point. 

They can't force Axl to release the rest of the Chi Dem era stuff, and my guess is that after his famous no-show in November of 2008, they're not exactly chomping at the bit to negotiate another GNR release, especially when you consider that the Best Buy deal and subsequent sales more than payed for all the recording sessions, both for Chinese and for what was meant to be on the subsequent albums.   I would wager that it has more to do with Axl at this point, and how he feels about the music, than it does with the label holding things up.

You have to consider, are they in a position to simply say "Pass." to another GNR album?  Even if it does half as good as Chinese it will be profitable for them.  I don't see that as something they'd shrug of.  The apathy sure is coming from somewhere though...

That makes two of us because I don't see how the quote you cited supports your argument.  I just don't see how that precludes anything from the label's side.  I don't disagree that the mastering took place in 2008 as I've read Bob Ludwig's comments on that.  I just don't see how that precludes willingness from the label's side to release the album as being a factor. 

It is ultimately their product being put on sale.  They have to agree to put out said product.

As far as who is at fault for not releasing another album, I'm sure there is blame to around to both parties and that things are more complicated than outsiders like us know or will ever know.  There could be music-readiness issues, there could be marketing budget/plan and/or financial issues, or all of the above issues at play.  We may never know.

Ali

[One.In.A.Million]

The reason people assume that Axl is the person holding up releasing music is:

- He is always the common denominator
- No other band on the planet has these issues
- All former band mates manage to release music and they all say that Axl can have some slow/perfectionist/eccentric views on releasing music
- Correct me if I'm wrong (I forget now) but didn't CD get released before Axl was ready to release it?? I thought the label forced the release?? Or is my memory incorrect on this?
- Old interviews with Moby, Brain etc seems to indicate that it was possible that CD may never be released and that it was dependant on Axl's say so.
- He shows no urgency whatsoever in public
- Band mates have publicly expressed frustration urging him to release music. They also seem to have ZERO clue on what the bands plans are.

To believe that Axl is a hungry young lion that is creating furiously and desperate to get the songs out seems to be the 'opinion' requiring proof. The onus is on those defending no music I would say. ALL the circumstantial evidence backs up the more negative view unfortunately.

I don't neither believe or disbelieve that Axl is the one holding things up, but one thing you can't deny is that the urgency really doesn't seem to be there. And whenever various band mates talk about the issue, they do seem to conclude that it lies at Axl's door, just the vibe I get from certain interviews (some MUCH more than others). I feel the above post is a great one, and it's hard to argue against it to be fair.

[D-GenerationX]

Without the leaks, you wouldn't have anything other than live versions to compare to and chances are you wouldn't even make comments like "this part is not needed".

I completely agree.

But, you can't unring that bell, I'm afraid.  No objective analysis of the leaks versus what became the finished product could justify over 2 years of further delay.

And just on another front, all that time, and some of those vocals tracks were damn near 10 years old.  I can't have been the only one that assumed all this delay and all this waiting around would lead to at least one or two vocal tracks being redone.

I suppose this is where you come back and say we shouldn't listen to leaks, but again, I'm talking real world.  They were out there, and 97% of us heard them.  That's just life in the big city.

[D-GenerationX]

The reason people assume that Axl is the person holding up releasing music is:

- He is always the common denominator
- No other band on the planet has these issues
- All former band mates manage to release music and they all say that Axl can have some slow/perfectionist/eccentric views on releasing music
- Correct me if I'm wrong (I forget now) but didn't CD get released before Axl was ready to release it?? I thought the label forced the release?? Or is my memory incorrect on this?
- Old interviews with Moby, Brain etc seems to indicate that it was possible that CD may never be released and that it was dependant on Axl's say so.
- He shows no urgency whatsoever in public
- Band mates have publicly expressed frustration urging him to release music. They also seem to have ZERO clue on what the bands plans are.

To believe that Axl is a hungry young lion that is creating furiously and desperate to get the songs out seems to be the 'opinion' requiring proof. The onus is on those defending no music I would say. ALL the circumstantial evidence backs up the more negative view unfortunately.

100% accurate, that list.

And that last paragraph is the hard truth many choose not to accept.

[Ali]

The reason people assume that Axl is the person holding up releasing music is:

- He is always the common denominator
- No other band on the planet has these issues
- All former band mates manage to release music and they all say that Axl can have some slow/perfectionist/eccentric views on releasing music
- Correct me if I'm wrong (I forget now) but didn't CD get released before Axl was ready to release it?? I thought the label forced the release?? Or is my memory incorrect on this?
- Old interviews with Moby, Brain etc seems to indicate that it was possible that CD may never be released and that it was dependant on Axl's say so.
- He shows no urgency whatsoever in public
- Band mates have publicly expressed frustration urging him to release music. They also seem to have ZERO clue on what the bands plans are.

To believe that Axl is a hungry young lion that is creating furiously and desperate to get the songs out seems to be the 'opinion' requiring proof. The onus is on those defending no music I would say. ALL the circumstantial evidence backs up the more negative view unfortunately.

100% accurate, that list.

And that last paragraph is the hard truth many choose not to accept.

Unfortunately, no, that list is not 100% accurate.

Where was it said the release was forced? According to who?

Where are these old interviews saying the album may never have been released? Who were these interviews with?

What exactly would constitute showing "public urgency" anyway?

BBF has expressed frustration that the current lineup hasn't all gotten together to write and record.

Ali

[D-GenerationX]

Unfortunately, no, that list is not 100% accurate.

So we are going with semantics now?

This is a common tactic for his hardcore defenders.  You are presented with a list, you take one or maybe two items you can try and make a big deal of as a way to discredit the entire list.  I will agree that the list item about Axl being forced to release it is the weakest of the bunch.  I'd also point out he even said in his post "correct me if I'm wrong".

I do notice you want no parts of the bigger picture items, however.  Axl being the common denominator.  No other bands in the industry seem to have these problems.  The general sentiment about Axl from those that have worked with him.

In essence, here is your pitch :

Please ignore the DECADES (that's decades, plural) of evidence that back up what you are saying about Axl's process.  Instead, go the complete other way and subscribe to the 180 degree the other way theory that he's working his ass off and can't catch a break.  A stance, that by any objective analysis, has FAR less to support it.  Also, please turn off all your common sense about the rest of the industry and how it works.  Or how there is not a figure in the entire music industry with less right to benefit of the doubt than Axl Rose, due to his own actions over 20 plus years.

That makes no sense.  carmiedisco12 says it perfectly.  The onus IS on the people trying to claim that none of this is his fault and its all a wacky misunderstanding.  And though you have next to NOTHING to support it, yours is the stance that's credible.  The opposite stance for which there is real world evidence to support it over a long period of time...that's the erroneous take.

Come on now.  In what other area of life would you try and run that sort of thinking up the flagpole?

[carmiedisco12]

Thanks D-Gen.

Yes I specifically said I wasn't sure on the issue of CD being a forced release as it's been a few years and I have stopped following GNR in a day to day fashion. As the booklet and artwork was clearly not what Axl had intended I thought that the release of the album must have been the labels doing and the band acquiesced when they realized the writing was on the wall....seems not.

But you get the gist of what I was saying.

It beggars belief that the least likely answer to the puzzle is so often devoutly argued as the only answer a 'fan' can have. Sorry I don't check my critical faculties and logic in at the door for anyone. That's for religionists and idealogues. I don't believe in blind faith. Yes support is great but blind support with NO ability to constructively criticize/acknowledge diminishes you as a human being and only enables and magnifies the faults of the deity/hero you follow.

Lecture over

The math is simple.

[D-GenerationX]

You have to be objective if you wish to maintain any sort of credibility. 

I can't think of literally one other argument where I could tell someone with an opinion backed up by a subject's track record and years of history that they have no basis for that stance.  Instead, they should think the complete opposite, despite no proof at all to support it.

With no other topic would I do that.  So when a certain segment of GNR fandom asks me to do just that, I cannot.  Its illogical and not credible.

[Princess Leia]

Axl himself has said in interviews (L.A. Times, USA Today, Extended Inteview with Australia?s adelaides.com.au) that he hates the current state of affairs in the music industry. And that the label never gave them much support. Maybe the fact that he is so vocal about the music industry is not playing in his favor nor in ours. I don?t know how many people read those interviews but if you haven?t my advice is to read them. Then it?s up to you to believe or not his answers and explantions. The way I see it if he hates the industry I can?t expect things to go smoothy.

[LongGoneDay]

I believe that if creating and releasing music was Axl's priority, it would get done one way or the other.
He doesn't come across as a pushover. More so as stubborn.

I don't doubt there have been hurdles along the way, but believe lack of motivation/inspiration is more to blame.
Maybe he's worn down by the legal battles, is uninspired by the musicians he's surrounded himself with, doesn't have people to push him, or simply ran out of things to say. Who knows? It's all speculation, though he has alluded to lack of inspiration in interviews. All we know for a fact is that not much has been accomplished commercially since old Guns.

Something has drastically changed over the years, other than the obvious personnel.
I personally believe his creative fire has waned. If it hadn't, he would find a way to release new music, whether it be under Guns N' Roses, a new band(let's face it, this shouldn't exactly feel like stepping outside his comfort zone) or solo.

I understand there is music in the vaults, but how much is finished we don't know. If the trilogy truly exists, then 3 albums certainly seems like less of a drought than 1 album in 20 years, but it's still a far cry from the production we were accustomed to from Axl, albeit for a small window of time('87-'93).

We've had a long time to get used to this fact though, and I am far beyond the point of surprise, shock and disappointment in regards to the lack of direction of Guns N' Roses. There's no explaining it away, so I guess it doesn't really much matter the reasons why. Personally I could relate to lack of inspiration, but have a feeling any explanation would probably fall on deaf ears anyway.

[carmiedisco12]

Axl himself has said in interviews (L.A. Times, USA Today, Extended Inteview with Australia?s adelaides.com.au) that he hates the current state of affairs in the music industry. And that the label never gave them much support. Maybe the fact that he is so vocal about the music industry is not playing in his favor nor in ours. I don?t know how many people read those interviews but if you haven?t my advice is to read them. Then it?s up to you to believe or not his answers and explantions. The way I see it if he hates the industry I can?t expect things to go smoothy.

So you have created a hopeful scenario to avoid the bleeding obvious logical answer then is what you are saying? Like a cult follower saying ahh well the end of days didn't come as predicted but maybe that's cos of........... That way you can keep coming up with baseless excuses and never have to face facts.

many artists slag the music industry. If he so chose he could get music out even under a different name, independently etc.

Sorry that came across a little more aggressively than I'd intended but sheesh logic 101 people the simplest answer is usually the correct one. When all the evidence backs it up then seriously why make wild speculations to avoid a difficult outcome.

[D-GenerationX]

Axl himself has said in interviews (L.A. Times, USA Today, Extended Inteview with Australia?s adelaides.com.au) that he hates the current state of affairs in the music industry. And that the label never gave them much support. Maybe the fact that he is so vocal about the music industry is not playing in his favor nor in ours. I don?t know how many people read those interviews but if you haven?t my advice is to read them. Then it?s up to you to believe or not his answers and explantions. The way I see it if he hates the industry I can?t expect things to go smoothy.

Artists have hated "the industry" since time immemorial.  They also still seem to release music though.

This is what people mean when they ask how come there seems to be a special set of obstacles and problems for this band, and this band alone. 

[Princess Leia]

Axl himself has said in interviews (L.A. Times, USA Today, Extended Inteview with Australia?s adelaides.com.au) that he hates the current state of affairs in the music industry. And that the label never gave them much support. Maybe the fact that he is so vocal about the music industry is not playing in his favor nor in ours. I don?t know how many people read those interviews but if you haven?t my advice is to read them. Then it?s up to you to believe or not his answers and explantions. The way I see it if he hates the industry I can?t expect things to go smoothy.

Artists have hated "the industry" since time immemorial.  They also still seem to release music though.

This is what people mean when they ask how come there seems to be a special set of obstacles and problems for this band, and this band alone. 

Let me put it this way. We got CD in 2008 because Dr. Pepper was there with a deal, if you remember. So there were obstacles.

[jarmo]

You have to be objective if you wish to maintain any sort of credibility. 

So the quarterback of the NY Giants can't be credible because he obviously sees things from a different perspective than somebody from the NY Jets?



sofine11, you don't master an album until it's done and ready. Chances are, you don't wanna master an album until you have a release date for it. Something which requires inpput from the record company... I can show you a quote which states Axl wanted to release the album in March 2007 if you wish.


Some of you are saying ridiculous things like "other bands release albums" or "nobody else has issues with record companies".

Everybody's favorite fan friendly metal band hasn't released a proper album since 2008, continues to tour and promotes yet another concert film. Iron Maiden keeps touring, on a tour based on an 1980s concert film/tour, no new album since 2010.
Pearl Jam are releasing their first new album since 2009 next week. Way different than their early 90s "release schedule".
The Rolling Stones keeps releasing albums decade after decade, but their last studio album came out in 2005.
U2 hasn't released a studio album since early 2009.
Dr Dre is still working on Detox.





/jarmo

[carmiedisco12]

You have to be objective if you wish to maintain any sort of credibility. 

So the quarterback of the NY Giants can't be credible because he obviously sees things from a different perspective than somebody from the NY Jets?



sofine11, you don't master an album until it's done and ready. Chances are, you don't wanna master an album until you have a release date for it. Something which requires inpput from the record company... I can show you a quote which states Axl wanted to release the album in March 2007 if you wish.



Some of you are saying ridiculous things like "other bands release albums" or "nobody else has issues with record companies".

Everybody's favorite fan friendly metal band hasn't released a proper album since 2008, continues to tour and promotes yet another concert film. Iron Maiden keeps touring, on a tour based on an 1980s concert film/tour, no new album since 2010.
Pearl Jam are releasing their first new album since 2009 next week. Way different than their early 90s "release schedule".
The Rolling Stones keeps releasing albums decade after decade, but their last studio album came out in 2005.
U2 hasn't released a studio album since early 2009.
Dr Dre is still working on Detox.





/jarmo

Jarmo I dare you to say GNR hasn't released an album since 2008 just like the bands you mentioned on ANY of those bands forums and make the comparison. State that the GNR situation is comparable...go on do it

If you can find ONE comment that doesn't laugh you out of the place I will quit this forum for good. I am THAT confidant the situation is COMPLETELY different to the bands you mentioned. Do you really think GNR's situation is comparable...I mean with a straight face??? C'mon now be serious, don't treat people like fools.

Those bands all built up a serious level of fan and peer respect through repeated releases, backing up their word. None ran off for close to 2 decades and said 'hey guys we have heaps of music' then failed to release it.

If we are to compare bands then how many releases happened between 93 - 2008?? Ok lets not be picky. Name another band that has done the same as far as not releasing music over 2 decades yet claimed they have written and recorded many albums? One that wants to and had intentions of being a relevant creative force?

Not asking for 10 bands just one??