"Next Album" rumor / speculation thread *UPDATE AUG 22/2023*

[spgunner]

One album does not create an ouvre or legacy.

Really?

So why do people still listen to the Sex Pistols? For example. One fucking album.

You only state that because it suits your point of view, when in fact there's proof of the opposite being true as well.




This whole overproduced discussion. It's hilarious. People use it as an example of something bad. Chinese may have lots of layers, maybe too many for those who have short attention spans. 

But to use the term overproduced is just nonsense. It's another easy way of attacking the music. You can take a garage recording and make it sound like shit. Or you can make a proper recording and then make it sound amazing, like Chinese. But nobody says the garage recording that's mastered too loud is "overproduced". Why not? 


It?s funny how people see AFD as a raw album. There are many elements there, many different vocals, guitars, backings n? others ? I can agree the Suicide side of Lies is very raw but Appetite? It?s very complex in many ways, even more if you compare it to another albums from late 80?s. Use Your Illusion followed it, it?s a natural evolution. I see some of the AFD ?rawness? n? the complex side of Illusions in CD. It?s just the natural order again.
The same people who complained about Use Your Illusion at the early 90?s saying the band wasn?t the same anymore (ignoring that some songs there were older than Appetite lol) are the same kind of people who nowadays love both AFD n UYI n complain about CD and will be the same people who will love AFD + UYI + CD n? will complain about the new record when it comes out. 

[LongGoneDay]

I have absolutely no problem with "complex" music. My comments regarding Chinese were that the complexity doesn't sound cohesive to my ears. It sounds exactly as it was recorded in actuality, the bones of the songs written long ago, and then added to and added to, or as Bob Ezrin put it, "painted over too many times".

It's been pointed out that maybe this was in fact the intent from the get go, and if that is the case, great, job well done. Mission accomplished. No one is saying the sky is falling. I still think the album has it's moments, and can certainly understand why others enjoy it more than I do.

I am not sold that this was the plan. I just can't picture a singer sitting down to listen to tracks presented to him by his band, and saying "goddamn, this is some good shit! I'm so pumped and inspired I think I'll get around to adding lyrics to it in 10 years". Who knows what went on behind the scenes, and maybe it had little impact on the eventual sound, but to my ears it sounds like a band with way too much time on it's hands.

As far as "rawness" goes, I don't hear the slightest hint of it on Chinese, and that's what I probably miss most. AFD sounds cohesive. Sounds like a band getting in a room, and playing their songs. I don't hear any of the influences on AFD carrying over to CD, and don't expect to. It's a totally different band. I like Chinese Democracy for what it is, but a "natural evolution" of GN'Rs sound it certainly is not. More like an absolute and total departure.
We will never know what the natural progression may have sounded like, but the new guys are not the ones to try and show us. Nor would I think they'd be interested in trying.

I will say that I love the live versions I hear of songs like Street of Dreams, Catcher etc, and prefer them over the studio versions.
Would be cool to hear them take that approach into the studio.

[kyrie]

I have absolutely no problem with "complex" music. My comments regarding Chinese were that the complexity doesn't sound cohesive to my ears. It sounds exactly as it was recorded in actuality, the bones of the songs written long ago, and then added to and added to, or as Bob Ezrin put it, "painted over too many times".

It's been pointed out that maybe this was in fact the intent from the get go, and if that is the case, great, job well done. Mission accomplished. No one is saying the sky is falling. I still think the album has it's moments, and can certainly understand why others enjoy it more than I do.

I am not sold that this was the plan. I just can't picture a singer sitting down to listen to tracks presented to him by his band, and saying "goddamn, this is some good shit! I'm so pumped and inspired I think I'll get around to adding lyrics to it in 10 years". Who knows what went on behind the scenes, and maybe it had little impact on the eventual sound, but to my ears it sounds like a band with way too much time on it's hands.

As far as "rawness" goes, I don't hear the slightest hint of it on Chinese, and that's what I probably miss most. AFD sounds cohesive. Sounds like a band getting in a room, and playing their songs. I don't hear any of the influences on AFD carrying over to CD, and don't expect to. It's a totally different band. I like Chinese Democracy for what it is, but a "natural evolution" of GN'Rs sound it certainly is not. More like an absolute and total departure.
We will never know what the natural progression may have sounded like, but the new guys are not the ones to try and show us. Nor would I think they'd be interested in trying.

I will say that I love the live versions I hear of songs like Street of Dreams, Catcher etc, and prefer them over the studio versions.
Would be cool to hear them take that approach into the studio.

People keep comparing Chinese Democracy to AFD - why?
That was the band's first major label release.
It has a distinctly different tone and sound than the Illusions or TSI. Lies comes close but was recorded before (the Live Like a Suicide part)/around the same time.

A better comparison is CD to UYI, and I think CD lives up to those albums and in some cases surpasses them. UYI didn't have that cohesive sound to my ears either. However, it had some great individual tunes, as does CD.

AFD was a moment in time. If you're looking for the second coming, you're going to be disappointed.

[jarmo]

I have absolutely no problem with "complex" music. My comments regarding Chinese were that the complexity doesn't sound cohesive to my ears. It sounds exactly as it was recorded in actuality, the bones of the songs written long ago, and then added to and added to, or as Bob Ezrin put it, "painted over too many times".

See the post below yours. It brings up the point that the Use Your Illusion albums were the same way.

It doesn't sound like a band in the room together either. Is it "overproduced" as well? Just like with Chinese Democracy, people involved in making those albums were either gone or leaving when the albums were released.




/jarmo

[sky dog]

I have absolutely no problem with "complex" music. My comments regarding Chinese were that the complexity doesn't sound cohesive to my ears. It sounds exactly as it was recorded in actuality, the bones of the songs written long ago, and then added to and added to, or as Bob Ezrin put it, "painted over too many times".

It's been pointed out that maybe this was in fact the intent from the get go, and if that is the case, great, job well done. Mission accomplished. No one is saying the sky is falling. I still think the album has it's moments, and can certainly understand why others enjoy it more than I do.

I am not sold that this was the plan. I just can't picture a singer sitting down to listen to tracks presented to him by his band, and saying "goddamn, this is some good shit! I'm so pumped and inspired I think I'll get around to adding lyrics to it in 10 years". Who knows what went on behind the scenes, and maybe it had little impact on the eventual sound, but to my ears it sounds like a band with way too much time on it's hands.

As far as "rawness" goes, I don't hear the slightest hint of it on Chinese, and that's what I probably miss most. AFD sounds cohesive. Sounds like a band getting in a room, and playing their songs. I don't hear any of the influences on AFD carrying over to CD, and don't expect to. It's a totally different band. I like Chinese Democracy for what it is, but a "natural evolution" of GN'Rs sound it certainly is not. More like an absolute and total departure.
We will never know what the natural progression may have sounded like, but the new guys are not the ones to try and show us. Nor would I think they'd be interested in trying.

I will say that I love the live versions I hear of songs like Street of Dreams, Catcher etc, and prefer them over the studio versions.
Would be cool to hear them take that approach into the studio.

People keep comparing Chinese Democracy to AFD - why?
That was the band's first major label release.
It has a distinctly different tone and sound than the Illusions or TSI. Lies comes close but was recorded before (the Live Like a Suicide part)/around the same time.

A better comparison is CD to UYI, and I think CD lives up to those albums and in some cases surpasses them. UYI didn't have that cohesive sound to my ears either. However, it had some great individual tunes, as does CD.

AFD was a moment in time. If you're looking for the second coming, you're going to be disappointed.

good post...agree

[LongGoneDay]

I have absolutely no problem with "complex" music. My comments regarding Chinese were that the complexity doesn't sound cohesive to my ears. It sounds exactly as it was recorded in actuality, the bones of the songs written long ago, and then added to and added to, or as Bob Ezrin put it, "painted over too many times".

It's been pointed out that maybe this was in fact the intent from the get go, and if that is the case, great, job well done. Mission accomplished. No one is saying the sky is falling. I still think the album has it's moments, and can certainly understand why others enjoy it more than I do.

I am not sold that this was the plan. I just can't picture a singer sitting down to listen to tracks presented to him by his band, and saying "goddamn, this is some good shit! I'm so pumped and inspired I think I'll get around to adding lyrics to it in 10 years". Who knows what went on behind the scenes, and maybe it had little impact on the eventual sound, but to my ears it sounds like a band with way too much time on it's hands.

As far as "rawness" goes, I don't hear the slightest hint of it on Chinese, and that's what I probably miss most. AFD sounds cohesive. Sounds like a band getting in a room, and playing their songs. I don't hear any of the influences on AFD carrying over to CD, and don't expect to. It's a totally different band. I like Chinese Democracy for what it is, but a "natural evolution" of GN'Rs sound it certainly is not. More like an absolute and total departure.
We will never know what the natural progression may have sounded like, but the new guys are not the ones to try and show us. Nor would I think they'd be interested in trying.

I will say that I love the live versions I hear of songs like Street of Dreams, Catcher etc, and prefer them over the studio versions.
Would be cool to hear them take that approach into the studio.

People keep comparing Chinese Democracy to AFD - why?
That was the band's first major label release.
It has a distinctly different tone and sound than the Illusions or TSI. Lies comes close but was recorded before (the Live Like a Suicide part)/around the same time.

A better comparison is CD to UYI, and I think CD lives up to those albums and in some cases surpasses them. UYI didn't have that cohesive sound to my ears either. However, it had some great individual tunes, as does CD.

AFD was a moment in time. If you're looking for the second coming, you're going to be disappointed.

I agree, and said as much above.
I don't hear any similarities from AFD to CD, and hardly any UYI to CD, and didn't expect I would because GN'R today is an Axl Rose away from having nothing to do with previous albums.
It was in response to spgunner's post. I'm not expecting to hear an album of AFD or UYIs caliber from anybody again in my lifetime.
Those are monumental albums, and we are in the midst of a long drought of good popular music, never mind epic.

To a small extent, I could maybe hear Street of Dreams as like a B-Side off of UYI. It has kind of a November Rain/Estranged- Light sound to it.
The familiar Elton John influence rears it's head which is cool.

This isn't a negative. I happen to prefer the older sounds because I'm drawn to bands like early Aerosmith, Faces, Rolling Stones, New York Dolls etc.
The down and dirty rock n' roll bands. The ex-members took those influences with them when they left, and what we have now is a melting pot of new influences, which is cool and interesting at the very least for me to hear Axl blend w/them.
I was aware of a few, but not a fan of any of the members to join since, other than Freese w/the Vandals.
I do appreciate what Finck, Bucket and company brought to the table, but it's an entirely new style, and I wasn't in love with the entirety of the record, and I think a lot of it had to do with how clean(for lack of a better word) it sounds.

[LongGoneDay]

I have absolutely no problem with "complex" music. My comments regarding Chinese were that the complexity doesn't sound cohesive to my ears. It sounds exactly as it was recorded in actuality, the bones of the songs written long ago, and then added to and added to, or as Bob Ezrin put it, "painted over too many times".

See the post below yours. It brings up the point that the Use Your Illusion albums were the same way.

It doesn't sound like a band in the room together either. Is it "overproduced" as well? Just like with Chinese Democracy, people involved in making those albums were either gone or leaving when the albums were released.




/jarmo

UYI doesn't sound "overproduced" to me, but I guess I can understand why some feel it does.
I never thought so upon release, but when I hear it today, maybe the Live and Let Die cover is teetering on the edge.

Also, from a writing stand point, yes they added songs much more complex and epic like November Rain, Estranged, Locomotive etc, but then there are also songs like RNDTH, Perfect Crime, Bad Apples, Dead Horse that wouldn't have felt that out of place on AFD.

Overall, it does sound like a band in a room to me, granted a tight as fuck band in a room!

I don't have a problem with the personnel. Live, I think a lot of the new songs kick ass. I think it's the overall slick sound of the studio versions that bothers me most.

[stvyrayvhn]

I have absolutely no problem with "complex" music. My comments regarding Chinese were that the complexity doesn't sound cohesive to my ears. It sounds exactly as it was recorded in actuality, the bones of the songs written long ago, and then added to and added to, or as Bob Ezrin put it, "painted over too many times".

See the post below yours. It brings up the point that the Use Your Illusion albums were the same way.

It doesn't sound like a band in the room together either. Is it "overproduced" as well? Just like with Chinese Democracy, people involved in making those albums were either gone or leaving when the albums were released.




/jarmo

UYI doesn't sound "overproduced" to me, but I guess I can understand why some feel it does.
I never thought so upon release, but when I hear it today, maybe the Live and Let Die cover is teetering on the edge.

Also, from a writing stand point, yes they added songs much more complex and epic like November Rain, Estranged, Locomotive etc, but then there are also songs like RNDTH, Perfect Crime, Bad Apples, Dead Horse that wouldn't have felt that out of place on AFD.

Overall, it does sound like a band in a room to me, granted a tight as fuck band in a room!

I don't have a problem with the personnel. Live, I think a lot of the new songs kick ass. I think it's the overall slick sound of the studio versions that bothers me most.

I have to agree with Jarmo on this, UYI sounds a little overproduced in some areas but others they hit it dead on.  Not every great album sounded great though...   Look at Metallica's ...And Justice For All, great album sounds like shit and yet groundbreaking...  It can be done.

[rebelhipi]

illusions dosent sound oveproduced at all to me. infact its one of the best soundin albums ever for me.
i like the sound of cd but it took a while for me to get used to hear all those guitar tracks and other stuff that you cant really hear

[sky dog]

I have absolutely no problem with "complex" music. My comments regarding Chinese were that the complexity doesn't sound cohesive to my ears. It sounds exactly as it was recorded in actuality, the bones of the songs written long ago, and then added to and added to, or as Bob Ezrin put it, "painted over too many times".

It's been pointed out that maybe this was in fact the intent from the get go, and if that is the case, great, job well done. Mission accomplished. No one is saying the sky is falling. I still think the album has it's moments, and can certainly understand why others enjoy it more than I do.

I am not sold that this was the plan. I just can't picture a singer sitting down to listen to tracks presented to him by his band, and saying "goddamn, this is some good shit! I'm so pumped and inspired I think I'll get around to adding lyrics to it in 10 years". Who knows what went on behind the scenes, and maybe it had little impact on the eventual sound, but to my ears it sounds like a band with way too much time on it's hands.

As far as "rawness" goes, I don't hear the slightest hint of it on Chinese, and that's what I probably miss most. AFD sounds cohesive. Sounds like a band getting in a room, and playing their songs. I don't hear any of the influences on AFD carrying over to CD, and don't expect to. It's a totally different band. I like Chinese Democracy for what it is, but a "natural evolution" of GN'Rs sound it certainly is not. More like an absolute and total departure.
We will never know what the natural progression may have sounded like, but the new guys are not the ones to try and show us. Nor would I think they'd be interested in trying.

I will say that I love the live versions I hear of songs like Street of Dreams, Catcher etc, and prefer them over the studio versions.
Would be cool to hear them take that approach into the studio.

People keep comparing Chinese Democracy to AFD - why?
That was the band's first major label release.
It has a distinctly different tone and sound than the Illusions or TSI. Lies comes close but was recorded before (the Live Like a Suicide part)/around the same time.

A better comparison is CD to UYI, and I think CD lives up to those albums and in some cases surpasses them. UYI didn't have that cohesive sound to my ears either. However, it had some great individual tunes, as does CD.

AFD was a moment in time. If you're looking for the second coming, you're going to be disappointed.

I agree, and said as much above.
I don't hear any similarities from AFD to CD, and hardly any UYI to CD, and didn't expect I would because GN'R today is an Axl Rose away from having nothing to do with previous albums.
It was in response to spgunner's post. I'm not expecting to hear an album of AFD or UYIs caliber from anybody again in my lifetime.
Those are monumental albums, and we are in the midst of a long drought of good popular music, never mind epic.

To a small extent, I could maybe hear Street of Dreams as like a B-Side off of UYI. It has kind of a November Rain/Estranged- Light sound to it.
The familiar Elton John influence rears it's head which is cool.

This isn't a negative. I happen to prefer the older sounds because I'm drawn to bands like early Aerosmith, Faces, Rolling Stones, New York Dolls etc.
The down and dirty rock n' roll bands. The ex-members took those influences with them when they left, and what we have now is a melting pot of new influences, which is cool and interesting at the very least for me to hear Axl blend w/them.
I was aware of a few, but not a fan of any of the members to join since, other than Freese w/the Vandals.
I do appreciate what Finck, Bucket and company brought to the table, but it's an entirely new style, and I wasn't in love with the entirety of the record, and I think a lot of it had to do with how clean(for lack of a better word) it sounds.

Street of Dreams isn't a b Side UYI song....it would fit in perfectly as an a-side album track on UYI II....PLUS, Tommy Stinson, who actually co wrote SOD, is straight up old school rocker just like Duff. Absolutely no difference between the two and Tommy would have fit in the old band perfectly if fate hadn't put him with The Replacements

[LongGoneDay]

Never dug the Replacements.
I know they share some of the same influences, but I always felt their music was too safe sounding for my ears.

Goes w/o saying that theres a big difference between Duff and Tommy, because they are two completely different people, with varying influences, different upbringings, experiences, opinions, ideas, and chemistry w/other members.
I hear nothing resembling punk influence on Chinese Democracy, but it's all over AFD, Lies, UYI and obviously TSI.

[faldor]

I always thought there was a pretty big progression from AFD to UYI, and the progression to CD was along the same lines.  If you were fine with the changes from AFD to UYI, I don't see why CD should be viewed much differently, strictly speaking as to the sound of the album.  Seemed like quite the natural progression the band was going in to me.  Aside from the baggage that surrounded the album, the lack of old faces and presence of new ones, the lack of the epic music videos to accommodate the songs, etc.  I can understand why those things may be hard for some to overlook, but let's be fair when making an honest assessment. 

[jarmo]

I hear nothing resembling punk influence on Chinese Democracy, but it's all over AFD, Lies, UYI and obviously TSI.

Yeah, there's no songs that sound like the Ramones on it, but then again The Clash didn't sound a lot like the Ramones later in their career either...





/jarmo

[LongGoneDay]

I always thought there was a pretty big progression from AFD to UYI, and the progression to CD was along the same lines.  If you were fine with the changes from AFD to UYI, I don't see why CD should be viewed much differently, strictly speaking as to the sound of the album.  Seemed like quite the natural progression the band was going in to me.  Aside from the baggage that surrounded the album, the lack of old faces and presence of new ones, the lack of the epic music videos to accommodate the songs, etc.  I can understand why those things may be hard for some to overlook, but let's be fair when making an honest assessment. 

I think I'm being more than fair.
I don't buy the "natural progression" from UYI to Chinese for one second.
Sorry, starting a new band isn't a natural progression in my book.

I feel it's essentially a slap in the face to all members involved, and those who weren't.

It's playing make believe to think that putting Tommy in a time machine to replace Duff would produce the same results, that Tommy would write So Fine, or to think that the old band would ever have a hand in a sound such as Shacklers Revenge.
Different players with different influences & playing styles playing different music is not progression.

You don't just walk into a band and replace one of the most popular guitarists of all time like he was never there and call it evolution.
And I'm pretty sure no one was trying to, so I fail to see how it could be mistaken as progression. The band progressed from AFD to UYI, then came to a screeching halt any way you slice it, and then it slowly started over again, essentially from scratch.

Listen to what the ex members have been up to since they left, and whether you enjoy the music or not, tell me that Chinese Democracy was the album they would have put out had they stayed together.
If your answer is no, as it should be, then there you have it.
The styles of music varies, but most of the obvious influences we heard during their time in GN'R are still evident in their music today.
No reason to think that would have, or ever will change.

Simply put, it's physically impossible for a bands sound to progress when the incarnation of said band ceases to exist.

[Nytunz]

I'm actually quite upset how some people claim there is  continuity between Uyi and CD. Some kind of evolution. There is no such a thing at all! Its the opposite. There is discontinuity, break and changes. Its not like GNR has been put in a box, cut of from society, evolving on its own since 1993-94. First of.. There is only 2 members left from the UYI era. A whole new way of making music. The industry has changed. The members have changed (even Axl) he`s not the same as he was back in the UYI era. Like every other human being, even Axl change. we get older, he gets older. New relations etc. etc.

I see CD and UYI as totaly different albums... Of course there are some things that can reimind me of certain songs on on UYI. You can hear Axl play the piano, his voice, In some ways in hes lyrics.. (but even they have changed in many ways). So.. no there is no "connection" between Street of dreams and UYI. That song could never have been on UYI. There are to much time, and changes and discontinuity in the band that make these kind of connection reasonable.

That said, i think it sounds like a GNR record, because thats what it is. I have followed the band since 1991 (Yeah i was only a kid!) and i have followed the changes in the band, and i have alway knew that things would be different. The band would follow another path.. everything else is IMPOSIBLE!

Use your Illussion 1 & 2 are some of my favorite albums. If i were to point out a "perfect sound" on any production, this is it! I dont like the term; overproduced.. that is overproduced? I like complex music and i like simple music! It depends on the artist. GNR have made both. CD was complex in many ways, and i kinda like it.. but i would also like to see less complex music from GNR in the future.. and im sure we will hear that.

[jarmo]

Simply put, it's physically impossible for a bands sound to progress when the incarnation of said band ceases to exist.

Tell that to the Pink Floyd fans.  


So in essence you don't think Guns N' Roses' sound has evolved because certain band members quit and you don't like Chinese Democracy because it doesn't sound like Appetite For Destruction....  



/jarmo

[redrose]

At some point you have to or want to make a new kind of sound.
Most of singers or bands aren't staying with their "old" sound, they want to make some new music but in a dif kind of sound.
Keep it real : You don't wear your same clothes every single day, year after year. You want to buy new clothes to fit when the old ones are worn out.

[IKnowWhereIAM]

I 100% understand what people are saying with CD being 'busy' or 'overproduced' (I think that is the wrong term).  It appears to me as though everyone is at a dinner party, and one at a time they head into the kitchen to throw their own ingredients into the pot.  I like CD...but some of my favorite songs on there have intro's that really bother me (Damn, Pitman!!!), and there is a depth to the music that is hard for me to follow at times...I have actually replaced several of the CD tracks in my Ipod with live versions because it just seems to be more to my taste.  That said, I appreciate the artistry - and my opinion doesn't mean shit, anyway.  Axl doesn't make music to make me happy, I don't believe he makes it for the money...he has a vision and makes what he wants.   I hope he makes the art he wants with this new effort...and I also hope I enjoy it at least as much as CD.  If there was a few Breakdown-Estranged caliber songs, all that much better.

[GnR-NOW]

I personally hope the next cd still has the Bucket/Finck/Brain era sound. We supported these guys for a long time too and they deserve to have their efforts rewarded

[Siamese Democracy]

I think the next album will be a blend ofAshba blues influence blended with Bumbles prowess.  It will satisfy all Guns fans musical tastes I believe that. B