"Next Album" rumor / speculation thread *UPDATE AUG 22/2023*

[jarmo]

I guess the situation is a lot more desperate than I thought. 

Not necessarily. It's just that some paint a picture using only black.

Before the Las Vegas run earlier this year, there were people reminding everybody not to get too excited because GN'R apparently cancels a lot of shows. Anything good has to be put down.
And then they are talking about low bars and whatever other rubbish they come up with. Including claiming that there's no real demand for GN'R.

Just because the record companies have made mistakes, I don't think they are idiots. They know releases such as live albums, rarities compilations and remix albums aren't as commercially viable as a new studio album.



AC/DC sold less than 200,000 of their latest album during its first week. With all that promotion and publicity.
Their last album before that sold about two million in its first two weeks. No demand for AC/DC in 2014? Bullshit. 






/jarmo

[damnthehaters]

I also think Pilferk is blowing things way out of proportion.  Were talking about simply releasing a remix album (in some capacity and form) and he thinks its going to break the bank.  The initial question was would you like a remix album or not?  All of a sudden, were talking about IF the record company will support it or not and will it cover costs? 

As I said last night, we got a bit down the rabbit hole on this.  Likely talking about it in greater detail than it really needed, considering it very likely never comes out.

But, such meandering happens where there is not that much to talk about.

Were talking about GNR!  Were not talking about some band called Cement.  Yeah, a remix album won't sell as well as a new album, but it will still sell.  And I understand that GNR nowadays isn't as popular as they were in 1991, but they are still popular in comparison to the majority of other bands.  There IS an audience and want out there.

I wonder.

Yes, we are talking about GNR.  But what is GNR in 2014/15?  Its not exactly a hot property.  I think part of what fueled a lot of the talk about the problems with a remix reflects that reality.  This is not a band playing with a lot of capital, nor goodwill and benefit of the doubt. 

GNR is a band that released an album 6 years ago that didn't exactly set the world on fire.  We may have liked it, but we are far from objective.  And there just ain't that many of us.

So let's make you the label.  Assuming Axl wants to push for a remix album first, you are looking at a band looking to release alternate versions of songs that didn't catch on the first time.  Even if you could make your peace with all that, you are faced with a guy that you have no idea will even promote it.  Dude could go AWOL again for whatever reason.  Is that a great recipe for success, such a project?

pilferk's repeated point about not jeopardizing a future release of new material is a good one.  The reality of the situation is that GNR might be down to their last chance.  If the next album tanks as well, what is their value to the label?

I don't think Chinese tanked.  Best Buy would say that it tanked because they lost out on the deal, but GNR came out golden.  That was just good business on GNRs part with shipping as many units as they could.  I have always thought and still do, those who say Chinese was a big fail, must have been expecting Chinese to be like Appetite.  People need to get real!  GNR putting out an album 15 years after their last album, with new band members, all aging, haven't been in the spotlight for years, and in a day where CD's don't sell as well, was NEVER going to sell like any of those previous albums.  With that said, the album still went #3 in the US and #1 in a bunch of other countries.  How is this tanking?  99% of other bands would die for this.  

So yeah if I'm the label, I know these numbers, and I know that even though it wasn't as successful as Appetite or the Illusions, it was still successful compared to probably most other bands we have contracts with.  Now if you take away all the production costs associated with the making of Chinese, it could have been even more successful.  And as far as I know, Axl isn't running up costs for these albums.  The albums are pretty much done.        

[D-GenerationX]

I don't think Chinese tanked.  Best Buy would say that it tanked because they lost out on the deal, but GNR came out golden.  That was just good business on GNRs part with shipping as many units as they could.  I have always thought and still do, those who say Chinese was a big fail, must have been expecting Chinese to be like Appetite.  People need to get real!  GNR putting out an album 15 years after their last album, with new band members, all aging, haven't been in the spotlight for years, and in a day where CD's don't sell as well, was NEVER going to sell like any of those previous albums.  With that said, the album still went #3 in the US and #1 in a bunch of other countries.  How is this tanking?  99% of other bands would die for this.

I can't just overlook that no one could tell you a song off it, unless they took a shot with the title track.  Nor the fact that no song is ever heard on the radio or anywhere.  When you hear them say GNR is coming up after the break, do you really expect anything off the album?  I just don't see a lot of impact for "the most anticipated album EVER!!!"  Metallica may not have sold like they did in their prime, but people could tell you what the single was.

You points about the band doing great are very valid.  As is your point about the label not exactly cleaning up on it. 

But don't you have to factor that in?  Given that experience, do you see a similar type deal offered in the future?  I do not.  And without that built in guarantee, that next album is pretty much going to have to sink or swim on its own.  That's why I think any and all risk should be minimized.

 

So yeah if I'm the label, I know these numbers, and I know that even though it wasn't as successful as Appetite or the Illusions, it was still successful compared to probably most other bands we have contracts with.  Now if you take away all the production costs associated with the making of Chinese, it could have been even more successful.  And as far as I know, Axl isn't running up costs for these albums.  The albums are pretty much done.        

Agree with all of this.  The money has largely already been spent and the lion's share of the work done.

[pilferk]

Not necessarily. It's just that some paint a picture using only black.

Only the parts concerning the label...then as black as their cold, evil, shriveled hearts.

Seriously, though....you asked a "would you rather", and we sorta ran with it.  I don't think ANY release, of any sort, that actually comes out is "black".  It's absolutely is not!

Before the Las Vegas run earlier this year, there were people reminding everybody not to get too excited because GN'R apparently cancels a lot of shows. Anything good has to be put down.
And then they are talking about low bars and whatever other rubbish they come up with. Including claiming that there's no real demand for GN'R.

I so wish I'd been able to go to Vegas. I was all set to go, room booked, tickets basically bought...and life (meaning work) got in the way.

There's def demand for GnR....but I think the level of demand is based a lot on the product.  The concert blu ray seems to be selling pretty well.  I think that's evidence that there's some demand, for sure.

Just because the record companies have made mistakes, I don't think they are idiots. They know releases such as live albums, rarities compilations and remix albums aren't as commercially viable as a new studio album.

AC/DC sold less than 200,000 of their latest album during its first week. With all that promotion and publicity.
Their last album before that sold about two million in its first two weeks. No demand for AC/DC in 2014? Bullshit. 

/jarmo

See, I agree both parts of that first sentence.  We just have a slight difference of opinion over what influence that has on certain types of releases.  

[ice cream sand pig]

DX I think most people also wouldn't know what Metallica's last single was. My dad used to be a huge fan of Metallica but he didn't know that one recent album (Death Magnetic?) existed until I showed it to him. He said it's just not the same as when he was young and used to listen to Metallica.

[D-GenerationX]

DX I think most people also wouldn't know what Metallica's last single was. My dad used to be a huge fan of Metallica but he didn't know that one recent album (Death Magnetic?) existed until I showed it to him. He said it's just not the same as when he was young and used to listen to Metallica.

Oh, that was just the first band that came to mind.  Substitute any other band, if you like. 

It doesn't change the overall point that no one but us knows any of this material.

[damnthehaters]

I don't think Chinese tanked.  Best Buy would say that it tanked because they lost out on the deal, but GNR came out golden.  That was just good business on GNRs part with shipping as many units as they could.  I have always thought and still do, those who say Chinese was a big fail, must have been expecting Chinese to be like Appetite.  People need to get real!  GNR putting out an album 15 years after their last album, with new band members, all aging, haven't been in the spotlight for years, and in a day where CD's don't sell as well, was NEVER going to sell like any of those previous albums.  With that said, the album still went #3 in the US and #1 in a bunch of other countries.  How is this tanking?  99% of other bands would die for this.

I can't just overlook that no one could tell you a song off it, unless they took a shot with the title track.  Nor the fact that no song is ever heard on the radio or anywhere.  When you hear them say GNR is coming up after the break, do you really expect anything off the album?  I just don't see a lot of impact for "the most anticipated album EVER!!!"  Metallica may not have sold like they did in their prime, but people could tell you what the single was.

You points about the band doing great are very valid.  As is your point about the label not exactly cleaning up on it. 

But don't you have to factor that in?  Given that experience, do you see a similar type deal offered in the future?  I do not.  And without that built in guarantee, that next album is pretty much going to have to sink or swim on its own.  That's why I think any and all risk should be minimized.

 

The media LOVES to make fun of Axl.  They like to make fun of anyone who was on top at one point in time.  Mariah Carrey has been blasted lately for her singing the other night.  Then people who can't think for themselves, follow this.  And we have a lot of these people in this country.  A picture has been painted in this country that Axl is a dick/asshole/joke/reason the band broke up, etc.  The way our country has been brainwashed, if Slash was still in the band and Chinese was exactly the same......you would be hearing songs on the radio.  I believe this 100%.  I think it's a friggen joke.  

But, with that said, there is still a good number of GNR fans out there.  It's like the gay guy who doesn't want to talk about it in public (because it's not cool), but he likes guys.  And when he's home at night or on his own, he's living his life.  Well, there are still millions of GNR fans out there who don't talk about GNR (including radio DJ's who don't play GNR and make fun of them), but then when they are home, they are listening to GNR.        

[ice cream sand pig]

With the bigger selection than ever of music that people have available to choose from nowadays (mostly thanks to the internet), is that really all that surprising? There are many people I run into here at ASU that have no idea who Guns N Roses is, not the old line up, not the new line up, not sweet child o mine, no nothin.

BTW Great post damnthehaters! You've really been on fire lately.

[D-GenerationX]

The way our country has been brainwashed, if Slash was still in the band and Chinese was exactly the same......you would be hearing songs on the radio.  I believe this 100%.  I think it's a friggen joke.

Maybe, maybe not.  But you could be damn sure there would have been better promotion of the work.  If if Axl stormed off in a huff, would Slash follow him off that cliff?

I think that is one of the things that kills this current band.  Only one guy has the influence, and he ain't talking.  If you look at the old band during UYI, much of the promo and glad handing was done by Slash and Duff.  None of the current guys have that sort of clout.  Or is even permitted to speak on it.  Who the hell knows, really.

That might have been better motivation for Axl to take some time to put these guys over and establish them with the public.  They could do the grunt work he never liked anyway.  
  

But, with that said, there is still a good number of GNR fans out there.  It's like the gay guy who doesn't want to talk about it in public (because it's not cool), but he likes guys.  And when he's home at night or on his own, he's living his life.  Well, there are still millions of GNR fans out there who don't talk about GNR (including radio DJ's who don't play GNR and make fun of them), but then when they are home, they are listening to GNR.        

Seems a bit anecdotal.  And obviously literally impossible to prove or disprove.

And which GNR?  Are you contending they are spinning 'Chinese', or playing 'Appetite'?

[D-GenerationX]

With the bigger selection than ever of music that people have available to choose from nowadays (mostly thanks to the internet), is that really all that surprising? There are many people I run into here at ASU that have no idea who Guns N Roses is, not the old line up, not the new line up, not sweet child o mine, no nothin.

And doesn't that bum you out?  And is it a ringing endorsement of their marketing "strategy"?

I totally agree with you that there are more choices out there.  Which is all the more reason you need to make your own breaks, no?  Not sit in your bedroom and hope it all works out on its own, somehow.

[ice cream sand pig]

No, it doesn't bum me out. If I ask one of those people what master of puppets is, most of them will have no idea about that either.

[D-GenerationX]

No, it doesn't bum me out. If I ask one of those people what master of puppets is, most of them will have no idea about that either.

Hahahaha

Man, I am old.  You're bumming out this afternoon, rudy.

[damnthehaters]

The way our country has been brainwashed, if Slash was still in the band and Chinese was exactly the same......you would be hearing songs on the radio.  I believe this 100%.  I think it's a friggen joke.

Maybe, maybe not.  But you could be damn sure there would have been better promotion of the work.  If if Axl stormed off in a huff, would Slash follow him off that cliff?

I think that is one of the things that kills this current band.  Only one guy has the influence, and he ain't talking.  If you look at the old band during UYI, much of the promo and glad handing was done by Slash and Duff.  None of the current guys have that sort of clout.  Or is even permitted to speak on it.  Who the hell knows, really.

That might have been better motivation for Axl to take some time to put these guys over and establish them with the public.  They could do the grunt work he never liked anyway.  
  

But, with that said, there is still a good number of GNR fans out there.  It's like the gay guy who doesn't want to talk about it in public (because it's not cool), but he likes guys.  And when he's home at night or on his own, he's living his life.  Well, there are still millions of GNR fans out there who don't talk about GNR (including radio DJ's who don't play GNR and make fun of them), but then when they are home, they are listening to GNR.        

Seems a bit anecdotal.  And obviously literally impossible to prove or disprove.

And which GNR?  Are you contending they are spinning 'Chinese', or playing 'Appetite'?

Yeah I'm talking about Chinese.  And I believe this based on album sales and concert attendance.  Yes, they aren't playing shows to 50k here in the states, but there are still lots of fans seeing them.  There is still a good fan base with GNR I believe.  Like I said earlier, just because things aren't like they were in 1991, doesn't mean it's not good.  You can't compare the two.   Lots of bands would love to be playing to crowds that GNR are playing to in 2014.    

[jarmo]

Only the parts concerning the label...then as black as their cold, evil, shriveled hearts.

Yeah, wasn't necessarily aimed at you. Just certain fans.

I have no sympathy for the record companies. I've seen what they've done to artists. I wish it was more about the art than the dollar. At some point that's gotta be the case, you can't keep selling less and less each year and not go "what needs to change?" at some point...

There's def demand for GnR....but I think the level of demand is based a lot on the product.  The concert blu ray seems to be selling pretty well.  I think that's evidence that there's some demand, for sure.

Of course there is.

The naysayers are repeating that mantra though. There's no demand for this or that and then complain about the lack of products.
They go on and on about the lack of demand, yet have no understanding for a band touring which is how artists compensate for the lack of record sales. Touring is bad. Ironic.

I don't think Chinese tanked.  

I agree. Some of the ones repeating this have some kind of agenda to push. They claim it wasn't a hit because Axl didn't do what they wanted him to.

Yet, where's their proof that heavy promotion equals more sales? Because there's no guarantee.
What rock band has had more publicity recently than they probably wanted? AC/DC. Still sold way less than their 2008 album. Is it simply because of the promotion? Of course not.

Lots of bands would love to be playing to crowds that GNR are playing to in 2014.    

True. And have the sales of Chinese Democracy....




/jarmo

[ice cream sand pig]

No, it doesn't bum me out. If I ask one of those people what master of puppets is, most of them will have no idea about that either.

Hahahaha

Man, I am old.  You're bumming out this afternoon, rudy.

I feel the same way man (old)! I'm still in my twenties and I feel like I've already lived a thousand years. My eight year old niece has a cell phone and she text messages her friends and family with it all the time. It's little things like that which help me remember the fact that my own death is getting closer and closer every day!

I'm going somewhere that has no internet connection for winter break and won't be back for a month so I won't be able to post for a while. I hope everyone enjoys their holidays! The forums sure are an interesting experience, I'll definitely miss all of you while I'm gone!

 

[D-GenerationX]

I'm going somewhere that has no internet connection for winter break and won't be back for a month so I won't be able to post for a while. I hope everyone enjoys their holidays! The forums sure are an interesting experience, I'll definitely miss all of you while I'm gone!

Oh, that sucks.  Y'all come back now, hear?

And a month?  Wow.  I'd be climbing the walls after 3 hours.

[EmilyGNR]

The way our country has been brainwashed, if Slash was still in the band and Chinese was exactly the same......you would be hearing songs on the radio.  I believe this 100%.  I think it's a friggen joke.

Maybe, maybe not.  But you could be damn sure there would have been better promotion of the work.  If if Axl stormed off in a huff, would Slash follow him off that cliff?

I think that is one of the things that kills this current band.  Only one guy has the influence, and he ain't talking.  If you look at the old band during UYI, much of the promo and glad handing was done by Slash and Duff.  None of the current guys have that sort of clout.  Or is even permitted to speak on it.  Who the hell knows, really.

That might have been better motivation for Axl to take some time to put these guys over and establish them with the public.  They could do the grunt work he never liked anyway.  
  

But, with that said, there is still a good number of GNR fans out there.  It's like the gay guy who doesn't want to talk about it in public (because it's not cool), but he likes guys.  And when he's home at night or on his own, he's living his life.  Well, there are still millions of GNR fans out there who don't talk about GNR (including radio DJ's who don't play GNR and make fun of them), but then when they are home, they are listening to GNR.        

Seems a bit anecdotal.  And obviously literally impossible to prove or disprove.

And which GNR?  Are you contending they are spinning 'Chinese', or playing 'Appetite'?

Yeah I'm talking about Chinese.  And I believe this based on album sales and concert attendance.  Yes, they aren't playing shows to 50k here in the states, but there are still lots of fans seeing them.  There is still a good fan base with GNR I believe.  Like I said earlier, just because things aren't like they were in 1991, doesn't mean it's not good.  You can't compare the two.   Lots of bands would love to be playing to crowds that GNR are playing to in 2014.    

Very true, you make great points.

[EmilyGNR]

I'm saying that if I was the record company and saw that, I'd be thinking "nobody wants this thing".
And that's pretty sad.

Or, hopefully they'll see there's an opportunity to put out Chinese Democracy the way it was supposed to be released with proper artwork and a bonus disc.




/jarmo

Would love an opportunity to own the alternate covers as well as the correct booklet.

I place this album very high, right up there among my Zepplin, Stones and Floyd classic and timeless albums.

[EmilyGNR]

No, it doesn't bum me out. If I ask one of those people what master of puppets is, most of them will have no idea about that either.

Hahahaha

Man, I am old.  You're bumming out this afternoon, rudy.

I feel the same way man (old)! I'm still in my twenties and I feel like I've already lived a thousand years. My eight year old niece has a cell phone and she text messages her friends and family with it all the time. It's little things like that which help me remember the fact that my own death is getting closer and closer every day!

I'm going somewhere that has no internet connection for winter break and won't be back for a month so I won't be able to post for a while. I hope everyone enjoys their holidays! The forums sure are an interesting experience, I'll definitely miss all of you while I'm gone!

 

You will be missed here over the holidays  Rudy 

[TheBaconman]

I guess the situation is a lot more desperate than I thought. 

Not necessarily. It's just that some paint a picture using only black.

Before the Las Vegas run earlier this year, there were people reminding everybody not to get too excited because GN'R apparently cancels a lot of shows. Anything good has to be put down.
And then they are talking about low bars and whatever other rubbish they come up with. Including claiming that there's no real demand for GN'R.

Just because the record companies have made mistakes, I don't think they are idiots. They know releases such as live albums, rarities compilations and remix albums aren't as commercially viable as a new studio album.



AC/DC sold less than 200,000 of their latest album during its first week. With all that promotion and publicity.
Their last album before that sold about two million in its first two weeks. No demand for AC/DC in 2014? Bullshit. 






/jarmo

You could argue over what ac/dc hardcore fan base..

  When they sold that 1.5mil they had a nice hit single on the radio.  They had a great promotional campaign with Walmart.  Toured like mother fuckers and hadn't had a album out in years.....

When they didn't do all of the above the album only sells to hardcore fans, not casual.

Same will happen to the next guns album, without them doing all the above.  Which isn't a bad thing as guns has a great hard core fan base world wide