"Next Album" rumor / speculation thread *UPDATE AUG 22/2023*

[D-GenerationX]

I would be willing to bet a vast amount of money that if Axl Rose brought a finished Guns N' Roses album to the label, they would put it out yesterday.

It's likely the details that surround the release that will keep the next album in limbo forever. 

And I'd concur.

But we have a persistent segment of the fanbase under the impression the label is actively invested in NOT putting anything out.  Why do they think that?  Beats the shit out of me.

[Ali]

This would be a cool way to release the next album -

http://www.nme.com/news/beyonce/74396

Imagine waking up and seeing GN'R releases surprise album!

With all the finished material Axl supposedly has, it's maddening to know that they could do this at literally any point.......but don't.

They could only pull a stunt like that if, and only if, the label was on board with it.

If Axl pitched it, why turn it down?  Is...well, whatever the hell you'd call what's going on now, is that better?

Because dropping an album with no notice and no promotion may not be the best way to maximize sales for most artists not named Beyonce.  The record company would have a vested interest, obviously, in maximizing their revenue.

Ali

[sofine11]

Thing is, the labels can't be as picky about what they put out in, say, 99-00 when they could have a new producer come in and tell Axl that he needs to make the songs sound better, re-record some stuff, etc. 

The labels are hurting, and in 2014, I think it's a bit unrealistic to think that if someone as high profile as Axl Rose came to the label with a finished Guns N' Roses album that he wants out ASAP that they'd do anything but do everything in their power to make that release a reality and reap the rewards, whatever they may be.

However, after all the mud slinging Axl did in the Billboard interview after Chinese Democracy under-performed, we have no idea what demands and assurances he may be requesting behind scenes that can, again, keep this next album in limbo for God knows how long.

[Ali]

Thing is, the labels can't be as picky about what they put out in, say, 99-00 when they could have a new producer come in and tell Axl that he needs to make the songs sound better, re-record some stuff, etc. 

The labels are hurting, and in 2014, I think it's a bit unrealistic to think that if someone as high profile as Axl Rose came to the label with a finished Guns N' Roses album that he wants out ASAP that they'd do anything but do everything in their power to make that release a reality and reap the rewards, whatever they may be.

However, after all the mud slinging Axl did in the Billboard interview after Chinese Democracy under-performed, we have no idea what demands and assurances he may be requesting behind scenes that can, again, keep this next album in limbo for God knows how long.

Wanting an album out ASAP and wanting an album out with no notice and no promotion are not the same thing.

Ali

[sofine11]

Thing is, the labels can't be as picky about what they put out in, say, 99-00 when they could have a new producer come in and tell Axl that he needs to make the songs sound better, re-record some stuff, etc. 

The labels are hurting, and in 2014, I think it's a bit unrealistic to think that if someone as high profile as Axl Rose came to the label with a finished Guns N' Roses album that he wants out ASAP that they'd do anything but do everything in their power to make that release a reality and reap the rewards, whatever they may be.

However, after all the mud slinging Axl did in the Billboard interview after Chinese Democracy under-performed, we have no idea what demands and assurances he may be requesting behind scenes that can, again, keep this next album in limbo for God knows how long.

Wanting an album out ASAP and wanting an album out with no notice and no promotion are not the same thing.

Ali

Right, and above I'm not even talking about a "surprise" release.  Just a release within a reasonable amount of time after handing said album over to the label.

[Ali]

Thing is, the labels can't be as picky about what they put out in, say, 99-00 when they could have a new producer come in and tell Axl that he needs to make the songs sound better, re-record some stuff, etc. 

The labels are hurting, and in 2014, I think it's a bit unrealistic to think that if someone as high profile as Axl Rose came to the label with a finished Guns N' Roses album that he wants out ASAP that they'd do anything but do everything in their power to make that release a reality and reap the rewards, whatever they may be.

However, after all the mud slinging Axl did in the Billboard interview after Chinese Democracy under-performed, we have no idea what demands and assurances he may be requesting behind scenes that can, again, keep this next album in limbo for God knows how long.

Wanting an album out ASAP and wanting an album out with no notice and no promotion are not the same thing.

Ali

Right, and above I'm not even talking about a "surprise" release.  Just a release within a reasonable amount of time after handing said album over to the label.

Sure, that's understandable.

But, this sidebar started as why couldn't GN'R do want Beyonce did.  Clearly, what she did is the exception, not the rule.  IMO, not much more needs to be said beyond that and the fact the label would have to be on board with it.

Ali

[damnthehaters]

Thing is, the labels can't be as picky about what they put out in, say, 99-00 when they could have a new producer come in and tell Axl that he needs to make the songs sound better, re-record some stuff, etc. 

The labels are hurting, and in 2014, I think it's a bit unrealistic to think that if someone as high profile as Axl Rose came to the label with a finished Guns N' Roses album that he wants out ASAP that they'd do anything but do everything in their power to make that release a reality and reap the rewards, whatever they may be.

However, after all the mud slinging Axl did in the Billboard interview after Chinese Democracy under-performed, we have no idea what demands and assurances he may be requesting behind scenes that can, again, keep this next album in limbo for God knows how long.

Wanting an album out ASAP and wanting an album out with no notice and no promotion are not the same thing.

Ali

Right, and above I'm not even talking about a "surprise" release.  Just a release within a reasonable amount of time after handing said album over to the label.

Sure, that's understandable.

But, this sidebar started as why couldn't GN'R do want Beyonce did.  Clearly, what she did is the exception, not the rule.  IMO, not much more needs to be said beyond that and the fact the label would have to be on board with it.

Ali

Ali, 

Nobody said WHY can't GNR do a surprise release, they said that it would be cool IF they did something like that.   

[Ali]

Thing is, the labels can't be as picky about what they put out in, say, 99-00 when they could have a new producer come in and tell Axl that he needs to make the songs sound better, re-record some stuff, etc. 

The labels are hurting, and in 2014, I think it's a bit unrealistic to think that if someone as high profile as Axl Rose came to the label with a finished Guns N' Roses album that he wants out ASAP that they'd do anything but do everything in their power to make that release a reality and reap the rewards, whatever they may be.

However, after all the mud slinging Axl did in the Billboard interview after Chinese Democracy under-performed, we have no idea what demands and assurances he may be requesting behind scenes that can, again, keep this next album in limbo for God knows how long.

Wanting an album out ASAP and wanting an album out with no notice and no promotion are not the same thing.

Ali

Right, and above I'm not even talking about a "surprise" release.  Just a release within a reasonable amount of time after handing said album over to the label.

Sure, that's understandable.

But, this sidebar started as why couldn't GN'R do want Beyonce did.  Clearly, what she did is the exception, not the rule.  IMO, not much more needs to be said beyond that and the fact the label would have to be on board with it.

Ali

Ali, 

Nobody said WHY can't GNR do a surprise release, they said that it would be cool IF they did something like that.   

Not exactly true, IMO.  D-GenX said, "If Axl pitched it, why turn it down?  Is...well, whatever the hell you'd call what's going on now, is that better?".

I think there is an obvious reason in the why turn it down.

Ali

[pilferk]

And I'd concur.

But we have a persistent segment of the fanbase under the impression the label is actively invested in NOT putting anything out.  Why do they think that?  Beats the shit out of me.

Maybe because some of us know the recording industry and how it works. At least "a bit".

And that a contract option for an album is worth considerable money, both real and projected (which, to a corporation, is tantamount to the same thing)

As is a slot in a limited release schedule.

And the costs to market, press, and distribute an album are relatively considerable...on top of the sunk costs already incurred with advances, studio time, etc.

If you're saying that some people think the label has a vendetta against GnR...that's different.  I'm not sure there's a vindictive motive behind what the label might be doing..though it might appear that way to the artist (and be frustrating as hell, too).

If you're saying that some people see clear business reasons why a huge monolithic corporate entity would not want to release a specific album by a specific artist that they did not think would recoup their sunk costs and/or maximize their profit margins on sed option/release slot...then right you are.

Because there are.

And if you think that doesn't happen, all you have to do is look back at bands like Green Day and artists like Fiona Apple.  Both of them were multi-platinum selling acts that had full albums of material ready to go...that were rejected/refused by their current labels.

Now is when someone says "Well, something is better than nothing"...and, at some point, that might be true.  At some point, the label might cut bait and move on.  But, likely they do that by terminating the contract (either via proving contract breech, or via negotiating with the artist) and either seeking to recoup their losses through another avenue or just writing them down.  And they don't do that until they have gone down every possible avenue to try to maximize their return....which might mean trying to sweat the artist out to get something the label thinks might sell better, be more marketable, or to get the artist to cede "something" (like their share of pub rights to past material).

We've heard "enough" from those close to the band to know that there are obvious issues (and you can bet your bottom dollar that's what they're related to...dollars) between Uni and GnR. 

You REALLY don't think Uni would refuse release if they didn't think the material was going to sell like gangbusters.  Not a nice pop and then niche sales like CD...but something that could potentially blow up and make them gobs of money?  On what is reportedly their last new material album option? REALLY? No chance of that?

[pilferk]

Thing is, the labels can't be as picky about what they put out in, say, 99-00 when they could have a new producer come in and tell Axl that he needs to make the songs sound better, re-record some stuff, etc. 

Au contraire...they sure can.  And they are.  Because they still have significant costs associated with these artists, they are still looking to maximize profits based on resources utilized, and they still have a finite number of release slots in their calender.

They move and shuffle stuff all the time based on being "picky". 

The labels are hurting, and in 2014, I think it's a bit unrealistic to think that if someone as high profile as Axl Rose came to the label with a finished Guns N' Roses album that he wants out ASAP that they'd do anything but do everything in their power to make that release a reality and reap the rewards, whatever they may be.

The labels are hurting because of the way they choose to do business, and the way the industry "works".  Not because they don't have enough high profile artists willing to record or release material.  They're making less because people are buying less.  No matter who is releasing the material.

No, I'm not laying the blame at the feet of piracy...at least not 100%.  But the facts are the facts, and the sales figures don't lie.  Axl releasing material isn't going to suddenly get coin to pour into the coffers more quickly than, say, it does for Katy Perry, or Beyonce, or Justin Timberlake.

And the thing about the labels is...it's not about just making money.  It's about making the most money they can in relation to the costs they've incurred for an artist.  They are not just going to release "anything", ESPECIALLY considering CD's modest sales.  They want to go "big".  The only way they release "anything" is if they've decided they want to cut bait with GnR, lick their wounds, and go home.  I'd say the chances of that are slim....there's too much meat on the bone, at this point, for that to be their "best" (meaning most profitable) option.

However, after all the mud slinging Axl did in the Billboard interview after Chinese Democracy under-performed, we have no idea what demands and assurances he may be requesting behind scenes that can, again, keep this next album in limbo for God knows how long.

Maybe.

Just as likely the label wants assurances of their own (either a gaurentee related to returning posted royalties, promotional particiaption, or a hundred other things) since they have the largest sunk costs in the process.

[D-GenerationX]

Just as likely the label wants assurances of their own (either a gaurentee related to returning posted royalties, promotional particiaption, or a hundred other things) since they have the largest sunk costs in the process.

The craziest thing about this is that Axl would likely point to these "outrageous demands" as a reason to not get his ass in gear.  And his apologists would eat that right up and give him e-high fives over it.

But think about it.  What other artist would you have to contractually spell out that he needs to not go MIA during the time needed to promote their own work?  With other artists, this is a given.

[pilferk]

The craziest thing about this is that Axl would likely point to these "outrageous demands" as a reason to not get his ass in gear.  And his apologists would eat that right up and give him e-high fives over it.

But think about it.  What other artist would you have to contractually spell out that he needs to not go MIA during the time needed to promote their own work?  With other artists, this is a given.

They have a right to ask.

He has a right to refuse.

Just like the reverse is true.

That's business.  If it's not in the original contract details...it's not there, and is to either be negotiated, or not. Again, for both sides.

I don't begrudge either side for engaging in it to protect their perceived interests.  And that's what negotiating is:

Axl: I want such and such to be the promotional budget, I want such and such number of national adline space, preferably in industry or demo appropriate space, and I want such and such in radio and TV spots, radio in drive time, TV in cable demo appropriate space.

Label Rep: No, but we want you to make yourself available for live interviews and other live promotional opportunities.

Axl: Well, I'll do such and such number of press interviews, but they all have to be within such and such radius of such and such, or in a top 5 media market IF you agree to my terms on promotional budgets.


If that isn't happening, it's because both sides can't find common ground.  Which is also fine..and part of business.  Eventually one party or the other will get fed up enough that they're willing to cede ANYTHING in order to get away from the other party.  It's a game of chicken, and not the first one (look back at Prince and Def Leppard with their labels).

Til then, Cool Hand Luke presides....

[sofine11]

I get that that's business, and Axl has the right to refuse whatever assurances they're asking of him, and vice versa.  But, what's left is a rather tangled impasse.  There's a point where all of this "nobility" turns into years worth of self-serving masturbation.

And who suffers from the lack of new music?  Well, the fans.  We're left bickering in forums about Axl's rights, instead of discussing new music and enjoying the fruits of it. 

If that's not the raw end of the stick, I don't know what is.

[pilferk]

I get that that's business, and Axl has the right to refuse whatever assurances they're asking of him, and vice versa.  But, what's left is a rather tangled impasse.  There's a point where all of this "nobility" turns into years worth of self-serving masturbation.

And who suffers from the lack of new music?  Well, the fans.  We're left bickering in forums about Axl's rights, instead of discussing new music and enjoying the fruits of it. 

Yup, as I've said. For both sides.

But what are the other options?

 You have a monolithic corporation who is going to do anything it can to make sure it maximizes it's profit...a corporation who (and you can all disagree) makes it's money exploiting others artistic product in every way imaginable that will garner a buck.  And they are very, very good at it, and very very patient when they have to be (ie: they play a LOT of chicken).

You have a stubborn, eccentric artist who has more than enough money to be comfortable, who doesn't give two fucks about the label's profit...because he doesn't see much of a future relationship/contract with them, and who is making what he sees as (and you can all disagree) a principled stand to protect his artistic product, and himself from exploitation.  In addition, I really think HE thinks he's protecting the fans, too...from being exploited by the industry/label, to some extent.

Do you think either is going to blink any time soon?

Depressing and regrettable...I grant you.  But....unfortunately it looks to be truth.

Which is why I choose not to "suffer".  I've got an abundance of material that I listen to all the time. I catch a show, usually, when they come to town or are near by. I enjoy what I've got, would be ecstatic for more, but don't really expect it.   This seemingly pisses D-GenerationX (and probably the Road Dogg Jessie James) off to no end.

[sofine11]

In the end, I just really struggle to justify Axl having another complete album (one that he originally wanted released a year after Chinese, supported by continued touring) that for, whatever the reason, has been collecting dust for over five years now.

Songs like the The General, Atlas Shrugged, Soul Monster, Seven, etc. all of which have been described as epic and amazing, may never be heard....and, at the end of the day, we have no clue as to why.

Again, I just struggle to understand why these songs just CANNOT find a way to be released.  Essentially, that's where my frustration comes from.

And I could very well be incorrect, again they don't talk to us, so we don't know, but this leads one to believe Axl is holding out for something that the label either will not or cannot provide.  Why else are they stone-walling the fans on this release?

[D-GenerationX]

Which is why I choose not to "suffer".  I've got an abundance of material that I listen to all the time. I catch a show, usually, when they come to town or are near by. I enjoy what I've got, would be ecstatic for more, but don't really expect it.   This seemingly pisses D-GenerationX (and probably the Road Dogg Jessie James) off to no end.

I just don't understand this mindset.  Jarmo gives me this same routine.  Expect nothing, every blue moon he throws you some crumbs, be happy with what you get.

The main talking point of this crowd seems to be that anyone who dares to ask if this seems crazy to anyone else, is that WE are actually the crazy people.  We are staying up nights, pacing the room and climbing the walls, obsessing over Axl Rose and Guns N' Roses, 24/7/365.  We should "live our lives" and "stop worrying about what we are owed, which is nothing."

This talking point is as lazy and inaccurate as it is misguided, in my opinion.  This is a band I like.  That we all like, I would assume.  Wanting to see them run a competent operation and wanting to them put out products is not asking for the moon and the stars.  Its also the point of fandom of a band.  And the answer to "can you believe we might go another 10 years without an album?" should NEVER be answered with "hey, it could be 12, so don't bitch."

[pilferk]

In the end, I just really struggle to justify Axl having another complete album (one that he originally wanted released a year after Chinese, supported by continued touring) that for, whatever the reason, has been collecting dust for over five years now.

Songs like the The General, Atlas Shrugged, Soul Monster, Seven, etc. all of which have been described as epic and amazing, may never be heard....and, at the end of the day, we have no clue as to why.

Again, I just struggle to understand why these songs just CANNOT find a way to be released.  Essentially, that's where my frustration comes from.

I just spelled it out for you.

Now...you don't have to like the reasoning (and I mean..you can be frustrated by it and think you're getting shafted by both sides)...but my guess is that's it in a nutshell.

You have 2 sides, who want vastly different things, and there's really no impetus for either to move.  The label doesn't seen big dollar signs.  Axl doesn't see a point to capitulate to the label for another go at what he sees as their failings for CD.

I can see the frustration, for sure.  But that's just reality....

[sofine11]

In the end, I just really struggle to justify Axl having another complete album (one that he originally wanted released a year after Chinese, supported by continued touring) that for, whatever the reason, has been collecting dust for over five years now.

Songs like the The General, Atlas Shrugged, Soul Monster, Seven, etc. all of which have been described as epic and amazing, may never be heard....and, at the end of the day, we have no clue as to why.

Again, I just struggle to understand why these songs just CANNOT find a way to be released.  Essentially, that's where my frustration comes from.

I just spelled it out for you.

Now...you don't have to like the reasoning (and I mean..you can be frustrated by it and think you're getting shafted by both sides)...but my guess is that's it in a nutshell.

You have 2 sides, who want vastly different things, and there's really no impetus for either to move.  The label doesn't seen big dollar signs.  Axl doesn't see a point to capitulate to the label for another go at what he sees as their failings for CD.

I can see the frustration, for sure.  But that's just reality....

Right, and I understand that's the issue as far as an impasse. 

I guess I just wish one side would give a bit, be it Axl or the label.  The road to Chinese Democracy was so long and needlessly lengthened at every turn.  Does the next release really need to see the same drama?

"Those who are ignorant of history are doomed to repeat it."

One of the two sides obviously has never heard that saying.

[D-GenerationX]

I just spelled it out for you.

Now...you don't have to like the reasoning (and I mean..you can be frustrated by it and think you're getting shafted by both sides)...but my guess is that's it in a nutshell.

You have 2 sides, who want vastly different things, and there's really no impetus for either to move.  The label doesn't seen big dollar signs.  Axl doesn't see a point to capitulate to the label for another go at what he sees as their failings for CD.

I can see the frustration, for sure.  But that's just reality....

Oh, I understand the particulars and the motivations involved.

What I do not understand is how some fans are so beaten down they have stopped asking why things have to be so fucked up.  We don't ask it thinking we have the answers or that we can change it.  We are just amazed at fellow fans who have stopped asking such things, but even more so, how they find it so noble.  They take this perverse pride in never expecting anything.  Its weird.

[pilferk]

I just don't understand this mindset.  Jarmo gives me this same routine.  Expect nothing, every blue moon he throws you some crumbs, be happy with what you get.

I know you don't.  But I can't explain it any better to you.

I have other interests, other stuff going on. I've got 3 amazing kids, a stupendous wife, a good job....and lots of other stuff to sweat and worry over that I can effect.  There was a time, 10 years or so ago, pre CD, where I was amongst those clamoring  and worrying and pushing for more.  But now? Not so much.  I like CD.  My car changer is full of GnR most of the time (not this time of year....too much Xmas stuff).   I'm "content" with what I've got.

Why should I worry about a new album?  Why should I expect one?
 
I'd love to have one. I WANT one.   Just like I love the tours when they come around and am looking forward to another.  Still a great show.  But just because I want it is no reason to EXPECT it.

See...I have zero control over this.  And I have zero influence over Axl (as it should be, IMHO).  So...why sweat it?  Getting MORE music isn't going to change my life one iota.  

Discussing it is fun, to some extent, though.

The main talking point of this crowd seems to be that anyone who dares to ask if this seems crazy to anyone else, is that WE are actually the crazy people.  We are staying up nights, pacing the room and climbing the walls, obsessing over Axl Rose and Guns N' Roses, 24/7/365.  We should "live our lives" and "stop worrying about what we are owed, which is nothing."

I don't speak for any crowd.  Just me.

And I won't speak to anyone else's perceptions/opinions but mine.  My explanation, above, isn't meant to be projected to any one else but ME.

But, generally, I agree with the last part.  "Stop worrying, live your life, be happy if we get something, and Axl owes you nothing".  Because it's true.  How is it not?

This talking point is as lazy and inaccurate as it is misguided, in my opinion.  This is a band I like.  That we all like, I would assume.  Wanting to see them run a competent operation and wanting to them put out products is not asking for the moon and the stars.  Its also the point of fandom of a band.  And the answer to "can you believe we might go another 10 years without an album?" should NEVER be answered with "hey, it could be 12, so don't bitch."

It's not lazy.  It's how many of us feel. You don't agree.

You dismiss it as lazy and inaccurate because it's an easy way to dismiss a contrary opinion, without substance to refute it.  I see where you're coming from...I just don't share your opinion.  I don't dismiss it as lazy or inaccurate (or a catastrophic waste of time and energy) because THAT would be lazy, and inaccurate.  Instead, I choose to point out specific points to address....which is hardly lazy.

Wants and expectations, to me, are vastly different.  I WANT a million bucks to land on my doorstep.  I don't expect that to happen any time soon.

And yes, that's hyperbole.  And it's not exactly the same thing.  But it's somewhat apt, here.  There seems to be expectations being formed  (new music) based on what you want and, really, nothing else concrete.  I'll grant you, there have been rumblings from Axl and the band, in printed/interview format, talking about potential new material release..but nothing ever concrete.  No release dates.  Nothing "officially official" from the band, or the label.  No reason to form an expectation regarding actual release of that material (or any other).

You have not paid for an album of new material, right? No preorder?  You've given Axl no money for that album?  You're not funding it?  I can say, for sure, I have not.

So I feel I am literally owed nothing.  The only entity Axl owes anything to is the label, according to the contractual terms laid out there.  And that's interesting to dissect and speculate about....but not, ultimately, my responsibility to ensure (or expect).

So, if you're (global you, here) owed nothing, and your expectation is for "something"...I have a hard time merging those juxtaposing "things" in my headspace.   You don't..which is fine, but it's where we are always going to part company.

I will be content in the material I have, wanting, but not expecting more.  That's just me...