AFD 25th Anniversary topic and possible re-release?

[jarmo]

Wow... You're quite a condescending individual, aren't you?

Not really.

Are you easily upset?

All I'm saying is that whenever non diehards go and see GNR and hear old songs, it promotes to some degree the old band. It doesn't push for these fans to care about the future of GNR, but it rather just makes them nostalgic for what has been. Whether that's good or bad, i don't know. It certainly has proven to be financially lucrative. But is it In line with the goal of pushing forward when most of your behavior is repeating the past?

There's your agenda.

It seems like you want it to be like that. You want to think it promotes the old band when in reality it doesn't.

Was this an issue in 1992 without Izzy and Steven in the band? Every time they played Sweet Child O' Mine they were promoting the old(er) band?

Of course not!



Are you saying the Rolling Stones are promoting the 1960s era of said band when they play songs recorded back then?

But, my main point wasnt so much criticizing playing old songs as much as it about arguing that 72 minutes of music in 10 years is not the strongest effort in promoting GNR as a currently relevant band, musically rather than nostagalically. All I'm saying is that the best way to promote the new band is to release and perform more music written by the new band rather than the legacy of he new band being an overqualified cover band. That's all

They've toured around the globe since December 2009.

Who does that promote? GN'R today!

Has nothing to do with the old band. You're just trying to use the band's amazing live shows and twist it into being something negative.



/jarmo

[Ali]

Perhaps Axl's desire to move on from who he used to play with is separate from what he used to play with them.

A very good point that seems to be always ignored.

Ali

[Dok]

Jarmo, not everybody has an "agenda". Sometimes it's just thinking about this and that and coming up with valid questions. People do such things and especially on message boards and sometimes it's really just that. Excanging thoughts and ideas.

Axl will always have to let himself and the new players be compared to the old, 'nostalgic', version of GNR with Slash and Duff - no matter how much new music he will release. It will always have to compete. And so will the live shows. And I think he knows this. The fact that he is giving one interview per year, releases no videos and/or DVD's and not even professional group photos does not necessarily help in the way of promoting the new band. Although it can be viewed as pretty 'rock n'roll' to go against standards of what everyone else does. If that's smart? I don't know. I guess as long as you can afford it, it's something you can do.

In 1992 with Izzy and Steven it was no issue because the hard core of the group, as understood by the broad public, was Axl, Slash and Duff. They called the shots and those where the faces people had in mind when thinking of GNR. They could've added as many musicians as they liked (which they actually did) and nobody would care too much because people had the impression that those three guys where the essential Guns N' Roses. Same goes for the Stones...Jagger, Richards and Watts have always been there (with Jagger and Richards calling most of the shots) and are still to this day. Hell, even if they have a 'new' bass player for 20 years by now and nobody knows his name, nobody is asking the bands integrity because the "essential Stones" are still there. I mean...ask any guy on the street. No one will be able to come up with any name of any member playing in GNR right now, not even Dizzy Reed, beside Axl. Good thing? Maybe not. But are there ways to promote the news band with more than playing live? Maybe yes.

[bicycle handgrenade]

GNR would only be in competition with old GNR if old GNR still existed. It does not. People can either choose to go and enjoy GNR or they can choose to stay home. Plenty of people choose to attend and have a good time. The closest thing to "competition" would perhaps be the touring acts of former members, but GNR is more successful than all of the former members combined. The classic era was a great time, but nothing lasts forever. People come and go. It's part of being in a band.

Nobody was complaining when old GNR would play songs that existed before the members you mentioned had joined the band. Early GNR songs as well as repurposed Hollywood Rose songs were still played once those people joined, even though they had not been around for their creation.

Axl and Izzy founded GNR and together they wrote the vast majority of the songs. I see no reason for an Axl led GNR to not play any material from any era he was involved with (which happens to be the entire history of the band). Izzy doesn't seem much interested in the limelight or touring on a regular basis, but he still pops up from time to time and has clearly given his stamp of approval in regards to his childhood friend continuing the band they started together.

[Dok]

GNR would only be in competition with old GNR if old GNR still existed.

No. The "old-GNR" band set a certain par that other incarnations of the same band have to compete with. You can't argue with that. It's like a sports-team. Everyone is comparing the new Dream Team (US-basketball Olympic team) with the the 1992 version of the same team with the same name. Undoubtely the 1992 Dream Team has set a par that every other team with the same name will be compared with. That's not necessarily a bad thing. It's just the way people think. This has nothing to do with GNR having to compete against other bands (including bands of ex-bandmembers) but competing against the standard set by themselves.

I know that Axl and Izzy founded GNR but...and I already mentioned that: It's not what the public has a great interest in because most non-die hard fans refer to Axl, Slash and Duff as being the defining/most important (ex-)bandmembers.

[jarmo]

People "complaining" about the band not promoting themselves...

The band tours around the world playing in front of thousands of people each night.

So what do people "complain" about, or let's say comment on, next?

That the band is promoting the old band!


You can say it's not an agenda, or whatever you wanna call it.

I find it somewhat amusing that certain people need to twist everything. You have to find something bad in everything.


The band has worked hard to get where they are. The recent tours have been successful and what do you focus on? The old band.

WTF.





/jarmo

[Dok]

People "complaining" about the band not promoting themselves...

The band tours around the world playing in front of thousands of people each night.

So what do people "complain" about, or let's say comment on, next?

That the band is promoting the old band!


You can say it's not an agenda, or whatever you wanna call it.

I find it somewhat amusing that certain people need to twist everything. You have to find something bad in everything.


The band has worked hard to get where they are. The recent tours have been successful and what do you focus on? The old band.

WTF.





/jarmo

You're right, GNR have promoted themselves by playing a successful tour all over the world. No need to argue about that. And correct me if I'm wrong, but no one said that by doing that, GNR is promoting the old version of the band. What was being thrown around in the last couple of posts was the question what has been done and could be done in order to promote the new guys in the band a little better because they will always be compared to the players who where in the band before 1994. Taking some photos of the new guys and posting them on a fansite does the job for the fan who comes here even if GNR is doing nothing over a couple of years. It will certainly not talk to everyone else not being able/willing/interested/curious enough to find out about the new guys. And take it for what it is: That might be the majority of people coming to the shows who have the old band in mind and go to the show to see Axl Rose.

That's also not about "twisting" reality or "whining" or "complaining". It's called "common sense".

[JAEBALL]

"That might be the majority of people coming to the shows who have the old band in mind and go to the show to see Axl Rose"


DOK, i agree 100 percent

[jarmo]

You're right, GNR have promoted themselves by playing a successful tour all over the world. No need to argue about that. And correct me if I'm wrong, but no one said that by doing that, GNR is promoting the old version of the band.

Looks like someone did:

Axl supposedly has no interest in promoting the old band, and yet, has been touring for the last ten years with concerts whose setlists are composed primarily of songs written by the older bands.

/jarmo

[peter7411226]

I love how certain people complain about threads going off topic yet when they do it it's ok. Let's celebrate the 25th anniversary of one of the most infuential albums of all time. On a personal level this album made me want to become a musician. The crunching guitars, the attitude and the honest lyrics made them stand out from everything else that was out there. Unlike other posers these 5 guys were the real deal. 5 bad asses who created one of the greatest albums of all time. Only these five guys who shared all of these experiences together could've made this album. Thats what makes it honest. Thats what makes it great.

[AxlHBK]

You're right, GNR have promoted themselves by playing a successful tour all over the world. No need to argue about that. And correct me if I'm wrong, but no one said that by doing that, GNR is promoting the old version of the band.

Looks like someone did:

Axl supposedly has no interest in promoting the old band, and yet, has been touring for the last ten years with concerts whose setlists are composed primarily of songs written by the older bands.

/jarmo

Maybe what I meant was that even if playing Old material doesn't promote the old band, I'm not sure it's the best way to promote the fact that GNR is still an active band (other than a nostalgic touring act... Ala journey or motley crues or poisons, or kiss's or rolling stones successful tours). It's not twisting the tours to be anything negative, as i went to all 3 ny shows recently and had a fucking blast each night. It's more of thoughts on future directions to promote GNR today as a relevant songwriting based (as opposed to just performance based) band. I think the larger public that doesnt know any better (the laymans fan) sees GNR today as just Axl and hired guns performing their greatest hits. If that was true, there is nothing wrong with that, as that has value in it's own right, because it's really fun to experience live. But, we as the diehard fans know better, and in order to demonstrate this to the larger public, releasing more than one album in 10 years would go a long way in that effort.

But, this is only written assuming Axls main goal is to promote this version of the band as a viable songwriting unit rather than a spectacular supporting touring cast. If it's not Axls goal, then what I'm thinking doesn't matter much.

And that's all I have to say about that. All this is written from the perspective of having a ton of respect for the current band and just wishing, as a fan, to hear more of what they have from a songwriting perspective. If that's an agenda, so be it, but it's coming from a genuine place as a fan of this band. What I feel is happening is misunderstanding a desire to hear new music from your favorite band.

[AxlHBK]

And maybe there is a distinction between promoting "the old band" as (1) the material they wrote together and (2) them as individuals. When I previously said promoting the old band, I meant it most closely with the first interpretation of the term. I feel the tours have strongly promoted GNR as a band that relies on past songwriting accomplishments made by the older versions of the band for success (ala motley Cr?e, rolling stones, Metallica) more than on more current songwriting accomplishments (as a consequence of the low degree of recording output made the new band). I don't mean it in a negative way, but simply as an observation. It doesn't take away the fact the current GNR live performances are among todays best. No one can question the reputation of GNR as a successful touring band in terms of quality performance and financial earnings.

[14 Yrs Of Silence]

You're right, GNR have promoted themselves by playing a successful tour all over the world. No need to argue about that. And correct me if I'm wrong, but no one said that by doing that, GNR is promoting the old version of the band.

Looks like someone did:

Axl supposedly has no interest in promoting the old band, and yet, has been touring for the last ten years with concerts whose setlists are composed primarily of songs written by the older bands.

/jarmo

Maybe what I meant was that even if playing Old material doesn't promote the old band, I'm not sure it's the best way to promote the fact that GNR is still an active band (other than a nostalgic touring act... Ala journey or motley crues or poisons, or kiss's or rolling stones successful tours). It's not twisting the tours to be anything negative, as i went to all 3 ny shows recently and had a fucking blast each night. It's more of thoughts on future directions to promote GNR today as a relevant songwriting based (as opposed to just performance based) band. I think the larger public that doesnt know any better (the laymans fan) sees GNR today as just Axl and hired guns performing their greatest hits. If that was true, there is nothing wrong with that, as that has value in it's own right, because it's really fun to experience live. But, we as the diehard fans know better, and in order to demonstrate this to the larger public, releasing more than one album in 10 years would go a long way in that effort.

But, this is only written assuming Axls main goal is to promote this version of the band as a viable songwriting unit rather than a spectacular supporting touring cast. If it's not Axls goal, then what I'm thinking doesn't matter much.

And that's all I have to say about that. All this is written from the perspective of having a ton of respect for the current band and just wishing, as a fan, to hear more of what they have from a songwriting perspective. If that's an agenda, so be it, but it's coming from a genuine place as a fan of this band. What I feel is happening is misunderstanding a desire to hear new music from your favorite band.

Well said! I agree with your sentiments 100%

[HBK]

"That might be the majority of people coming to the shows who have the old band in mind and go to the show to see Axl Rose"


DOK, i agree 100 percent

You Listen:

INSANE IN THE BRAIN - Cypress Hill

 

[Dok]

You're right, GNR have promoted themselves by playing a successful tour all over the world. No need to argue about that. And correct me if I'm wrong, but no one said that by doing that, GNR is promoting the old version of the band.

Looks like someone did:

Axl supposedly has no interest in promoting the old band, and yet, has been touring for the last ten years with concerts whose setlists are composed primarily of songs written by the older bands.

/jarmo

Yeah, sure. Someone did.
 ... 

[jarmo]

What's the problem Dok? Just pointing out that your assumption that no one did was wrong.


Now, if the person meant something else, there's always ways to clarify.

Maybe what I meant was that even if playing Old material doesn't promote the old band, I'm not sure it's the best way to promote the fact that GNR is still an active band (other than a nostalgic touring act

Well you can always say that.

GN'R could release multiple studio albums and not play anything pre-Chinese, and some would be upset.

I wouldn't be surprised if there was be a shit storm about how Axl is disrespecting the band's history by not playing the old songs, or acting like the past never existed.


Also, playing live is a great way to promote the band. In an age where music videos and radio has lost their meaning, playing live is an experience that can't be copied and experienced at your computer.




Anyway, there's no re-release in sight... The record company has kept re-releasing the album for years now in various formats.




/jarmo

[DeN]

no re-release in sight? good...I prefer they focus on the new album, now that the tour is over

[jarmo]

no re-release in sight? good...I prefer they focus on the new album, now that the tour is over

No, at least I haven't seen any re-releases on Amazon's upcoming releases...




/jarmo

[pilferk]

Just want to sort of chime in on something:

EVERY noteable band with a decent sized back catalog plays stuff off their old albums.  Green day is still playing stuff off Dookie, Metallica is still playing stuff off of Metallica (aka The black album) AND Ride the Lightning, Aerosmith (when they tour) is still playing stuff off Toys in the Attic (and Permanent Vactation), Bon Jovi is still playing stuff off of Slippery When Wet, and Def Leppard is still doing material off of Pyromania.  These are all bands that have released a pretty decent amount of material AFTER those albums were released...but, live, they're still doing material off those albums. If you want more modern examples, take Nickelback (PLEASE!), The Black Keys, Linkin Park, Foo Fighters, Godsmack, Shinedown....they all play plenty of stuff from their back catalogs at live shows.

Why? Because that material still resonates, and is popular, with their fans.

The disconnect here seems to be that some people want to split "old" GnR from "new" Gnr.  That's not right.  GnR is GnR is GnR.  They're playing off their back catalog, no matter who happened to be band members at the time of the creation of that material. 

Personally, I don't see the problem with it.  And, quite frankly, I don't get why GnR should be held to a different standard than any other band who's had significant, long lasting, success.  I  certainly don't think membership turnover is justification to do it.

[ChiDem2010]

no re-release in sight? good...I prefer they focus on the new album, now that the tour is over

No, at least I haven't seen any re-releases on Amazon's upcoming releases...




/jarmo

What exactly would be on a re-release? I'm not privy to what demos or AFD live recordings that would go on there