2012 Baseball Season/Off-Season Discussion

[Falcon]

Yanks/Tigers

Giants/Cards

Tradition rich post season baseball fellas.

Congrats and good luck Tim and pilf, enjoy.

[faldor]

Yanks/Tigers

Giants/Cards

Tradition rich post season baseball fellas.

Congrats and good luck Tim and pilf, enjoy.

Yeah, all 4 teams I was pulling for (the lesser knowns) were ousted.  So much for that.

I must say though.  Can anyone beat the Cardinals?  Until it's proven otherwise, I say no.

I went out after the Yanks won tonight and was casually watching the NLDS.  I saw the Nats jump out to an early, yet commanding lead.  I got home and turned the game on, but started catching up on my DVR.  I then tried to change the channel, assuming the game was over (Nats had won), but apparently I hit the wrong button.  So I figured I'd rewind to see how the game ended.  Only, the game wasn't over.  To my surprise, the Cards had actually taken the lead.  Unbelievable!

Congrats Falcon!  Truly amazing job by the Cards.  Much respect.

Sorry Yankee fans.  For obvious reasons, I can't congratulate you.  You'll be happy to know though, I'm picking the Tigers to win the upcoming series, again for obvious reasons.

[Falcon]

Congrats Falcon!  Truly amazing job by the Cards.  Much respect.

Thank you faldor, they've taken years off my life over the last 2 post seasons but I wouldn't have it any other way.

[tim_m]

That game was fucking unreal. How did the Nats blow that? I was in utter disbelief. I feel bad for them, losing like that is just demoralizing especially for such a young team. On the plus side they are a young team and hopefully will have many chances in their future. Having Strasburg all year next season will certainly help.

[tim_m]

Yanks/Tigers

Giants/Cards

Tradition rich post season baseball fellas.

Congrats and good luck Tim and pilf, enjoy.

Yeah, all 4 teams I was pulling for (the lesser knowns) were ousted.  So much for that.

I must say though.  Can anyone beat the Cardinals?  Until it's proven otherwise, I say no.

I went out after the Yanks won tonight and was casually watching the NLDS.  I saw the Nats jump out to an early, yet commanding lead.  I got home and turned the game on, but started catching up on my DVR.  I then tried to change the channel, assuming the game was over (Nats had won), but apparently I hit the wrong button.  So I figured I'd rewind to see how the game ended.  Only, the game wasn't over.  To my surprise, the Cards had actually taken the lead.  Unbelievable!

Congrats Falcon!  Truly amazing job by the Cards.  Much respect.

Sorry Yankee fans.  For obvious reasons, I can't congratulate you.  You'll be happy to know though, I'm picking the Tigers to win the upcoming series, again for obvious reasons.

No need to be sorry, you know that if it was reversed and it was the Sox i to would be rooting against them.

[pilferk]

Yankees offense (and NOT just A-rod, despite the media harping on him) looks to have decided to begin the off-season early.  The middle of that lineup (Cano, Swish, Granderson, A-rod) have been complete no-shows this season.

Also...too much swinging for the fences.  Too little plate discipline. Not a good combination.

Hopefully, they'll show up tonight and CC will pitch another gem.

I could give you 25 million reasons why A-Rod is taking most of the heat for his offensive offensive performance.  YES, I meant to use offensive twice.

You're right though, he's far from the only one.  But it's obviously gotten to Girardi, as he's out of the lineup for tonight.  And let's face it, Alex's role has slipped the last couple of games.  He went from the #3 hitter to getting pinched hit for, to getting dropped in the lineup and pinched hit for again, to now being out of the lineup.  I know people say it's  ballsy move, but I think it's a little cowardly.  Either you stick with the guy, or you turn elsewhere.  Now obviously, he's chosen to turn elsewhere tonight.  But that was clearly on his mind, he just didn't act on it fully for 2 games.  I mean when is the last time a #3 hitter has been pinch hit for in a tied playoff game without health being a factor?  That doesn't happen.  I don't know.  I get it, and I agree with benching A-Rod.  I just think he should've done it in game 3 instead of pinch hitting for him.  He's basically piled on to embarrassing the guy. 

If the Yanks lose tonight, Alex has to come back next season off the heals of yet another disappointing post season and try to win back favor with the fans knowing he's owed an enormous amount of money over the next FIVE seasons.  If they win, he has to try and regroup on the fly for the next series where life doesn't get much easier as the Tigers starting pitching at the very least is equal too if not better than the O's.  He's put himself in a tough spot, but I don't think Girardi has made it any easier for him.

Just a thought.  I've gone through this as a fan of the Red Sox.  Back in 2004 when they played the Yanks, guys like Damon and Millar were struggling mightily and I was screaming for them to shake things up.  But Francona showed faith and solidarity with his guys and left things the way they were.  It ended up being the right decision.  Jerking guys around, doesn't seem like the right decision to me.  It's one way or the other.

I've said it once, and I'll say it again: Fans shouldn't care jack shit about how much a guy is making.  It's a personal business matter between them and their team.  They asked for it, the team agreed to pay it.

It has nothing to do with performance, how they should perform, etc.  Get pissed because they're not producing...not because they happen to get a certain number printed on their paycheck every 2 weeks.

Which is my point.  It's unfair to blame the guy when there were other guys in the lineup who were just as putrid...at least one of which is about to get another GINORMOUS contract out of the Yanks.

We'll see what happens tonight in Detroit.  They have no lefty starters...and Alex has been pretty bad against Righty's since coming back from the hand injury.

[AxlsMainMan]

Yankees offense (and NOT just A-rod, despite the media harping on him) looks to have decided to begin the off-season early.  The middle of that lineup (Cano, Swish, Granderson, A-rod) have been complete no-shows this season.

Also...too much swinging for the fences.  Too little plate discipline. Not a good combination.

Hopefully, they'll show up tonight and CC will pitch another gem.

I could give you 25 million reasons why A-Rod is taking most of the heat for his offensive offensive performance.  YES, I meant to use offensive twice.

You're right though, he's far from the only one.  But it's obviously gotten to Girardi, as he's out of the lineup for tonight.  And let's face it, Alex's role has slipped the last couple of games.  He went from the #3 hitter to getting pinched hit for, to getting dropped in the lineup and pinched hit for again, to now being out of the lineup.  I know people say it's  ballsy move, but I think it's a little cowardly.  Either you stick with the guy, or you turn elsewhere.  Now obviously, he's chosen to turn elsewhere tonight.  But that was clearly on his mind, he just didn't act on it fully for 2 games.  I mean when is the last time a #3 hitter has been pinch hit for in a tied playoff game without health being a factor?  That doesn't happen.  I don't know.  I get it, and I agree with benching A-Rod.  I just think he should've done it in game 3 instead of pinch hitting for him.  He's basically piled on to embarrassing the guy. 

If the Yanks lose tonight, Alex has to come back next season off the heals of yet another disappointing post season and try to win back favor with the fans knowing he's owed an enormous amount of money over the next FIVE seasons.  If they win, he has to try and regroup on the fly for the next series where life doesn't get much easier as the Tigers starting pitching at the very least is equal too if not better than the O's.  He's put himself in a tough spot, but I don't think Girardi has made it any easier for him.

Just a thought.  I've gone through this as a fan of the Red Sox.  Back in 2004 when they played the Yanks, guys like Damon and Millar were struggling mightily and I was screaming for them to shake things up.  But Francona showed faith and solidarity with his guys and left things the way they were.  It ended up being the right decision.  Jerking guys around, doesn't seem like the right decision to me.  It's one way or the other.

I've said it once, and I'll say it again: Fans shouldn't care jack shit about how much a guy is making.  It's a personal business matter between them and their team.  They asked for it, the team agreed to pay it.

No, fans have every right to care about how much that bum is making; especially when the Yanks almost got knocked off by a team who's entire payroll is just double A-Roid's salary for this year. Not to mention that the fans contribute significantly to his salary through merchandise and obscene ticket prices, so why shouldn't they be upset when their money is simply going down the toilet? It's beyond ludicrous to the extent that it makes one's brain bleed if they think about it for too long.

What's the glaring irony of the NHL lockout pointed out by pundits: it's largely the fans' money that they can't decide how to divide. The same essentially applies to baseball: the fans help finance the teams and the whole operation, so you better believe they have every right to expect accountability and a quality product.

By paying taxes to the government you have a right to criticize how your money is managed and spent, so why wouldn't/shouldn't the same apply to MLB?

Moreover, outside of the Angels who seemed happy to gobble up Vernon Wells almost equally as absurd contract, where in the world could the Yanks conceivably trade A-Roid? Instead of fans getting something positive for their time and money that they invest in the team they get an albatross for another 5 years.

Rodriguez is 2 for 16 with nine strikeouts in the series. A career .300 hitter, Rodriguez went 2 for 18 in last year's playoffs.

Don't you think a AA or AAA guy could post stats like that at a fraction of the cost? Hell, don't you think you or I could? Lance Berkman made a measly $8 million last year and you saw how much he contributed to his team, so please explain how A-Roid, by comparison, comes even close to justifying a salary of close to $30,000,000.

[Bodhi]

Fans shouldn't care about how much a player is making, but they do.  It is funny to me how fans only care about how much money a player is making when they are playing poorly, as if the ludicrous amount of money these guys get paid to play a child's game is somehow justified in the fans minds if they are batting .400.  For me personally, these guys have a unique skill set and if certain people want to pay insane amounts of money for it, hey thats life.  Good for them.  Lets not forget these guys also generate money.

 Why on earth would any fans blame A-Rod for his contract?  How is the fact that the Yankees signed him to a dumb contract his fault?  I don't blame ARod one bit, the Yankees grossly overpaid for him, I say good for him, we would all take the money too.  Being stupid and reckless with their money is a luxury the Yankees can afford,  if fans want to be mad at anyone, be mad at Brian Cashman and the Yankees. Although, I still don't see the point in that.  The team is in the ALCS, and as long as they win the World Series I don't give a rats ass how much they spent to make that happen.  My job is to turn the tv on and watch them win or lose, thats where my responsibilities end as a fan.  Some of these fans get way too into it.  The only reason I am aware of ARods contract is because people wont shut up about it.

For the record, 5 years people..he still has 5 years left on that hilarious contract.

[tim_m]

And A-Rod hits the ball well into the hole in his first at bat and the ss makes a great play to save 2 runs. That's how things go when you are struggling.

[tim_m]

Raul Ibanez the new Mr. October!

[tim_m]

Crushing blow for the yankees, jeter is done with a fractured ankle.

[faldor]

Pardon the pun but, tough break for the Yanks.

I dislike them as much as the next guy, but you hate to see guys go out like that, especially one of Derek Jeter's stature.  Freak injuries happen all the time, but it was apparent he was playing through pain and it just came to a point where he couldn't take it anymore after that severe ankle roll.  It looked painful.

And he was one of the few Yankees position players who was playing well.  That alone, not to mention his leadership, will be hard to replace.  Personally, I think this is too big a blow to overcome.  At best, they were even with the Tigers.  You'd have to think they take a step back with this injury.  However, if you want to look on the bright side.  As well as Jeter was playing, it's not as if he was setting the table for them to score 7 runs a game.  Offense has been hard to come by, it's tough to imagine they were going to flick the switch even with Jeter.  They were living and dying with their pitching and Ibanez's heroic efforts.  Well, they still have that.  If they can continue to pitch lights out and get clutch homers, anything is possible.  Plus, we've seen it time and again.  Replacement players often come in and plug a hole, exceeding expectations.  I wouldn't be surprised if Nix, did just that.  Other guys have to step up too.  A-Rod, Swisher, Granderson.  They've struggled mightily.  They need them now more than ever.  We'll see if they're up to the task.

Bottom line, I don't expect the Yankees to lay down and die.  I expect them to play some inspired baseball today.  Stay tuned.

[Bodhi]

Tough blow no doubt, but its not like the Yankees have chopped liver on the rest of the roster here.  True story, I just read a Yankee fan on my facebook saying the season is over and begging to get swept.  Lunacy.  I'm looking forward to see how they step up.

[tim_m]

Yeah, as big as losing Jeter is one player doesn't make the team. Its still about 9 guys playing together. They just have to find a way to do that with Nix at SS and not Jeter.

[tim_m]

Pardon the pun but, tough break for the Yanks.

I dislike them as much as the next guy, but you hate to see guys go out like that, especially one of Derek Jeter's stature.  Freak injuries happen all the time, but it was apparent he was playing through pain and it just came to a point where he couldn't take it anymore after that severe ankle roll.  It looked painful.

And he was one of the few Yankees position players who was playing well.  That alone, not to mention his leadership, will be hard to replace.  Personally, I think this is too big a blow to overcome.  At best, they were even with the Tigers.  You'd have to think they take a step back with this injury.  However, if you want to look on the bright side.  As well as Jeter was playing, it's not as if he was setting the table for them to score 7 runs a game.  Offense has been hard to come by, it's tough to imagine they were going to flick the switch even with Jeter.  They were living and dying with their pitching and Ibanez's heroic efforts.  Well, they still have that.  If they can continue to pitch lights out and get clutch homers, anything is possible.  Plus, we've seen it time and again.  Replacement players often come in and plug a hole, exceeding expectations.  I wouldn't be surprised if Nix, did just that.  Other guys have to step up too.  A-Rod, Swisher, Granderson.  They've struggled mightily.  They need them now more than ever.  We'll see if they're up to the task.

Bottom line, I don't expect the Yankees to lay down and die.  I expect them to play some inspired baseball today.  Stay tuned.

It looked real bad. You know if Jeter can't even get up its serious this guy is as tough as they come and if he stays down its not good. We'll see how they respond.

[tim_m]

Cano is just getting victimized by the umps in this series with bad calls. Yesterday when he was called out on a play that would've scored a run then today in the 8th inning the runner was called safe when he was clearly out when Cano tagged him. It wasn't even close either he was 2 feet off the damn base.

[pilferk]

No, fans have every right to care about how much that bum is making; especially when the Yanks almost got knocked off by a team who's entire payroll is just double A-Roid's salary for this year. Not to mention that the fans contribute significantly to his salary through merchandise and obscene ticket prices, so why shouldn't they be upset when their money is simply going down the toilet? It's beyond ludicrous to the extent that it makes one's brain bleed if they think about it for too long.

So...because you buy an Ipod, or an Iphone, or an Ipad, or a Nano...you get to tell Apple how much they can pay their workers?  And you take issue, when something like the Maps fiasco happens with Iphone 5, with the mid-level executive who's getting paid above market value?  Or take issue with a specific building component because of how much they decide to pay for a processor or a transistor?

Of course not.  You can buy their product or not.  You can complain about function.  You can complain about the product and it's features.  You can complain about it's pricing (as it relates to YOUR cost).  But the rest...those are business decisions made by Apple, a privately held company who can do business any way they want to.

The Yankees are no different.  They are a business.  The team they field (and it's related revenue sources) is their product.  You are a consumer of that product.  Once you CHOOSE to buy that product...it's not your money any more.  It's the Yankees money...to use as they see fit.  YOU can then decide if you think their product is still worth buying.

How much one of their players gets paid?  Nope...not so much.

How they're functioning on the field? Knock yourself out.

The two are not related.

What's the glaring irony of the NHL lockout pointed out by pundits: it's largely the fans' money that they can't decide how to divide. The same essentially applies to baseball: the fans help finance the teams and the whole operation, so you better believe they have every right to expect accountability and a quality product.

Sure, the fans should expect a quality product.  And if they don't get it....they can stop buying it. 

"Accountability" from the team, in terms of how they're spending their money? No...as long as they're not defrauding you.  They're not shareholders or members of the ownership. The fans are not not part of their labor force, either.

A PLAYER should be accountable for his performance on the field....but not for his paycheck.

By paying taxes to the government you have a right to criticize how your money is managed and spent, so why wouldn't/shouldn't the same apply to MLB?

Sure you see how truly awful that analogy is.

You are required, by law, to pay taxes.  One of the founding principals of our country (and much of the reason we fought the Revolutionary war) is Taxation WITH Representation.  You pay taxes on one end, you get to vote on the other. 

That's quite different than what purchasing a product gets you.

You are not required, by any law, to buy Yankee tickets or Merchandise.  The Yanks are not owned by the fans (unlike the Green Bay Packers), the government, or any municipality.  They are owned by the Yankee Ownership Group.  You are not a stockholder of that group.

You are a fan. You are not entitled to "representation" when it comes to the day to day operations, and business decisions, made by that group.

You can certainly point out when the product on the field stinks.  You can "vote" with your wallet (and many are...look at the empty seats in ALCS games 1 and 2) when you think the product becomes unwatchable.  There's your consumer power, within the market.

Holding one athlete more responsible than another, simply because he's getting a larger check, isn't.  And it makes no sense.

Moreover, outside of the Angels who seemed happy to gobble up Vernon Wells almost equally as absurd contract, where in the world could the Yanks conceivably trade A-Roid? Instead of fans getting something positive for their time and money that they invest in the team they get an albatross for another 5 years.

But it was the Yankees decision to make.  And it's not the FANS money. As for time..nobody is forcing anyone to watch. Don't buy tickets or change the channel.

I agree...they're stuck with a player who will have questionable impact over the term of his contract.  But that issue is related to his on the field performance, not the money he's making.

Rodriguez is 2 for 16 with nine strikeouts in the series. A career .300 hitter, Rodriguez went 2 for 18 in last year's playoffs.

Don't you think a AA or AAA guy could post stats like that at a fraction of the cost? Hell, don't you think you or I could? Lance Berkman made a measly $8 million last year and you saw how much he contributed to his team, so please explain how A-Roid, by comparison, comes even close to justifying a salary of close to $30,000,000.

No, I don't think you or I could do much better.  I think you underestimate how hard it is to hit MLB pitching.

Again, I don't need to explain how A-rod justifies his salary...because I'm not A-rod AND I'm not the Yankees.  I don't care, other than in terms of business and profitability discussions, what he makes.  That's entirely my point.  No fan should.

I care about him justifying his place in the day to day lineup, or on the bench, based on on the field performance.  He's not doing that...so he's getting pinch hit for or benched.  Appropriately so.

BUT, as we can all see....Cano, Swish, and Granderson are just as unproductive this year.  I would say they are just as much to blame as Arod is for the teams failings on offense.

[pilferk]

Bottom line, I don't expect the Yankees to lay down and die.  I expect them to play some inspired baseball today.  Stay tuned.

See..I expect them to die (maybe not lay down)..and did going into yesterday's game.  I don't think, at this point, they're capable of "insipired" baseball.  There's too much going on in their heads.

Offensively, they are hard to watch right now.  With the exception of ONE inning (9th inning, game 1, of the ALDS), they have been throughout the playoffs.

I have watched 75% to 80% of every Yankees AB (live or taped) since the advent of the YES network.

I find myself changing the channel, a LOT, and just monitoring the score via Directv Doubleplay and scoreboard.

The team looks tired, uninspired, and uninterested.  They look, almost to a man, completely lost at the plate.

I suspect they are playing for their much beloved hitting coach's (Kevin Long) job, right now.  If they don't manage to score some runs (even if they lose the series, which, at this point, seems pretty likely)...I think he's the first shot across the bow from the front office and ownership.

[pilferk]

Tough blow no doubt, but its not like the Yankees have chopped liver on the rest of the roster here.  True story, I just read a Yankee fan on my facebook saying the season is over and begging to get swept.  Lunacy.  I'm looking forward to see how they step up.

The loss of Jeter, alone, isn't the mark of the end of the season.

The way they're hitting, right now, likely is.  I'm not trying to be the typical pessimistic, drive time radio caller-type fan here.  You can look back at my post history and see that I'm usually pretty "glass half full" when it comes to the Yanks.

But we've got 4 guys in our lineup who look like little league batters facing MLB pitching.  And the worse they do, the worse their swings get.  Which just perpetuates the problem.  And they will be facing Verlander and Scherzer over the next 2 games, on the road.

IMHO, the outlook is gloomy at best.  Unless they manage a complete "flip the script", and all start hitting like Ibanez....they're in trouble.

[pilferk]

Cano is just getting victimized by the umps in this series with bad calls. Yesterday when he was called out on a play that would've scored a run then today in the 8th inning the runner was called safe when he was clearly out when Cano tagged him. It wasn't even close either he was 2 feet off the damn base.

There have been a bunch of bad calls on the base paths this series.  

But...1-0 or 3-0...if you don't score any runs, you can't win.

Ump did admit it: http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/10/14/umpire-admits-bad-call-joe-girardi-calls-for-more-replay/related/

They've had SOO many chances (bases loaded 1 out, bases loaded, 2 outs, guys on 2nd and 3rd, NO outs) to score runs the past couple games...and just epically failed at it....it's tough to point to the bad calls and inconsistent strike zone as reasons behind their losses.