2012 Baseball Season/Off-Season Discussion

[tim_m]

Yesterdays trade was a good start, but they're nowhere near done.

Yesterdays trade was a great start, I caught a bit of Ben Cherington's presser - very impressive.

I'd love to see the Yankees counter by seeing if they could get the Dodgers to take on ARod's mammoth mistake contract..

Oh the irony...

I don't see that scenario happening with the yankees.

[Falcon]

Yesterdays trade was a good start, but they're nowhere near done.

Yesterdays trade was a great start, I caught a bit of Ben Cherington's presser - very impressive.

I'd love to see the Yankees counter by seeing if they could get the Dodgers to take on ARod's mammoth mistake contract..

Oh the irony...

I don't see that scenario happening with the yankees.

It was attempt at ironic humor although I do think the Yankees would do it in a heartbeat if the Dodgers (or anyone for that matter) would pick up the tab.

[tim_m]

Yesterdays trade was a good start, but they're nowhere near done.

Yesterdays trade was a great start, I caught a bit of Ben Cherington's presser - very impressive.

I'd love to see the Yankees counter by seeing if they could get the Dodgers to take on ARod's mammoth mistake contract..

Oh the irony...

I don't see that scenario happening with the yankees.

It was attempt at ironic humor although I do think the Yankees would do it in a heartbeat if the Dodgers (or anyone for that matter) would pick up the tab.

I'm not sure anyone would because of all the incentives in the contract for milestones.

[pilferk]

Looks like faldor was right (about the housecleaning) and I was right about the compensation (shit).  In terms of pure value of the trade (and not what the trade means, long term), the Sox got ass raped, IMHO.

Which isn't to say it's not a good move for the Red Sox. It likely is.  It clears tons of payroll, which means maybe they can rebuild in the offseason.  It's probably the move they had to make, all things considered.

But (again IMHO), A-gon alone was basically worth what the Sox got back.  Never mind they threw in Becket, Crawford, Punto (who, IMHO, is actually a great pickup for the Dodgers, considering Hairston ended up on the DL) AND cash.

[GeorgeSteele]

Any official word on how much salary Boston will have to eat with this trade? 

[pilferk]

Any official word on how much salary Boston will have to eat with this trade? 

The only thing I've read is "cash considerations".  No mention on exactly how much.

[pilferk]

Looks like Ortiz is headed back to the DL..and they might shut him down for the season.

http://espn.go.com/boston/mlb/story/_/id/8304601/david-ortiz-boston-red-sox-ailing-no-dl-decision-yet

I say: Shut him down.  They're done, in terms of this season.  Let him rest it, see if that helps, and if not...get in there for surgery.

[LongGoneDay]

It's tough to get overly excited about this trade. The media is proclaiming it the best in history.
It's hardly even a trade in my eyes. Right now it's a salary dump, and the reset button has been pressed. The Sox were a player or two away from being championship contenders, and swung and missed so badly they have to blow the whole thing up.

Hopefully the prospects work out, but that's a crapshoot.
Really it's just an admittance that management shit the bed so badly, they couldn't sit back watching the ship sink and hope everything worked itself out.
Gonzalez is a casualty of the bad contracts doled out to Crawford and Lackey. We are not replacing Gonzalez production with one player.
He is exactly the type of player the Sox want here. Productive and professional.

Unfortunately we will have to see the hard way how much worse the offense will look every time Loney steps into the box instead of A-Gon.
Loney was once a promising player, but he's a pimple on Gonzalez's ass on his best day.

They've got a long way to go before they are again competitive, but I'll give them credit for acknowledging there was a huge problem, and are making strides towards addressing it. Getting out from under the albatross that is Crawfords contract is something I didn't think any team would be dumb enough to help us out with, so thanks LA. I guess it doesn't much matter to them, as they are printing money, and they have a new face of their franchise in Gonzalez.
It would have been nice if they could have taken Lackey, but that's probably getting greedy!

I have more confidence in Beckett rebounding than Lackey, who has zero chance of living up to his contract in the AL East.

Should work out okay for LA, as Gonzalez is a stud. Crawford's Tampa days are behind him, but if his wrist issues are addressed, he should be breathing easier now that he doesn't have the burden of living up to a huge contract under the microscope of Boston media. Beckett's is a year removed from a pretty stellar season throwing out September, so it's not unfathomable to think he could rebound and be productive pitching in a pitcher friendly park and anemic offensive division.

Hope they stay away from Hamilton and Greinke. Not sure what moves are there to be made, but it will be interesting to see what Ben has up his sleeves.
They've got a long way to go. They went from having (2) middle of the order bats, to possibly having none if Ortiz walks. Will they commit long term to Ellsbury? Does he want to stay? Does anyone want to come here as a FA after all the dirty laundry being aired and smear campaign parties?

This team did little for me, so in the end I don't have a problem with the trade. Just sucks that they had to give up a player they had coveted for years just to dump bad contracts.

[pilferk]

It's tough to get overly excited about this trade. The media is proclaiming it the best in history.
It's hardly even a trade in my eyes. Right now it's a salary dump, and the reset button has been pressed. The Sox were a player or two away from being championship contenders, and swung and missed so badly they have to blow the whole thing up.

Hopefully the prospects work out, but that's a crapshoot.
Really it's just an admittance that management shit the bed so badly, they couldn't sit back watching the ship sink and hope everything worked itself out.
Gonzalez is a casualty of the bad contracts doled out to Crawford and Lackey. We are not replacing Gonzalez production with one player.
He is exactly the type of player the Sox want here. Productive and professional.

Unfortunately we will have to see the hard way how much worse the offense will look every time Loney steps into the box instead of A-Gon.
Loney was once a promising player, but he's a pimple on Gonzalez's ass on his best day.

They've got a long way to go before they are again competitive, but I'll give them credit for acknowledging there was a huge problem, and are making strides towards addressing it. Getting out from under the albatross that is Crawfords contract is something I didn't think any team would be dumb enough to help us out with, so thanks LA. I guess it doesn't much matter to them, as they are printing money, and they have a new face of their franchise in Gonzalez.
It would have been nice if they could have taken Lackey, but that's probably getting greedy!

I have more confidence in Beckett rebounding than Lackey, who has zero chance of living up to his contract in the AL East.

Should work out okay for LA, as Gonzalez is a stud. Crawford's Tampa days are behind him, but if his wrist issues are addressed, he should be breathing easier now that he doesn't have the burden of living up to a huge contract under the microscope of Boston media. Beckett's is a year removed from a pretty stellar season throwing out September, so it's not unfathomable to think he could rebound and be productive pitching in a pitcher friendly park and anemic offensive division.

Hope they stay away from Hamilton and Greinke. Not sure what moves are there to be made, but it will be interesting to see what Ben has up his sleeves.
They've got a long way to go. They went from having (2) middle of the order bats, to possibly having none if Ortiz walks. Will they commit long term to Ellsbury? Does he want to stay? Does anyone want to come here as a FA after all the dirty laundry being aired and smear campaign parties?

This team did little for me, so in the end I don't have a problem with the trade. Just sucks that they had to give up a player they had coveted for years just to dump bad contracts.

Face it:  The Sox were going to have to include one of 2 players in any salary dump of this magnitude...A-gon or Pedroia.  They're the only things of value they have, right now, to convince ANYONE to take on that kind of payroll.  And A-gon is the easier sell (both to other teams and to the Sox faithfull).

Ellsbury doesn't have enough years left on his deal.  They don't really have ANY compelling pitching (Lester, were he having a good season, but he's not) that would do it. And their farm system is, at this point, needed to actually play MLB innings.

Not much left.....

[Falcon]

Yesterdays trade was a good start, but they're nowhere near done.

Yesterdays trade was a great start, I caught a bit of Ben Cherington's presser - very impressive.

I'd love to see the Yankees counter by seeing if they could get the Dodgers to take on ARod's mammoth mistake contract..

Oh the irony...

I don't see that scenario happening with the yankees.

It was attempt at ironic humor although I do think the Yankees would do it in a heartbeat if the Dodgers (or anyone for that matter) would pick up the tab.

I'm not sure anyone would because of all the incentives in the contract for milestones.

Salary/milestone clauses, age, diminishing ability et al.

He's a Yankee til his deal ends....

[GeorgeSteele]

^ On A-Rod, he has 5 years, $114M left on his current contract.  Plus, he gets $6M each for his 660th, 714th, 755th, 762nd, and 763rd career homers.  He has 644 homers now.  At his age, current injury rate and diminished production, I'd be surprised if he made it to 755.  But I do think he'll continue to be a top-tier 3rd baseman for the next few years.

[Falcon]

But I do think he'll continue to be a top-tier 3rd baseman for the next few years.

Continue?

He hasn't sniffed that air in a couple of years and he's not getting any younger.

[GeorgeSteele]

But I do think he'll continue to be a top-tier 3rd baseman for the next few years.

Continue?

He hasn't sniffed that air in a couple of years and he's not getting any younger.

I can't name 10 guys better than him at 3rd; overall, bat + glove. 

[pilferk]

Continue?

He hasn't sniffed that air in a couple of years and he's not getting any younger.

Who's better?  Offense + defense?

Not many names in front of him on the list.  I can think of only a few: Longoria..Zimmerman...not sure there are any more.  Bautista (even though he's more of an occasional/spot 3rd baseman) and Beltre's bats might be better.  Wright's defense might be better.  But in terms of total package?  I'd still rank him top 5.

He's not a top tier MLB PLAYER any more.  But I think he still ranks as a top tier 3rd baseman....even with the injuries.  It's a pretty shallow position.

This year was a little disappointing even when healthy.  The BA was there..but he had warning track power.  We'll see what happens when he comes back.  In addition...I'm not sure this season can be considered the same as previous injury plagued seasons.  Really...he went on the DL once...and it wasn't his body that failed him.  It was the pitch to his hand/wrist.

You're going to have a hard time naming many not named Longoria

[GeorgeSteele]

Continue?

He hasn't sniffed that air in a couple of years and he's not getting any younger.

Who's better?  Offense + defense?

Not many names in front of him on the list.  I can think of only a few: Longoria..Zimmerman...not sure there are any more.  Bautista (even though he's more of an occasional/spot 3rd baseman) and Beltre's bats might be better.  Wright's defense might be better.  But in terms of total package?  I'd still rank him top 5.

He's not a top tier MLB PLAYER any more.  But I think he still ranks as a top tier 3rd baseman....even with the injuries.  It's a pretty shallow position.

This year was a little disappointing even when healthy.  The BA was there..but he had warning track power.  We'll see what happens when he comes back.  In addition...I'm not sure this season can be considered the same as previous injury plagued seasons.  Really...he went on the DL once...and it wasn't his body that failed him.  It was the pitch to his hand/wrist.

You're going to have a hard time naming many not named Longoria

Miguel Cabrera has played almost all his games at 3rd this season; not sure how long that will last, but for now I think he belongs in that upper tier group as well.  Another good one is Aramis Ramirez... and David Freese is an up-and-comer.  But them, plus the guys you mentioned, that's basically it. 

[tim_m]

Yesterdays trade was a good start, but they're nowhere near done.

Yesterdays trade was a great start, I caught a bit of Ben Cherington's presser - very impressive.

I'd love to see the Yankees counter by seeing if they could get the Dodgers to take on ARod's mammoth mistake contract..

Oh the irony...

I don't see that scenario happening with the yankees.

It was attempt at ironic humor although I do think the Yankees would do it in a heartbeat if the Dodgers (or anyone for that matter) would pick up the tab.

I'm not sure anyone would because of all the incentives in the contract for milestones.

Salary/milestone clauses, age, diminishing ability et al.

He's a Yankee til his deal ends....

That pretty much sums it up.

[Falcon]

Continue?

He hasn't sniffed that air in a couple of years and he's not getting any younger.

Who's better?  Offense + defense?

Not many names in front of him on the list.  I can think of only a few: Longoria..Zimmerman...not sure there are any more.  Bautista (even though he's more of an occasional/spot 3rd baseman) and Beltre's bats might be better.  Wright's defense might be better.  But in terms of total package?  I'd still rank him top 5.

He's not a top tier MLB PLAYER any more.  But I think he still ranks as a top tier 3rd baseman....even with the injuries.  It's a pretty shallow position.

This year was a little disappointing even when healthy.  The BA was there..but he had warning track power.  We'll see what happens when he comes back.  In addition...I'm not sure this season can be considered the same as previous injury plagued seasons.  Really...he went on the DL once...and it wasn't his body that failed him.  It was the pitch to his hand/wrist.

You're going to have a hard time naming many not named Longoria

In no order, here's 12 guys I'd take over ARod right now.

Longoria
Cabrera
Zimmerman
Beltre
Headley
Freese
Bautista
Wright
Sandoval
Ramirez - Hanley/Aramis
Trumbo

[tim_m]

I find it amusing the sox have been playing much better without Beckett, Crawford and A-Gon.

[faldor]

I find it amusing the sox have been playing much better without Beckett, Crawford and A-Gon.

Well they have played the Royals the last 4 games, plus it's hard to do much worse than they were doing.

Big trades can often light a fire under a team, even if they don't give you great return on investment.  Let's face it, the only one they're truly going to miss in the grand scheme of things is Gonzalez.  They weren't winning much with him in the lineup, it's all about pitching.  Although, the pitching hasn't been great against the Royals, outside of Dice-K today.  Amazingly enough.  The offense will obviously take a hit long term, but pitching is the main reason they're in the position they're in.

[tim_m]

I find it amusing the sox have been playing much better without Beckett, Crawford and A-Gon.

Well they have played the Royals the last 4 games, plus it's hard to do much worse than they were doing.

Big trades can often light a fire under a team, even if they don't give you great return on investment.  Let's face it, the only one they're truly going to miss in the grand scheme of things is Gonzalez.  They weren't winning much with him in the lineup, it's all about pitching.  Although, the pitching hasn't been great against the Royals, outside of Dice-K today.  Amazingly enough.  The offense will obviously take a hit long term, but pitching is the main reason they're in the position they're in.

Granted it has been against the Royals, we should see what they are capable of when they play the Angels tomorrow. Although, the Angels haven't exactly been playing well.