2012 Baseball Season/Off-Season Discussion

[faldor]

The RedSox streak of brain dead moves is rumored to be going strong.
They are considering trading away one of the best hitters/defensive 1B in MLB.
Interesting strategy. Trade the good players, keep the busts..

http://espn.go.com/boston/mlb/story/_/id/8300112/boston-red-sox-adrian-gonzalez-headed-los-angeles-dodgers-sources-say

I think they're just gauging interest at this point.  They supposedly had discussions with the Dodgers about Gonzalez before the deadline.  They're not going to just let him walk for nothing, so there's no harm in seeing what they could get in return for ANYONE.  Apparently a team also claimed Beckett, and that team may also have been the Dodgers.  If you could get rid of Beckett only by including Gonzalez you'd have to think about it.  That's 35+ million off the books for next year alone, not to mention the duration of Adrian's contract.  They could find ways to use that money to match the production of those 2 combined, if not exceed it.  They have to do something drastic to shake things up.  Adrian is obviously a good player, but he has yet to play up to the level that was expected.  The Sox aren't paying him a million dollars per home run, at least that wasn't the plan.  Not that it's his fault, but he was on some pretty bad teams with the Padres, and now with the Red Sox.  He's been a part of 2 huge September collapses with each team.  He complained about all the prime time games the Sox had to play last season, as if that had something to do with his/the teams poor performance down the stretch.  I'm not sure he's wired to play in Boston.  At least he hasn't proven it to me to this point.  

I think he proved he was wired for Boston when he hit .338 with 27 homers and 117 RBI in year one.
His power numbers will come back around, he's still young, and that swing will age well.

His production the first half of last season was great.  Since then, he's been average at best.  I wasn't really speaking about his production anyway, more his mindset.  He's a west coast guy and based on his own comments, he doesn't seem to like the constant spotlight and media scrutiny.  Few do, but he seems like he might not be a fit here UNLESS they're winning.  Nobody likes to lose, but it's much easier to lose in San Diego than it is in Boston.  I don't think Adrian, or anyone, expected things to unfold the way they have the last 2 years, which has everyone re-evaluating it seems.

[faldor]

faldor, this could be the best thing could possibly happen to the Sox, absolute genious move it it works out.

And from a Dodger standpoint, maybe the worst move since they signed Eric Davis and Daryl Srawberry.

Hilarious.

That is taking on an immense amount of money, IF the deal goes through.  But, in defense of the Dodgers.  I think Gonzalez would be more comfortable back on the West Coast and he'd put up San Diego type numbers out there along with playing gold glove 1B.  Carl Crawford played a lot better this year before going under the knife, there's still a chance he can return to his Tampa Bay form.  Obviously he will never live up to his contract, but if he can hit .290/15/80/ with 50 SB's it'd be a nice return.  Beckett and Punto have one more year left on their deals and some think Beckett is done but I'm not sure.  He's been good one year, bad the next for the last 6 years, so if he continues on that line he'd be in for a bounce back year.  Punto is a good character utility guy, as you well know.

Like I've said before, I'm open to trading ANYONE, so I'd be okay with it.  I would think though, they could get more for Gonzalez in the off-season.  At this point they could only get prospects, unless the Dodgers pass guys through waivers as well.  I'd like to think Gonzo could net an established pitcher in the off season.  Maybe the Red Sox view this as the only way they can unload both Crawford and Beckett though.  Interesting to say the least.  One thing is for sure, they are 20 games below .500 since last September.  It's tough to imagine them being worse by trading Adrian Gonzalez.  Not that he's the reason they've been so bad, but he hasn't exactly made much of a difference.

[tim_m]

Well faldor, you said the sox need to clean house. If this happens you get your wish.

[Falcon]

Loney, AGon scratched from lineups - it appears to be on.

I admire the Sox for flushing the toilet, congrats faldor.

[tim_m]

Loney, AGon scratched from lineups - it appears to be on.

I admire the Sox for flushing the toilet, congrats faldor.

This needed to happen. Way too many toxins in that clubhouse.

[faldor]

I just hope the prospects pan out. Per Gordon Edes, Rubby De La Rosa had TJ surgery last year and hit 97 on the gun last week. Another top prospect (P-Wheeler?) is supposed to be included as well. I'm for it. Something major had to be done. This qualifies. I wonder what the financial breakdown of the deal will be. Certainly the Dodgers aren't going to take on ALL the money, but hopefully a good chunk.

More from twitter. Buster Olney seems to imply the prospects they're receiving in the deal aren't as good as you'd normally expect because of the money involved. More of a straight salary dump for the Sox. We'll see what they do with that money now.

[Falcon]

I just hope the prospects pan out. Per Gordon Edes, Rubby De La Rosa had TJ surgery last year and hit 97 on the gun last week. Another top prospect (P-Wheeler?) is supposed to be included as well. I'm for it. Something major had to be done. This qualifies. I wonder what the financial breakdown of the deal will be. Certainly the Dodgers aren't going to take on ALL the money, but hopefully a good chunk.

More from twitter. Buster Olney seems to imply the prospects they're receiving in the deal aren't as good as you'd normally expect because of the money involved. More of a straight salary dump for the Sox. We'll see what they do with that money now.

Dealing for prospects is always dicey, there's very few "can't miss" guys and the one's being talked about in the deal aren't of that variety.  Organzations overhype to inflate perceived value, it's a part of the biz.

Webster's the guy the Dodgers have been high on, allegedly wouldn't include him in any Dempster deal - the Red Sox gotta get him in the mix.

Who knows what the Sox will do with the cash, overspending for free agents is hardly ever a good idea. 

faldor, where are Pedroia and Ellsbury in their current deals?

I would think locking them up if not already would be of high priority.

[tim_m]

Fox sports and Ken Rosenthal are now reporting the dodgers and sox have agreed in principal to send beckett, crawford, gonzalez and punto to the dogers. Final stages of negotiations are going on now.

[tim_m]

Source: Dodgers, BoSox agree to deal
FOX Sports Jon Paul Morosi and Ken Rosenthal

Updated Aug 24, 2012 8:07 PM ET
   
 

The Boston Red Sox and Los Angeles Dodgers are on the verge of a blockbuster trade.

The Dodgers have agreed in principle with the Red Sox on a trade for Adrian Gonzalez, Josh Beckett, Carl Crawford and Nick Punto, according to a major league source. Discussions between the clubs had reached the final stages Friday evening; Gordon Edes of ESPNBoston.com was the first to report that a deal was close.

The Red Sox are expected to include money in the deal, while also obtaining five players: top pitching prospect Allen Webster and first baseman James Loney, infielder Ivan DeJesus Jr., right-hander Rubby De La Rosa and outfielder Jerry Sands, all of whom had played for the Dodgers this season.

Boston?s primary motivation is salary relief. The Red Sox? playoff hopes have disappeared this month, making them more willing to trade veterans than they were at the July 31 non-waiver trade deadline.

After this season, Gonzalez is owed $109.3 million through 2017, Crawford $106.8 million through 2017, and Beckett $34 million through 2014 ? for a total of more than $250 million.

The Dodgers were awarded waiver claims on both Gonzalez and Beckett earlier in the day, according to a major league source.

The Dodgers had interest in Beckett before the non-waiver deadline. The move to a pitcher-friendly park in the National League might help him bounce back from another down year. Beckett is 5-11 with a 5.23 ERA in 21 starts this season.

The biggest question is the Red Sox's willingness to trade Gonzalez. A major league source said last week that the Red Sox would consider moving him only in a "transformative" ? or franchise-changing ? type of trade.

Teams generally prefer to move stars in the offseason, when they can involve more teams in discussions. But the Dodgers likely would be Gonzalez's most fervent suitor in the offseason as well, and the Red Sox may simply prefer to take advantage of their eagerness now.

Earlier this month, the Dodgers were awarded the claim to another high-priced player, Philadelphia Phillies left-hander Cliff Lee. The two sides, however, could not agree on a trade.

Gonzalez is hitting .300 with 15 homers and 86 RBI in 123 games with Boston.

[Falcon]

Here's a look at what the Sox have going on with possibilities moving forward:

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/24/where-would-the-red-sox-go-minus-gonzalez-beckett/

[tim_m]

Here's a look at what the Sox have going on with possibilities moving forward:

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/24/where-would-the-red-sox-go-minus-gonzalez-beckett/

This will set them up to be a major player in free agency this winter. Will they just make more stupid deals though?

[faldor]

Here's a look at what the Sox have going on with possibilities moving forward:

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/24/where-would-the-red-sox-go-minus-gonzalez-beckett/

This will set them up to be a major player in free agency this winter. Will they just make more stupid deals though?

It will be interesting to see what they do.  I hope they don't feel pressured to go spend money haphazardly.  We've seen that doesn't work very well.  I tend to think they'll be a little gun shy in doling out 20 million dollar multi year deals anytime soon.  The speculation is they want to return to the roots of building a team through player development and shorter term/money deals.  The way they built the 2004 World Series team.  Of course, having Pedro Martinez and Curt Schilling certainly helped that cause.  That's the main goal.  To somehow acquire good pitching.  I still haven't figured out how they're going to do that.  Until that happens, it doesn't matter who they get rid of.

I do like this as a start though.  Personnel wise, they got trade raped, but they NEEDED to shake things up.  We'll see what the final details are, but to be able to rid themselves of both Beckett's and Crawford's contract in one deal is simply amazing.  Start from scratch.  Gonzalez won't be easy to replace.  He was productive.  But I'll take my chances.  They were a .500 team for almost 2 years with him, so it's hard to argue they'll be much worse without him.

Ortiz is a free agent after this year, Ellsbury after next year.  I was in favor of them letting Ortiz walk until he got hurt and they got next to nothing from the DH spot with him out of the lineup.  Now throw in the loss of Gonzalez, you'd think they have to bring him back.  Unless they want to clean house completely.  Losing Ellsbury to free agency seemed like a forgone conclusion before today.  He would've been looking for Crawford like money, and it'd be tough to pay both of them in the OF on top of Gonzalez.  Now, he'd be back in play.  BUT, they place Ellsbury on waivers too, so who knows.  He also is a west coast guy who hasn't always seemed to enjoy his time in Boston, so he may flee for less to play elsewhere when the time comes.  Lester was also placed on waivers.  We'll see if there are any deals to follow.  Pedroia is locked up for a few more years.

Last night I would've told you Bobby V. should and would be fired immediately (following the season).  But there are small signs that they could possibly bring him back with each passing day.  Break up the fraternity so the players have a little less control and see if they actually listen to the manager.  Let Bobby be Bobby.  Let him hire his own staff.  See how that goes.  Or, the opposite way of thinking.  Let Ben Cherington hire HIS guy to manage the team, since Bobby wasn't his choice to begin with.  They have a lot of decisions to make on various fronts.

[tim_m]

Either way, it should be a very interesting offseason in bean town.

[AxlsMainMan]

Roger Clemens has signed with the Sugar Land Skeeters of the AL.

[tim_m]

The trade is now official.

[tim_m]

Now Aceves has been suspended 3 games by the sox for conduct detrimental to the team. He apparently stormed out of the managers office cause he didn't close yesterdays game.

[faldor]

Now Aceves has been suspended 3 games by the sox for conduct detrimental to the team. He apparently stormed out of the managers office cause he didn't close yesterdays game.

Is it too late to send him to LA?

I used to like Aceves, but he's been a bit of an ass this year.  Another one in the long line of excuse makers.  No one likes to take accountability on this team.  He was TERRIBLE the other night in blowing his 7th save of the season.  Andrew Bailey, who the team acquired in the off-season to be the closer, was given a chance to close the next night.  Makes perfect sense to me.  Not to Alfredo though.  The guy is great in the setup role, but it might be time to cut him loose as well.  NOBODY is safe.  Continue cleaning house long into the winter.  Yesterdays trade was a good start, but they're nowhere near done.

[Falcon]

Yesterdays trade was a good start, but they're nowhere near done.

Yesterdays trade was a great start, I caught a bit of Ben Cherington's presser - very impressive.

I'd love to see the Yankees counter by seeing if they could get the Dodgers to take on ARod's mammoth mistake contract..

Oh the irony...

[Falcon]

A lil old school baseball in Cincy today, Adam Wainwright just drilled Todd Frazier with 2 out and nobody on in obvious retaliation for David Freese getting hit earlier in the series.

Saw a bit of that Friday with CC and one going behind a Cleveland batter after Jeter got plunked in the helmet.

2 vet stars taking care of their own.

 

[tim_m]

A lil old school baseball in Cincy today, Adam Wainwright just drilled Todd Frazier with 2 out and nobody on in obvious retaliation for David Freese getting hit earlier in the series.

Saw a bit of that Friday with CC and one going behind a Cleveland batter after Jeter got plunked in the helmet.

2 vet stars taking care of their own.

 

The one from CC was absolutely deserved. I realize hitting Jeter in the helmet was unintentional, but you can't not stick up for your teammate and team leader after something like that.