2012 Baseball Season/Off-Season Discussion

[faldor]

Everyone's favorite reporter, Jon Heyman, tweeted this interesting tidbit yesterday.

@JonHeymanCBS

#mariners are 19-9 since trading ichiro. coincidence? doubtful. (#yankees are 15-14 btw)

[pilferk]

That leads me to believe the stiff shoulder is true. In that game i thought he was pitching pretty well until the 6th when he gave up the grand slam to Youkilis. He said that was the inning he felt it. So its not so far fetched to think he really stunk that inning cause of the medical issue.

ANNNNNDDDD...he's on the DL.

The speculation still is that the MRI was a formality and this was the Yanks way of shipping him off.  Maybe there is some soreness...but given the diagnosis, there are a bunch of pitchers/pundits saying: Well, yeah...because it's late August, and right after your start, you'd expect some inflamation in the rotator cuff/shoulder.

I'll be very surprised if we see Nova back before the September call ups.   And if Phelps pitches well...I'm not sure we'll see him make another start this year.

I'm OK with CC, Kuroda, Garcia, Phelps and Hughes as my starters for now.  Garcia has pitched well, Phelps has pitched REALLY well, Hughes has improved of late.  And don't forget: Andy is on the horizen.....and I don't think he's taking Garcia's spot in the rotation when he comes back.

Your playoff rotation (assuming: Everyone is healthy,  they make it to a Divisional Series, and actually need a rotation...which isn't a sure thing): CC, Kuroda, Pettite, Hughes with Garcia in the pen.  Nova wouldn't, at this point, make the playoff roster, anyway.

[pilferk]

Everyone's favorite reporter, Jon Heyman, tweeted this interesting tidbit yesterday.

@JonHeymanCBS

#mariners are 19-9 since trading ichiro. coincidence? doubtful. (#yankees are 15-14 btw)

Coincidence and schedule.

They're 13-0 vs KC, Toronto, the Twins, and the Indians.

They're 6-9 vs the Yanks, O's, Angels, and Rays (though they did play well against the Angels and Rays).

Yanks are 9-6 vs the M's, Red Sox and Jays.

They're 6-8 vs O's, Tigers, Rangers, and White Sox.

It also ignores the fact that the Yanks were 3-9 between July 19th and July 31st.

M's are 12-7 in Aug.

Yanks 12-9.

I don't think there's much of a case to be made losing Ichiro made them better (specifically their PITCHING better).  They've shaved about a quarter point off their team ERA..which was already low.  Their run production, BA, OB% etc don't look to be much different between the two time frames.

[Bodhi]

http://deadspin.com/5937438/mike-francesa-uncorked-an-all+timer-of-a-rant-on-the-collapsing-mets


Greatest rant by Mike Francesa of all time.  I thought he was going to have a heart attack.

[Falcon]

http://deadspin.com/5937438/mike-francesa-uncorked-an-all+timer-of-a-rant-on-the-collapsing-mets


Greatest rant by Mike Francesa of all time.  I thought he was going to have a heart attack.

I got about a minute into and had to bail, I used to enjoy Francesa when he was on CBS NFL pregame as an er...um.. "insider" - thoughtful, insightful stuff for the most part.

When did become full on NYC radio honk blow hard?

[Bodhi]

http://deadspin.com/5937438/mike-francesa-uncorked-an-all+timer-of-a-rant-on-the-collapsing-mets


Greatest rant by Mike Francesa of all time.  I thought he was going to have a heart attack.

I got about a minute into and had to bail, I used to enjoy Francesa when he was on CBS NFL pregame as an er...um.. "insider" - thoughtful, insightful stuff for the most part.

When did become full on NYC radio honk blow hard?

His NYC radio career is what he is really known for.  He has been doing it forever.  This was a really extreme case for him, I have never heard him lose it like that, it was hard to believe it was him at some points.  He was right about everything though.  He is usually dead on with his analysis on all sports,  definitely not a homer, calls it like it is.  I rarely have ever disagreed with him.

[GeorgeSteele]

http://deadspin.com/5937438/mike-francesa-uncorked-an-all+timer-of-a-rant-on-the-collapsing-mets


Greatest rant by Mike Francesa of all time.  I thought he was going to have a heart attack.

I got about a minute into and had to bail, I used to enjoy Francesa when he was on CBS NFL pregame as an er...um.. "insider" - thoughtful, insightful stuff for the most part.

When did become full on NYC radio honk blow hard?

His NYC radio career is what he is really known for.  He has been doing it forever.  This was a really extreme case for him, I have never heard him lose it like that, it was hard to believe it was him at some points.  He was right about everything though.

His job is to be a professional troll; so you have to give credit where credit is due --- he knows how to push Met fans buttons and I'm sure this completely staged and rehearsed monologue rant got the phones ringing off the hook.  How anyone falls for this stuff, I'll never understand.  Why would Francesa, who hates the Mets, get emotional because they suck?  Everyone knows that the protocol is to point and laugh.
     

[Bodhi]

He was emotional over the reaction of the Mets managers and players to getting swept by Colorado.  Anyone who takes sports semi seriously would be outraged by their reaction.  I mean it was really hilarious.  I'm not even a Met hater, honestly and I dont even mean this as an insult, but I don't even notice they are here.  With the Yankees here, who has time to really notice the Mets?  I'm not even trying to rip on the Mets by saying that, it is just the truth.  I know a lot of people don't like Francesa and 9 times out of 10 it is cause they are either a Mets, Jets or even worse a Mets and Jets fan, two inept franchises that Francesa likes to poke fun at.  Why wouldn't he?  They make it so easy.  Their fan base also are always calling into his show, so they ask for it.

[pilferk]

http://deadspin.com/5937438/mike-francesa-uncorked-an-all+timer-of-a-rant-on-the-collapsing-mets


Greatest rant by Mike Francesa of all time.  I thought he was going to have a heart attack.

I got about a minute into and had to bail, I used to enjoy Francesa when he was on CBS NFL pregame as an er...um.. "insider" - thoughtful, insightful stuff for the most part.

When did become full on NYC radio honk blow hard?

I believe his 25th anniversary is either right around the corner, or just happened within the past couple months.

[LongGoneDay]

The RedSox streak of brain dead moves is rumored to be going strong.
They are considering trading away one of the best hitters/defensive 1B in MLB.
Interesting strategy. Trade the good players, keep the busts..

http://espn.go.com/boston/mlb/story/_/id/8300112/boston-red-sox-adrian-gonzalez-headed-los-angeles-dodgers-sources-say

[Falcon]

With the Yankees here, who has time to really notice the Mets? 

Believe me (no offense George) that's exactly how the rest of the country sees it.

Beyond the Rex Ryan/Tebow goofyness (and for Broadway Joe thank God) the Jets are a non entity well.  One of our long time sports anchors here is a Yanks/Giants fan born and raised in NYC - he snickers when he mentions the Mets/Jets at any opportunity - and this is in middle America. 

One question for fans of either - isn't the rule Yankees/Giants fan or Mets/Jets fan with disdain for cross breeders?

Although I think the goofball Eddie (Tesla Rocks!!!) Trunk is Mets/Giants cross breeder - imagine that...

[GeorgeSteele]

He was emotional over the reaction of the Mets managers and players to getting swept by Colorado.  Anyone who takes sports semi seriously would be outraged by their reaction. 

Really?  That's something to get outraged about?  Even when it's a team you're not a fan of?  Guess I'm glad I don't take sports seriously. 

even worse a Mets and Jets fan, two inept franchises that Francesa likes to poke fun at.

Well, you just identified the whole point of him bringing the Jets into his little 'rant'.  It's his whole 'winners' picking on 'losers' schtick, a very pathetic high school routine that is very sad to see come from a guy in his 60s. 

[GeorgeSteele]

With the Yankees here, who has time to really notice the Mets? 

Believe me (no offense George) that's exactly how the rest of the country sees it.

None taken, <cough - gotohell - cough>.  Seriously, of course that's the case, the Yankees are a global brand that transcend baseball, even sports.  The Mets are not.  I just feel sorry for Yankee fans like Francesa who can't be satisfied by the franchise's successes on their own merits, they need to frame them next to the Mets' failures.   Fortunately, those kinds of Yankee fans are in the minority, but unfortunately, they tend to be the loudest.

[faldor]

The RedSox streak of brain dead moves is rumored to be going strong.
They are considering trading away one of the best hitters/defensive 1B in MLB.
Interesting strategy. Trade the good players, keep the busts..

http://espn.go.com/boston/mlb/story/_/id/8300112/boston-red-sox-adrian-gonzalez-headed-los-angeles-dodgers-sources-say

I think they're just gauging interest at this point.  They supposedly had discussions with the Dodgers about Gonzalez before the deadline.  They're not going to just let him walk for nothing, so there's no harm in seeing what they could get in return for ANYONE.  Apparently a team also claimed Beckett, and that team may also have been the Dodgers.  If you could get rid of Beckett only by including Gonzalez you'd have to think about it.  That's 35+ million off the books for next year alone, not to mention the duration of Adrian's contract.  They could find ways to use that money to match the production of those 2 combined, if not exceed it.  They have to do something drastic to shake things up.  Adrian is obviously a good player, but he has yet to play up to the level that was expected.  The Sox aren't paying him a million dollars per home run, at least that wasn't the plan.  Not that it's his fault, but he was on some pretty bad teams with the Padres, and now with the Red Sox.  He's been a part of 2 huge September collapses with each team.  He complained about all the prime time games the Sox had to play last season, as if that had something to do with his/the teams poor performance down the stretch.  I'm not sure he's wired to play in Boston.  At least he hasn't proven it to me to this point.  

[tim_m]

That leads me to believe the stiff shoulder is true. In that game i thought he was pitching pretty well until the 6th when he gave up the grand slam to Youkilis. He said that was the inning he felt it. So its not so far fetched to think he really stunk that inning cause of the medical issue.

ANNNNNDDDD...he's on the DL.

The speculation still is that the MRI was a formality and this was the Yanks way of shipping him off.  Maybe there is some soreness...but given the diagnosis, there are a bunch of pitchers/pundits saying: Well, yeah...because it's late August, and right after your start, you'd expect some inflamation in the rotator cuff/shoulder.

I'll be very surprised if we see Nova back before the September call ups.   And if Phelps pitches well...I'm not sure we'll see him make another start this year.

I'm OK with CC, Kuroda, Garcia, Phelps and Hughes as my starters for now.  Garcia has pitched well, Phelps has pitched REALLY well, Hughes has improved of late.  And don't forget: Andy is on the horizen.....and I don't think he's taking Garcia's spot in the rotation when he comes back.

Your playoff rotation (assuming: Everyone is healthy,  they make it to a Divisional Series, and actually need a rotation...which isn't a sure thing): CC, Kuroda, Pettite, Hughes with Garcia in the pen.  Nova wouldn't, at this point, make the playoff roster, anyway.

I'm ok with that rotation for now as well. Nova maybe should start doing what Hughes has, talk to Andy learn from Andy. I don't think itsi a coincidence that Hughes turned it around when Andy rejoined the team after extended spring training. Asking Rivera to show him the cutter like Robertson did wouldn't be a bad idea either. Hughes has been much better the last few. His last start was really good just couldn't get the runs and the start before was really good. The 4 runs were unearned from his throwing error that would've ended the inning.

[faldor]

File this away in the "No way in hell it happens" folder, but to think they're even discussing it.  Shocking.

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/mlb-rumors/19896921/report-dodgers-win-waiver-claim-on-adrian-gonzalez

UPDATE (5:25 PM ET): ESPNBoston.com's Gordon Edes Tweets that the two teams are working on a trade that involves sending Adrian Gonzalez, Carl Crawford, Josh Beckett and Nick Punto to Los Angeles.

The Los Angeles Dodgers have been awarded the waiver claim on Boston Red Sox first baseman Adrian Gonzalez, Bill Shaikin of The Los Angeles Times reported Friday. The report has been confirmed by CBSSports.com insider Jon Heyman.

The Dodgers' claim of Gonzalez would be the first step in a potential trade sending the star first baseman to Los Angeles. The Times mentioned a potential deal that would also involve Josh Beckett and Carl Crawford heading to Los Angeles for multiple top prospects.

Even with the first step completed, the deal is far from complete. The Dodgers would be taking on $253 million in salary, an absurd sum even considering the clear willingness of new ownership to spend, all while giving up loads of future value. The Red Sox have the rights, if a trade is not completed within the next 48-72 hours, to either pull Gonzalez back or allow him (and his contract) to go to the Dodgers.

But hey, it would be fun, right?

[faldor]

http://deadspin.com/5937438/mike-francesa-uncorked-an-all+timer-of-a-rant-on-the-collapsing-mets


Greatest rant by Mike Francesa of all time.  I thought he was going to have a heart attack.

I haven't been following the Mets, or any baseball much of late because of my own teams epic failures.  This same rant though could easily be directed at the Red Sox.  Similar story lines, at least ON the field.  Off the field there's still no comparison.

[LongGoneDay]

The RedSox streak of brain dead moves is rumored to be going strong.
They are considering trading away one of the best hitters/defensive 1B in MLB.
Interesting strategy. Trade the good players, keep the busts..

http://espn.go.com/boston/mlb/story/_/id/8300112/boston-red-sox-adrian-gonzalez-headed-los-angeles-dodgers-sources-say

I think they're just gauging interest at this point.  They supposedly had discussions with the Dodgers about Gonzalez before the deadline.  They're not going to just let him walk for nothing, so there's no harm in seeing what they could get in return for ANYONE.  Apparently a team also claimed Beckett, and that team may also have been the Dodgers.  If you could get rid of Beckett only by including Gonzalez you'd have to think about it.  That's 35+ million off the books for next year alone, not to mention the duration of Adrian's contract.  They could find ways to use that money to match the production of those 2 combined, if not exceed it.  They have to do something drastic to shake things up.  Adrian is obviously a good player, but he has yet to play up to the level that was expected.  The Sox aren't paying him a million dollars per home run, at least that wasn't the plan.  Not that it's his fault, but he was on some pretty bad teams with the Padres, and now with the Red Sox.  He's been a part of 2 huge September collapses with each team.  He complained about all the prime time games the Sox had to play last season, as if that had something to do with his/the teams poor performance down the stretch.  I'm not sure he's wired to play in Boston.  At least he hasn't proven it to me to this point.  

I think he proved he was wired for Boston when he hit .338 with 27 homers and 117 RBI in year one.
His power numbers will come back around, he's still young, and that swing will age well.

[Falcon]

faldor, this could be the best thing could possibly happen to the Sox, absolute genious move it it works out.

And from a Dodger standpoint, maybe the worst move since they signed Eric Davis and Daryl Srawberry.

Hilarious.

[Falcon]

With the Yankees here, who has time to really notice the Mets? 

Believe me (no offense George) that's exactly how the rest of the country sees it.

None taken, <cough - gotohell - cough>.  Seriously, of course that's the case, the Yankees are a global brand that transcend baseball, even sports.  The Mets are not.  I just feel sorry for Yankee fans like Francesa who can't be satisfied by the franchise's successes on their own merits, they need to frame them next to the Mets' failures.   Fortunately, those kinds of Yankee fans are in the minority, but unfortunately, they tend to be the loudest.

I had no idea Francesa was a Yankee guy, kinda renders the rant even more mindless.

Sounds like he's the type who enjoys a Mets loss more than he does a Yankee win.