2012 Baseball Season/Off-Season Discussion

[AxlsMainMan]

Johnny Damon to the Cleveland Indians.

[tim_m]

15 straight wins now for Ivan Nova, is this kid ever gonna lose a game? He's not just winning cause the yankees are scoring a ton of runs he's winning cause he's pitching great.

[tim_m]

How bad are things for the sox when you blow a 9-0 lead from the 8th inning on.

[pilferk]

How bad are things for the sox when you blow a 9-0 lead from the 8th inning on.

Sox butthurt at maximum, right now.

First Yanks spoil the 100 anniversary party, then refuse to lay down after being down by 9.  I imagine the Sox are feeling like the new Fish in prison who just dropped the soap. Ouch.

Their bullpen looked horrid. Melancon already sent down. They are sort of stuck with Aceves right now...but he looks awful far more than not.  No options left for him....so they keep him or dfa him.

The Byrd trade, to me, means they think Ellsbury is gone for awhile.

[faldor]

How bad are things for the sox when you blow a 9-0 lead from the 8th inning on.

Sox butthurt at maximum, right now.

First Yanks spoil the 100 anniversary party, then refuse to lay down after being down by 9.  I imagine the Sox are feeling like the new Fish in prison who just dropped the soap. Ouch.

Their bullpen looked horrid. Melancon already sent down. They are sort of stuck with Aceves right now...but he looks awful far more than not.  No options left for him....so they keep him or dfa him.

The Byrd trade, to me, means they think Ellsbury is gone for awhile.

Apparently a change in culture (Tito to Bobby V) isn't what the doctor ordered.  And apparently they're closer to the team they were in April/September of last year than the rest of the season.

Aceves had actually been pitching better of late, not sure what happened yesterday.  Luckily I missed most of it.  I checked the score off and on and things just kept getting worse.  Yanks won that game going away.  I feel kind of bad for Bobby V at this point.  I mean, what could he do differently?  The pitching has just been horrendous.  You can't really blame that on him.

I think the Marlon Byrd deal is simply a move to add depth.  Jason Repko got banged up the other day making that spectacular catch in CF.  But Repko is a fringe major league player at best.  And they had Nate Spears on the roster, who isn't exactly on his way to Cooperstown.  Their bench is as thin as it gets.  Byrd makes them deeper, which is saying a lot because he's not all that great either.  The injuries to Crawford and Ellsbury have made Ross and Sweeney into every day players pretty much.  And while they're filling in admirably, that wasn't the plan to start the season.

[pilferk]

Apparently a change in culture (Tito to Bobby V) isn't what the doctor ordered.  And apparently they're closer to the team they were in April/September of last year than the rest of the season.

Honestly, I don't think it can be ignored that they haven't won one since Bobby V spouted off about Youk.  3 game winning streak to this.  MAYBE they're not related, but it seems like an awful big coincidence.  I don't care WHAT Bobby V's backpedal about Youks swing was (nonsensical as his explanation was)....I don't care WHAT the clubhouse (ie: Pedroia and Youk) SAID about the "apology"....I think it hurt Bobby's ability to motivate, and his credibility amongst, the players.

Aceves had actually been pitching better of late, not sure what happened yesterday.

He'd pitched pretty well the previous 2 outings that I'd seen...but he's now staring at an ERA in the upper 20's, I think.  Even though it's early...that's not what you want from your closer.

  Luckily I missed most of it.  I checked the score off and on and things just kept getting worse.  Yanks won that game going away.  I feel kind of bad for Bobby V at this point.  I mean, what could he do differently?  The pitching has just been horrendous.  You can't really blame that on him.

Yes and no.  He made the moves he could make.  I'm OK with that.  HOWEVER, in his post game comments...he emphatically pointed that out (when talking about being booed by the crowd), as if to say: Don't blame me, blame the players.  I think that's a problem....and I wonder if the players feel like they were thrown under the bus.  Right or not...I'm not sure that's what I want my manager saying in the post game press conference.  There's, maybe, a more diplomatic, more "having the players backs" way to say it than "I made all the right decisions, they just didn't work out".  Especially when specifically talking about the crowd reaction to him.

Also...he could have left his starter in for one more inning, maybe.  Guy was under 100 pitches, and had been pretty efficient during the game.  One dinger to Tex does not mean he's gassed.....Not sure it would have made a difference..but it IS a point that not EVERY decision he made was unassailable.

I think the Marlon Byrd deal is simply a move to add depth.  Jason Repko got banged up the other day making that spectacular catch in CF.  But Repko is a fringe major league player at best.  And they had Nate Spears on the roster, who isn't exactly on his way to Cooperstown.  Their bench is as thin as it gets.  Byrd makes them deeper, which is saying a lot because he's not all that great either.  The injuries to Crawford and Ellsbury have made Ross and Sweeney into every day players pretty much.  And while they're filling in admirably, that wasn't the plan to start the season.

Agree with ALL that.  However, I think if you suspect Ellsbury will be back, and ready to go, in another 19-ish days.....you've got your everyday CF and don't need to look for much more depth than you had there.   Unless they're thinking about putting Byrd in LF for awhile (because Crawford is further away than has been reported), and using him to occasionally spell Ellsbury when he gets back in CF.  I can see that plan, maybe.  But bringing Byrd in, just to ride the pine were Ellsbury coming back in a week?  Nope, doesn't make sense to me....even if they're only picking up 3+ million of his salary this year.

Again, I suspect this means they're thinking Ellsbury's going to be out closer to the 8 weeks (and maybe longer) than to the 4 weeks in the timetable I've seen quoted.

[pilferk]

Game tonight rained out.

How about the perfect game yesterday!  I was actually OK with Fox switching coverage...bunches of Yanks fans were bitching about it.  I can live with missing the Swish Grand Salami (that sounds so wrong) to see the end of that game!

Last note: Pineada now looking like he's on the shelf til at LEAST the AS break...and that's if the MRI tomorrow comes back clean (which I'm thinking is unlikely).

[faldor]

Again, I suspect this means they're thinking Ellsbury's going to be out closer to the 8 weeks (and maybe longer) than to the 4 weeks in the timetable I've seen quoted.

Oh, I think Ellsbury will be out for some time.  I hadn't heard the 4 week timetable.  I heard 6-8, so that's what I was expecting.  Of course it could even be longer.

And it looks like Daniel Bard will be skipped this time around in the rotation due to the rainout and used out of the bullpen "for now".  I don't know if that's the magic answer to cure all the bullpen woes, but if it does right the ship in the meantime you'd think he might end up staying there and the starting experiment might have to wait awhile.  Again though, I'm not convinced adding Bard to that god awful bullpen will make everything perfect.  Aaron Cook is pitching well in AAA, and they have to make a decision on what to do with him by the end of the month, so he could always be called upon to fill in as the 5th starter.  And Dice K should be back sometime in early June as well.  Not that I'm banking on either of those guys, but they are options if the decision is to return Bard to the pen.

[pilferk]

Oh, I think Ellsbury will be out for some time.  I hadn't heard the 4 week timetable.  I heard 6-8, so that's what I was expecting.  Of course it could even be longer.

And it looks like Daniel Bard will be skipped this time around in the rotation due to the rainout and used out of the bullpen "for now".  I don't know if that's the magic answer to cure all the bullpen woes, but if it does right the ship in the meantime you'd think he might end up staying there and the starting experiment might have to wait awhile.  Again though, I'm not convinced adding Bard to that god awful bullpen will make everything perfect.  Aaron Cook is pitching well in AAA, and they have to make a decision on what to do with him by the end of the month, so he could always be called upon to fill in as the 5th starter.  And Dice K should be back sometime in early June as well.  Not that I'm banking on either of those guys, but they are options if the decision is to return Bard to the pen.

I just read that Bard is only being skipped this once and is still going to make his start on Friday?

Not a Boston news source...so maybe they know better.   Do you know/Have you heard, either way?

[faldor]

Oh, I think Ellsbury will be out for some time.  I hadn't heard the 4 week timetable.  I heard 6-8, so that's what I was expecting.  Of course it could even be longer.

And it looks like Daniel Bard will be skipped this time around in the rotation due to the rainout and used out of the bullpen "for now".  I don't know if that's the magic answer to cure all the bullpen woes, but if it does right the ship in the meantime you'd think he might end up staying there and the starting experiment might have to wait awhile.  Again though, I'm not convinced adding Bard to that god awful bullpen will make everything perfect.  Aaron Cook is pitching well in AAA, and they have to make a decision on what to do with him by the end of the month, so he could always be called upon to fill in as the 5th starter.  And Dice K should be back sometime in early June as well.  Not that I'm banking on either of those guys, but they are options if the decision is to return Bard to the pen.

I just read that Bard is only being skipped this once and is still going to make his start on Friday?

Not a Boston news source...so maybe they know better.   Do you know/Have you heard, either way?

That is the plan.  They seem committed to keeping him in the starting role.  They do have other options though, so if he does pitch well in relief you'd have to wonder if plans could change.  In essence then, you'd think he'd only be available out of the pen for tonight and tomorrow, maybe Wed. as well.  He's done alright as a starter so far, but what does it matter when the bullpen is so bad?  Maybe they should start using all of their starters in the bullpen on their "off days" just so they can get some work in.  Because what they're doing right now surely isn't working.

[pilferk]

That is the plan.  They seem committed to keeping him in the starting role.  They do have other options though, so if he does pitch well in relief you'd have to wonder if plans could change.  In essence then, you'd think he'd only be available out of the pen for tonight and tomorrow, maybe Wed. as well.  He's done alright as a starter so far, but what does it matter when the bullpen is so bad?  Maybe they should start using all of their starters in the bullpen on their "off days" just so they can get some work in.  Because what they're doing right now surely isn't working.

I'm just not sure who they slot into that spot in the rotation that is as effective.

I mean..sure, his first start was wobbly...but his second was stellar, marred only by walking in that run (and I still say Bobby V left him too long).

Who do you plunk into the 5 hole that is as effective?

And ONE guy, in the pen, isn't going to mask the issues with the middle/late relief guys.  He might have more influence...he'll play more than once every 5 days.  But if the starting pitching stinks....how valuable is an effective late inning/closer type?

Hell...maybe you let BARD start and move BUCHHOLZ or Beckett to the pen (I know...crazy talk).

The good news is:  They head to Minnesota for a series.  You'd THINK that would help a bit, all things considered.

[faldor]

I think Bard is the best option for the back end of the rotation AND the bullpen. I guess you have to factor in which is more important. All I know is things haven't gone well so far. So I don't think a change can hurt. Aaron Cook would be the top option to take Bard's spot in the rotation and they have to make a decision on him by the end of the month. Now I realize Cook is nothing special, but he'd be the option. And Dice K should be ready to rehab soon, and they'd need to make a move with him after a month. I think Bard will wnd up in the bullpen sometime this year, because I don't think they'll want to overextend him with his innings in his first year as a starter. The question is, when is that move made? It seems too early to abandon ship right now, but drastic times call for desperate measures.

[Falcon]

Pudge Rodriguez threw out the first pitch tonight in Texas in honor of his recent retirement announcement, with a twist..

This is cool, watch here:

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=20859403&topic_id=&c_id=tex&v=3&tcid=tw_video_20859403

[GeorgeSteele]

That was an outstanding performance by Darvish last night, shutting down a red-hot Yankee lineup (though Jeter continued his tear).  Will be interesting to see how Darvish holds up all year.  After watching him, the stuff is there, no doubt about it.  But the cultural transition has been a problem for almost every Japanese player, so time will tell how he navigates that.

[faldor]

That was an outstanding performance by Darvish last night, shutting down a red-hot Yankee lineup (though Jeter continued his tear).  Will be interesting to see how Darvish holds up all year.  After watching him, the stuff is there, no doubt about it.  But the cultural transition has been a problem for almost every Japanese player, so time will tell how he navigates that.

The Rangers could use Darvish stepping up and becoming the ace of that staff.  He looked like it last night, but that's only one game.  As great as the Rangers are, and they appear to be GREAT, they don't really have an ace.  They have a bunch of #2 and #3 starters, so depth wise they're very solid, but they don't have that one shut down ace pitcher.  As good as Colby Lewis has been, I don't think he's an ace.  Darvish could be that guy, and if he is, this could be the year for them.

[pilferk]

That was an outstanding performance by Darvish last night, shutting down a red-hot Yankee lineup (though Jeter continued his tear).  Will be interesting to see how Darvish holds up all year.  After watching him, the stuff is there, no doubt about it.  But the cultural transition has been a problem for almost every Japanese player, so time will tell how he navigates that.

See...I wasn't impressed with the "stuff".  Plus fastball (4 seamer), but his 12/6 curve, his 2/8 curve/slurve, his cut fastball, his slider, his changeup, and his splitter/2 seamer all looked average.  Yanks chased a LOT of pitches, last night, too.

What gets you is the variety, though.  He'll throw any pitch in any count and for strikes.  He doesn't have (at least with the small sample size we have) any set patterns...and his catcher is calling a very good game, taking advantage of that.  It's tough on hitter when there are 7 different pitches the guy can throw for strikes....THAT'S what made him effective, last night, IMHO.

Also, keep in mind...the Yanks SUCK against pitchers they've never seen before.  I don't know what it is about them...but the first time they see a guy, even if everyone else in the league has pounded him, they can't hit him.

It'll be interesting to see what happens the next time the Yanks face him.  It'll also be interesting to see how he holds up going every 5th day, rather than once a week like he did in Japan.  There's a big difference between 4 days off and 6 days off between starts.

[pilferk]

Crawfords elbow still sore.  Going to See Dr. James Andrews, soon.

Pineada got MRI yesterday...but won't let Yankees release info until he gets a second opinion....which they're getting today.  THAT does not sound good.

[faldor]

Crawfords elbow still sore.  Going to See Dr. James Andrews, soon.

Pineada got MRI yesterday...but won't let Yankees release info until he gets a second opinion....which they're getting today.  THAT does not sound good.

Yeah, doesn't sound too good with Crawford either.  Maybe the deal for Byrd was in fact more of a long term thing than I originally thought.  Crawford was supposed to be ready to go in early May.  Right now, that's not looking very likely.  And I'd expect Ellsbury to be out at least another month.

I know you were weary of the Pineda deal from the start.  Kind of looked too good to be true.  So far it's trending in that direction.  At least Montero isn't tearing it up in Seattle.

[GeorgeSteele]

See...I wasn't impressed with the "stuff".  Plus fastball (4 seamer), but his 12/6 curve, his 2/8 curve/slurve, his cut fastball, his slider, his changeup, and his splitter/2 seamer all looked average.  Yanks chased a LOT of pitches, last night, too.

What gets you is the variety, though.  He'll throw any pitch in any count and for strikes.  He doesn't have (at least with the small sample size we have) any set patterns...and his catcher is calling a very good game, taking advantage of that.  It's tough on hitter when there are 7 different pitches the guy can throw for strikes....THAT'S what made him effective, last night, IMHO.

Also, keep in mind...the Yanks SUCK against pitchers they've never seen before.  I don't know what it is about them...but the first time they see a guy, even if everyone else in the league has pounded him, they can't hit him.

It'll be interesting to see what happens the next time the Yanks face him.  It'll also be interesting to see how he holds up going every 5th day, rather than once a week like he did in Japan.  There's a big difference between 4 days off and 6 days off between starts.

In addition to the pitch variety, the change in speeds from the 97mph fastball to the secondary pitches kept them way off balance.  Also, he was good at getting his breaking pitches to break late.   

[pilferk]

In addition to the pitch variety, the change in speeds from the 97mph fastball to the secondary pitches kept them way off balance.  Also, he was good at getting his breaking pitches to break late.   

Both true....25 to 30 mph difference on his curve and change...10 to 15 on some other stuff (his "slurve"). 

WITHOUT the variety (if, say, he was a typical 3 pitch starter), though, I think he's hittable.  None of his stuff was amazing...and he had some control issues early.  But being able to keep hitters off balance like that makes him tougher.

Basically: Low "nastiness" factor, but a reasonably high degree of difficulty.