2012 Baseball Season/Off-Season Discussion

[Falcon]

The sky is falling in NY and Boston.....

I think Nova will get the Yanks back on track tonight, the guy gets outs.

Not sure about Boston, the jury maybe out on that group a while longer.

[faldor]

The sky is falling in NY and Boston.....

I think Nova will get the Yanks back on track tonight, the guy gets outs.

Not sure about Boston, the jury maybe out on that group a while longer.

Yeah, I'd be less worried about the Yanks.  In the overall scheme of things, both the Yanks and Sox lost to very good teams on the road.  The Yanks got not so great pitching from CC and Kuroda.  They will both have better days, although I'm still not sold on Kuroda making the transition to the AL East.

The Red Sox bullpen is more of a mess than I could've ever imagined.  I guess it's too early to hit the panic button just yet, but you can't blow multi run leads in the late innings TWICE in one game.  I secretly suspect Bobby Valentine hopes Bard struggles in his first start so he has an excuse to make him the closer.  Oh, and I can't let Beckett or Buchholz off the hook.  Neither of them were good at all over the weekend.  So yeah, the Sox are on a lot shakier ground at this point.

[pilferk]

Yeah, I'd be less worried about the Yanks.  In the overall scheme of things, both the Yanks and Sox lost to very good teams on the road.  The Yanks got not so great pitching from CC and Kuroda.  They will both have better days, although I'm still not sold on Kuroda making the transition to the AL East.

CC was atrocious...which, given his historic spring numbers doesn't surprise me.  Even with that...he wasn't a factor in the outcome.  Yanks take a one run lead into the 9th and the blue moon suddenly appears with Mo blowing the save.  That loss stings less because, unless Mo has lost it (doubtful, IMHO)...it's not something you're going to see that often.

Kuroda went almost 6, and gave up 4 earned.  His line looks worse because Nunez made a horrible error that cost the Yanks 2 runs.  If Kuroda can, consistently, go 6 and give up between 3 and 4 runs...I can live with that.  It's not stellar, and I'd hope for better, but I can live with it.  That SHOULD, given the Yanks offense, keep them in games.  My only real complaint is he tried to "nibble" too much at the edges.  That doesn't tend to work out well in the AL East.

YESTERDAY pissed me off....because the Yanks swung at bad (obviously bad) pitches all day long.  Their plate discipline completely disappeared, and so did their ability to situationally hit.  They started to press in the 2nd inning.  I watched guys swinging at balls not even CLOSE to the strikezone.  Cano swung at a pitch, late in the game, that would have BOUNCED either just in front of, or right ON the front of, home plate (hitting a weak chopper).  That was indicative of the Yanks hitters all day long.  They bailed the Rays out on a day when, while not efficient, Hughes was perfectly effective (and would have had an even better line had Ibanez not tried to dive in RF...that was a horrid play!) and the bullpen did it's job.

I'm DON'T think the sky is falling (for either club).  It's only 3 games.  Only yesterday's loss really annoyed me.

The Red Sox bullpen is more of a mess than I could've ever imagined.  I guess it's too early to hit the panic button just yet, but you can't blow multi run leads in the late innings TWICE in one game.  I secretly suspect Bobby Valentine hopes Bard struggles in his first start so he has an excuse to make him the closer.  Oh, and I can't let Beckett or Buchholz off the hook.  Neither of them were good at all over the weekend.  So yeah, the Sox are on a lot shakier ground at this point.

Melancon looks like the guy the Yanks got rid of.

Aceves doesn't look like the guy from last year (or his healthy days with the Yanks).  Think he's smarting from not getting the rotation slot?

[GeorgeSteele]

Wouldn't worry about the Yanks or Sox either, but the only non-flukish thing about their 0-3 starts are the teams that swept them.  Detroit and Tampa Bay are both very good teams, each of which I expect to be contending in September.
 
As for the Undefeated Mets, good times with this franchise are in short supply these days, so I'll take 'em when I can get 'em, however short-lived they may be.   

[tim_m]

The sky is falling in NY and Boston.....

I think Nova will get the Yanks back on track tonight, the guy gets outs.

Not sure about Boston, the jury maybe out on that group a while longer.

I'm a little concerned with Nova, he had a horrible spring. Hopefully it doesn't carry over into the season. We'll see.

[tim_m]

Yeah, I'd be less worried about the Yanks.  In the overall scheme of things, both the Yanks and Sox lost to very good teams on the road.  The Yanks got not so great pitching from CC and Kuroda.  They will both have better days, although I'm still not sold on Kuroda making the transition to the AL East.

CC was atrocious...which, given his historic spring numbers doesn't surprise me.  Even with that...he wasn't a factor in the outcome.  Yanks take a one run lead into the 9th and the blue moon suddenly appears with Mo blowing the save.  That loss stings less because, unless Mo has lost it (doubtful, IMHO)...it's not something you're going to see that often.

Kuroda went almost 6, and gave up 4 earned.  His line looks worse because Nunez made a horrible error that cost the Yanks 2 runs.  If Kuroda can, consistently, go 6 and give up between 3 and 4 runs...I can live with that.  It's not stellar, and I'd hope for better, but I can live with it.  That SHOULD, given the Yanks offense, keep them in games.  My only real complaint is he tried to "nibble" too much at the edges.  That doesn't tend to work out well in the AL East.

YESTERDAY pissed me off....because the Yanks swung at bad (obviously bad) pitches all day long.  Their plate discipline completely disappeared, and so did their ability to situationally hit.  They started to press in the 2nd inning.  I watched guys swinging at balls not even CLOSE to the strikezone.  Cano swung at a pitch, late in the game, that would have BOUNCED either just in front of, or right ON the front of, home plate (hitting a weak chopper).  That was indicative of the Yanks hitters all day long.  They bailed the Rays out on a day when, while not efficient, Hughes was perfectly effective (and would have had an even better line had Ibanez not tried to dive in RF...that was a horrid play!) and the bullpen did it's job.

I'm DON'T think the sky is falling (for either club).  It's only 3 games.  Only yesterday's loss really annoyed me.

The Red Sox bullpen is more of a mess than I could've ever imagined.  I guess it's too early to hit the panic button just yet, but you can't blow multi run leads in the late innings TWICE in one game.  I secretly suspect Bobby Valentine hopes Bard struggles in his first start so he has an excuse to make him the closer.  Oh, and I can't let Beckett or Buchholz off the hook.  Neither of them were good at all over the weekend.  So yeah, the Sox are on a lot shakier ground at this point.

Melancon looks like the guy the Yanks got rid of.

Aceves doesn't look like the guy from last year (or his healthy days with the Yanks).  Think he's smarting from not getting the rotation slot?

One positive we can take from last night is Hughes. He looked very good. His change up was excellent. He just needs a little better command with the fastball to make the change more effective but he made progress from last year.

[faldor]

Melancon looks like the guy the Yanks got rid of.

Aceves doesn't look like the guy from last year (or his healthy days with the Yanks).  Think he's smarting from not getting the rotation slot?

I think Aceves was clearly displeased with losing out on a rotation spot.  He had his heart set on being a starter.  Unfortunately, with the state of affairs in the Sox bullpen there was no way they could afford to convert both Aceves and Bard into starters.  It was a case of one or the other, and I think Bard has the higher ceiling.  So I can understand Aceves being a little upset about another year in the bullpen.  BUT, once Bailey went down and he was given the closer role, I'd assume that would be a pretty good consolation prize.  I mean, it's a step up from the middle relief role and a chance for him to show he's even more versatile. 

He just couldn't get any Tigers out over the weekend.  His stuff looked pretty good.  He was hitting 95, 96 on the gun.  I think he may have been relying on the fastball too much though.  Maybe thinking that's what a closer needs to do.  Go out there and throw gas.  Tonight he mixed up his pitches a lot better and worked a 1-2-3 ninth, albeit against a much weaker portion of the lineup.  No Miguel Cabrera, Prince Fielder, or Jose Bautista to deal with.  A step in the right direction, something he can hopefully build off of and gain some confidence.

Now Red Sox fans and the media alike can take a deep breath and exhale.  I can only imagine the madness if Aceves blew another save with Bard taking the hill tomorrow.  Let's not forget, as great as Bard was for the majority of last season, he was one of many that was bad in September.  Aceves was hands down their best reliever at the end of last season.  How quickly some forget.  That's the Boston media for you though, and impatient Sox fans to boot.

[pilferk]

I'm a little concerned with Nova, he had a horrible spring. Hopefully it doesn't carry over into the season. We'll see.

I'll take last night's start 29 more times from him, as the Yanks #4.

I can live with the hits if he doesn't walk anyone.  And his stuff looked nasty, with a lot of late movement on his fastball.

The one concern is:  He ended up being a 2 pitch pitcher last night (after his changeup got turned around out of the park).  Didn't really throw many changeups or sliders.  He can't do THAT the rest of the season...though I'm OK with it if those pitches just weren't working last night, and reappear his next start.

[pilferk]

I think Aceves was clearly displeased with losing out on a rotation spot.  He had his heart set on being a starter.  Unfortunately, with the state of affairs in the Sox bullpen there was no way they could afford to convert both Aceves and Bard into starters.  It was a case of one or the other, and I think Bard has the higher ceiling.  So I can understand Aceves being a little upset about another year in the bullpen.  BUT, once Bailey went down and he was given the closer role, I'd assume that would be a pretty good consolation prize.  I mean, it's a step up from the middle relief role and a chance for him to show he's even more versatile. 


He just couldn't get any Tigers out over the weekend.  His stuff looked pretty good.  He was hitting 95, 96 on the gun.  I think he may have been relying on the fastball too much though.  Maybe thinking that's what a closer needs to do.  Go out there and throw gas.  Tonight he mixed up his pitches a lot better and worked a 1-2-3 ninth, albeit against a much weaker portion of the lineup.  No Miguel Cabrera, Prince Fielder, or Jose Bautista to deal with.  A step in the right direction, something he can hopefully build off of and gain some confidence.

Yanks game ended just as the Sox game went into the bottom of the 9th so I flipped over to watch Ace pitch.

He looked fine last night....pretty much "normal".  Fastball wasn't flat and his secondary pitches looked good. 

[Loaded NightraiN]

Yanks, Sox, and Giants...all 0-3 to start the season.


The sky is falling in NY and Boston.....

Last time the Yanks started 0-3 they won the fall classic 

[cotis]

Yanks, Sox, and Giants...all 0-3 to start the season.


The sky is falling in NY and Boston.....

Last time the Yanks started 0-3 they won the fall classic 

andd 114 games...

[tim_m]

I'm a little concerned with Nova, he had a horrible spring. Hopefully it doesn't carry over into the season. We'll see.

I'll take last night's start 29 more times from him, as the Yanks #4.

I can live with the hits if he doesn't walk anyone.  And his stuff looked nasty, with a lot of late movement on his fastball.

The one concern is:  He ended up being a 2 pitch pitcher last night (after his changeup got turned around out of the park).  Didn't really throw many changeups or sliders.  He can't do THAT the rest of the season...though I'm OK with it if those pitches just weren't working last night, and reappear his next start.

He looked really good last night. Not sure what his issue in spring training was but hopefully he can continue to build on last night.

[pilferk]

Sox lose Ellsbury for 6 to 8 weeks with a dislocated shoulder.

That hurts (literally and figuratively, I'm sure).

[Falcon]

Tough news on Ellsbury, damn.

Cards get these today, pretty cool.

[Falcon]

So faldor, how's the temp in Boston today?

Had enough of Valentine yet?

[pilferk]

So faldor, how's the temp in Boston today?

Had enough of Valentine yet?

OUR forcast, in CT, says we'll hit close to 90, today.  I wouldn't want to be running the Boston Marathon today, let me tell you.

On Valentine:  Obviously, I'm NOT a Sox fan...but I do question why you publicly call out Youk.  Doesn't make any sense to me.  In a club house that already, reportedly, has trust and chemistry issues...I'm not sure why you do that.  I don't think it accomplishes anything.  I don't think THAT'S the way to movtivate Youk, and I think it just fosters more ill will in the clubhouse.

[Falcon]

On Valentine:  Obviously, I'm NOT a Sox fan...but I do question why you publicly call out Youk.  Doesn't make any sense to me.  In a club house that already, reportedly, has trust and chemistry issues...I'm not sure why you do that.  I don't think it accomplishes anything.  I don't think THAT'S the way to movtivate Youk, and I think it just fosters more ill will in the clubhouse.

I was hesitant with the Valentine hire at first then he won the press conferene and said all the right things.

Back to square 1, there's a reason nobody touched him for 10 years - he's batshit crazy.

I'm spooked if I'm Red Sox fan, a full on mutiny could happen at anytime now..

[faldor]

On Valentine:  Obviously, I'm NOT a Sox fan...but I do question why you publicly call out Youk.  Doesn't make any sense to me.  In a club house that already, reportedly, has trust and chemistry issues...I'm not sure why you do that.  I don't think it accomplishes anything.  I don't think THAT'S the way to movtivate Youk, and I think it just fosters more ill will in the clubhouse.

I was hesitant with the Valentine hire at first then he won the press conferene and said all the right things.

Back to square 1, there's a reason nobody touched him for 10 years - he's batshit crazy.

I'm spooked if I'm Red Sox fan, a full on mutiny could happen at anytime now..

I was away in Cleveland for the RNRHOF festivities over the weekend so I missed out on all the Valentine fun.  From what I've heard though, his comments weren't all that inflammatory.  They were kind of blown out of proportion.  With that being said, something that never would have happened with Francona because he wouldn't allow himself to say anything critical about a player of his. 

Stuff like this was expected, so I can't say it's a surprise.  We'll see if it has a negative effect or not.  It's too early to tell.  He was generally hated when he managed with the Mets but he got the most out of those teams for a few years until they quit on him.  So as long as the Sox don't quit on him in year one, they should be fine.  We'll have to wait and see.

As for Bobby ON the field.  He seems to have a quick hook for bullpen guys, BUT he's left Daniel Bard go too long in both his first 2 starts.  Let's not forget this is his first year starting, you'd think he wouldn't want to overexert him early on.  But he was clearly coming to the end of his rope in his 2 starts and Bobby left him in to let 2 good starts go to waste.  That and I've noticed, he never seems to argue any calls.  At least not yet.  There have been many close calls where I've expected some sort of an argument, but so far nothing.

[Falcon]

Bobby V's definitely been the talk of baseball today, it's been non stop on MLB Radio.

Jim Bowden (one of most ardent supporters) took him to task, basically said he should shut the fuck up and keep it in house or he'd be out by the All Star Break.

Personally I don't see too many Sox games but I've never heard of an instance when Youklis' effort has been in question.

[faldor]

Bobby V's definitely been the talk of baseball today, it's been non stop on MLB Radio.

Jim Bowden (one of most ardent supporters) took him to task, basically said he should shut the fuck up and keep it in house or he'd be out by the All Star Break.

Personally I don't see too many Sox games but I've never heard of an instance when Youklis' effort has been in question.

Well, I've heard quite a few Boston media types, who are typically as negative as they come, saying the comments were being taken out of context.  They feel that he just meant that he was off to a slow start and that his swing wasn't right and maybe mentally he wasn't there.  But he was asked a follow up question and he said that he will get there.

I just think people are looking for Bobby to slip up and they're picking up on any little thing. 

And Youkilis, if anything, tries TOO hard at times.  And Bobby might actually be onto something there.  He got off to a real bad start this year, but watching his reaction you wouldn't really know it.  Normally the guy goes 0-4 and even if he's hitting .300 he'll slam his helmet down in the dugout.  He hasn't really had those reactions this year.  Which I don't think is necessarily a bad thing.  Maybe Bobby was just making that same observation.  Maybe Kevin has mellowed out a little, at least to begin this year.  Sometimes going ALL OUT can cause you to miss some time during the year.  Maybe he's trying to pace himself a little better since he has broken down in each of the last few seasons.

Bobby may end up being a disaster in Boston, but I don't think this comment will be the one to push him there, and I don't necessarily see this as a sign of things to come.