2012 Baseball Season/Off-Season Discussion

[tim_m]

Congrats to Barry Larkin on the HOF, well dererved.

Absolutely! Always liked him, Congrats to him.

[Falcon]

Pilf, Tim - Yanks/M's swap.

Thoughts?

Great deal for the Yanks from my view guys, a great deal.

[tim_m]

Interesting deal, obviously Pinaeda is a legit candidate to be a no.1 at some point. Giving up Montero hurts a bit though. He is gonna be a very good offensive player. I'm curious who will step into the DH role now. It was supposed to be Montero until he was ready to catch everyday. I'm guessing this means the yankees expect Romine to be the catcher of the future once Martin either can't anymore or if he decides to move on. I liked Noesi. I think he has a chance to be a very good starter in this league. I don't know anything about the other guy we picked up in the deal though. Anyone?

[Falcon]

Interesting deal, obviously Pinaeda is a legit candidate to be a no.1 at some point. Giving up Montero hurts a bit though. He is gonna be a very good offensive player. I'm curious who will step into the DH role now. It was supposed to be Montero until he was ready to catch everyday. I'm guessing this means the yankees expect Romine to be the catcher of the future once Martin either can't anymore or if he decides to move on. I liked Noesi. I think he has a chance to be a very good starter in this league. I don't know anything about the other guy we picked up in the deal though. Anyone?

Damn Tim, I was thinking you'd be jumping for joy at this - Pineda is as you said, a potential number 1.

The other kid the Yanks got is a hard throwing 19 year old, a very good prospect from what all the scribes are saying.

This to me is an absolute steal for the Yankees, an incredible move.

As a Cards fan it scares me death, the market for 2013 free agent Yadier Molina just added the Yankees.

[tim_m]

Interesting deal, obviously Pinaeda is a legit candidate to be a no.1 at some point. Giving up Montero hurts a bit though. He is gonna be a very good offensive player. I'm curious who will step into the DH role now. It was supposed to be Montero until he was ready to catch everyday. I'm guessing this means the yankees expect Romine to be the catcher of the future once Martin either can't anymore or if he decides to move on. I liked Noesi. I think he has a chance to be a very good starter in this league. I don't know anything about the other guy we picked up in the deal though. Anyone?

Damn Tim, I was thinking you'd be jumping for joy at this - Pineda is as you said, a potential number 1.

The other kid the Yanks got is a hard throwing 19 year old, a very good prospect from what all the scribes are saying.

This to me is an absolute steal for the Yankees, an incredible move.

As a Cards fan it scares me death, the market for 2013 free agent Yadier Molina just added the Yankees.

Don't get me wrong. Getting Pinaeda is great. The kid is the real deal. I'm just wondering where this leaves us at DH for the short term and catcher long term. No telling how long we'll have Martin. I think we have a few years before Romine will be ready. If this means we could be in on Molina in 2013. That makes me ecstatic. That whole family of catchers are fantastic. The other guy we got sounds promising. Hopefully he can contribute at the majors at some point too.

[Falcon]

I don't think the Yanks are done, they now have the option to deal from young starting pitching (an organizational strength) for any potential holes or sign a Carlos Pena type to DH and spell Tex at 1st.

As for long term catching, I think they just let the baseball world know they didn't see Montero as the guy.

Another organizational strength, resign Martin or go take a shot at the likes of Molina, lots of options for 2013 and beyond.

[tim_m]

I don't think the Yanks are done, they now have the option to deal from young starting pitching (an organizational strength) for any potential holes or sign a Carlos Pena type to DH and spell Tex at 1st.

As for long term catching, I think they just let the baseball world know they didn't see Montero as the guy.

Another organizational strength, resign Martin or go take a shot at the likes of Molina, lots of options for 2013 and beyond.

True, i just hope we don't sell all the young pitching. I realize the yankees are always gonna have a try to win every year mentality but, i would like to see us hold on to some of those young arms and develop them like Nova and Hughes.

Yeah, people questioned his ability to catch at the major league level. I would stick with Martin for now at least. He's a good defensive catcher. His offense kinda waned as the season went on. So that is a bit of a concern. I would like to see us take a shot at Molina in 2013. Catcher is an minor league strength of ours but now the closest guy we have to major league ready is Romine i believe.

[Falcon]

I wouldn't be surprised if Hughes got dealt, not sure how his high his value is but he could fit nicely into a package to fill a hole.

Getting Pineda and signing Kuroda puts them in great position to do whatever they need to do this season and plenty of options beyond.

[faldor]

Yeah, I'd have to say that looks like a great deal for the Yanks on paper.  Whenever you can acquire a pitcher with the pedigree of a Pineda, you do whatever it takes to get it done.  Sure Montero looked good last year and has the potential to rake at the major league level.  But you have to value pitching over offense, especially when you're the Yankees.  It's far easier to acquire good hitting than it is pitching.

With that being said, there's no guarantee Pineda will turn into something special, as he tailed off last year after a hot start.  But it's definitely worth the risk in my opinion.  CC is a given for them, and if Nova can pick up where he left off, and Pineda can progress, that's a solid 1-2-3 for a few years at least.  They also signed Hiroki Kuroda for 1 year/10 million.  So I guess you can substitute those 2 guys for Freddy Garcia and Bartolo Colon.  I have to say, on paper that looks like a vast improvement, solely because of Pineda.  However, Colon and Garcia pitched great for the Yanks last season, so their efforts won't be easy to match.

[Falcon]

I clipped this from a poster on Cards Talk, kinda sums up my feeling about the deal as well:

"The Yankees got Pineda, a potential ace pitcher, and Jose Campos, who's like Pineda except three years younger (20)."

The Mariners, on the other hand, got an overrated catching prospect (Montero) and some no-name pitcher with serious control issues. ."

[D]

I got Pineda in my keeper MLB league... Kid is a stud ace future cy young winner.

Crazy Seattle gave him up. just truly ridiculous. With Pineda and King Felix.. they could've ruled the West.


Yanks maybe go sign Prince Fielder now to DH?

Yanks also have another very young catching prospect named Gary Sanchez who is looking good in winter ball.

[Falcon]

Kid is a stud ace future cy young winner.

Crazy Seattle gave him up. just truly ridiculous.

Agreed on all the above, if I'm Yankee fan I'm dancing in the streets and putting pre orders in for playoff tickets.

Faldor, does Boston counter by overpayng for Oswalt or the enigma wrapped in a riddle that is Edwin Jackson?

[faldor]

I think the Sox would take a chance on Oswalt, but I'm not sure Roy would want to try and revitalize his career by pitching in the AL East after pitching his entire career in the NL.

The Sox seem to be taking the approach of last years Yanks. Taking fliers on journeymen starters like Aaron Cook and Carlos Silva and hoping one of them pans out. They still have a potentially great front end of the rotation with Lester, Beckett, and Buccholz. It remains to be seen how Bard can do as the 4th starter. They also have a lot of money invested in Lackey and Dice K, who will miss the entire season and most of the season respectively. So I don't think they're too eager to dive into any long term/high dollar deals.

Again, if they could get Oswalt on a 1 year deal similar to Kuroda I'm sure they'd be more than willing. I just don't know if that's the best fit for him. Also, the Red Sox can't overly concern themselves with the Yankees anymore. The Rays are still a factor as well as the Rangers and Angels. I don't think these moves should put any added urgency into the team. If the right deal presents itself, they should do it. But its never good to be reactionary. That hardly ever works out.

[pilferk]

Pilf, Tim - Yanks/M's swap.

Thoughts?

Great deal for the Yanks from my view guys, a great deal.

Confused and conflicted, but probably OK.

Confused:  I can't figure out why the M's let Pineda go for ONLY (basically) Montero.  Now, I'm not bagging on Montero...I think this kid, with some seasoning, could be the real deal.  Sure, his catching is raw (at almost 23 years old), but this kid can HIT.  And he's got the attitude and composure to succeed in NYC.

Pineda had a VERY good season last year...and he's cheap (because he's so young).  The only negative you can point to is that the kid didn't touch 200 innings last year....and he was a LOT better in the 1st half than he was in the 2nd half.  I'm wondering if the M's know something, or saw something, that gave them pause.

I think both teams could, potentially, get what they need....I think the M's, organizationally, gave up more (because good pitching > good hitting, in terms of value...and because of the sheer depth at catching the Yanks have).

I'm conflicted because...like many Yanks fans...I've been following Montero for awhile.  He's been on "our" radar, and I REALLY wanted to see this kid come up and make an impact with the big club.  I'm disappointed (but not surprised) that he's gone.  That being said, the Yanks needed starting pitching...and all things considered, I think it was obvious that to get pitching of any sort of quality...you were going to have to give up Montero.  Hopefully Pineda turns out to be worth it.  My ONE other concern is:   You're now building your rotation (you'd think) with two VERY young guys in it (Nova and Pineda).  It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.

I'm OK with the deal.  I'm a little more suprised at their signing of Kuroda...because now you have 7 guys for 5 spots:
CC, AJ, Nova, Hughes, Garcia, Pineda, Kuroda.

I know they're trying to off load AJ...and maybe these deals mean there's some progress on that front...but right now they went from NEEDING pitching to being flush with pitching, basically overnight.  Sure, not a bad problem to have....but it'll be interesting to see how they handle it.  My gut says the rotation is going to be CC, Kuroda, Pineda, Nova and Hughes...with Garcia in the pen as the security blanket.  That leave AJ on the outside, looking in.

[pilferk]

I clipped this from a poster on Cards Talk, kinda sums up my feeling about the deal as well:

"The Yankees got Pineda, a potential ace pitcher, and Jose Campos, who's like Pineda except three years younger (20)."

The Mariners, on the other hand, got an overrated catching prospect (Montero) and some no-name pitcher with serious control issues. ."

That's not a great perspective on the Mariners side of the deal.

They got a HIGHLY rated prospect, who's shown he can hit at the major league level, in meaningful games...and the M's need offense more than they need Montero to be a 5 star defensive catcher.  They should get it.  I'm not sure how a guy who hit close to .300 in the minors (while dealing with injuries) and over .300 in the majors (with limited AB's), with some pop, is overrated.  Overexposed (because he's constantly talked about and asked for)? Maybe.  Combine that with the fact he's cheap, and under team control for a LONG time.

They also got a guy who contributed to an MLB club last year...a guy who (other than 2 bad months...one of whic was a mixed bag) pitched pretty well out of the pen last year.  Maybe not a starter, but certainly the potential to be a quality set up guy.

The M's aren't getting chopped liver, though I do agree they gave up (potentially) more than they got (potentially).

[pilferk]

I got Pineda in my keeper MLB league... Kid is a stud ace future cy young winner.

Crazy Seattle gave him up. just truly ridiculous. With Pineda and King Felix.. they could've ruled the West.

No way.....not with the way the Angles loaded up this year.  The M's offense couldn't support the pitching...and by the time it can/could....Felix will be a FA.  Seattle isn't going to compete with the Angels or the Rangers for awhile.

Yanks maybe go sign Prince Fielder now to DH?

Yanks also have another very young catching prospect named Gary Sanchez who is looking good in winter ball.

Nope...they've got no interest in Fielder.  In fact....I think Montero was traded because they don't, really, have an every day spot for him.  They need that DH spot to use for the aging vets on this team...and it will probably be manned by Andruw Jones on the days it's not being used by Tex, A-rod, or Jeter.  Fielder might very well end up on the Rangers, to compete with the Angels signing Pujols.  That division could shape up to be NASTY next year.

Yanks need to find a quality backup catcher, who is ML ready.  That's it. Cervelli is serviceable, but both injury prone and unable to hit his weight. I don't think Romine is the answer (the guy they have "next" in the minors).  Sanchez is YEARS away, but he's likely their catcher of the future. MAYBE they find they need a bat by mid-season...but certainly not necessary by the time they break camp.

 Right now, the Yanks have an abundance of catchers and shortstops and....many say...some of the best developing minor league pitching out there.

[pilferk]

I think the Sox would take a chance on Oswalt, but I'm not sure Roy would want to try and revitalize his career by pitching in the AL East after pitching his entire career in the NL.

Yanks supposedly inquired about Oswalt. 

For an NL team, Oswalt is said to be willing to take a 1 year, 12-15 million deal.

For an AL team, it's 2 years, 32 million.

For an AL EAST team, it's 3 years, 48 million.

He doesn't, REALLY, want to pitch in the AL East.

That being said, that was before X-mas, before his price has dropped because he's not getting interest.

The Sox seem to be taking the approach of last years Yanks. Taking fliers on journeymen starters like Aaron Cook and Carlos Silva and hoping one of them pans out. They still have a potentially great front end of the rotation with Lester, Beckett, and Buccholz. It remains to be seen how Bard can do as the 4th starter. They also have a lot of money invested in Lackey and Dice K, who will miss the entire season and most of the season respectively. So I don't think they're too eager to dive into any long term/high dollar deals.

Looks that way, to me, too.  I think part of it is:  The GM is going through culture shock/shell shock/sticker shock...all at the same time.  Boston is becoming like the Yanks:  Everyone wants top dollar from them.

Again, if they could get Oswalt on a 1 year deal similar to Kuroda I'm sure they'd be more than willing. I just don't know if that's the best fit for him. Also, the Red Sox can't overly concern themselves with the Yankees anymore. The Rays are still a factor as well as the Rangers and Angels. I don't think these moves should put any added urgency into the team. If the right deal presents itself, they should do it. But its never good to be reactionary. That hardly ever works out.

Agreed.

[tim_m]

Reports are Victor Martinez has torn his ACL and is done for the season. Ouch, that hurts.

[sandman]

I think the Sox would take a chance on Oswalt, but I'm not sure Roy would want to try and revitalize his career by pitching in the AL East after pitching his entire career in the NL.

Yanks supposedly inquired about Oswalt. 

For an NL team, Oswalt is said to be willing to take a 1 year, 12-15 million deal.

For an AL team, it's 2 years, 32 million.

For an AL EAST team, it's 3 years, 48 million.

He doesn't, REALLY, want to pitch in the AL East.

That being said, that was before X-mas, before his price has dropped because he's not getting interest.

just curious, where did you hear this? cause i have been kinda keeping an eye on oswalt just to see what he gets and i had never heard that (but i don't listen to NY sports talk or anything). my understanding was he that was asking all teams for a 3-year deal back in november and early december, but by mid-december he had dropped his asking price to a one year deal for any team. i didn't think the yankees had any real interest in him and actually preferred Kuroda all along. at least that's what my yankee-rooting friends have told me. 

the phillies clearly did the right thing in not keeping him, but any team that gets him at $8M for a one-year contract is getting an awesome deal. especially a contender that only needs him to be a #4. it's kinda strange that most of your top spending teams are all at or near their spending limits this year. i'd love to have oswalt back in philly at that price.

[pilferk]

Reports are Victor Martinez has torn his ACL and is done for the season. Ouch, that hurts.

Also, Crawford had surgery on his wrist...could miss the start of the season for the Sox.