Rock N Roll Hall Of Fame! Now it's official.

[YDontUJustFOff]

I was just thinking about this when I was posting in another thread, but I don't see any reason why anyone not in the band in the period from 20-25 years would even be there to perform.  The induction is not celebrating anything from the CD era, otherwise they would let in bands who are even less than a decade old.  Not trying to disrespect the current lineup at all since they do great work, but this isn't about them, IMO.

[pilferk]

I was just thinking about this when I was posting in another thread, but I don't see any reason why anyone not in the band in the period from 20-25 years would even be there to perform.  The induction is not celebrating anything from the CD era, otherwise they would let in bands who are even less than a decade old.  Not trying to disrespect the current lineup at all since they do great work, but this isn't about them, IMO.

It's about Guns n Roses.

Right now....the current lineup IS Guns n Roses....just like the former lineup WAS Guns n Roses.  For example: Tommy (1999-2012), I think, has been in the band as long as any of the previous/former members were (1985 - 1997-ish).

People have mentioned the Blondie induction....which is a good example.  The version of Blondie that performed was the version as it was made up on that day. The older members were inducted...but they were not the members that performed (much to their ire).

Yes, I know the arguments that will ensue about which material "led them to be inducted" (Appetite, Lies, UYI) but....really....it's not going to matter.  It hasn't in the past.

[LongGoneDay]

I was just thinking about this when I was posting in another thread, but I don't see any reason why anyone not in the band in the period from 20-25 years would even be there to perform.  The induction is not celebrating anything from the CD era, otherwise they would let in bands who are even less than a decade old.  Not trying to disrespect the current lineup at all since they do great work, but this isn't about them, IMO.

It's about Guns n Roses.

Right now....the current lineup IS Guns n Roses....just like the former lineup WAS Guns n Roses.  For example: Tommy (1999-2012), I think, has been in the band as long as any of the previous/former members were (1985 - 1997-ish).

People have mentioned the Blondie induction....which is a good example.  The version of Blondie that performed was the version as it was made up on that day. The older members were inducted...but they were not the members that performed (much to their ire).

Yes, I know the arguments that will ensue about which material "led them to be inducted" (Appetite, Lies, UYI) but....really....it's not going to matter.  It hasn't in the past.

I don't have a clue how it works, but I would think if the Hall could throw it's weight around, they would do what it took to try and get the original members to agree to perform together, because that's what is selling tickets. That's what people want to see. No disrespect to the current band, but people tuning in, and paying north of $1,000 per ticket to be are going to be very disappointed if they perform. It's not their night. The majority of HTGTH forum members may want to see today's lineup, but the majority of the world wants to see the creators. It's not a coincidence that GN'R is being inducted first opportunity.

[Bandita]

I am really curious as to what is going to happen, myself.  Pilferk mentioned on the last page he thinks Axl would feel like he is disrespecting the current guys (I am NOT calling them new since a lot have been in the band longer than the originals) and I agree with that.  He does seem happier and in a good place now at least when he is performing. He seems very happy to be doing this on his/the current band's terms.  This is probably difficult for him, though--weighing what to do.  If he plays with the old guys all the reunion freaks will start up again and everyone else that is looking to make a buck off that.  This is why he is letting Beta/Fernando/etc manage things now because every other manager has just ultimately been interested in a cash cow reunion and he has more integrity than to do that for a buck.

[Limulus]

i dont even think the recent band members would have a problem with the classic line-up performing a couple of songs, some of them repeatedly said how much they like the old Guns. they've booked a summer european tour and just talked about the possibility of writing/creating new songs (or so, latest Dizzy-Int.), so there definately is some sort of plan with the recent members to go on. and if they make it clear in advance that i'd be a one-off @ the HOF + saying it again on the live broadcast....there aint a problem with this, huh?
who knows, maybe they make some peace that Slash even will play 1-2 songs with the new line-up (like Izzy in 2006, Duff in 2010/11)? sometimes this band is full of surprises 

[pilferk]

I don't have a clue how it works, but I would think if the Hall could throw it's weight around, they would do what it took to try and get the original members to agree to perform together, because that's what is selling tickets. That's what people want to see. No disrespect to the current band, but people tuning in, and paying north of $1,000 per ticket to be are going to be very disappointed if they perform. It's not their night. The majority of HTGTH forum members may want to see today's lineup, but the majority of the world wants to see the creators. It's not a coincidence that GN'R is being inducted first opportunity.

They can't...and they don't.  Regardless about what SOME people want to see.

Those that are going to be disappointed...should prepare to be disappointed (I wouldn't be...I know there are a number of forum members who are going who won't be disappointed).  Not because I (and I assume they) don't want to see the "old" incarnation perform...but because we're pretty sure it's not going to happen.  Mostly because it hasn't hapened in the past (and I'm not just talking about "a GnR reunion hasn't happened", but that this type of thing hasn't happened at previous HOF inductions, with other bands).

Coincidence or not...past history at the HOF inductions will tell you what's likely going to happen...what is assuredly going to happen unless Axl decides otherwise (since he fronts the band and "owns" the name).

[pilferk]

I am really curious as to what is going to happen, myself.  Pilferk mentioned on the last page he thinks Axl would feel like he is disrespecting the current guys (I am NOT calling them new since a lot have been in the band longer than the originals) and I agree with that.  He does seem happier and in a good place now at least when he is performing. He seems very happy to be doing this on his/the current band's terms.  This is probably difficult for him, though--weighing what to do.  If he plays with the old guys all the reunion freaks will start up again and everyone else that is looking to make a buck off that.  This is why he is letting Beta/Fernando/etc manage things now because every other manager has just ultimately been interested in a cash cow reunion and he has more integrity than to do that for a buck.

You're right in that "new" probably isn't the right word.

More recent is probably better.  A lot of these guys have been around for a LONG time.

[pilferk]

i dont even think the recent band members would have a problem with the classic line-up performing a couple of songs, some of them repeatedly said how much they like the old Guns. they've booked a summer european tour and just talked about the possibility of writing/creating new songs (or so, latest Dizzy-Int.), so there definately is some sort of plan with the recent members to go on. and if they make it clear in advance that i'd be a one-off @ the HOF + saying it again on the live broadcast....there aint a problem with this, huh?
who knows, maybe they make some peace that Slash even will play 1-2 songs with the new line-up (like Izzy in 2006, Duff in 2010/11)? sometimes this band is full of surprises 

It sounds odd...but how the more recent members would ACTUALLY feel doesn't matter as much as how Axl THINKS they might feel, and if Axl thinks he's disrespecting, slighting, or insulting them. 

Aslo, it can be said til people are blue in the face that it's a one off.

The fact is: It wouldn't be taken that way, and it would raise expectations and fuel the cries (making them louder) of the "reunionists".

I don't think Axl wants any part of that.

[downzy56]

I don't have a clue how it works, but I would think if the Hall could throw it's weight around, they would do what it took to try and get the original members to agree to perform together, because that's what is selling tickets. That's what people want to see. No disrespect to the current band, but people tuning in, and paying north of $1,000 per ticket to be are going to be very disappointed if they perform. It's not their night. The majority of HTGTH forum members may want to see today's lineup, but the majority of the world wants to see the creators. It's not a coincidence that GN'R is being inducted first opportunity.

They can't...and they don't.  Regardless about what SOME people want to see.

Those that are going to be disappointed...should prepare to be disappointed (I wouldn't be...I know there are a number of forum members who are going who won't be disappointed).  Not because I (and I assume they) don't want to see the "old" incarnation perform...but because we're pretty sure it's not going to happen.  Mostly because it hasn't hapened in the past.

Coincidence or not...past history at the HOF inductions will tell you what's likely going to happen...what is assuredly going to happen unless Axl decides otherwise (since he fronts the band and "owns" the name).

Hey may own the name, but he doesn't control who gets nominated and who wins.  Moreover, he doesn't decide who gets invited to the show nor is the one calling the shots as to who gets to perform.  Unless Axl is allowed a certain number of guests (and thereby invites current members to attend) or the HOF is cool with letting the current band play, don't expect to see this lineup performing. 

What I think is most likely is some sort of deal being worked out where one group (most likely the former members) accept the award and another group (likely Axl and the current lineup, with likely older members mixed in for one song) performing.  I can see Slash, Adler and Duff accepting the induction award and Axl, Duff, Bumble/DJ/Izzy, Sorum and Dizzy playing a few songs.  This way everyone wins.  What I don't expect is to see Axl and Slash sharing the stage whether accepting the award or performing. 

I think if the fans are to get anything, this previous scenario is the most likely.  Yet I do believe we're far more likely to see Axl attend the awards ceremony but not be visible in any facet.  Like previously stated, he wants to keep the attention on the band he has now, not the one that got him into the HOF.  The more people see Axl with his former bandmates, the less they'll accept the current lineup.  The best move Axl has made in this respect is to set up the European tour with the current band soon after the induction.  Any inactivity by Axl and the current band following the HOF induction would have fueled speculation and rumors. 

Either way, it should be interesting.

Cheers,

Andrew

[sandman]

i think Axl should give a speach about what GnR has meant to him. Mention some positive things about the old band, then point out how he has carried GnR's legacy and the current members have been great in helping and contributing to that.

Then do a huge jam with all the members on stage. the old and the new.

that would make the night a total success, and Axl would come off looking really classy.

[pilferk]

Hey may own the name, but he doesn't control who gets nominated and who wins.  Moreover, he doesn't decide who gets invited to the show nor is the one calling the shots as to who gets to perform.  Unless Axl is allowed a certain number of guests (and thereby invites current members to attend) or the HOF is cool with letting the current band play, don't expect to see this lineup performing. 

He doesn't control who gets to accept the award.

He DOES control who gets to perform...if the HOF wants to bill someone as GnR.  Witness Deborah Harry and the Blondie induction.

He designates who Guns n Roses is.  If the HOF wants GnR to perform....this lineup is who they get...unless Axl says otherwise.  If the HOF decides they don't want GnR to perform..then they can choose who's on stage.  But they can't call them GnR.

It's really that simple..no matter how much people want, wish,or hope otherwise.

What I think is most likely is some sort of deal being worked out where one group (most likely the former members) accept the award and another group (likely Axl and the current lineup, with likely older members mixed in for one song) performing.  I can see Slash, Adler and Duff accepting the induction award and Axl, Duff, Bumble/DJ/Izzy, Sorum and Dizzy playing a few songs.  This way everyone wins.  What I don't expect is to see Axl and Slash sharing the stage whether accepting the award or performing. 

Based on what? Certainly not what's been done in the past.

[downzy56]

Hey may own the name, but he doesn't control who gets nominated and who wins.  Moreover, he doesn't decide who gets invited to the show nor is the one calling the shots as to who gets to perform.  Unless Axl is allowed a certain number of guests (and thereby invites current members to attend) or the HOF is cool with letting the current band play, don't expect to see this lineup performing. 

He doesn't control who gets to accept the award.

He DOES control who gets to perform...if the HOF wants to bill someone as GnR.  Witness Deborah Harry and the Blondie induction.

He designates who Guns n Roses is.  If the HOF wants GnR to perform....this lineup is who they get...unless Axl says otherwise.  If the HOF decides they don't want GnR to perform..then they can choose who's on stage.  But they can't call them GnR.

It's really that simple..no matter how much people want, wish,or hope otherwise.

But there's an issue concerning invitations.  7 members of Blondie were invited to the induction ceremony which helped produce the acrimonious result.  The question is, has the HOF sent out invitations to all current members of GNR?  Axl may control the name, but he doesn't control who gets let into the building.  Unless explicit invitations are sent to current members to not only attend and perform, Axl can either choose to accept or deny the request of a band forming on stage under the banner of Guns N' Roses. 

And why I think my proposal is likely is I don't think the HOF wants a repeat of the Blondie induction.  If they want all five members of GNR to have a hand in the acceptance and celebration of the evening (without it turning into a disaster like Van Halen or Blondie), they're going to have to find a way to split up the two camps.  Having one group accept the award and another perform the songs seems the most advantageous for both parties.  The Blondie incident was just that: one incident.  It is not binding precedent that will provide the framework for all similar situations involving former vs. current band mates. 

It would make sense for the former members to accept the award as they are (along with Axl) part of the past and the primary reason for the band's induction.  Having Axl and his current band (along with one or two former members) illustrates how the band is keeping the music going and is still a living and breathing entity.  Makes sense to me.

Cheers,

Andrew

[pilferk]

But there's an issue concerning invitations.  7 members of Blondie were invited to the induction ceremony which helped produce the acrimonious result.  The question is, has the HOF sent out invitations to all current members of GNR?  Axl may control the name, but he doesn't control who gets let into the building.  Unless explicit invitations are sent to current members to not only attend and perform, Axl can either choose to accept or deny the request of a band forming on stage under the banner of Guns N' Roses. 

Not really, there isn't.

First off, Axl will get to bring a certain number of people, on his own.  He can bring the current members (and that seems to be the plan, given Dizzy's recent comments....heck, Dizzy probably has an additional ticket alotment, too), as his guests.  Can they come up on stage to accept?  Probably not..definitely not without HOF approval.  But they can be there.  They could also just get tickets (which, you'd think, they'd want to do to support Axl)....they were available to the public.  Still are via ticket resellers.

And you said it at the end:

If GnR performs, it's the lineup Axl approves.  Which pretty much makes my point.  THAT'S how Axl maintains control.  Because you can bet your bottom dollar that the HOF wants to have SOME form of GnR on stage.  And if you think ANYONE is going to pressure Axl into doing something he doesn't want to...you've not been paying close attention.

If you're expecting to see the old incarnation of GnR perform together...you'll likely be disappointed.  If GnR performs, it will be the current lineup...unless Axl decides otherwise.  You just basically agreed.

And why I think my proposal is likely is I don't think the HOF wants a repeat of the Blondie induction.  If they want all five members of GNR to have a hand in the acceptance and celebration of the evening (without it turning into a disaster like Van Halen or Blondie), they're going to have to find a way to split up the two camps.  Having one group accept the award and another perform the songs seems the most advantageous for both parties.  The Blondie incident was just that: one incident.  It is not binding precedent that will provide the framework for all similar situations involving former vs. current band mates. 

But  the Blondie induction is history....not just speculation.  You're supposing...which bears pointing out.  It's not any more likely than any supposition is.

It would make sense for the former members to accept the award as they are (along with Axl) part of the past and the primary reason for the band's induction.  Having Axl and his current band (along with one or two former members) illustrates how the band is keeping the music going and is still a living and breathing entity.  Makes sense to me.

Cheers,

Andrew

With the exception of including former members in the performance..you've just described the way it's been done in the past...and nobody can force Axl into allowing former members on stage, if they bill it as GnR.

To be clear, my coments, right from the get go, concern who will be PERFORMING...not who may or  may not show up to accept or sit in the audience.  That's what the comments I responded to were in relation to...and that's what you responded to.

[14 Yrs Of Silence]

Downzy - I cannot see Axl going just to perform and not accept the award.  I think Axl is big enough to be on the same stage as Slash without getting into a fight with him.  I like Sandman's comment.  That approach could work well, hell, he can even play 1 song with just the original band, then invite the new band to join in on a second, and then have have some peers come and join them.

How about WTTJ with the original 5, YCBM with Dizzy n' Matt, SCOM with old and current line-up, and a big jam on PC with everyone in the room!

It wouldn't be a good look to have the original band sitting in the audience watching the current lineup play Appetite hits.  So in my opinion Axl either sucks it up an invites the former members to play with or without the current line up or they don't perform at all.  I mean, with Blondie no one cares about anyone but Debbie Harry.  Not so much the case with GN'R.  Everyone knows each member so it would be very disrespectful for the current line up to play those songs in front of the original. 

[downzy56]

But there's an issue concerning invitations.  7 members of Blondie were invited to the induction ceremony which helped produce the acrimonious result.  The question is, has the HOF sent out invitations to all current members of GNR?  Axl may control the name, but he doesn't control who gets let into the building.  Unless explicit invitations are sent to current members to not only attend and perform, Axl can either choose to accept or deny the request of a band forming on stage under the banner of Guns N' Roses. 

Not really, there isn't.

First off, Axl will get to bring a certain number of people, on his own.  He can bring the current members (and that seems to be the plan, given Dizzy's recent comments....heck, Dizzy probably has an additional ticket alotment, too), as his guests.  Can they come up on stage to accept?  Probably not..definitely not without HOF approval.  But they can be there.  They could also just get tickets (which, you'd think, they'd want to do to support Axl)....they were available to the public.  Still are via ticket resellers.

And you said it at the end:

If GnR performs, it's the lineup Axl approves.  Which pretty much makes my point.  THAT'S how Axl maintains control.  Because you can bet your bottom dollar that the HOF wants to have SOME form of GnR on stage.  And if you think ANYONE is going to pressure Axl into doing something he doesn't want to...you've not been paying close attention.

If you're expecting to see the old incarnation of GnR perform together...you'll likely be disappointed.  If GnR performs, it will be the current lineup...unless Axl decides otherwise.  You just basically agreed.

And why I think my proposal is likely is I don't think the HOF wants a repeat of the Blondie induction.  If they want all five members of GNR to have a hand in the acceptance and celebration of the evening (without it turning into a disaster like Van Halen or Blondie), they're going to have to find a way to split up the two camps.  Having one group accept the award and another perform the songs seems the most advantageous for both parties.  The Blondie incident was just that: one incident.  It is not binding precedent that will provide the framework for all similar situations involving former vs. current band mates. 

But  the Blondie induction is history....not just speculation.  You're supposing...which bears pointing out.  It's not any more likely than any supposition is.

It would make sense for the former members to accept the award as they are (along with Axl) part of the past and the primary reason for the band's induction.  Having Axl and his current band (along with one or two former members) illustrates how the band is keeping the music going and is still a living and breathing entity.  Makes sense to me.

Cheers,

Andrew

With the exception of including former members in the performance..you've just described the way it's been done in the past...and nobody can force Axl into allowing former members on stage, if they bill it as GnR.

To be clear, my coments, right from the get go, concern who will be PERFORMING...not who may or  may not show up to accept or sit in the audience.  That's what the comments I responded to were in relation to...and that's what you responded to.

But who says they have to bill it as "Guns N' Roses?"  If the HOF has any interest in Slash, Duff, Izzy, Matt, and Adler be part of the performance, they could simply play but under no moniker or name.  They don't have to be introduced as Guns N' Roses.  Axl may control the name "Guns N' Roses," but that does not prevent him from having those being inducted into performing.  What we know for sure is that Guns N' Roses (that being Axl, Slash, Izzy, Duff, Steven, Matt and Dizzy) is being inducted into the Hall and that all original members and those being inducted will be there.  You claim that I'm speculating, but to say that invitations to current members are sent out or that extra tickets awarded to Axl and Dizzy will be given to current members is also speculation.  Furthermore, there would have to be arraignments set up to have current members play.  The question for the HOF is: what is more important - having all members being inducted show up and receive the award or satisfying Axl in having his band perform?  The only choice Axl gets is who he wants to play with, not who gets to play. 

The HOF may just want to avoid the whole situation and have current HOF members or musicians who GNR influenced play in their place.  If Axl comes to the HOF and insists on only playing with his current band and no one else, do you think the HOF would be down with that?  Considering the flack they took with Blondie and Van Halen, I seriously doubt it.

The Blondie is history, but like I said, I really doubt the HOF wants a repeat of that situation.  The HOF already has huge problems with legitimacy.  Do you think they want another headache in allowing what many see as an illegitimate form of GNR perform at the band's induction ceremony?  If a guy like Slash wants to play, trust me, the HOF is going to figure out a way for him to play.  May not be with Axl, but if they're interested in keeping another icon from souring on the HOF, they will accommodate him.

[Annie]

There was a small article in the Chicago Tribune that made it sound like the original lineup would be performing together. The media circus is already starting.

[pilferk]

But who says they have to bill it as "Guns N' Roses?"  If the HOF has any interest in Slash, Duff, Izzy, Matt, and Adler be part of the performance, they could simply play but under no moniker or name.  They don't have to be introduced as Guns N' Roses.  Axl may control the name "Guns N' Roses," but that does not prevent him from having those being inducted into performing.  What we know for sure is that Guns N' Roses (that being Axl, Slash, Izzy, Duff, Steven, Matt and Dizzy) is being inducted into the Hall and that all original members and those being inducted will be there.  You claim that I'm speculating, but to say that invitations to current members are sent out or that extra tickets awarded to Axl and Dizzy will be given to current members is also speculation.  Furthermore, there would have to be arraignments set up to have current members play.  The question for the HOF is: what is more important - having all members being inducted show up and receive the award or satisfying Axl in having his band perform?  The only choice Axl gets is who he wants to play with, not who gets to play. 

The extra tickets thing isn't speculation.  It's fact. I don't have a hard number, but each inductee gets a ticket allotment for friends and family. Check it if you don't believe me.  

Buying tickets because they were available to the public is also fact.

And you're making my point with the rest.  Read what I wrote.  IF THE HOF want GNR to play...it's the lineup Axl approves.  You just said as much, AGAIN. That gives Axl a pretty hefty amount of leverage...no matter how much some people want to ignore it.  It's GNR being inducted....holding the rights to that name gives him some clout in the discussions.

Sure, the HOF could contract with "Loaded Snakepit" to play...at the Guns n Roses induction...and risk pissing off Axl, a mountain of fans, and a good chunk of those in attendance.  They haven't done that in the past, though.  They've usually contracted whatever current incarnation of the band, as it exists, to play.  There's a reason for that.  

You can speculate that would change...but there's nothing to substantiate that it will.  There's HISTORY that supports the alternative.

And nothing says the former members can't accept...and not perform.  Not to beat a dead horse: Witness the Blondie induction.

Do you think the HOF doesn't REALLY want GnR on the bill as performing?  To the point they'd make some reasonable (all things considered) concessions to get them there?  REALLY?  The former members left.  Of their own accord (well, except for Matt).

The HOF may just want to avoid the whole situation and have current HOF members or musicians who GNR influenced play in their place.  If Axl comes to the HOF and insists on only playing with his current band and no one else, do you think the HOF would be down with that?  Considering the flack they took with Blondie and Van Halen, I seriously doubt it.

Doubt away.  History shows they'd be on board.  Nothing supports or shows they've changed their mind/mindset.

They MIGHT not have ANY members perform....I see that as more likely than "Loaded Snakepit" performing sans Axl.

Still supports my initial point, though...

The Blondie is history, but like I said, I really doubt the HOF wants a repeat of that situation.  The HOF already has huge problems with legitimacy.  Do you think they want another headache in allowing what many see as an illegitimate form of GNR perform at the band's induction ceremony?  If a guy like Slash wants to play, trust me, the HOF is going to figure out a way for him to play.  May not be with Axl, but if they're interested in keeping another icon from souring on the HOF, they will accommodate him.

Doubt away.  But there's no history, comments, or actions to support that doubt.  The HOF has done what they've done, historically.

Slash might play.   He won't likely play under the moniker of GnR, or with Axl.  

Which, again, makes my original point, again: Those expecting to see the original lineup of GnR play will likely be disappointed

[pilferk]

There was a small article in the Chicago Tribune that made it sound like the original lineup would be performing together. The media circus is already starting.

Which is exactly the problem that I think Axl, especially, wants to avoid.

Unless Axl has suddenly had an epiphany and become "The Great Fount of Forgiveness" in honor of the occasion.

Possible...but hard to believe.

[Fingers]

There was a small article in the Chicago Tribune that made it sound like the original lineup would be performing together. The media circus is already starting.

Which is exactly the problem that I think Axl, especially, wants to avoid.

Unless Axl has suddenly had an epiphany and become "The Great Fount of Forgiveness" in honor of the occasion.

Possible...but hard to believe.

Axl said some pretty terrible things about Izzy when he left in '91-basically "F**K Izzy Stradlin, here's Gilby Clarke", and after the Metallica tour, he would dedicate Double Talkin' JIve to Lars Ulrich-just sayin', it possible

[GnRltf]

pilferk - still focused on the NYC shows! One more night... Wish you and your girl were here brother!