Rock N Roll Hall Of Fame! Now it's official.

[Bridge]

Your assumption that Matt didn't add anything original to the songs is laughable.  You make it sound like Axl, Izzy, Duff and Slash were standing over his shoulder telling him exactly what to do with each beat. 

I'm sure the band didn't literally monitor every single beat, but Ali is correct in stating that Matt didn't contribute to the writing or construction of the Use Your Illusion songs.  Steven recorded UYI demos with the band, as well as performed some UYI tunes live during his tenure.  When Sorum was brought in, he basically mimicked Steven's parts.  Does that mean they sounded EXACTLY the same, beat for beat, as Steven's original parts?  No, of course not.  But you seem to be suggesting that Sorum had even the slightest degree of musical input into the flow and overall structure of the songs, and he didn't.  This was confirmed by Slash in his book as well as other interviews.

As far as "legal" status in the band, Sorum was never a full member.  Only the original five members were signed into the GNR partnership agreement in 1986 when they signed with Geffen.  Everyone after that, from Dizzy to Matt to any of Axl's new hires, have only been contractual members.

As far as the Hall of Fame, it's blatantly obvious by now that they are inducting members who recorded the original albums from GNR's heydey, which are the original five plus Matt and Dizzy.  The timing WAS important for the latter two guys; quite frankly, I've always considered both Sorum and Reed to be two of the luckiest bastards alive for walking into the biggest band in the world without having to help establish them.

[NaturalLight]

I'll probably get flamed for saying this but . . . .

This thread reminds me of the silliness that went on a few years back when it was announced that Axl would introduce someone at the VMA's. For weeks, months, whateve,r people speculated and made all sorts of ridiculous assumptions about what was going to happen.

And in the end, the dude walked up to a podium and introduced the Killers.
That was it.

There's no requirement that any band inducted even plays. I bet most times they don't.  And that's probably the case here. A few members will show up, make a speech and leave. In fact, I bet they don't play. And they're damn sure not gong to have three or four or however many different incarnations of the band play different songs from different eras.

It will probably be the Chili Peppers, the Beastie Boys, etc. I mean, how long is the show anyway?

There, said my thing. Flame me if you want. Don't care.

[ereeper]

I agree about all the speculating.

My dream scenario is that the current band plays a club show in Cleveland the night before the induction concert or late the night of the induction concert.  That would build a good buzz in the media.  Invite the diehard fans, the bands family and friends, and a few trusted members of the media and rock some tiny club in Cleveland like they have done in the past.  Now that would be one awesome celebration.

I'm hoping some live music is played by at least some members of the old band that night at the induction ceremony.  Steven and Tobias are the only members I haven't seen live.  Steven is probably the most likely to play live that night.  Regardless, it's a big part of my favorite bands history and I'm not going to try and compute thousands of different scenario's or debate who should or should not get in.  We know who is getting in that night.  It is what it is, so roll with the punches.  Otherwise the fiction is stranger than truth philosophy will rule around here for the next three months.

[Tongue-like-a-razor]

Is Steven - even though I love his work in the past - even capable of playing drums at a professional level anymore? Matt might be asked to play everything simply because Stevie's too unstable, which Axl also hinted at in the L.A. Times interview.

[reayj2003]

Is Steven - even though I love his work in the past - even capable of playing drums at a professional level anymore? Matt might be asked to play everything simply because Stevie's too unstable, which Axl also hinted at in the L.A. Times interview.

Of course he fucking can! When he tours with Adlers Appetite he plays every night city by city and never misses a beat. He's more than capable of playing a few songs! This thread needs to be locked it's seriously lame that you guys need to argue about things that are fact! The GN'R being inducted is the line up's of old that recorded Appetite and Use Your Illusions. Simples- and in no way does this detract from the current band. Now turn of your computers and do your homework kids!

[m_rated96]

Matt and Frank's statuses in GN'R are exactly the same.  They just walked into different situations.  Both of are/were contracted band members.  That is fact.  The differentiation you are making is solely based on what they stepped into.  Their roles are exactly the same.

Ali

Wow, are you saying that timing shouldn't play a part in any of this?  If GNR started 10 years earlier or 10 years later many of us likely would have never heard the band because of the landscape of music at those times.  Timing is big in all aspects of life buddy.

And please don't think I am defending Matt.  I stated before that if it was only the original 5 being inducted that would be fine with me.  But with Matt being inducted I can see where they are coming from.  I don't know why this is such a big deal to you.  

You completely misunderstood everything I wrote. 

Ali

ROAR ME SO MAD!!!     Your e-toughness is through the roof Ali!

I didn't misunderstand what you wrote.  You said the only difference between the two is what they stepped into.  What each stepped into is a result of timing.  Matt came into the band to record the UYI albums and went on a multi-year world tour that sold out stadiums.  Frank, not so much. 

Your assumption that Matt didn't add anything original to the songs is laughable.  You make it sound like Axl, Izzy, Duff and Slash were standing over his shoulder telling him exactly what to do with each beat.  Matt is a professional and there is a reason why he was hired by the band. 

Who's tryin to be an Internet tough guy? Not me. You just took what I said and made a ridiculous generalization, putting words in my mouth in the process. You're still doing that. 

The facts are these: many of the UYI songs were written or in the process of being written before Sorum was in the band. The course for those albums' success was set before he was in the band. Functionally, Sorum's role was no different than Frank's.

Ali

Sorry Ali but this point you make is illogical, irrelevant and wrong. Yes, Matt may have been a contracted employee, but he was a contracted employee for a significant part of the time that the band was enormous and making rock history. If you think that rock music is based on songwriting credits, then many drummers should not be inducted into the hall of fame.

I accept the argument that he doesn't add to their legacy - that's completely subjective. I'm fine with that. But to say that simply because he was a contracted employee means he's just as meaningful to the GnR legacy as Frank - that's just wrong. There are completely different band dynamics now. There is completely different press coverage now. That is, Matt and Frank contributed completely differently to how people saw/see "Guns N Roses"

[Ali]

Matt and Frank's statuses in GN'R are exactly the same.  They just walked into different situations.  Both of are/were contracted band members.  That is fact.  The differentiation you are making is solely based on what they stepped into.  Their roles are exactly the same.

Ali

Wow, are you saying that timing shouldn't play a part in any of this?  If GNR started 10 years earlier or 10 years later many of us likely would have never heard the band because of the landscape of music at those times.  Timing is big in all aspects of life buddy.

And please don't think I am defending Matt.  I stated before that if it was only the original 5 being inducted that would be fine with me.  But with Matt being inducted I can see where they are coming from.  I don't know why this is such a big deal to you.  

You completely misunderstood everything I wrote. 

Ali

ROAR ME SO MAD!!!     Your e-toughness is through the roof Ali!

I didn't misunderstand what you wrote.  You said the only difference between the two is what they stepped into.  What each stepped into is a result of timing.  Matt came into the band to record the UYI albums and went on a multi-year world tour that sold out stadiums.  Frank, not so much. 

Your assumption that Matt didn't add anything original to the songs is laughable.  You make it sound like Axl, Izzy, Duff and Slash were standing over his shoulder telling him exactly what to do with each beat.  Matt is a professional and there is a reason why he was hired by the band. 

Who's tryin to be an Internet tough guy? Not me. You just took what I said and made a ridiculous generalization, putting words in my mouth in the process. You're still doing that. 

The facts are these: many of the UYI songs were written or in the process of being written before Sorum was in the band. The course for those albums' success was set before he was in the band. Functionally, Sorum's role was no different than Frank's.

Ali

Sorry Ali but this point you make is illogical, irrelevant and wrong. Yes, Matt may have been a contracted employee, but he was a contracted employee for a significant part of the time that the band was enormous and making rock history. If you think that rock music is based on songwriting credits, then many drummers should not be inducted into the hall of fame.

I accept the argument that he doesn't add to their legacy - that's completely subjective. I'm fine with that. But to say that simply because he was a contracted employee means he's just as meaningful to the GnR legacy as Frank - that's just wrong. There are completely different band dynamics now. There is completely different press coverage now. That is, Matt and Frank contributed completely differently to how people saw/see "Guns N Roses"

Wrong, wrong and wrong. You missed the point about the Frank-Matt comparison and as such, your entire counterpoint is null and void.

Ali

[WAR41]

Matt and Frank's statuses in GN'R are exactly the same.  They just walked into different situations.  Both of are/were contracted band members.  That is fact.  The differentiation you are making is solely based on what they stepped into.  Their roles are exactly the same.

Ali

Wow, are you saying that timing shouldn't play a part in any of this?  If GNR started 10 years earlier or 10 years later many of us likely would have never heard the band because of the landscape of music at those times.  Timing is big in all aspects of life buddy.

And please don't think I am defending Matt.  I stated before that if it was only the original 5 being inducted that would be fine with me.  But with Matt being inducted I can see where they are coming from.  I don't know why this is such a big deal to you.  

You completely misunderstood everything I wrote. 

Ali

ROAR ME SO MAD!!!     Your e-toughness is through the roof Ali!

I didn't misunderstand what you wrote.  You said the only difference between the two is what they stepped into.  What each stepped into is a result of timing.  Matt came into the band to record the UYI albums and went on a multi-year world tour that sold out stadiums.  Frank, not so much. 

Your assumption that Matt didn't add anything original to the songs is laughable.  You make it sound like Axl, Izzy, Duff and Slash were standing over his shoulder telling him exactly what to do with each beat.  Matt is a professional and there is a reason why he was hired by the band. 

Who's tryin to be an Internet tough guy? Not me. You just took what I said and made a ridiculous generalization, putting words in my mouth in the process. You're still doing that. 

The facts are these: many of the UYI songs were written or in the process of being written before Sorum was in the band. The course for those albums' success was set before he was in the band. Functionally, Sorum's role was no different than Frank's.

Ali

Sorry Ali but this point you make is illogical, irrelevant and wrong. Yes, Matt may have been a contracted employee, but he was a contracted employee for a significant part of the time that the band was enormous and making rock history. If you think that rock music is based on songwriting credits, then many drummers should not be inducted into the hall of fame.

I accept the argument that he doesn't add to their legacy - that's completely subjective. I'm fine with that. But to say that simply because he was a contracted employee means he's just as meaningful to the GnR legacy as Frank - that's just wrong. There are completely different band dynamics now. There is completely different press coverage now. That is, Matt and Frank contributed completely differently to how people saw/see "Guns N Roses"

Wrong, wrong and wrong. You missed the point about the Frank-Matt comparison and as such, your entire counterpoint is null and void.

Ali

I guess in your bubble your argument makes sense. 

[axlrosegnr]

If I had my way, only Pitman would show up. He'd walk up when announced, smile, and say "I am Guns N' Roses." And then walk away into the sunset.

[Ali]

Matt and Frank's statuses in GN'R are exactly the same.  They just walked into different situations.  Both of are/were contracted band members.  That is fact.  The differentiation you are making is solely based on what they stepped into.  Their roles are exactly the same.

Ali

Wow, are you saying that timing shouldn't play a part in any of this?  If GNR started 10 years earlier or 10 years later many of us likely would have never heard the band because of the landscape of music at those times.  Timing is big in all aspects of life buddy.

And please don't think I am defending Matt.  I stated before that if it was only the original 5 being inducted that would be fine with me.  But with Matt being inducted I can see where they are coming from.  I don't know why this is such a big deal to you.  

You completely misunderstood everything I wrote. 

Ali

ROAR ME SO MAD!!!     Your e-toughness is through the roof Ali!

I didn't misunderstand what you wrote.  You said the only difference between the two is what they stepped into.  What each stepped into is a result of timing.  Matt came into the band to record the UYI albums and went on a multi-year world tour that sold out stadiums.  Frank, not so much. 

Your assumption that Matt didn't add anything original to the songs is laughable.  You make it sound like Axl, Izzy, Duff and Slash were standing over his shoulder telling him exactly what to do with each beat.  Matt is a professional and there is a reason why he was hired by the band. 

Who's tryin to be an Internet tough guy? Not me. You just took what I said and made a ridiculous generalization, putting words in my mouth in the process. You're still doing that. 

The facts are these: many of the UYI songs were written or in the process of being written before Sorum was in the band. The course for those albums' success was set before he was in the band. Functionally, Sorum's role was no different than Frank's.

Ali

Sorry Ali but this point you make is illogical, irrelevant and wrong. Yes, Matt may have been a contracted employee, but he was a contracted employee for a significant part of the time that the band was enormous and making rock history. If you think that rock music is based on songwriting credits, then many drummers should not be inducted into the hall of fame.

I accept the argument that he doesn't add to their legacy - that's completely subjective. I'm fine with that. But to say that simply because he was a contracted employee means he's just as meaningful to the GnR legacy as Frank - that's just wrong. There are completely different band dynamics now. There is completely different press coverage now. That is, Matt and Frank contributed completely differently to how people saw/see "Guns N Roses"

Wrong, wrong and wrong. You missed the point about the Frank-Matt comparison and as such, your entire counterpoint is null and void.

Ali

I guess in your bubble your argument makes sense. 

It's called reading comprehension. If someone exercises it, they won't end up making a straw-man argument.

Ali

[Jbat81]

If I had my way, only Pitman would show up. He'd walk up when announced, smile, and say "I am Guns N' Roses." And then walk away into the sunset.

And then he starts Silkworms?

[Limulus]

Functionally, Sorum's role was no different than Frank's.

Ali

this only works when your "functional" definiton is just smth. like "needing a drummer and stepping in", but in this case its misleading a lot. it more seems to be that functionally Frank added and re-recorded some drums/drum parts already being recorded by Brain/John in the first place, when Sorum played about 2 albums all himself (with the exception of "Civl War" and "My World"). add that the status of Brain not coming back wasnt that sure for a long time.
and speaking of the general role, which i do consider being more important for the band here, there are several quotes from Slash and Axl that Matt "saved the band", something i havent read or heard from Axl about Frank.

[LongGoneDay]

I have a ton of respect for what Steven brought to the band, and don't think he gets enough credit for it.
There is no question that he had a hand in shaping the majority of Guns N' Roses successful songs/records.

That said, GN'R didn't skip a beat as far as popularity goes when Matt stepped in.
In my, and many others opinions, the band started to die creatively when Izzy and Steven left, but they were still a powerhouse live.

The UYI records made GN'R even bigger than they already were with AFD, and the drummer those new fans saw behind the kit was Matt Sorum.
I get that Steven had already done the dirty work, and agree Steven walked into a once in a lifetime situation, but it's not as though they just snapped his picture and slapped it on the record sleeve of an album he had nothing to do with. He did record the majority of the UYI songs, and we don't know exactly how little or how much he contributed.
We have an idea listening to the demos, but as far as I know, there is a good amount of songs we haven't heard demos for.

Maybe Matt didn't help GN'R's popularity, but he didn't hinder it either.
Frank walked into a pretty cozy situation, but, no fault of his own, has not matched the impact Matt made.
Maybe it's just right place at the right time.
If Frank got the call back then, good chance he's being inducted come March.

[WAR41]

It's called reading comprehension. If someone exercises it, they won't end up making a straw-man argument.

Ali
[/quote]

Well then I guess none of us on this board are at your reading comprehension level oh great one.  See I can be condescending too! 

Stop getting defensive when some one disagrees with you.  Your argument is not as strong as you think it is. 

Moving on, is there anybody who is thinking of selling their tickets?  The more I see those prices they are going for the more I am contemplating selling.  I have a wedding and a kitchen renovation coming up.  Having those extra bucks could come in handy. 

[Ali]

It's called reading comprehension. If someone exercises it, they won't end up making a straw-man argument.

Ali

Well then I guess none of us on this board are at your reading comprehension level oh great one.  See I can be condescending too! 

Stop getting defensive when some one disagrees with you.  Your argument is not as strong as you think it is. 

Moving on, is there anybody who is thinking of selling their tickets?  The more I see those prices they are going for the more I am contemplating selling.  I have a wedding and a kitchen renovation coming up.  Having those extra bucks could come in handy. 
[/quote]

You already were condescending. Just throwing back what you were dishing out

Ali

[Ali]

Functionally, Sorum's role was no different than Frank's.

Ali

when Sorum played about 2 albums all himself (with the exception of "Civl War" and "My World").

Not true.  See Bridge's response for more detail.

Ali

[LongGoneDay]

The meat and potatoes of the UYI songs were written before Matt came aboard, but for what it's worth, Matt claims he didn't listen to Steven's demos.
He also says YCBM intro is one of his proudest moments.

Interesting stuff anyways..

http://musinq.net/ask-celebrities/ask-matt-sorum/ask-matt-sorum-a-question/#comment-101

[Ali]

The meat and potatoes of the UYI songs were written before Matt came aboard, but for what it's worth, Matt claims he didn't listen to Steven's demos.
He also says YCBM intro is one of his proudest moments.

Interesting stuff anyways..

http://musinq.net/ask-celebrities/ask-matt-sorum/ask-matt-sorum-a-question/#comment-101

That's funny because I saw video footage of him admitting Duff came up with that intro.  I don't buy that he didn't listen to the demos at all.

Ali

[Limulus]

Functionally, Sorum's role was no different than Frank's.

Ali

when Sorum played about 2 albums all himself (with the exception of "Civl War" and "My World").

Not true.  See Bridge's response for more detail.

Ali

Ali, IS true that you do hear MATT drumming on all 2 albums of the UYI songs with the exception of "Civil War" with Adler and "My World" being a no-real-drummer-song, there is no other drummer on those records! seeing it from this point my reply remains true, and this is a big difference for any "functional" comparism of Matt anf Frank.
we dont know how much of Steven's parts have been "covered" only, it doesnt matter here at all, it is him on studio drums, Matt Sorum, fact!
Frank only added or re-recorded a few songs/song parts when you do hear Matt's drumming himself all over UYI.
Besides that you left out my other points in the latest reply.

[Bodhi]

I can't believe this is still being discussed.  Matt was in the band at the height of their popularity and played drums on albums that sold millions that is why he is getting in...get over it.  Did he step in shit?  yeah kind of..but that's the way it goes sometimes.