Rock N Roll Hall Of Fame! Now it's official.

[ereeper]

How many songs do artists usually get for the induction show?  I thought three would be the most, but I like the sound of 5.  I'll stay out of the debate of who will and won't play that night.  I'll be there in my seat and just soak it all in at that time.

[Ali]

Matt and Frank's statuses in GN'R are exactly the same.  They just walked into different situations.  Both of are/were contracted band members.  That is fact.  The differentiation you are making is solely based on what they stepped into.  Their roles are exactly the same.

Ali

you keep talking about contract status's, the Hall of Fame doesn't give a shit.  The Hall of Fame goes by success, the Illusions were massively successful records, GNR played stadiums to support them, Matt was a part of that, Frank was not.

es the Hall as much as the rest of them?  That statement is comically ridiculous.  Fact is that Matt was no more a member of GN'R than any of the current members or Dizzy Reed. 

My comment about deserving it as much as the rest of them was referring to Steven not Matt.

Again, that's BS.  The HOF does not go by any strict standard.  The inductions are nonsensical  in many instances.  No shit Matt played on the UYIs and on the subsequent tour.  I know, I saw the fucking tour and got the records the day the came out.  The point is you're making him out to be more than what he ever was, which in reality is that his role was no different than Frank's current role.  None, zero, zilch.  The only difference is the situation they walked into, but that has nothing to do with them.

Ali

[Ali]

Matt and Frank's statuses in GN'R are exactly the same.  They just walked into different situations.  Both of are/were contracted band members.  That is fact.  The differentiation you are making is solely based on what they stepped into.  Their roles are exactly the same.

Ali

Wow, are you saying that timing shouldn't play a part in any of this?  If GNR started 10 years earlier or 10 years later many of us likely would have never heard the band because of the landscape of music at those times.  Timing is big in all aspects of life buddy.

And please don't think I am defending Matt.  I stated before that if it was only the original 5 being inducted that would be fine with me.  But with Matt being inducted I can see where they are coming from.  I don't know why this is such a big deal to you.  

You completely misunderstood everything I wrote. 

Ali

[Ali]

Matt and Frank's statuses in GN'R are exactly the same.  They just walked into different situations.  Both of are/were contracted band members.  That is fact.  The differentiation you are making is solely based on what they stepped into.  Their roles are exactly the same.

Ali

you keep talking about contract status's, the Hall of Fame doesn't give a shit.  The Hall of Fame goes by success, the Illusions were massively successful records, GNR played stadiums to support them, Matt was a part of that, Frank was not.

es the Hall as much as the rest of them?  That statement is comically ridiculous.  Fact is that Matt was no more a member of GN'R than any of the current members or Dizzy Reed. 

My comment about deserving it as much as the rest of them was referring to Steven not Matt.

Well it's tough to say exactly kind of impact Matt and Frank made on the records in my opinion.
Did Matt simply re-record what Steven had written? I've never read what they had to say about it.

I know I read that Brain had re-recorded Freese's parts, and was given pretty strict instructions to stay true to them.
That is a hired gun in every sense of the word to me.

I tend to think Matt had some freedom since his and Steven's styles are vastly different.
Still the blueprint was there for him. I'm not a Matt super fan. I prefer Steven's style, but I think Matt is a much better drummer than he's given credit for, especially on this site.

I like some of the drumming on Chinese. Some of it sounds dated to my ears, but I know Frank wasn't around during the writing process for all those songs.
I thought he was great live, and preferred his style to Brains.

Anyways, regardless of what impact either of them had on their respective albums, we know for sure that one was very successful. The other, not so much. Matt walked into a better situation than Frank did, though Frank didn't do too bad himself.

When I think of memorable drum parts and GN'R, YCBM and Locomotive are 2 of the first songs that come to mind.
He made his presence known on UYI in my opinion.

Steven recorded drum parts on demos for the UYI material.  From what I remember, the drum parts don't sound all that dissimilar, but it's been a while.

As far as the relative success comment, again, I think that's just a flawed argument because the success experienced by Matt Sorum had everything to do with what Axl, Izzy, Slash and Duff did, the material they wrote on UYI, and what they built preceding UYI on AFD.  You're giving Matt way too much credit.  He really didn't create the success he experienced, he just benefited from it.

And, that drum intro on YCBM was written by Duff, not Matt.  Matt said as much in a televised MTV special from the early 90's.

Ali

[sky dog]

that's what I'm talkin about....actually, let's just induct Axl-Izzy-Slash-Duff...no drummers.

[Ali]

that's what I'm talkin about....actually, let's just induct Axl-Izzy-Slash-Duff...no drummers who were just hitching a ride! 

Yeah, but I do think Matt made some contribution, but I don't think you can he was successful, or that he was the reason the UYIs were successful.  He experienced the success of the band, but that was more benefiting from the songwriting of Axl, Izzy, Slash and Duff.  Let's not play revisionist history and forget that many of the UYI songs were written before Matt joined the band.  The riffs, the melodies, the lyrics, ALL of that.  Matt stepped into a much different situation than Frank or Brain, but functionally, and for all intents and purposes, his role was the same as that of Frank and/or Brain.

Ali

[sky dog]

I know he made a contribution...love the drums on The Garden, Locomotive, Estranged, YCBM....great stuff. But, he was a contracted employee like many others after him, and I simply don't think he helped make the band a hall of fame band. The course was set prior to his arrival. Just my opinion.

[Ali]

I know he made a contribution...love the drums on The Garden, Locomotive, Estranged, YCBM....great stuff. But, he was a contracted employee like many others after him, and I simply don't think he helped make the band a hall of fame band. The course was set prior to his arrival. Just my opinion.

Those are exactly my points.  He was just a contracted employee and the course was set years prior to his arrival.

Ali

[draguns]

Shaking my head as to why this discussion is still taking place. Frank is good. I like this version of GNR. It's much better than Buckethead, Robin and Brain were in the band. HOWEVER, Matt and Dizzy were on the highly successful UYI albums. Frank and none of the new members weren't. Lets just enjoy the fact that GNR is being inducted and that's it.

[sky dog]

Nobody is saying the new guys should be inducted and I am quite sure we all appreciate their dedication and potential for the future. Dizzy is cool with me as far as getting in. Him and Matt came in at the same time. The rub is that Sorum bailed and Dizzy stayed. Dizzy, in the big picture, added a lot more to the Gnr "legacy" than Matt. 

[jemin]

Nobody is saying the new guys should be inducted and I am quite sure we all appreciate their dedication and potential for the future. Dizzy is cool with me as far as getting in. Him and Matt came in at the same time. The rub is that Sorum bailed and Dizzy stayed. Dizzy, in the big picture, added a lot more to the Gnr "legacy" than Matt. 

So it's because Dizzy stuck around?  That's why he should be in?  Also Matt didn't exactly bail, he got fired!  Big difference.

[sky dog]

Matt walked away...regardless, my arguments stand. I don't think he should be in. Sorry, like I said, I went to 7 uyi shows and loved them. However, I never once walked away saying "wow! that drummer was good!"

I just don't think he added anything significant to the Gnr legacy.

[Halo69]

I know he made a contribution...love the drums on The Garden, Locomotive, Estranged, YCBM....great stuff. But, he was a contracted employee like many others after him, and I simply don't think he helped make the band a hall of fame band. The course was set prior to his arrival. Just my opinion.

Those are exactly my points.  He was just a contracted employee and the course was set years prior to his arrival.

Ali

That is incorrect! Just because he was hired to replace Steven, doesn't mean he didn't help make the band what it was at that time.
He helped make some of the best songs from GNR. You Could Be Mine, is probably the most recognized song from GNR right after Jungle. And he was on the drums.
His work was greatly appreciated. I love his work on the Illusion records.
The only thing is... i think he has that "replacement" label on him all over, and that's why people didn't take Matt Sorum that seriously, and also the band broke up shortly after, so we didn't really have much time to enjoy Matt Sorum on the drums.

Matt Sorum is one of the best drummers in the World and i don't get it when people say he's nothing special... It's a different style really. Adler was more of a rhythm drummer, while Sorum is more of a hard rock pounding kind of drummer. You can't say one is better than the other. It's just a different style.

Also Sorum got that "label" on him for being a replacement, and also because he had that "fight" with Axl right before the break up. This is mainly the reason why people usually discredit Matt, which i think it's unfair.

Anyways, i definitely think Sorum should be inducted. And i think Gilby should be as well, even though i didn't really like him live.

[Bodhi]

I just don't think he added anything significant to the Gnr legacy.

I think a lot of things, the Rock Hall doesn't always agree.  They seem to think he is deserving of it.  Of all the judgement calls  i'd like to fight the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame on, them putting Matt Sorum in isn't one of them.  As much as I disagree with the Hall they put my 2 favorite bands in immediately as soon as they were eligible. (Metallica being the other)  So it is harder to be pissed at them these days.

[Fingers]

That being said....here's the set I would like to see for the show....

Original 5 play WTTJ, SCOM, Paradise City....then bring out Matt and Dizzy for YCBM and the finale, November Rain.

There's no way they are playing 5 songs-I think in the past, most bands played maybe 2, if that-remember there are 5 or 6 other artists inducted, I think

[Ali]

I know he made a contribution...love the drums on The Garden, Locomotive, Estranged, YCBM....great stuff. But, he was a contracted employee like many others after him, and I simply don't think he helped make the band a hall of fame band. The course was set prior to his arrival. Just my opinion.

Those are exactly my points.  He was just a contracted employee and the course was set years prior to his arrival.

Ali

That is incorrect! Just because he was hired to replace Steven, doesn't mean he didn't help make the band what it was at that time.
He helped make some of the best songs from GNR. You Could Be Mine, is probably the most recognized song from GNR right after Jungle. And he was on the drums.
His work was greatly appreciated. I love his work on the Illusion records.
The only thing is... i think he has that "replacement" label on him all over, and that's why people didn't take Matt Sorum that seriously, and also the band broke up shortly after, so we didn't really have much time to enjoy Matt Sorum on the drums.

Matt Sorum is one of the best drummers in the World and i don't get it when people say he's nothing special... It's a different style really. Adler was more of a rhythm drummer, while Sorum is more of a hard rock pounding kind of drummer. You can't say one is better than the other. It's just a different style.

Also Sorum got that "label" on him for being a replacement, and also because he had that "fight" with Axl right before the break up. This is mainly the reason why people usually discredit Matt, which i think it's unfair.

Anyways, i definitely think Sorum should be inducted. And i think Gilby should be as well, even though i didn't really like him live.

Like I said, Duff wrote the drum intro to YCBM. Nothing else you wrote proves why I'm incorrect, IMO.

Ali

[faldor]

That being said....here's the set I would like to see for the show....

Original 5 play WTTJ, SCOM, Paradise City....then bring out Matt and Dizzy for YCBM and the finale, November Rain.

There's no way they are playing 5 songs-I think in the past, most bands played maybe 2, if that-remember there are 5 or 6 other artists inducted, I think

Yeah, 5 songs seems like a bit much.  I could certainly see 3 though.  Both Laura Nyro and Freddie King are deceased.  I suppose they could have someone cover their works.  Donovan may play a song or two.  Same with The Faces.  Chili Peppers and Beastie Boys could play 2 songs, then HOPEFULLY GNR plays 3.

I'd enjoy something like this

Donovan - Atlantis
The Faces - Stay With Me
Beastie Boys - Fight For Your Right, So What'cha Want
Chili Peppers - Give It Away, Under The Bridge
GNR - WTTJ, SCOM, PC

[WAR41]

Matt and Frank's statuses in GN'R are exactly the same.  They just walked into different situations.  Both of are/were contracted band members.  That is fact.  The differentiation you are making is solely based on what they stepped into.  Their roles are exactly the same.

Ali

Wow, are you saying that timing shouldn't play a part in any of this?  If GNR started 10 years earlier or 10 years later many of us likely would have never heard the band because of the landscape of music at those times.  Timing is big in all aspects of life buddy.

And please don't think I am defending Matt.  I stated before that if it was only the original 5 being inducted that would be fine with me.  But with Matt being inducted I can see where they are coming from.  I don't know why this is such a big deal to you.  

You completely misunderstood everything I wrote. 

Ali

ROAR ME SO MAD!!!     Your e-toughness is through the roof Ali!

I didn't misunderstand what you wrote.  You said the only difference between the two is what they stepped into.  What each stepped into is a result of timing.  Matt came into the band to record the UYI albums and went on a multi-year world tour that sold out stadiums.  Frank, not so much. 

Your assumption that Matt didn't add anything original to the songs is laughable.  You make it sound like Axl, Izzy, Duff and Slash were standing over his shoulder telling him exactly what to do with each beat.  Matt is a professional and there is a reason why he was hired by the band. 

[WAR41]

That being said....here's the set I would like to see for the show....

Original 5 play WTTJ, SCOM, Paradise City....then bring out Matt and Dizzy for YCBM and the finale, November Rain.

There's no way they are playing 5 songs-I think in the past, most bands played maybe 2, if that-remember there are 5 or 6 other artists inducted, I think

Yeah, 5 songs seems like a bit much.  I could certainly see 3 though.  Both Laura Nyro and Freddie King are deceased.  I suppose they could have someone cover their works.  Donovan may play a song or two.  Same with The Faces.  Chili Peppers and Beastie Boys could play 2 songs, then HOPEFULLY GNR plays 3.

I'd enjoy something like this

Donovan - Atlantis
The Faces - Stay With Me
Beastie Boys - Fight For Your Right, So What'cha Want
Chili Peppers - Give It Away, Under The Bridge
GNR - WTTJ, SCOM, PC

Nice list faldor, but I think if Matt is going to be there we will hear a UYI song, likely November Rain in place of Paradise City.  WTTJ and SCOM are no brainers. 

[Ali]

Matt and Frank's statuses in GN'R are exactly the same.  They just walked into different situations.  Both of are/were contracted band members.  That is fact.  The differentiation you are making is solely based on what they stepped into.  Their roles are exactly the same.

Ali

Wow, are you saying that timing shouldn't play a part in any of this?  If GNR started 10 years earlier or 10 years later many of us likely would have never heard the band because of the landscape of music at those times.  Timing is big in all aspects of life buddy.

And please don't think I am defending Matt.  I stated before that if it was only the original 5 being inducted that would be fine with me.  But with Matt being inducted I can see where they are coming from.  I don't know why this is such a big deal to you.  

You completely misunderstood everything I wrote. 

Ali

ROAR ME SO MAD!!!     Your e-toughness is through the roof Ali!

I didn't misunderstand what you wrote.  You said the only difference between the two is what they stepped into.  What each stepped into is a result of timing.  Matt came into the band to record the UYI albums and went on a multi-year world tour that sold out stadiums.  Frank, not so much. 

Your assumption that Matt didn't add anything original to the songs is laughable.  You make it sound like Axl, Izzy, Duff and Slash were standing over his shoulder telling him exactly what to do with each beat.  Matt is a professional and there is a reason why he was hired by the band. 

Who's tryin to be an Internet tough guy? Not me. You just took what I said and made a ridiculous generalization, putting words in my mouth in the process. You're still doing that. 

The facts are these: many of the UYI songs were written or in the process of being written before Sorum was in the band. The course for those albums' success was set before he was in the band. Functionally, Sorum's role was no different than Frank's.

Ali