Rock N Roll Hall Of Fame! Now it's official.

[Ali]

Having seen the old band in 1992, as well as the new band, I can say that from my perspective it is not revisionist history.  I think that top to bottom, the new band is a better group of players.

And in turn, I'm going to say that it is revisionist history, having seen the original band in 1988.  The new band can play, there's no denying that.  But all incarnations of the new band have sorely lacked the attitude, fury, and chemistry of the band I saw in 1988.

I didn't see Guns in '92 but I think an issue with them then was all the well-documented problems were affecting their performance, not to mention that two original members were missing by this point (which is one major factor in me not wanting to see them live by that point).

Accurate marksmanship on the guitar isn't always what I'm looking for in a band, and I think a lot of others out there would agree.  I don't really care how great of a guitar player any of the new guys are/were, be they Ron, Fortus, Buckethead, etc.  None of them carried the mystique and rock n roll attitude of Slash, and that's more important to me than whether or not Slash hit every note the right way.

God knows Axl NEVER sang the songs the same way that we heard them on record.  When I saw them in '88, Axl was way off the mark in tone and sometimes off-key.  Anyone who has heard any bootlegs from that era knows what I'm talking about; that scratchy Axl voice was the one he always used live in those days.  But that was okay, because he made up for that in showmanship and rock n roll attitude.

Whatever reasons or excuses may exist in your mind as to what was going on in '92 is immaterial to the question of skill and playing ability. I'll take Ron and Richard over Slash and Izzy as far as playing goes any day. That's ultimately why I think they're a better live band.

Ali

[Eclipsed107]

People keep saying that this band is getting in because of Appetite.  This is true

Prove it. Prove it and I'll move away from here. That's my whole reason to still be arguing here.

Dude.

Guns N? Roses may have began as just another long-haired band trying to make it on the L.A. Sunset Strip club scene, but when they unleashed their debut LP Appetite For Destruction on the world in 1987, they instantly established themselves as one the most dynamic and explosive hard rock bands in history. In many ways, they became the Rolling Stones for a new generation. While their peers produced glossy songs that romanticized the party atmosphere of mid-1980s Los Angeles, frontman Axl Rose, guitarist Slash, drummer Steven Adler, rhythm guitarist Izzy Stradlin and bassist Duff McKagan wrote about the gritty realities of the scene, most memorably on their masterpiece ?Welcome To The Jungle.?  The massive single ?Sweet Child O? Mine? showed their gentler side, while ?Mr. Brownstone? was a brilliant cautionary tale about the dangers of heroin. In 1991, inspired by Queen and Elton John, they released the highly ambitious Use Your Illusion albums on the same day. Epic singles ?November Rain? and ?Civil War? proved how quickly the band had evolved in a few short years, and they were soon packing stadiums all across the globe. When the tour wrapped in late 1993, the band paid tribute to their 1970s hard rock, punk and glam heroes by recording an album of covers called The Spaghetti Incident. The band took a long break starting in 1994, but in the new millennium Axl Rose brought a brand new line-up of Guns N? Roses on the road and in 2008 they released their long-awaited album Chinese Democracy. In recent years, Rose has welcomed original members Duff McKagan and Izzy Stradlin onto his stage - but he remains committed to the new lineup and they remain a touring juggernaut.

half of the biography is about AFD.  One year of their career.  The other half of their biography covers the next 24 years of their career.  Think about that.

The "Legacy and Acheivments" section of Wikipedia for Appetite for Destruction

Legacy and achievements

Appetite for Destruction debuted at position 182 on the Billboard 200 on August 29, 1987.[13] The album reached number one on the chart on September 24, 1988, 50 weeks after its first appearance.[14] It spent four weeks at the top of the chart,[15] and a total of 147 weeks on the Billboard 200.[13]

    In 1989 Rolling Stone ranked Appetite for Destruction as the 27th best album of the 1980s. [16]
    The same magazine later ranked it at sixty-one on their list of the 500 Greatest Albums of All Time.[17]
    In 2001, Q magazine named Appetite for Destruction as one of the 50 Heaviest Albums of All Time.[18]
    In 2004, Q magazine also named Appetite for Destruction as one of the greatest Classic rock Albums Ever.[19]
    In 2003, VH1 named Appetite for Destruction the 42nd Greatest Album of All Time.[20]
    In 2002, Pitchfork Media ranked Appetite for Destruction 59th on their Top 100 Albums of the 1980s.[21]
    It was ranked 18 in Spin magazine's "100 Greatest Albums, 1985-2005".[22]
    In 2006, Kerrang! ranked the album #1 on the list of best rock albums.[23]
    The album was ranked 32 on Rock Hall of Fame's 'definitive 200' album list, developed by the NARM, the National Association of Recording Merchandisers.[24]
    In 2006, Q magazine placed the album at #10 in its list of "40 Best Albums of the '80s".[25]
    In 2006, the album was placed No. 2 on Guitar World magazine's list of the 100 Greatest Guitar Albums of All Time.[26]
    Music critic Piero Scaruffi includes Appetite for Destruction at number 4, just after Kyuss' Blues for the Red Sun and before Jane's Addiction's Nothing's Shocking, in his classification of the best metal albums of all times.[27]
    In 2011, Australian radio station Triple M listed Appetite For Destruction #1 in their list of the 250 most life changing albums.

None of their other albums has ever had the achievements like the above mentioned or could ever live up to the legacy of AFD.

Worldwide sales
AFD = 28 million+ sold
Lies + Illusions + TSI? + CD = Around 21 - 23 million sold

Hell, even the AFD cover is an iconic cover where none of their other covers are iconic.

Listen, of course Gn'R is being inducted on more than JUST Appetite, but if you can't see that 97% of the reason their being inducted is because of AFD and that AFD is their legacy and will ALWAYS be their legacy you're just fooling yourself. 
 

[Lucky]

back in 2001... guns had already sold 70mil plus records, back then that was the official figure. unfortunately hasnt been updated since.

and UYIS definitely sold 11mils each soon after they've been released. even the live albums managed to sell millions.

[HBK]

People keep saying that this band is getting in because of Appetite.  This is true

Prove it. Prove it and I'll move away from here. That's my whole reason to still be arguing here.

Dude.

Guns N? Roses may have began as just another long-haired band trying to make it on the L.A. Sunset Strip club scene, but when they unleashed their debut LP Appetite For Destruction on the world in 1987, they instantly established themselves as one the most dynamic and explosive hard rock bands in history. In many ways, they became the Rolling Stones for a new generation. While their peers produced glossy songs that romanticized the party atmosphere of mid-1980s Los Angeles, frontman Axl Rose, guitarist Slash, drummer Steven Adler, rhythm guitarist Izzy Stradlin and bassist Duff McKagan wrote about the gritty realities of the scene, most memorably on their masterpiece ?Welcome To The Jungle.?  The massive single ?Sweet Child O? Mine? showed their gentler side, while ?Mr. Brownstone? was a brilliant cautionary tale about the dangers of heroin. In 1991, inspired by Queen and Elton John, they released the highly ambitious Use Your Illusion albums on the same day. Epic singles ?November Rain? and ?Civil War? proved how quickly the band had evolved in a few short years, and they were soon packing stadiums all across the globe. When the tour wrapped in late 1993, the band paid tribute to their 1970s hard rock, punk and glam heroes by recording an album of covers called The Spaghetti Incident. The band took a long break starting in 1994, but in the new millennium Axl Rose brought a brand new line-up of Guns N? Roses on the road and in 2008 they released their long-awaited album Chinese Democracy. In recent years, Rose has welcomed original members Duff McKagan and Izzy Stradlin onto his stage - but he remains committed to the new lineup and they remain a touring juggernaut.

half of the biography is about AFD.  One year of their career.  The other half of their biography covers the next 24 years of their career.  Think about that.

The "Legacy and Acheivments" section of Wikipedia for Appetite for Destruction

Legacy and achievements

Appetite for Destruction debuted at position 182 on the Billboard 200 on August 29, 1987.[13] The album reached number one on the chart on September 24, 1988, 50 weeks after its first appearance.[14] It spent four weeks at the top of the chart,[15] and a total of 147 weeks on the Billboard 200.[13]

    In 1989 Rolling Stone ranked Appetite for Destruction as the 27th best album of the 1980s. [16]
    The same magazine later ranked it at sixty-one on their list of the 500 Greatest Albums of All Time.[17]
    In 2001, Q magazine named Appetite for Destruction as one of the 50 Heaviest Albums of All Time.[18]
    In 2004, Q magazine also named Appetite for Destruction as one of the greatest Classic rock Albums Ever.[19]
    In 2003, VH1 named Appetite for Destruction the 42nd Greatest Album of All Time.[20]
    In 2002, Pitchfork Media ranked Appetite for Destruction 59th on their Top 100 Albums of the 1980s.[21]
    It was ranked 18 in Spin magazine's "100 Greatest Albums, 1985-2005".[22]
    In 2006, Kerrang! ranked the album #1 on the list of best rock albums.[23]
    The album was ranked 32 on Rock Hall of Fame's 'definitive 200' album list, developed by the NARM, the National Association of Recording Merchandisers.[24]
    In 2006, Q magazine placed the album at #10 in its list of "40 Best Albums of the '80s".[25]
    In 2006, the album was placed No. 2 on Guitar World magazine's list of the 100 Greatest Guitar Albums of All Time.[26]
    Music critic Piero Scaruffi includes Appetite for Destruction at number 4, just after Kyuss' Blues for the Red Sun and before Jane's Addiction's Nothing's Shocking, in his classification of the best metal albums of all times.[27]
    In 2011, Australian radio station Triple M listed Appetite For Destruction #1 in their list of the 250 most life changing albums.

None of their other albums has ever had the achievements like the above mentioned or could ever live up to the legacy of AFD.

Worldwide sales
AFD = 28 million+ sold
Lies + Illusions + TSI? + CD = Around 21 - 23 million sold

Hell, even the AFD cover is an iconic cover where none of their other covers are iconic.

Listen, of course Gn'R is being inducted on more than JUST Appetite, but if you can't see that 97% of the reason their being inducted is because of AFD and that AFD is their legacy and will ALWAYS be their legacy you're just fooling yourself. 
 

1985 -? Fundation
1987 -? Disc Debut/AFD
1991 -? Evolution Ilussions
2001 -? Back, New Music, Members
2008 -? ChinDemo, Epic Disc, GnR Back !@

Others -? Lies, TSI, LiveEra, GH, Tours, etc.

History = 27 Years, Inducted -? GUNS N' ROSES !@ Not AFD.

[Eclipsed107]

back in 2001... guns had already sold 70mil plus records, back then that was the official figure. unfortunately hasnt been updated since.

and UYIS definitely sold 11mils each soon after they've been released. even the live albums managed to sell millions.

shit, was looking at the USA album sales for the rest of the albums.  Thanks for the correction.

1985 -? Fundation
1987 -? Disc Debut/AFD
1991 -? Evolution Ilussions
2001 -? Back, New Music, Members
2008 -? ChinDemo, Epic Disc, GnR Back !@

Others -? Lies, TSI, LiveEra, GH, Tours, etc.

History = 27 Years, Inducted -? GUNS N' ROSES !@ Not AFD.

I'm not saying AFD is being inducted, I'm saying the reason Gn'R is being inducted is because of AFD and it's success.  Obviously if they didn't have any success after AFD they wouldn't be considered for this honor but Gn'R's legacy is AFD and you can't deny that.

[jazjme]

Jesus Christ, we all every one of us live once, lol, As fans we should be just fucking happy the  band we loved well for me since its incarnation and through every unknowing circumstances has been honored. Stop fucking nitpicking the who should ,who shouldn't, for fuck sake, I am you are we all all GNR fans, whatever happens at induxtion will happen, GNR arnt going anywhere!!! with or without that honor, so fucking stop comparing, its really getting fucking annoying!.

[alexander]

Some very strange opinions in here. 

Here's the question to ask.  Are Guns N Roses being inducted into the rock n roll hall of fame for what they have achieved from 2008 till current day?  The answer is of course no.  They are being induxcted because of the 100 million pluis albums they have sold.  Because of the tens of millions of fans that have seen them.  Because of the power of thier live shows from 1987 onwards.  Because of thier attitude that brough a nastiness back to rock back in the suckful 80s and 90s.  99 percent of why they have been inducted, like it or not, has nothing to do with the new band.

Dont get me wrong, I love the new band, ive seen them twice.  But i dont kid myself.  GNR as a whole is founded on the achievements of the orininal line up.  If Axl showed up with the new band I think this would attract a shit load of bad reactions, and rightly so.  Him and Slash may never play together again, and that is ok, but no need to piss on the past any more that they all already have. 

I would think there will be no GNR show at the cerimony...... because of all the reasons Ive just listed.  And if you asked DJ, or Frank, or Tommy......do you honestly think they would want to do the gig as if they had something to do with the induction?

[Chuzeville]

If Metallica invited Dave Mustaine to celebrate the 30th anniversary onstage with them, Axl could probably be around Slash for one night. 

[donaltduck313]

I have been watching some peoples comments concerning this Hall of Fame thing n how they praise new band n thinking kind of new band should only be there n play there in this ceremony. It is just so ridiculous  to read this kind of s*** that lets just hope none of original or Illusion line up will appear there none but Axl n Dizzy n let them along the new line-up take all the glory of whole 27 years GNR career. Yes right new band should be introduced there only cos they kind of created this GNR legacy. Slash, Duff, Izzy n Steven have nothing to do with GNR or their music they have absolutely nothing to do that we know band Guns N Fuckin Roses they have nothing to do that millions of people did fall in love with songs like Paradise City, Welcome to the Jungle, Sweet child o'mine. Yes Sla$h and co just happened to be in band when those marvelous albums like Appetite n Illusions got released n they just happened to be in band when Guns became BIGGEST F***** BAND IN THE WORLD, thats right they were just lucky sons of b**** who were lucky enough to be in right place in right time, they dont even anymore know how to play those songs, think they never did. Thanks GOD we have this new lineup here (only good enough lineup) n they are GNR now, always been n always gonna be. Forget about those old f**** like Sla$h, Duff n Izzy n Steven and GOD save Guns N Roses

end of this f***** story

[Halo69]

I do like New GNR, but comparing Bumblefoot or Fortus to Izzy and Slash is kinda ridiculous and pointless as well...

[Bodhi]

If Metallica invited Dave Mustaine to celebrate the 30th anniversary onstage with them, Axl could probably be around Slash for one night. 

Everybody is different.  Since none of us know exactly what happened between Axl and Slash you can't really compare it to the Dave/Metallica thing, and even if we did know what happened you can't judge how one person feels about another.

Having said that, it's hard to imagine Axl and Slash's stuff being more fucked up than what Metallica did to Dave.  They traveled  California to NY to record their debut album,  kicked him out of the band the week before recording it, then left him at a bus stop without a dime to his name.  Metallica replaces him and uses all of Dave Mustaine's music for Kill Em All and goes on to be one of the biggest bands of all-time.  Its hard to think of a way to fuck some one over worse than that.

  The bottom line is for whatever reason Axl has, he wants nothing to do with Slash.  I cant imagine a Hall of Fame ceremony being the sole thing that  changes his mind.   Axl is going to do what he wants, period.  If wants to go he will if doesn't he wont.

[GeorgeSteele]

Mixed feelings about this award.  I get that it's an honor and all, but going to the place where Johnny Rotten said "old rockers go to die" just at the time when the band is at the apex of its rejuvenation seems wrong.  More importantly, it makes me feel old.

[BangoSkank]

Essentially, I see this going down in much the same way that "Behind the Music" did: negating all that Axl and the current band have done - attempting to pitch them as a faux GN'R.  

That's not a valid comparison.  The "Behind the Music" aired in 2004, before Axl released Chinese Democracy and before he started registering some solid touring.  At the time, Axl hadn't released an album, and his 2002 tour had been fraught with no-shows and riots, so there was nothing for "Behind the Music" to cover in the way of his new band.

Fair point.  But can you honestly say that you expect Axl's latest accomplishments to be given their due?  Everyone knows the old band kicked ass and yes this ceremony is about honoring them, but, given how things like this have turned out in the past and how much the media tends to negate Axl to begin with, I see no reason to expect that the Hall of Fame ceremony will not try to imply that: "this is the real Guns N Roses, Axl's doing something cool, but these guys were it."

[LongGoneDay]

If Metallica invited Dave Mustaine to celebrate the 30th anniversary onstage with them, Axl could probably be around Slash for one night. 

Everybody is different.  Since none of us know exactly what happened between Axl and Slash you can't really compare it to the Dave/Metallica thing, and even if we did know what happened you can't judge how one person feels about another.

Having said that, it's hard to imagine Axl and Slash's stuff being more fucked up than what Metallica did to Dave.  They traveled  California to NY to record their debut album,  kicked him out of the band the week before recording it, then left him at a bus stop without a dime to his name.  Metallica replaces him and uses all of Dave Mustaine's music for Kill Em All and goes on to be one of the biggest bands of all-time.  Its hard to think of a way to fuck some one over worse than that.

  The bottom line is for whatever reason Axl has, he wants nothing to do with Slash.  I cant imagine a Hall of Fame ceremony being the sole thing that  changes his mind.   Axl is going to do what he wants, period.  If wants to go he will if doesn't he wont.

Straying from the topic, but just to add, Mustaine has writing credits up to Ride the Lightning, and claims to have helped write parts of Master of Puppets I believe.
In my opinion, that leaves Metallica with one great record without some assistance of Mustaine, as they shot their load with AJFA in my opinion.

So yeah, if they can get over their differences, anything would seem to be possible. I'm not holding my breath with Axl and Slash, though.
One thing Axl has always seemed to be consistent with not taking much ownership over any wrong doing, in just about any situation. It's cool, if  he needs that chip on his shoulder, and that's the personality it requires to write the music and put on the type of show he does, but I would imagine it'd be a tall task to make amends with someone like that.

[gnrfan1797]

Blah-blah-blah...Screw the HOF and whatever rules they have or don't have.
There's no rock n' roll attitude in it anyway

Let's just see what happens,whatever that is,i'm sure we'll like it ! 
[/quote]


Couldn't have said it any better

[GW2]

I can't help but feel that the HOF inducted GNR at this time just drum up press for their ceremony. If there is any band in the world that deserves the HOF recognition it's GNR.

I find it very difficult to believe that the classic line up will show up and play together when you consider the level of animosity that exists between Axl and Slash. It would be nice if both of them could could sit down, admit to each other their parts in how the relationship became shattered and come to an understanding. When you hold a resentment against someone you simply allow them free rent to take up space in your head. There is no way either person will be able to avoid the shadow of the other. They are forever linked through the incredible music they made together. They both will always be asked about the other.

This may be unpopular but this is my belief. The only thing that could have made Chinese Democracy better was Slash. The only thing that could have made Velvet Revolver better was Axl. I hope that for just one night both of them can swallow their egos and pride and do what's right by the people who got them there in the first place. Their fans. A big sacrifice on their part? Yes. But if there was ever a time to put your fans above your own personal convictions, this is it.

[Bodhi]

I can't help but feel that the HOF inducted GNR at this time just drum up press for their ceremony. If there is any band in the world that deserves the HOF recognition it's GNR.

I keep on seeing stuff like this, and it baffles me.  Guns N Roses were eligible for the first time this year and they got in.  THAT is why they into the Hall of Fame, because they deserve it.  It has nothing to do with anything else.  There is not one band who is not in the Hall of Fame who deserve it more than GNR, so to say this is a publicity stunt is crazy.

[Limulus]

But if there was ever a time to put your fans above your own personal convictions, this is it.

excellent words!!

[LunsJail]

But if there was ever a time to put your fans above your own personal convictions, this is it.

excellent words!!

Ha! But with most of the "fans" it wouldn't stop there. Everyone would be clamoring for a full blown reunion tour. If they did that, we would all want a new album. I don't see Axl participating in something like this when he's worked so much to establish his current band's acceptance.

[Limulus]

that could be some fixed in advance from both sides:
press release, some video/audio interview and also "live" words on the HOF itself that it's be a one-off only (Slash/Axl playing live together there), even with contracts (with 1st rule: NO SUING!!!  )

and off course fans and media will never stop asking for a re-union as long as they're alive! and as they luckily are, at least some talking/hug could do it IMO. egos and pride shouldnt ruin that night.