Rock N Roll Hall Of Fame! Now it's official.

[downzy56]

But who says they have to bill it as "Guns N' Roses?"  If the HOF has any interest in Slash, Duff, Izzy, Matt, and Adler be part of the performance, they could simply play but under no moniker or name.  They don't have to be introduced as Guns N' Roses.  Axl may control the name "Guns N' Roses," but that does not prevent him from having those being inducted into performing.  What we know for sure is that Guns N' Roses (that being Axl, Slash, Izzy, Duff, Steven, Matt and Dizzy) is being inducted into the Hall and that all original members and those being inducted will be there.  You claim that I'm speculating, but to say that invitations to current members are sent out or that extra tickets awarded to Axl and Dizzy will be given to current members is also speculation.  Furthermore, there would have to be arraignments set up to have current members play.  The question for the HOF is: what is more important - having all members being inducted show up and receive the award or satisfying Axl in having his band perform?  The only choice Axl gets is who he wants to play with, not who gets to play. 

The extra tickets thing isn't speculation.  It's fact. I don't have a hard number, but each inductee gets a ticket allotment for friends and family. Check it if you don't believe me.  

Buying tickets because they were available to the public is also fact.

And you're making my point with the rest.  Read what I wrote.  IF THE HOF want GNR to play...it's the lineup Axl approves.  You just said as much, AGAIN. That gives Axl a pretty hefty amount of leverage...no matter how much some people want to ignore it.  It's GNR being inducted....holding the rights to that name gives him some clout in the discussions.

Sure, the HOF could contract with "Loaded Snakepit" to play...at the Guns n Roses induction...and risk pissing off Axl, a mountain of fans, and a good chunk of those in attendance.  They haven't done that in the past, though.  They've usually contracted whatever current incarnation of the band, as it exists, to play.  There's a reason for that.  

You can speculate that would change...but there's nothing to substantiate that it will.  There's HISTORY that supports the alternative.

And nothing says the former members can't accept...and not perform.  Not to beat a dead horse: Witness the Blondie induction.

Do you think the HOF doesn't REALLY want GnR on the bill as performing?  To the point they'd make some reasonable (all things considered) concessions to get them there?  REALLY?  The former members left.  Of their own accord (well, except for Matt).

The HOF may just want to avoid the whole situation and have current HOF members or musicians who GNR influenced play in their place.  If Axl comes to the HOF and insists on only playing with his current band and no one else, do you think the HOF would be down with that?  Considering the flack they took with Blondie and Van Halen, I seriously doubt it.

Doubt away.  History shows they'd be on board.  Nothing supports or shows they've changed their mind/mindset.

They MIGHT not have ANY members perform....I see that as more likely than "Loaded Snakepit" performing sans Axl.

Still supports my initial point, though...

The Blondie is history, but like I said, I really doubt the HOF wants a repeat of that situation.  The HOF already has huge problems with legitimacy.  Do you think they want another headache in allowing what many see as an illegitimate form of GNR perform at the band's induction ceremony?  If a guy like Slash wants to play, trust me, the HOF is going to figure out a way for him to play.  May not be with Axl, but if they're interested in keeping another icon from souring on the HOF, they will accommodate him.

Doubt away.  But there's no history, comments, or actions to support that doubt.  The HOF has done what they've done, historically.

Slash might play.   He won't likely play under the moniker of GnR, or with Axl.  

Which, again, makes my original point, again: Those expecting to see the original lineup of GnR play will likely be disappointed

Ugh, one time does not make a pattern.  You keep mentioning Blondie, but ask yourself, how well did that work for the HOF?  Don't you think they've learned from that one experience where former and current members were feuding?  To suggest that the HOF is willing to commit the same mistake because that's what was done ONCE before is naive.  Had they known that Infante and Harrison were going to be such a problem and create such a shit-storm on stage, I can't see them going the same direction that they did.  Maybe you do, but from a PR standpoint, nobody won in that respect.  Not the former members, not the current members, and certainly not the HOF. 

Moreover, the guys whining to get onstage weren't even original band members of Blondie, nor were they the driving creative force behind the band.  Blondie had already been a band for three years before Infante and Harrison joined the band.  It's a completely different situation with Guns.  To say that former members like Slash, Duff and Izzy will be awarded the same treatment as those guys in Blondie is not congruent to the facts.  There has never been a situation in HOF that equals this level of both turmoil and deserved  consideration to former members. 

You may say it's part of history, but I believe that an institution such as the HOF, which so desperately seeks legitimacy, will have learned from its mismanagement of a similar (but not equal) situation and look to improve future issues.  It's going to look ridiculous if those inducted into the HOF have to then sit down and watch guys who weren't around (save for Axl and Dizzy) during the band's hey-day to perform the very songs that got them into the HOF. 

I believe the HOF will put its own interests first BECAUSE of the debacle that was the Blondie's induction.  You obviously believe they don't care and would rather stick to what was done ONCE and again appear to look like idiots for not trying to remedy the situation.  It maybe Guns N' Roses' induction, but it's still the HOF's ceremony.

Cheers,

Andrew

[pilferk]

Axl said some pretty terrible things about Izzy when he left in '91-basically "F**K Izzy Stradlin, here's Gilby Clarke", and after the Metallica tour, he would dedicate Double Talkin' JIve to Lars Ulrich-just sayin', it possible

True.

But we haven't seen any signs of reconciliation with Steven and, especially, with Slash.

That's the kicker.

[pilferk]

Ugh, one time does not make a pattern.  You keep mentioning Blondie, but ask yourself, how well did that work for the HOF?  Don't you think they've learned from that one experience where former and current members were feuding?  To suggest that the HOF is willing to commit the same mistake because that's what was done ONCE before is naive.  Had they known that Infante and Harrison were going to be such a problem and create such a shit-storm on stage, I can't see them going the same direction that they did.  Maybe you do, but from a PR standpoint, nobody won in that respect.  Not the former members, not the current members, and certainly not the HOF. 

A pattern? No.

A precedent? Yes.

And you're simply speculating they'll deviate from it...when they haven't done, said, or indicated that they will, EVER. 

We ONLY KNOW what's happened.  We ONLY KNOW what the HOF has done, has said, and has shown.  That's what we KNOW.

Everything else is unfounded.  Period.  You might think it's the greatest logical leap in the history of mankind...but there's still no evidence to support it. 

And it all belies the fact that they can't have ANYTHING called Guns n Roses on stage without Axl's consent.  Which was what I originally said, basically, that you took issue with.  That's the truth.  I'm not sure why we're still even discussing this....because you simply can't argue that fact away.

The HOF WANTS the bands being inducted to play...meaning when Metallica is inducted, they want Metallica to play (not every former member of Metallica...the band as it currently exists).  They don't ALWAYS get that (usually because the band has significant members who are deceased), but it's what they want.  Metallica was gracious enough to invite Newstead...but they didn't have to.  They could have simply gone on with Trujillo.

The only point you can make is that maybe, possibly, against what they've done in the past, the HOF might invite everyone else EXCEPT Axl to perform.....under a completely different band name.....which would effectively exclude Axl (and GnR's voice) from performing. I can't think of any time they've done that where the membership is largely alive.  I'm not sure I see the logic behind THAT being a better (or more popular, or more commercially successful) decision, either.

Sure, you can argue that's not an impossible scenario...but it's not what's been done previously.  And there's been no information that would indicate the HOF has decided to adopt that direction.  You argue that the Blondie situation isn't a pattern...but it's SOMETHING.

Moreover, the guys whining to get onstage weren't even original band members of Blondie, nor were they the driving creative force behind the band.  Blondie had already been a band for three years before Infante and Harrison joined the band.  It's a completely different situation with Guns.  To say that former members like Slash, Duff and Izzy will be awarded the same treatment as those guys in Blondie is not congruent to the facts.  There has never been a situation in HOF that equals this level of both turmoil and deserved  consideration to former members. 

It's only different in that Blondie's specific situation was different.  Few analogies are 1:1.  But it's pretty damn close.

It's the same because, like with Blondie, Infante and Harrison had no claim to the name of the band (just like Duff, Izzy, Slash, and Steven don't)....so had no say in who would get to perform as Blondie.  They had no input, whatsoever.  That wasn't because the HOF didn't WANT them to...it's because that, legally, they didn't.  And the HOF wanted Blondie to perform....so they go Blondie, as it existed on that day. 

Which you continue to try to perform mental gymnastics to get around.  But you can't.  It's the truth.  It will remain the truth.

You may say it's part of history, but I believe that an institution such as the HOF, which so desperately seeks legitimacy, will have learned from its mismanagement of a similar (but not equal) situation and look to improve future issues.  It's going to look ridiculous if those inducted into the HOF have to then sit down and watch guys who weren't around (save for Axl and Dizzy) during the band's hey-day to perform the very songs that got them into the HOF. 

I believe the HOF will put its own interests first BECAUSE of the debacle that was the Blondie's induction.  You obviously believe they don't care and would rather stick to what was done ONCE and again appear to look like idiots for not trying to remedy the situation.  It maybe Guns N' Roses' induction, but it's still the HOF's ceremony.

Cheers,

Andrew

The difference is: In one case we're going on measurable, quantifiable, actual events.  In the other we're going on your supposition that things might change, without a single piece of evidence to support it.  It's conjecture.

What looks likely to happen is that the HOF is going to want something with the name Guns n Roses to perform at Guns n Roses induction.  I don't think that's a stretch, since, again, there's precedent that it's true....there's a good chunk of evidence that shows that's what they want (not to mention...the HOF has proven itself to be a largely commercial venture...and the artists being inducted sell tickets).  Now, likely doesn't mean definite...but that's what we've seen, so I don't see a more "likely" scenario brewing.  So, if the HOF want Guns n Roses, they'll get whatever Axl decides to put up on stage.  It's as simple as that.

I know there are others who want desperately for the HOF to "Force" some sort of reunion.  They can't. They could ask....they could beg...but they can't MAKE it happen.

Likely, ou are either going to get Axl performing with whatever incarnation of Guns n Roses he sees fit to assemble.

Or you're going to get some version of "Velvet Loaded Snakepit's Appetite", with no Axl.

Either way, as I said in my very first post (which you responded to) the outcome, and my point, is the same: Those hoping to see the original lineup perform together are likely going to be disappointed.

Given what we've seen, I think the first option is FAR more likely than the second....because there's history that's shown that's what has happened in the past.  You might disagree, and think things will change...but all you really have to go on is (as you keep saying) your own belief. 

Fair enough.  But lets call a spade, a spade.

[ITARocker]

Yaaawn.

 It's just about jumpin' on a stage, havin' fun for 15-20 minutes & letting fans be happy. I don't see any difficult, they're not going to war. So...just bury the hatchet for a fuck*n while, have a drink or two and then go home. Next day you can just go on with your life, and maybe with less enemies.

[pilferk]

Yaaawn.

 It's just about jumpin' on a stage, havin' fun for 15-20 minutes & letting fans be happy. I don't see any difficult, they're not going to war. So...just bury the hatchet for a fuck*n while, have a drink or two and then go home. Next day you can just go on with your life, and maybe with less enemies.

I think that sums up what most people WISH would happen.

We've got 15 years of stuff that would lead you to believe it's probably not what WILL happen...unfortunately.

Anyway, with that being said..I think I've run the course on this one.  We're just chasing our tails.  Can't wait to see the induction....it'll be interesting.

[pilferk]

pilferk - still focused on the NYC shows! One more night... Wish you and your girl were here brother!

Sounds like you got a good one, last night.

No one wishes we were there last night more than me!

Unfortunately, big doings here at work today....gotta be at the top of my game.

[Bandita]

i dont even think the recent band members would have a problem with the classic line-up performing a couple of songs, some of them repeatedly said how much they like the old Guns. they've booked a summer european tour and just talked about the possibility of writing/creating new songs (or so, latest Dizzy-Int.), so there definately is some sort of plan with the recent members to go on. and if they make it clear in advance that i'd be a one-off @ the HOF + saying it again on the live broadcast....there aint a problem with this, huh?
who knows, maybe they make some peace that Slash even will play 1-2 songs with the new line-up (like Izzy in 2006, Duff in 2010/11)? sometimes this band is full of surprises 

It sounds odd...but how the more recent members would ACTUALLY feel doesn't matter as much as how Axl THINKS they might feel, and if Axl thinks he's disrespecting, slighting, or insulting them. 

Aslo, it can be said til people are blue in the face that it's a one off.

The fact is: It wouldn't be taken that way, and it would raise expectations and fuel the cries (making them louder) of the "reunionists".

I don't think Axl wants any part of that.

I like to scroll through the posts I missed before I type something and it appears you have typed exactly what I was going to say.  Still, when this so called reunion doesn't happen (like some people here expect it should) I expect there will be backlash stating Axl slighted the old guys and yadda, yadda.  No, he did not.  This is what you all have to remember.  The band imploded way back then and he did what he had to do legally to retain the rights and move forward if and when he wished to.  The guys in the current line up work their ASSES off every night even though some douchebags are still in the crowd yelling for Slash and Izzy.  It's so disrespectful and I get so pissed when one of those losers is standing near me at a show.  There are people on here that have it in their head that this reunion IS going to happen and I honestly and truly believe it won't.  I believe there will be cordial acceptance that is bittersweet.  The HOF can't make Axl do anything and they won't.  Things will not work out well for anyone if they even try.  He has made it clear OVER and OVER that the current guys are the people he wants to work with.  Anyone that has seen a recent show can plainly see the ease with which these guys work and mesh together. 

[downzy56]

I think ultimately it'll be a decision made by the HOF as to how they want the ceremony to be remembered by.  Pilferk and I obviously disagree as to who holds all the cards in the situation (he believes it Axl, I believe it to be the HOF), but I just don't see a situation where the guys who are being inducted will be asked to sit down following acceptance and watch only current members take the stage and perform.  It happened once with Blondie and it was a disaster.   Everyone involved came off looking pretty bad in that situation.  Pilferk believes that because it happened once it will happen again.  I'd like to think that those running the show (the coordinators at the HOF) won't want to create the same debacle.  Maybe I'm wrong, but you've got to believe that after Axl wraps up this current theatre tour attention will be given to how the whole thing will work out.  If Axl feels like the only way he'll play is if only current members are allowed to join him on stage, I don't see how a cordial acceptance of the award will come about with former members.

Make no mistake, GNR material will be performed at the ceremony, but it's still unsure as to who will be on the stage.  Perhaps no members, past or present, will be asked to play and other legends and contemporary musicians who see GNR as an influence on their development will play.  Happened when the Beatles were inducted, with Axl and Springsteen singing Come Together.

Considering Axl has recently played with Duff, and seems to have no problem with Izzy joining his current band, I just don't see why there would be issues with a few former members joining the stage to play with some of the current members.  Slash and Steven could give their acceptance speech along with Duff and Izzy, and Duff and Izzy could then join Axl and current members on stage where Axl would give his acceptance speech and then perform. 

Just because Axl owns the controlling rights to the name doesn't mean Slash will be marginalized out of the ceremony.  He's not a nobody in the history of Rock N' Roll.  Whether you like him or not, agree or disagree with his musicianship or character, the man will be given his due at the ceremony. 

Either way, it should be interesting.

Cheers,

Andrew

[LongGoneDay]

I'm not expecting the reunion to happen, but I don't think it's as far fetched as I would have this time last year.
From what I've heard in interviews, the guys seem honored/humbled to be inducted. I'm not expecting them to play together.
If I really thought it was going to happen, I would drop the $1,000+ it would take to get in there.

I don't think it's Axl that "holds the cards" so to speak. They all do. Axl can choose whether to play with the alumni or not, sure. Same can be said for Slash, Izzy, Duff, and Steven. I don't think the current lineup gracing the stage holds as much clout as some others seem to. Safe to say the majority of GN'R fans around the world want to see the AFD-UYI lineup perform. The HOF knows this.
Next best thing would be to see any combination of AFD/UYI members performing. What they are billed as means little to nothing in my opinion. The current lineup would be closer to the last resort, because really, they are irrelevant (sans Axl and Dizzy obviously) to the award and event. 7 members are being inducted, and those 7 are the ones most people are tuning in to see perform.

[samoice]

The best thing that axl could do is , accept the award with old band then come out with new band to play. BUT play Sorry and look at slash 

[Birk]

Ive noticed ticket prices have gone up on stubhub and ebay for these tickets

[vicariousexistence]

Axl said some pretty terrible things about Izzy when he left in '91-basically "F**K Izzy Stradlin, here's Gilby Clarke", and after the Metallica tour, he would dedicate Double Talkin' JIve to Lars Ulrich-just sayin', it possible

True.

But we haven't seen any signs of reconciliation with Steven and, especially, with Slash.

That's the kicker.

steven and axl did have that all-night sitdown talk in 06 or 07.  doesnt sound like they've talked since but that they got along just fine when they were in the same room.

[Alan]

I'd like to see them all on stage together to accept the award, but the more I think about it the less I want the full AFD line up to play together.

It would be cool to have Slash/Duff introduce Guns N' Roses as they currently are, then have original guys guest on different songs with them.

[One.In.A.Million]

Axl said some pretty terrible things about Izzy when he left in '91-basically "F**K Izzy Stradlin, here's Gilby Clarke", and after the Metallica tour, he would dedicate Double Talkin' JIve to Lars Ulrich-just sayin', it possible

True.

But we haven't seen any signs of reconciliation with Steven and, especially, with Slash.

That's the kicker.

steven and axl did have that all-night sitdown talk in 06 or 07.  doesnt sound like they've talked since but that they got along just fine when they were in the same room.

Yes, apparently the story is that Steven went along to GN'Rs shows at The Joint in Las Vegas on the 16th and 17th of September in 2006. I myself went to these shows as well, and flew from the UK.....but I personally never had any idea Steven was there until I read it online a few months after.

But it's been said that Steven and Axl got along great, and talked at length about old times. And if I remember correctly both Axl and Steven have confirmed the meeting.....

In Axls' case he said something along the lines of how they chatted for a while and had a good time. But it could never go beyond that because Stevens mom would be trying for a full on reunion, because that's what she's like.

And in Stevens case he said that Axl kept on smiling, and they chatted at great length all night long. And Steven even went as far as to say that members of current GN'R at that time was agreeing with himself, about the original GN'R getting together for a few shows.

So yes, Axl and Steven have already made ammends, and have no issues at all. 

[Bandita]

Didn't Axl make it abundantly clear in a recent interview he doesn't really even care so much about the award itself but rather that it means so much for the fans to be inducted?

I can't wait to see what actually happens but I have a feeling that whomever spent money on tickets to this with blind hope of a massive reunion...well, those folks are going to be disappointed.

I just don't think Steven really deserves to perform and I believe it would just send the wrong message to him personally (and his Mom).

[snead hearn]

The Mrs. got me/us tickets for Christmas. Obviously cannot wait to see everything!

Will it be nice to see the original GNR line up onstage to accept the award? YES. Will it be mind blowing if the original lineup play one or a few songs together for just one night? OF COURSE! Would I expect anything with the original lineup to occur after that night? HELL NO. Not one damn thing. Whatever the current state of affairs, lineups or whatnot-times and things for everyone involved have moved on. Let's just have it happen, celebrate and then move on.

Personally, I'm a million times more psyched to see the whole Faces/Small Faces induction. HUGE Faces fan and never got to see them. And I know they were a big Guns influence. And can't wait for the Beasties and Peppers too.

[sky dog]

Axl said some pretty terrible things about Izzy when he left in '91-basically "F**K Izzy Stradlin, here's Gilby Clarke", and after the Metallica tour, he would dedicate Double Talkin' JIve to Lars Ulrich-just sayin', it possible

True.

But we haven't seen any signs of reconciliation with Steven and, especially, with Slash.

That's the kicker.

steven and axl did have that all-night sitdown talk in 06 or 07.  doesnt sound like they've talked since but that they got along just fine when they were in the same room.

Yes, apparently the story is that Steven went along to GN'Rs shows at The Joint in Las Vegas on the 16th and 17th of September in 2006. I myself went to these shows as well, and flew from the UK.....but I personally never had any idea Steven was there until I read it online a few months after.

But it's been said that Steven and Axl got along great, and talked at length about old times. And if I remember correctly both Axl and Steven have confirmed the meeting.....

In Axls' case he said something along the lines of how they chatted for a while and had a good time. But it could never go beyond that because Stevens mom would be trying for a full on reunion, because that's what she's like.

And in Stevens case he said that Axl kept on smiling, and they chatted at great length all night long. And Steven even went as far as to say that members of current GN'R at that time was agreeing with himself, about the original GN'R getting together for a few shows.

So yes, Axl and Steven have already made ammends, and have no issues at all. 

To say they have no issues at all is a bit presumptious. You are talking about something from 5-6 years ago! Not only that, since then, Steven has ran his big mouth constantly in the press...some things not so positive about Axl. We have no idea what Axl really thinks about Steven at this point.

[One.In.A.Million]

Axl said some pretty terrible things about Izzy when he left in '91-basically "F**K Izzy Stradlin, here's Gilby Clarke", and after the Metallica tour, he would dedicate Double Talkin' JIve to Lars Ulrich-just sayin', it possible

True.

But we haven't seen any signs of reconciliation with Steven and, especially, with Slash.

That's the kicker.

steven and axl did have that all-night sitdown talk in 06 or 07.  doesnt sound like they've talked since but that they got along just fine when they were in the same room.

Yes, apparently the story is that Steven went along to GN'Rs shows at The Joint in Las Vegas on the 16th and 17th of September in 2006. I myself went to these shows as well, and flew from the UK.....but I personally never had any idea Steven was there until I read it online a few months after.

But it's been said that Steven and Axl got along great, and talked at length about old times. And if I remember correctly both Axl and Steven have confirmed the meeting.....

In Axls' case he said something along the lines of how they chatted for a while and had a good time. But it could never go beyond that because Stevens mom would be trying for a full on reunion, because that's what she's like.

And in Stevens case he said that Axl kept on smiling, and they chatted at great length all night long. And Steven even went as far as to say that members of current GN'R at that time was agreeing with himself, about the original GN'R getting together for a few shows.

So yes, Axl and Steven have already made ammends, and have no issues at all. 

To say they have no issues at all is a bit presumptious. You are talking about something from 5-6 years ago! Not only that, since then, Steven has ran his big mouth constantly in the press...some things not so positive about Axl. We have no idea what Axl really thinks about Steven at this point.

Why are some people hell bent on making drama between bandmembers that probably don't exist. 

Steven has not bad mouthed Axl in any drasticly bad way, and certainly hasn't said anything anymore negative than what he has said before 2006. No they are not best friends, but it sounds as if they was never really close, if we remember all of the stories about him and Axl getting into physical fights in the old days. But in the notion of things, they have reconcilled and made peace with each other, just like Axl and Duff.

I actually think that out of the original 5, Steven has actually been the most complimentary to Axl. And with Steven you know it's genuine, because he can't be any other way, that's how he is.

So no they aren't best buddies anymore......same as Axl and Duff. But they have atleast made the effort to both give positive vibes back to each other. That's a good thing, and I don't see anything drastic in the last 5 years that would have made Axl change his opinion about Steven again.

 

Some people love drama...

[sky dog]

You have no clue about their relationship or lack thereof.     It has nothing to do with drama.

[Bandita]

It has nothing to do with drama but can we please be realistic?  Steven is a serious drug addict that lets his Mom hawk his old memorabilia.  Who in their right mind would want to get involved with that?  No one hates the guy but let's face it:  he is a hot mess.  The last thing he needs right now is to be thinking he is going to be part of some massive reunion.  I don't think he would honestly get that it would be a one off thing.  Duff? YES.  Izzy?  YES.  Slash?  PROBABLY.  But how can you say yes to one but not another---it would just be weird.