'Live ?!*@ Like A Suicide' Vinyl & Cassette Buyers Guide

[Tickets There]

(Duplicating from 'BUY PRODUCT' as I'm not sure where it would belong - delete as needed)

Hi all,

I've finally gotten round to publishing a Live ?!*@ Like A Suicide buyers guide. I'm pretty sure all the hints, tips and tricks for spotting a fake copy are included but I'd really appreciate any help you guys can give as I've only ever seen a handful of these in real life.

If you have anything to add I'll be happy to add a credit for your name (and/or website) to the piece. Click the link below to see all,

http://ticketsthere.com/2011/11/13/guns-n%E2%80%99-roses-%E2%80%93-live-like-a-suicide-vinyl-cassette-buyers-guide/

Cheers,
Rob

[troccoli]

Good job, but what do you mean when you say the band member's names are in white?  They appear in red to my eyes.  The song titles are in white.

[Tickets There]

Good job, but what do you mean when you say the band member's names are in white?  They appear in red to my eyes.  The song titles are in white.

Hi troccoli,

You just made me a happy man, this is why I needed another pair of eyes. That was a mistake and I've updated the artile now. Thanks a million for spotting this!

Cheers,
Rob

[spookeend]

Good thing on the shrink wrap thing.
Does anyone know for sure it was ever provided in shrink many years ago?

For all i have seen online, and the few i have seen in real life, all with plastic or shrink, open or sealed were boots.

[Tickets There]

Good thing on the shrink wrap thing.
Does anyone know for sure it was ever provided in shrink many years ago?

For all i have seen online, and the few i have seen in real life, all with plastic or shrink, open or sealed were boots.

Not 100% sure but I believe it was. I've seen several record stores from LA and California selling the record so I'm presuming these are coming from local fans, but that could all be guess work. never trust em I say and thanks for reinforcing that message!

Also just a side note, I will be updating the Cassette info soon, but there isn't much to add for this. Just more 'LIES's spotting if anything.

Cheers,
Rob

[williambailey]

They were definitely released in shrink wrap. A few years ago Alan Niven got rid of the remaining copies of LLAS that he had they were still sealed in the shrink wrap.

[Tickets There]

They were definitely released in shrink wrap. A few years ago Alan Niven got rid of the remaining copies of LLAS that he had they were still sealed in the shrink wrap.

Thanks a lot for confirming, would you mind me adding that fact to the piece to let people know some shrink wrapped copies are genuine? Personally I'd love a wrapped copy but unless Axl Rose sells one to me, I ain't trusting them :p G

[williambailey]

Yeah by all means you can use that info in your guide.

Interesting too that you mention in your guide that 25,000 copies were pressed but only 10,000 released.  Where did you get that info from?

I always see the 10,000 number, but Niven told me when I bought the vinyl off him that he recalls that 25,000 copies of both were made.  So you're right with the figure, but I assume that it includes cassettes,  although there seems to be far fewer cassettes come up for sale compared to the vinyl.  Maybe people tended to throw them away or they got broken a lot more compared to the vinyl. Strangely too whilst the cassettes don't come up for sale anywhere near as often as the vinyl they sell for less, I guess fewer people collect cassettes compared to vinyl.

Anyhow here is some other factual information about the release you might want to use that I got direct from Niven way back when I bought a couple of sealed copies of the vinyl from him:

Live Like A Suicide was only manufactured on vinyl and cassette, total number of both items was, to my best memory 25,000 units, which I sold to Important records, an indy distributor of the day. They were manufactured by Warner Bros on my request, with care to ensure there were no markings whatsoever to link the discs to Geffen or their manufacturer. [Of course, the fact that the band were already signed to a major was somehow overlooked as I got these out in the guise of an indy record. The $40,000 I got from Important funded the first foray into Europe, Hamburg, Dusseldorf and the first three Marquee shows - and the momentum was thus begun].

[Tickets There]

Yeah by all means you can use that info in your guide.

Interesting too that you mention in your guide that 25,000 copies were pressed but only 10,000 released.  Where did you get that info from?

I always see the 10,000 number, but Niven told me when I bought the vinyl off him that he recalls that 25,000 copies of both were made.  So you're right with the figure, but I assume that it includes cassettes,  although there seems to be far fewer cassettes come up for sale compared to the vinyl.  Maybe people tended to throw them away or they got broken a lot more compared to the vinyl. Strangely too whilst the cassettes don't come up for sale anywhere near as often as the vinyl they sell for less, I guess fewer people collect cassettes compared to vinyl.

Anyhow here is some other factual information about the release you might want to use that I got direct from Niven way back when I bought a couple of sealed copies of the vinyl from him:

Live Like A Suicide was only manufactured on vinyl and cassette, total number of both items was, to my best memory 25,000 units, which I sold to Important records, an indy distributor of the day. They were manufactured by Warner Bros on my request, with care to ensure there were no markings whatsoever to link the discs to Geffen or their manufacturer. [Of course, the fact that the band were already signed to a major was somehow overlooked as I got these out in the guise of an indy record. The $40,000 I got from Important funded the first foray into Europe, Hamburg, Dusseldorf and the first three Marquee shows - and the momentum was thus begun].

This is great stuff, thanks so much. I'll update the article with it now As for the 25,000 copies, I've seen that in several sources over the years but have never been able to work out why 25,000 would be printed but only 10,000 sold. It was a theory that maybe the other 15,000 were damaged or not printed properly and those are the ones in circulation as fakes - but haven't seen anything to support this. Surely they didn?t have 15,000 friends and family to give away those copies to?

For cassettes, everything I?ve seen points to their number being included in the 10-25K numbers. I?m always trying to find out more details about this but the 10-25K numbers always refer to the number of copies printed of the EP total, not specifically to the vinyl pressing. I?ve never been able to find an exact number of cassettes that were released but like you say they rarely pop up. I suppose this is down to the fact that people don?t want to fork out $100 for a tape and would rather save the money for a record. Also any existing copies are  probably storied away in a box in someone?s house and aren?t even remembered anymore. I?ve seen several reports of people finding them in second hand shops, charity shops and flea markets hidden away in the middle of massive cassette sales for like a $1.

What?s weird is, I started looking a few years ago if people have ever sold the vinyl and cassette together and any sale I found seemed to go for a lot less than the value of the record alone so if you?re in the market, maybe that?s the best way to buy both 

[wadey]

Ive owned 6 suicides over the years and 1 was a def fake cos of the shade of black and weight of the vinyl. But all 6 had "sterling" stamped near the matrix. The embossing wasnt as clear on the fake but it was still present though.

[Tickets There]

Ive owned 6 suicides over the years and 1 was a def fake cos of the shade of black and weight of the vinyl. But all 6 had "sterling" stamped near the matrix. The embossing wasnt as clear on the fake but it was still present though.

Ah that doesn't help much  Was the black colour and the weight the only give away? I have seen a few people comment that STERLING didn't appear on fake copies they've owned so either people are overlooking it or there are several versions of fakes in circulation. 

[wadey]

The sleeve was thicker card and the black was more bold rather than the red tint. The art work and text appeared to be the same though. The vinyl had all the matrix etch etc but appeared more heavyweigt and didnt flex as much as the original. The "sterling" however wasnt as clear and appeared to fade at one end. Am i right in thinking that the pressing plant got the vinyl blanks with sterling already on and then pressed the rest of the info on etc, cos the sterling on the fake did look like an afterthought to be fair. Im on my mobile at present but i might have some pics in my pc files, ill try to find time to have a look

[troccoli]

Cassettes came sealed too, I have one that is still sealed (only one I've seen though that still is).

[Tickets There]

Thanks a lot guys! Wadey - if you have a picture of the fake 'STERLING' stamp I'd love to add it into the post if that's ok with you? Same For the sealed tape troccoli, I'll be doing a proper update for the cassette part in the next week or so.

Cheers guys and appreciate your inputs on this, between us all we'll figure out a final tell between fakes and genuine copies 

[Tickets There]

Hi all,

Just a note to say I've updated the 'STERLING' part to reflect wadey's feedback above. Also, the Cassette section is now complete with lots of pics added to the gallery.

[spookeend]

as for the 10.000 or 25.000 copies difference....

As i have understood, there were 25.000 made, and though there might not have been 15.000 friends and family members, giving away that big of a number of disc is not that uncommon for that era of time.
For sure there were many thing given away in clubs back in the days. Even now, copies of "demo" released 1 ep's or something like that will be given away at many little bands gigs.

And, seeing those many (stated, at any given moment there are a few copies for sale somewhere) there are in circulation (not thinking of any fakes to make it easy), i think 25.000 being really made is a more realistic number to go on as the 10.000 number.

Note, these are just my 2 cents of thinking, as it has been a mystical item for many years, some of this thinking might be because of older stories arround the web..... Sorry.....

[wadey]

Hi all,

Just a note to say I've updated the 'STERLING' part to reflect wadey's feedback above. Also, the Cassette section is now complete with lots of pics added to the gallery.

Hi, cant find the Pics unfortunately but im still looking though. I can remember though the fake "STERLING" was upside down compared to the matrix etc

found one of my old suicide threads with some more info though

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=56598.0

slight difference between 2 original copies, or at least i think there both original cos its the only difference i could find

could everyone check thier copy to see if the letter "A" is stamped in the centre of the vinyl

[spookeend]

Letter A is stamped on both sides of the disccenter here.

[Tickets There]

Yep 'A' is here too and it appears on every copy I've seen and in most high quality pics, but it's not uncommon for vinyl presses to use different version of vinyl for a pressing if they don't have enough in one batch; especially smaller pressers. Thought that might be the reason behind the STERLING stamp at one stage but no joy. Damn this ep, pain in the a*s 

[wadey]

Definately a pain in the ass mate, Its been driving me nuts for years! Ill have a look at my cassette later and compare it with your guide