Matt Sorum: 'November Rain And Estranged Were Originally One Complete Song'

[FunkyMonkey]

From Matt Sorum:

Axl first played the finished version of November Rain for me in the parking lot of El Compadre on Sunset Blvd. He had a killer car stereo . Slash n Duff stayed inside drinking

Oh yah It is a November Rain. Piece of trivia November Rain and Estranged were originally one complete song, a very long song

Hence similar to drum fills in Don't Cry, NR and Estranged the idea was they were tied together as a trilogy. Axl and I discussed the fills as an idea

21 hours ago via UberSocial for BlackBerry

[russkwtx]

According to Matt, he saw himself as a central player in GNR who was in on all the classic songs instead of a guy they hired to finish an album and do a tour.

[m_rated96]

Well he wasn't that - read Axls interview with Del James in 1993 part 3

[metallex78]

According to Matt, he saw himself as a central player in GNR who was in on all the classic songs instead of a guy they hired to finish an album and do a tour.

And, what's your point...?

[metallex78]

Well he wasn't that - read Axls interview with Del James in 1993 part 3

Read part two, Axl says that he is, or was.

DEL: Is he a "member" of Guns N' Roses?

AXL: This "member" thing is quite interesting, I read in an interview where Matt [Sorum, drummer] said that if he didn't get made a member, he wasn't going to be in Guns N' Roses. The truth of the matter is, Matt's a member of GN'R, but it doesn't really mean anything. It's kind of like a clubhouse/gang thing. We're all members of this gang. What it boils down to is, whose yard is the tree house in? Matt's a member of GN'R, and his opinions are taken into consideration. As far as that's concerned, Gilby is a member too, Dizzy is a member of the band. With all the background singers, horn players, keyboardists - we look at it like we're all Guns N' Roses. But the bottom line is, the business is basically run by Slash and myself. Then we run whatever it is we're discussing by Duff and see if he's cool with it. Guns N' Roses is basically Slash, Duff, Doug Goldstein and myself, but there's a lot of other people involved that are a part of our lives and a part of our family.

[Smoking Guns]

So, looks like in 1993, Axl thought Slash was more than someone that wrote a few key riffs...

[Ali]

So, looks like in 1993, Axl thought Slash was more than someone that wrote a few key riffs...

I think that LA Times quote was likely taken out of context.

Ali

[metallex78]

So, looks like in 1993, Axl thought Slash was more than someone that wrote a few key riffs...

I think that LA Times quote was likely taken out of context.

Ali

Why? Because Axl has conflicting stories from when he actually got along with Slash? 

[Limulus]

everyone has made some weird statements about the golden GN'R era 1985-1993. Axl being more realistic often but recently he shoot some out-of-reality-words aswell. for whatever reasons those seem to be based on some sort of goal to disrespect his old buddies, mainly Slash.

[Ali]

So, looks like in 1993, Axl thought Slash was more than someone that wrote a few key riffs...

I think that LA Times quote was likely taken out of context.

Ali

Why? Because Axl has conflicting stories from when he actually got along with Slash? 

No, because it wasn't direct quote from the LA Times story and it was mentioned in relation to the formation of the band.  I think the statement was likely in reference to the creation of Appetite for Destruction.  Izzy had more of an imprint on that record musically.  Slash's contribution was secondary to Izzy's on that record from a musical standpoint.  On the UYIs, Slash and Axl became larger contributors musically, as evidenced by the songwriting credits.

Ali

[BumbleBuzz]

I don't think what Matt is saying is true, although if November Rain and Don't Cry were written around 1985, then I see no reason why Estranged wouldn't be too

If they had released a 17 minute "single" I'd of laughed my head off though

[rebelhipi]

I don't think what Matt is saying is true, although if November Rain and Don't Cry were written around 1985, then I see no reason why Estranged wouldn't be too

If they had released a 17 minute "single" I'd of laughed my head off though

estanged is written around the time when axl broke up with his then wife erin this is 89-90

[Bridge]

estanged is written around the time when axl broke up with his then wife erin this is 89-90

Axl's marriage to Erin was annulled in early 1991.  The song was already written by this point and underwent preliminary recordings in 1990; this was documented in a few magazine interviews regarding the upcoming albums (which were Use Your Illusion).  The song was tentatively titled "Without You".

[BumbleBuzz]

The song was tentatively titled "Without You".

Well we certainly know why they didn't use that title, given their "colourful" history with Motley Crue at the time

[MJ23]

Back then from our gnrsource website:

Axl: There's also a song tentatively titled "Without You". Last night, I wrote a whole new intro to that. It just appeared out of nowhere, like the verses - just little pieces that have come whole.1

Axl: My friend Del James wrote us a short story called "Without You" that was influenced by me and my ex-wife in some ways. And   I ended up writing a song that fit that story, which was "Estranged".

Axl: I feel "November Rain" and "Estranged" have a chance at getting embedded in music culture, so I'm gonna fight for them and seed them with as many people as possible. I get bummed when I hear a great track off a record and the artist says, "Yeah, but the public wasn't into it." I'm like, what do you mean? The public wasn't into "Jungle," either.2

Slash: "November Rain" and "Estranged", Axl's been kicking around for a while, and I've heard him screwing with little ideas on the piano for them.

Slash: On some songs, like "Estranged," I take the tone knob and I turn it all the way down on that particular pickup.

Axl: There's something really wild, for me, in performing "Estranged" 'cause all of a sudden I realized I don't want to be sitting at the piano playing this song to keep the energy of the song moving live. I need to be moving around and there's something about being able to be up there moving around during it that's actually a present, a gift or something. Being able to dance and rejoice in a song. That came from situations and emotions that were killing me. You know, we pretty much mean everything we say. We don't put anything down that we're not willing to stand behind or attempt to stand by for the duration.3

Slash: It's one of Axl's babies, where he sat down and he had something he really wanted to express, and he wrote it on piano. And so there came the time when the band had to figure out where these? where the bass is gonna come in, where the guitar is gonna come in. This and that. And so, I did all the guitar arrangements on it. And wrote? umm, like, the guitar melodies, which are pretty important to the song now, I would say. 'Cause you recognize 'em, you know. And? That's that. That's? that's why I have credit on it.4

Slash: "Estranged" is something that I like playing, but I have to concentrate, because I have to make sure those melodies are happening.5

Axl: [I'd like to hear] Nine Inch Nails do anything, do "Estranged".6

Slash: Axl generally tinkered around on the piano or sat and listened to some of the ideas we'd worked out. All things considered, we managed to produce a few good tunes: "Estranged", "Bad Apples" and "Garden of Eden". Over all, I found our time in Chicago to be a huge waste.7

Slash: "Estranged" was a song that Axl had been working out on piano for a long time - he'd been playing the same parts over and over in Chicago and afterward; it was clear that it was working itself out in the head. I had started writing guitar parts for it back in Chicago, so it came together in no time once we focused on it.8

The footnotes 1-8 are:
1 Axl (1989.08.10). The Rolling Stone Interview - Axl Rose. Del James for Rolling Stone. Read April 5, 2008. http://www.gnrsource.com/articles/1989/08rs-axl.htm
2 Axl (1992.04.02). I, Axl - Part III. Del James for Rip Magazine. Read April 5, 2008. http://www.gnrsource.com/articles/1992/xx-rip3.htm
3 Axl (1992). Axl Gets In The Ring. Chris Nadler for Metallix. Read April 5, 2008. http://hem.passagen.se/snoqalf/m-meaning3.html
4 Slash (September 1991). GnR on WNEW 102,7. Tommy Nast for Heavy Mental. Read April 5, 2008. http://www.gnrsource.com/articles/1991/09-wnew.htm
5 Slash (November 1992). Guitar From The Gut. John Stix for guitar For The Practicing Musician. Read April 5, 2008. http://rattlesnakesuitcase.com/2006/06/14/guitar-for-the-practicing-musician-guitar-from-the-gut-1992/
6 Axl (1992). Axl Gets In The Ring. Chris Nadler for Metallix. Read April 5, 2008. http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=76
7 Slash with Anthony Bozza (2007: p.262) Slash. Harper Collins
8 Slash with Anthony Bozza (2007: p.298) Slash. Harper Collins