NHL 2011/2012 Season

[Alan]

Lockouts will happen in all sports when a CBA expires after what happened to Baseball while Fehr was head of the players union.

2005 players could have avoided the lockout and got themselves a better deal, they wasted a season and got a worse one.

Same will happen this time.

Bettman has done an excellent job growing the game, the lockouts are on the owners not him.

[Sober_times]

Lockouts will happen in all sports when a CBA expires after what happened to Baseball while Fehr was head of the players union.

2005 players could have avoided the lockout and got themselves a better deal, they wasted a season and got a worse one.

Same will happen this time.

Bettman has done an excellent job growing the game, the lockouts are on the owners not him.

Bettman has not done a good job growing the game. He has done bad television contracts and expanded in areas that were not right to expand in. He has done a horrible job overall in acting as NHL commissioner. Not just because of both lock outs but that is a factor. By all accounts he is a main reason why they are in another lockout. He didn't have the foresight to see that teams would take advantage of the language in the last deal to offer stupid contracts that put forward this lockout. He is by far the worst commissioner and has done more to hurt the game than help it. This a majority opinion not a minority one. He is a problem.

[Alan]

His job is growing the game.

The league has got record revenues year after year during his time in charge.

It is not opinion that he's grown the game it's fact.

People hate him for the lockouts, which is fine for him, because it means his bosses (the owners) don't get the heat.

The reason there is a lockout is because costs have risen faster than revenues, and the big markets have seen more growth than the small ones, this causes the smaller teams to lose money hence the need for a lockout to fix this.

Now onto him putting teams in the wrong places. Anything 1993 or earlier can be discounted.

Colorado Avalanche - solid franchise making money - success
Phoenix Coyotes - bleeding money - failure
Carolina Hurricanes - Solid stable franchise, success
Nashville Predators - Solid stable franchise, success
Atlanta Thrashers - bombed under Atlanta Spirit Group ownership and were relocated - failure
Columbus Blue Jackets - teams sucks but are stable. - not a huge success but not a failure by any means.
Minnesota Wild - Solid franchise sells out frequently and just saw a huge jump in season ticket sales - success
Winnipeg Jets - Sold out the arena for the next 5 years, success.

Looks like he has teams in the right places, fixed one 'mistake' and has one left to fix.

He signed the biggest television contract the NHL has seen, and got every game of the playoffs onto US national television, the cable deal has the NHL as it's main sport so it's not buried on ESPN like it was previously, I'd love to see the explanation of why the TV contact is bad.

I don't think anyone expected teams to start loading cheap years onto the back end of a contract which a player will never play on.

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And now away from Bettman's past and onto the present.

The NHL first approached the Fehr's PA to talk CBA at the 2011 All-Star game. This shot down because Fehr needed to check things over etc.

The second NHL approach to the PA came in the 2011 off season, Fehr was still gathering information,

The third attempt at CBA negotiation again instigated by the NHL, the 2012 All-Star game, this excuse is quite an important one for later points, 'the majority players can't work on a CBA and be playing at the same time, we'll talk at the end of the season.

The fourth attempt at CBA negotiation was again the NHL trying to talk to the PA, we'll talk after the playoffs.

The fifth attempt from the NHL after the cup final was met with, we'll talk in July.

The first time the NHLPA agreed to negotiations was when the Sept 15th date for a lockout was set, however they also said a lockout isn't needed, we can play under the current CBA and work on a new one at the same time.

So it took 18 months and 5 failed attempts before the PA would even entertain talks over a new CBA.

Now prior to that the NHL and the PA under Kelly were actually already working on a new CBA, but the players wanted a war, axed Kelly and hired Fehr.

Now Fehr's history regarding strikes immediately meant there was no chance in hell the NHL would not lock the players out if an agreement couldn't be reached.

Since September 15th the NHL have moved significantly off their initial offer. Offered an additional $220M in revenue sharing, have said they'd pay for all players to have their own hotel rooms, pay for any extra opinions players need on injuries, and hire extra medical staff for them.

The NHLPA have moved off theirs once, and that was yesterday, and it wasn't far.

The basis of the first 4/5 'offers' from the PA was guaranteed money and guaranteed raises, which may or may not reach a 50% split on HRR over the course of the deal. Infact Bill Daly gave a spreadsheet based on the PA's numbers to a journalist and it showed that under the players most recently proposal before this week they would have gotten somewhere between 60-77% of revenues from the 2012-13 season.

The NHL called their bluff on guaranteed pay for contracts already signed part of the deal with 'make whole' which while it isn't going to guarantee every cent gets paid out, it did ensure for the first 3 years every contract signed would be covered, after that it is assumed(using the PA's own numbers) HRR would have risen enough to cover it.

This led to Steve Fehr claiming that the players 'were losing billions' under the NHL's proposal, not actually true at all, the NHLPA have lost more money by not agreeing to the last or second last NHL deal than they would have by agreeing to it. The downside for them is that the same thing as last time will happen, the NHL will not continue to improve offers, they will start to get worse as more of the season is missed.
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As for players calling Bettman an idiot or a cancer in Versteeg's case.

Fehr really should have put a gag order on them, they've come off as absolute morons on social media and in the regular media.

[tim_m]

Atlanta was just a total disaster. The ownership group was terrible and had no intention of making the team a success. I hope the Coyotes can stay put. That's a good young team there. If they get a good owner like the former San Jose guy i think they can be profitable in Glendale.

[Alan]

The Coyotes lost $25M+ last year, this has been going on for a while, they should have been moved when they filed for bankruptcy and the league took control of them.

Bettman's biggest fault in my eyes is not moving them out of Glendale.

Quebec or Seattle would be my first choices, ideally Seattle to spread travel out a little more evenly and to give Vancouver a natural rival.

[tim_m]

I think that's partially due to a shitty lease agreement with their arena. The place sells out. I saw how excited people were during their playoff run last year. Hopefully things will change with new ownership. I agree about teams in those cities though. It seems just wrong still not seeing a team in Quebc

[Alan]

I think it's mainly to do with the fact they moved from Phoenix into Glendale.

The arena in Glendale has a capacity of 17,125
Since the lockout these are the Coyotes average attendance.

2005/06 - 15,582 (22nd in the NHL)
2006/07 - 14,988 (24th in the NHL)
2007/08 - 14,820 (second lowest in the NHL)
2008/09 - 14,875 (third lowest in the NHL)
2009/10 - 11,989 (lowest in the NHL)
2010/11 - 12,188 (second lowest in the NHL)
2011/12 - 12,420 (lowest in the NHL)

The sad thing about this is as the team has gotten better attendances have dropped.

And the sellouts they achieved are often on the back of big/Canadian teams, I know there are a load of people from Edmonton fly out to watch the Oilers there because it's cheaper to fly and watch them in Phoenix than it is to watch them in Edmonton.

[tim_m]

That's very strange it dropped so sharply as they got better. Hope the new ownership can turn it around somehow. I know they can't leave Glendale cause of the lease to return to Phoenix.

[Alan]

Depends on council elections in January.

They could overturn the lease agreement if a new council gets in, because the city giving $25M a year to a hockey team is kinda insane when the city itself is broke.

[CheapJon]

I'm so tired of reading about all lock-out shit.


However I do enjoy reading what you write Al and Tim 

[tim_m]

Me too. Part of me wishes they'd just go ahead and cancel the rest of the season at this point.

[Alan]

Based on what far more informed people than me are saying that could happen December 15th.

There has been one positive from this lockout however. I actually have a normal sleeping pattern.

Also regarding the Phoenix situation, there has been a petition put forward to have a referendum on the lease agreement, it needs 6,900 signatures.

In actual hockey playing news, the new Oilers defenceman Justin Schultz is apparently some form of god.

Top 3 in AHL scoring

1 Justin Schultz Oklahoma City Barons 20GP 11G 20A 31Pts
2 Jordan Eberle Oklahoma City Barons 20GP 12G 15A 27Pts
3 Tyler Johnson Syracuse Crunch 20GP 15G 8A 23Pts

[tim_m]

December 15th? I know the players and owners plan to meet without Fehr or Bettman. Surely it'll be before then though.

[CheapJon]

December 15th? I know the players and owners plan to meet without Fehr or Bettman. Surely it'll be before then though.

Yeah, they are meeting today. That's not what Alan was talking about though. As of right now, all games are cancelled until december 14. The next time they might go ahead and cancel the whole season.


It could be a pretty fine world championships in may if the whole season gets cancelled. Played in Sweden as well. However, that's about the only positive thing about it. Rangers would've had a good chance this season.

[tim_m]

December 15th? I know the players and owners plan to meet without Fehr or Bettman. Surely it'll be before then though.

Yeah, they are meeting today. That's not what Alan was talking about though. As of right now, all games are cancelled until december 14. The next time they might go ahead and cancel the whole season.


It could be a pretty fine world championships in may if the whole season gets cancelled. Played in Sweden as well. However, that's about the only positive thing about it. Rangers would've had a good chance this season.

They would, but they are a young group. They'll have just as good a chance next year.

[CheapJon]

December 15th? I know the players and owners plan to meet without Fehr or Bettman. Surely it'll be before then though.

Yeah, they are meeting today. That's not what Alan was talking about though. As of right now, all games are cancelled until december 14. The next time they might go ahead and cancel the whole season.


It could be a pretty fine world championships in may if the whole season gets cancelled. Played in Sweden as well. However, that's about the only positive thing about it. Rangers would've had a good chance this season.

They would, but they are a young group. They'll have just as good a chance next year.

Yeah but this year could be a big building year. it's another year lost in the primes of the King, Richie, Gabby and Nash.

[CheapJon]

In actual hockey playing news, the new Oilers defenceman Justin Schultz is apparently some form of god.

Top 3 in AHL scoring

1 Justin Schultz Oklahoma City Barons 20GP 11G 20A 31Pts
2 Jordan Eberle Oklahoma City Barons 20GP 12G 15A 27Pts
3 Tyler Johnson Syracuse Crunch 20GP 15G 8A 23Pts

Yeah Edmonton's future should be brighter than it's been in a while. I just kinda wish they didn't win the lottery this year as well, or that they'd pick Ryan Murray instead. Might get to top heavy with Yakupov. + I would've really liked to see Yakupov with Anisimov in CBJ. 

Think of having an offensive core of Hall, RNH and Eberle then the D led by Schultz, Klefbom and Murray. Guess you're just gonna try to work it out with "Yak" 

[tim_m]

December 15th? I know the players and owners plan to meet without Fehr or Bettman. Surely it'll be before then though.

Yeah, they are meeting today. That's not what Alan was talking about though. As of right now, all games are cancelled until december 14. The next time they might go ahead and cancel the whole season.


It could be a pretty fine world championships in may if the whole season gets cancelled. Played in Sweden as well. However, that's about the only positive thing about it. Rangers would've had a good chance this season.

They would, but they are a young group. They'll have just as good a chance next year.

Yeah but this year could be a big building year. it's another year lost in the primes of the King, Richie, Gabby and Nash.

Yeah, hopefully something positive comes out of today's meeting and the league doesn't commit suicide for the second time in less than a decade.

[Alan]

In actual hockey playing news, the new Oilers defenceman Justin Schultz is apparently some form of god.

Top 3 in AHL scoring

1 Justin Schultz Oklahoma City Barons 20GP 11G 20A 31Pts
2 Jordan Eberle Oklahoma City Barons 20GP 12G 15A 27Pts
3 Tyler Johnson Syracuse Crunch 20GP 15G 8A 23Pts

Yeah Edmonton's future should be brighter than it's been in a while. I just kinda wish they didn't win the lottery this year as well, or that they'd pick Ryan Murray instead. Might get to top heavy with Yakupov. + I would've really liked to see Yakupov with Anisimov in CBJ. 

Think of having an offensive core of Hall, RNH and Eberle then the D led by Schultz, Klefbom and Murray. Guess you're just gonna try to work it out with "Yak" 

Next season as in 2013/14 I expect to see something like this

Hall - RNH - Eberle
Hemsky - Gagner - Yakupov
Hartikainen - Horcoff - Pajaarvi
Eager - Lander -Jones

Smid - Petry
Whitney - J. Schultz
N. Schultz - Tuebert/Peckham

Dubnyk
?

I'd expect Smid & Petry to take the tough minutes again, giving Whitney & J. Schultz easier defensive duties, while still getting a lot of time to move the puck up to the top 6 guys.

[tim_m]

Looks like after the players owners meeting there could be hope.