NFL 2011 Season

[Axl4Prez2004]

Hey Faldor, speakin' of Gronk, any thoughts on his partying so soon after a Super Bowl loss?
Personally, I liked what Rodney Harrison had to say.  If he, or a bunch of other former Pats were there as teammates, he might have gotten his bell rung by them.  I was glad to hear that.
Dancin' around like a moron after a crushing loss?

Let's face it, if that was Randy Moss acting like that after their last SB loss, he'd have been treated much more harshly.
Personally, I think he was treated with kid gloves because of how goddamned good he is at his position.

btw, it drives me nuts when they call a 23 year old man a "kid."  (I'll stop pulling my pants up above my rib cage now...and I won't tell those kids to get off my lawn. )

I'd rather not see stuff like that, but overall I'm fine with it.  That's how a lot of athletes are these days.  Some players take losses harder than others.  Some can brush it off more easily.  I think Rob's problem is he's young and a bit naive.  He said after the loss that they'd be back to play in more Super Bowls down the line.  On the other hand Tom Brady always emphasizes just how hard it is to make it to the Super Bowl.  It's not something you can take for granted and expect to achieve with relative ease year in and year out.  But that's a veteran mindset at work.  Gronk has been in the league for two years and his teams have gone 27-5 in the regular season and reached the Super Bowl this year.  So he's accustomed to winning.  I'm sure a few more crushing losses would change his outlook a bit.

Plus, Gronkowski is a different breed.  He's a fun loving guy, who doesn't seem to take anything too serious.  And I mean that in a good way.  I don't mean, he doesn't take football serious or he doesn't care about the results.  He just is able to let things roll off of him a little easier than others.

Gronk best be praying his ankle surgery goes well and his speed/agility aren't affected by this too much.  I still think he's got a longer leash due to his dominance on the field this season.

[AxlsMainMan]

Randy Moss wants back into the NFL, announcing online Monday -- his 35th birthday -- that his one-season retirement was really a sabbatical.

The timing puts him back on the radar just as teams have started formulating their draft and free-agency boards. Nice touch, injecting himself back into the consciousness of the NFL right as teams are figuring out whether they need rookie or veteran help at wideout.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d826ec5ba/article/moss-agent-claims-interest-but-final-options-could-be-limited?module=HP11_cp

[Axl4Prez2004]

I said it before, I'll say it again...if the Pats had Randy out there, they'd have won the Super Bowl.

Why?

Welker and Branch are excellent at what they do...but they are small. 
With a healthy Gronk, the Pats would have been fine...but Gronk was not well...and Hernandez is no Gronk or Moss.
Without that big target down the field, they were at a disadvantage.
Remember that bomb down the field to Gronk?  If that's Randy, Brady unloads the ball earlier and that would have been 6 on the board.
How 'bout that Welker drop?  Randy wouldn't have dropped a pass like that and ya'll know it.

Randy Freakin Moss WILL be back...and the team smart enough to grab him will benefit IMMENSELY.
btw, he'll only go to a team with a quality qb.
New Orleans would be a great fit.  Colston's getting too pricey and Randy's rested legs are an improvement over Colston's aching knees.

[faldor]

I said it before, I'll say it again...if the Pats had Randy out there, they'd have won the Super Bowl.

Why?

Welker and Branch are excellent at what they do...but they are small. 
With a healthy Gronk, the Pats would have been fine...but Gronk was not well...and Hernandez is no Gronk or Moss.
Without that big target down the field, they were at a disadvantage.
Remember that bomb down the field to Gronk?  If that's Randy, Brady unloads the ball earlier and that would have been 6 on the board.
How 'bout that Welker drop?  Randy wouldn't have dropped a pass like that and ya'll know it.

Randy Freakin Moss WILL be back...and the team smart enough to grab him will benefit IMMENSELY.
btw, he'll only go to a team with a quality qb.
New Orleans would be a great fit.  Colston's getting too pricey and Randy's rested legs are an improvement over Colston's aching knees.

Ah, we revisit the argument from a few years back.  Let's not forget that the Patriots lost against the Giants WITH Randy Moss as well.  While I think a deep threat could certainly be used by the Pats, Randy Moss would ONLY help if he was motivated.  He certainly was not motivated the last time we saw him.  Now that doesn't mean he can't motivate himself once again.  We'll see if a team is willing to take a flier on him.  Teams weren't exactly lining up to take a chance on him after the Vikings sent him packing.  I believe only ONE team put a claim in on him, and he went on to catch 6 balls for the Titans. 

I think Randy could still be an asset to a team.  Again, IF he is motivated.  The problem for him, aside from teams being leery of his potential lack of effort, is this years FA WR crop is stacked.  It's not like he stands out amongst the crowd.  I'm quite certain all the big names will go before him.  Once they're all gone, maybe a team who was left out on the sweepstakes will take a chance on Randy.

[Axl4Prez2004]

I know it was only one play in the game...but Randy Moss would not have dropped the ball Welker dropped.

Yes, the guy has had a history of quitting on teams.
Those freakish legs have had a year to rest....he's never really had to deal with major injury...there's no way he's getting "top 5 in the league wr" money, so he won't be too expensive...if a team has a strong qb, you GET Randy Fucking Moss on your team. 
Bring this demon to the Saints!  THAT my friends would be scary as hell!

btw, the Pats BARELY lost that last Super Bowl with Brady unable to take a breath in before getting his ass sacked off!  This year, he had time.  Moss could have exploited the G-Men.
I really think Belichik's pride got in the way of bringing Randy back for the stretch run.

If I'm Randy, I'm talkin' to the Saints and Lions.  He'd be fucking awesome on either of those pass-heavy squads.
Other teams with weak qb's best stay away.

[faldor]

I know it was only one play in the game...but Randy Moss would not have dropped the ball Welker dropped.

It's tough to say.  Doubtful Randy would've run the same route like Welker did.  Different styles.  Wes is a far superior route runner than Randy.  If you're arbitrarily putting Randy in position to make that catch, then yes, I agree with you.  But it's not a given he gets to that point.

I don't doubt Randy can be of some service to a team.  I'm just not convinced teams are as enamored with the idea as you are.

While we're on the subject though, I wouldn't completely rule out the Patriots.  Randy had his blowup with Bill O'Brien, who will now be at Penn St.  He thrived under Josh McDaniels, who will be back with the Pats as OC.  The players loved Randy, Belichick loved Randy.  IF they aren't able to strike a deal with a Reggie Wayne, Brandon Lloyd, or someone of the like, I wouldn't be shocked if they took another chance on Randy.  They thought about it last season, as did many teams I'm sure, but didn't act on it.

[Axl4Prez2004]

I know it was only one play in the game...but Randy Moss would not have dropped the ball Welker dropped.

It's tough to say.  Doubtful Randy would've run the same route like Welker did.  Different styles.  Wes is a far superior route runner than Randy.  If you're arbitrarily putting Randy in position to make that catch, then yes, I agree with you.  But it's not a given he gets to that point.

I don't doubt Randy can be of some service to a team.  I'm just not convinced teams are as enamored with the idea as you are.

While we're on the subject though, I wouldn't completely rule out the Patriots.  Randy had his blowup with Bill O'Brien, who will now be at Penn St.  He thrived under Josh McDaniels, who will be back with the Pats as OC.  The players loved Randy, Belichick loved Randy.  IF they aren't able to strike a deal with a Reggie Wayne, Brandon Lloyd, or someone of the like, I wouldn't be shocked if they took another chance on Randy.  They thought about it last season, as did many teams I'm sure, but didn't act on it.

Faldor, I absolutely agree that Randy would be a net positive for the Pats.  Deep threat and red zone target...hopefully at a discount due to the past behavior and taking a year off.
I don't think Lloyd brings what Moss brings to the table.  Wayne's a quality player, but lacks the speed, and he's quite expensive if I'm not mistaken.
The only MUST in the Randy equation is he MUST have a quality qb with a big arm.  Pats-Saints-Lions come to mind.

[faldor]

I know it was only one play in the game...but Randy Moss would not have dropped the ball Welker dropped.

It's tough to say.  Doubtful Randy would've run the same route like Welker did.  Different styles.  Wes is a far superior route runner than Randy.  If you're arbitrarily putting Randy in position to make that catch, then yes, I agree with you.  But it's not a given he gets to that point.

I don't doubt Randy can be of some service to a team.  I'm just not convinced teams are as enamored with the idea as you are.

While we're on the subject though, I wouldn't completely rule out the Patriots.  Randy had his blowup with Bill O'Brien, who will now be at Penn St.  He thrived under Josh McDaniels, who will be back with the Pats as OC.  The players loved Randy, Belichick loved Randy.  IF they aren't able to strike a deal with a Reggie Wayne, Brandon Lloyd, or someone of the like, I wouldn't be shocked if they took another chance on Randy.  They thought about it last season, as did many teams I'm sure, but didn't act on it.

Faldor, I absolutely agree that Randy would be a net positive for the Pats.  Deep threat and red zone target...hopefully at a discount due to the past behavior and taking a year off.
I don't think Lloyd brings what Moss brings to the table.  Wayne's a quality player, but lacks the speed, and he's quite expensive if I'm not mistaken.
The only MUST in the Randy equation is he MUST have a quality qb with a big arm.  Pats-Saints-Lions come to mind.

That is another thing on Randy's side as far as the Patriots are concerned.  He would be less costly, I'd imagine, then the top FA WR's.  He knows the system, he's worked with Brady/McDaniels.  It should be a seamless transition.  I think other WR's bring more to the table though.  BUT, familiarity can be a good thing.  Look at what happened with the Ochocinco experiment.  I don't know what the hell happened with Chad, but he vastly underachieved coming into a new system.  So if they give out boatloads of money to another WR, they run the same risk. 

I don't think Wayne would be THAT expensive.  He's getting older himself, so I don't think he'd command top dollar.  Not saying he'd be cheap, but I could actually see a Brandon Lloyd getting more than him since he's 4 years younger.  The reason I mention Lloyd too, is because he has high respect for McDaniels and has previously said that he would go to whatever team Josh ended up with.  Again though, I doubt he's going to pay for peanuts just to have McDaniels as his OC, and the Patriots are notorious for not paying top dollar for FA WR's not named Randy Moss.  This could be the year they buck that trend.  I hope they do spend some money notably on WR's, DB's.  They've got another 3-4 years with Brady to be a threat.  They need to take advantage of that.

[D]

Moss used to be my fave player......

Can't stand or respect a quitter.

[Axl4Prez2004]

Moss used to be my fave player......

Can't stand or respect a quitter.

Meh, people say the same shit about Axl.  Axl quit on some gigs in his day, but I still respect the guy too much to brand him a quitter for life. 
Had Randy's quitting cost his teams games, yeah, that would be a problem.  I don't think it did.

btw, Lloyd's a home-run hitter no doubt, but I don't know how effective he'd be in the red zone.  Do the Pats need yet another almost 6' sub-190 pound receiver?

[Sober_times]

btw, Lloyd's a home-run hitter no doubt, but I don't know how effective he'd be in the red zone.  Do the Pats need yet another almost 6' sub-190 pound receiver?

Pats dont need another redzone target. They got at least 3 good ones with welker, gronk and hernandez. They need a guy to stretch the field. Lloyd could do that for them. He has had issues in the past though with 49ers, redskins and bears. Looks like he got things under control with Mcdaniels and he has said he would like to go where ever mcdaniels is. I think it could be a good fit.

[Axl4Prez2004]

btw, Lloyd's a home-run hitter no doubt, but I don't know how effective he'd be in the red zone.  Do the Pats need yet another almost 6' sub-190 pound receiver?

Pats dont need another redzone target. They got at least 3 good ones with welker, gronk and hernandez. They need a guy to stretch the field. Lloyd could do that for them. He has had issues in the past though with 49ers, redskins and bears. Looks like he got things under control with Mcdaniels and he has said he would like to go where ever mcdaniels is. I think it could be a good fit.

U don't think Randy can stretch the field?
Welker-Branch-Edelman...even Llloyd...none of them catches a lob fade to the corner of the end zone.  They are midgets (no offense to the short folks out there)
Randy's 6' 4" with very long arms and great hands.  (see 2010's 1st game against the Jets when he catches a ball from 50 yards deep 1-handed over Revis)
The man was born to stretch the field.
I like Gronk and Hernandez as red zone targets, but I think a wr that can do it would help that offense. 

[Sober_times]

btw, Lloyd's a home-run hitter no doubt, but I don't know how effective he'd be in the red zone.  Do the Pats need yet another almost 6' sub-190 pound receiver?

Pats dont need another redzone target. They got at least 3 good ones with welker, gronk and hernandez. They need a guy to stretch the field. Lloyd could do that for them. He has had issues in the past though with 49ers, redskins and bears. Looks like he got things under control with Mcdaniels and he has said he would like to go where ever mcdaniels is. I think it could be a good fit.

U don't think Randy can stretch the field?
Welker-Branch-Edelman...even Llloyd...none of them catches a lob fade to the corner of the end zone.  They are midgets (no offense to the short folks out there)
Randy's 6' 4" with very long arms and great hands.  (see 2010's 1st game against the Jets when he catches a ball from 50 yards deep 1-handed over Revis)
The man was born to stretch the field.
I like Gronk and Hernandez as red zone targets, but I think a wr that can do it would help that offense. 

I never said that randy cant stretch the field. I was simply stating my opinion on their red zone targets. And I still believe they have enough. A fade is not a must have offensive play. They have enough weapons with gronkandez, welker, branch, woodhead coming out of the back field to make plays in the red zone.

I think that doesn't need to factor in to the equation. I dont think they need to say well we cant go with lloyd because he may not be a great redzone target. Their redzone offense is efficient and would continue to be with the guys they have. They need a guy with some speed that can play outside to stretch the field, a deep threat. Lloyd can do that, i think. But there are other ways to get that guy than just lloyd. People can sit back and expect New England to throw 5-15 yards every play because they dont have the outside threat to stretch the defense to open up all the underneath stuff. The way this offense is now, its still very good, but with that deep threat this offense could easily be the best in the leauge again.

I don't believe Randy Moss is going back to New England though. I think that bridge has been burnt. Anything can happen but i believe the patriots will look elsewhere.

And short guys can make big 40+ yard td plays. Branch was able to at one point in his career. But better examples are Steve Smith and Desean Jackson.

[AxlsMainMan]

Peyton Manning Should Take a Lesson from Brett Favre

Peyton Manning and the Indianapolis Colts (specifically owner Jim Irsay) are headed for a very messy split. With Manning's uncertain recovery from his third neck surgery in less than two years, and the Colts overhauling their management and coaching staff, times are very tense in Indianapolis.

So tense that this past week saw a bit of verbal sparring in the press from both parties that is typically anathema to this particular Midwestern team. Peyton Manning came out first with an interview in which he expressed frustration that so much was changing at Colts Headquarters, and that there was an uneasy environment among the remaining Colts staffers. Jim Irsay responded by calling Peyton "a politician," and that he didn't like how Peyton had expressed frustration with the Colts in public.

Things have settled down in the past few days with Peyton and Irsay both making public statements to try and calm the situation. Of course, nothing has been settled in regards to Peyton's future. With a $28 million roster bonus due to him in March, a decision will have to be made soon. Even if Peyton manages to come back 100%, it's likely that the Colts will release him. Age, injury history, and a desire for the Colts to start anew at quarterback with the top pick in the 2012 NFL draft are all working against Peyton staying in Indianapolis.

If Peyton does decide to join another team in the future, he'd do well to remember the saga of Brett Favre's exit from Green Bay and the years that followed. It was once thought sacrilegious to even suggest that Favre would end his career in anything but a Packers uniform, but his annual retirement drama had a way of lessening the bonds Green Bay had with him. When Favre was traded to the New York Jets, and then later signed with the Minnesota Vikings the following year, his public persona and the fans' love for him began to turn sour.

Favre's biggest problem (and what Peyton has to guard against) was that he was so upset with Packers' management that he took it out on the entire franchise. He seemed to make it his mission to defeat the Packers whenever the opportunity presented itself. Ultimately, the only thing that Favre's revenge tactics against the Packers did was further anger the fans and widen the split between him and the franchise in whose uniform he will someday wear when he enters the Hall of Fame.

I can't see Manning holding on past his time as a effective quarterback or making it his personal mission to destroy the Colts on the football field, but NFL starting quarterbacks have a great deal of pride and stubbornness. Peyton has a chance to do what Favre never did: go out with grace. Whether he retires due to injury or ends up being released so he can join another team, Peyton is in the driver's seat in deciding what his lasting legacy as an NFL (and Colts) legend will be.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ycn-10896839

[tim_m]

FL: Saints defense had 'bounty' fund
ESPN.com news services

NEW YORK -- New Orleans Saints players and at least one assistant coach maintained a bounty pool of up to $50,000 the last three seasons to reward game-ending injuries inflicted on opposing players, including Brett Favre and Kurt Warner, the NFL said Friday. "Knockouts" were worth $1,500 and "cart-offs" $1,000, with payments doubled or tripled for the playoffs.

The NFL said the pool amounts reached their height of $50,000 or more in 2009, the year the Saints won the Super Bowl.

The Saints "bounty" story is worse than the Patriots' "Spygate" incident, and New Orleans and Gregg Williams should be severely penalized, writes John Clayton. Story

If the Saints were out to harm others and team officials did nothing, look for Roger Goodell to throw the book at the Saints, writes Pat Yasinskas. Blog

Rams defensive coordinator Gregg Williams is known for his aggressive defenses. Mike Sando looks at what allegations that Williams was privy to a "bounty" system could mean for his new team. Blog

The league said between 22 and 27 defensive players were involved in the program and that it was administered by defensive coordinator Gregg Williams, with the knowledge of coach Sean Payton.

The investigation by the league's security department determined that an improper "pay for performance" program included "bounty" payments to players for inflicting injuries on opposing players that would result in them being removed from a game.

In some cases, the amounts pledged were both significant and directed against a specific opposing player, according to the league's investigation. Four former Redskins players, including defensive end Phillip Daniels, told The Washington Post that Williams had a similar system while serving as the Redskins' defensive coordinator.

Saints general manager Mickey Loomis failed to stop the bounty program when directed to do so by team owner Tom Benson, while Payton was aware of the allegations but did not pursue them or take steps to stop the "bounty" program, according to the investigation's findings.

"I want to express my sincere regret and apology to the NFL, Mr. Benson, and the New Orleans Saints fans for my participation in the 'pay for performance' program while I was with the Saints," Williams said in a statement. "It was a terrible mistake, and we knew it was wrong while we were doing it. Instead of getting caught up in it, I should have stopped it. I take full responsibility for my role. I am truly sorry. I have learned a hard lesson and I guarantee that I will never participate in or allow this kind of activity to happen again."

The findings, corroborated by multiple independent sources, have been presented to commissioner Roger Goodell, who will determine the appropriate discipline.

"It is our responsibility to protect player safety and the integrity of our game, and this type of conduct will not be tolerated," Goodell said in a statement. "We have made significant progress in changing the culture with respect to player safety and we are not going to relent. We have more work to do and we will do it."

The NFLPA issued a statement Friday, stating it would review the findings.

"Health and safety is a paramount issue to the NFLPA," the statement read. "The NFLPA was informed of this investigation by the NFL earlier today and will review the information contained in the league's report."

Goodell has advised the Saints that he will hold proceedings to determine potential discipline against the team and the individuals involved, and confer with the players' union regarding the appropriate punishment. That discipline could include fines, suspensions and the forfeiture of draft choices.

"I have been made aware of the NFL's findings relative to the 'Bounty Rule' and how it relates to our club. I have offered and the NFL has received our full cooperation in their investigation," Benson said in a statement. "While the findings may be troubling, we look forward to putting this behind us and winning more championships in the future for our fans."

According to the investigation, the players regularly contributed cash into a pool and received improper cash payments of two kinds from the pool, based on their play in the previous week's game.

Williams administered the program with the knowledge of other defensive coaches and occasionally contributed funds, according to the league investigation.

Payments were made for plays such as interceptions and fumble recoveries. But the program also included "bounty" payments for "cart-offs," meaning that the opposing player was carried off the field, and "knockouts," meaning that the opposing player was not able to return.

"The payments here are particularly troubling because they involved not just payments for 'performance,' but also for injuring opposing players," Goodell said in a statement. "The bounty rule promotes two key elements of NFL football: player safety and competitive integrity."

A team source familiar with the investigation told SI.com that Saints linebacker Jonathan Vilma offered $10,000 to any defensive player that knocked Favre out of the 2009 NFC Championship Game.

[tim_m]

Memo from Roger Goodell to NFL Owners

In the following memo from NFL commissioner Roger Goodell to the league's owners, obtained by ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter, Goodell advises the owners that league investigators found the Saints ran a 'bounty' program, in violation of league rules.

As you know, league rules have long prohibited payment of non-contract bonuses -- often referred to as "bounties." These payments are prohibited whether offered generally, or in the context of a particular game or a player's performance against a particular team. Such payments are contrary to rules relating to player contracts and the Collective Bargaining Agreement, and present a serious threat to the integrity of the game.

A particularly damaging form of bounty payment involves targeting an opposing player and offering payments for acts directed against that player.

Our office will shortly issue a press release based on the attached confidential report setting forth the key findings of a lengthy investigation into allegations that players on the New Orleans Saints violated the bounty rule during the 2009-11 seasons, and did so with the knowledge and assistance of certain members of the coaching staff.

These allegations first arose during the playoffs following the 2009 season. Despite a prompt response, NFL Security could not substantiate the allegations, in part because players declined to provide any information. During the latter part of the 2011 season, we received additional information that led us to reopen the investigation.

Over the past three months, our staff has reviewed some 18,000 documents and conducted multiple interviews. The findings in the accompanying documents are corroborated by multiple independent sources.

The investigation established that Saints defensive players regularly contributed cash into a pool, from which players received cash payments for certain achievements, including interceptions, fumble recoveries, etc. But players also received cash payments for "knock-outs" and "cart-offs" -- plays on which an opposing player was forced to leave the game. These cash awards were in the $1,000 to $1,500 range. Funds were also occasionally contributed by at least one assistant coach.

This conduct obviously has no place in our game and I intend to take all steps necessary to make sure that it stops immediately. Each owner should promptly review this matter with his coaching staff to make sure that this or any related impermissible activity is not taking place at his club.

Throughout this process, we have received the full cooperation of Saints owner Tom Benson. There is no information suggesting that club ownership knew of or approved these actions.

I will hold further proceedings before imposing discipline and will, of course, advise all clubs of any disciplinary action. We will discuss this matter at the upcoming Annual Meeting.

Any club with questions may contact Jeff Pash or me.

Favre, who absorbed multiple hard hits in the game, told SI.com: "I'm not pissed. It's football. I don't think anything less of those guys."

Favre's agent, Bus Cook, said he was unaware of the investigation until Friday. He said the Saints should have been penalized for several hard, late hits during the 2009 NFC Championship Game and that he believed the contact was not coincidental.

"It was pretty obvious that the intent was to take Brett out of the game, and it happened the week before with Kurt Warner, too," Cook said. "I don't know anything about whether it was by design or whatever, but I think a lot of people shared that same viewpoint that there were some hits that didn't get called."

Cook, however, said Favre never suggested to him he was maliciously targeted.

"That's part of football, getting hit," Cook said. "Brett never complained to me one way or another."

The NFL has a longstanding rule prohibiting "non-contract bonuses," and they violate both the league constitution and bylaws and the collective bargaining agreement with the players' union. Clubs are advised every year of this rule in a memo from the commissioner.

"Our investigation began in early 2010 when allegations were first made that Saints players had targeted opposing players, including Kurt Warner of the Cardinals and Brett Favre of the Vikings," Goodell said in a statement. "Our security department interviewed numerous players and other individuals.

"At the time, those interviewed denied that any such program existed and the player that made the allegation retracted his earlier assertions. As a result, the allegations could not be proven," Goodell said.

"We recently received significant and credible new information and the investigation was re-opened during the latter part of the 2011 season."

Warner, who retired after the 2009 season, responded to a fan's comment on Twitter that even if the Saints had a bounty program a playoff hit on Warner was clean. Warner tweeted, "I would have to agree with you!!!"

"I don't want to say that there was an attempt to injure, but I definitely think there were games where I could tell you that it seemed that they went beyond what was normal in regard to when they were going to hit me or how they were going to hit me," Warner said on the NFL Network. "Again, not with the intention necessarily of hurting me, but knocking me out of my game to get me to think about things differently. If by chance they hit me and knocked me out of the game, maybe that's a benefit for them."

Chicago Bears wide receiver Earl Bennett was injured by a hit from Roman Harper, who was not flagged or fined, in a Week 2 loss to the Saints. Bennett missed five weeks with a chest injury.

"All I have to say is I hope we play them again," Bennett told ESPNChicago.com Friday. "The game of football is a contact sport, so if they're gunning for me, I'm going to be gunning for them."

Williams employed a similar system while with the Redskins from 2004-07, according to a report Friday in The Washington Post.

Three former players said Williams handed out thousands of dollars in accordance with a specific scoring system, including "kill shots" that resulted in opposing teams' top players being knocked out of the game.

Daniels, however, went on the record in the Post report and defended Williams.

"I think it is wrong the way they're trying to paint (Williams)," Daniels told the Post. "He never told us to go out there and break a guy's neck or break a guy's leg. It was all in the context of a good, hard football."

Daniels told the Post it was his understanding that Williams started the "bounty" program with money collected from fines for players being late for practices and meetings.

"Rather than pocket that money or whatever, he would re-distribute it to players who had good games or good practices," Daniels told the Post.

Daniels told the Post the most money he ever received was $1,500 for a four-sack game against the Cowboys in 2005.

According to the NFL investigation of the Saints, Benson was not initially aware of the bounty program and directed Loomis to make sure it was discontinued immediately. The evidence showed Loomis did not do so, investigators found.

"Similarly, when the initial allegations were discussed with Mr. Loomis in 2010, he denied any knowledge of a bounty program and pledged that he would ensure that no such program was in place. There is no evidence that Mr. Loomis took any effective action to stop these practices," according to the league's findings.

Payton "was not a direct participant in the funding or administration of the program," according to the investigation.

However, Payton "was aware of the allegations, did not make any detailed inquiry or otherwise seek to learn the facts, and failed to stop the bounty program. He never instructed his assistant coaches or players that a bounty program was improper and could not continue," the investigation found.

The investigation included the review of approximately 18,000 documents totaling more than 50,000 pages, interviews of a wide range of individuals and the use of outside forensic experts to verify the authenticity of key documents.

A memo sent by the NFL to all 32 teams detailing the investigation was obtained by CBS Sports, which reported that Michael Ornstein, a former marketing agent with close ties to Payton and former Saint Reggie Bush, contributed to the bounty fund.

Ornstein, who served time in prison for fraud, pledged $10,000 to the quarterback bounty in 2009, and contributed money at least twice in 2011, according to CBS Sports.

According to CBS Sports, the memo also details an email sent from Ornstein to Payton, which outlined the bounty system.

The NFL's most infamous bounty case occurred in 1989 when Eagles coach Buddy Ryan was accused of putting a bounty on Cowboys players.

On Thanksgiving Day, Cowboys coach Jimmy Johnson accused Ryan of putting a bounty on Dallas quarterback Troy Aikman and placekicker Luis Zendejas before a 27-0 Philadelphia victory. Ryan and his players denied the charges and NFL commissioner Paul Tagliabue found no evidence of wrongdoing.

Information from ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter, ESPNChicago.com and The Associated Press was used in this report.

This is sickening. This defensive coordinator apparently did the same thing while in Washington too. He should be banned for life.

[GeorgeSteele]

Source: Colts to release Peyton Manning

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7653897/sources-indianapolis-colts-part-peyton-manning-wednesday

[cotis]

Peyton's free...plus what team doesn't have a bounty system?

[SpecialAgentCooper]

I think Peyton will go to Miami or Seattle...looks like the Saints could sign Randy Moss! So where do you guys think Mario Williams will end up?


Coop

[AxlsMainMan]

I think Peyton will go to Miami or Seattle...looks like the Saints could sign Randy Moss! So where do you guys think Mario Williams will end up?


Coop

Surely Peyton wants to close out his career on a team that isn't in perpetual rebuild mode; I'd say Jets or Ravens.