NFL 2011 Season

[GeorgeSteele]

Word is that Vegas got killed in this game.  When they opened with the Pats as 3.5 pt favorites (which made no sense), people were betting the Giants heavily.  They lowered the spread to 3, but were still getting overwhelmed with Giants bets.  Apparently, they were scared of going to 2.5 because if that then turned the tide to more bets on the Pats, they would be in gambling hell if the Pats were to win by 3.  So they stuck to their guns at 3 and went down in flames.

I was most surprised by the play of the Pats defense, though they had nothing left on that last drive.  They ended up limiting the Giants to 21 pts, which should have been enough to win.  Also, they just got plain unlucky with not recovering those forced fumbles.

I thought that holding penalty on the Giants that killed their second-to-last drive was BS, but I liked the no-call on the pass interference.  This is the Super Bowl, you have to give the players more leeway and I don't want games decided by borderline penalties. 

The Welker drop, that would have been a great catch on a poorly thrown ball that was both high and behind him.  Michael Irvin made a point after the game in saying how you lose all sense of equilibrium when you have to spin in the opposite direction of where you're running and then on top of that have to jump.  Put it this way, it's much easier for Brady to hit him stride then it is for Welker to make that catch.  If Brady's throw was on target, that could have been a TD. 

That's not to nitpick Brady, he played well overall.  He was tremendous on that 4th and 16 play and ended up throwing as perfect a ball as possible for something to happen on that Hail Mary.  The INT I actually though was a good decision on his part.  Incredibly, Gronkowski on one foot managed to somehow get open deep.  Brady would have had him for a TD but got hit on the throw and so couldn't get enough on it.  But Brady was right to take a shot because an INT that deep was the equivalent of a punt that pinned the Giants deep in their territory.  So it wasn't exactly a costly turnover and it was nice to see Brady take a shot deep.  He rarely did that, which surprised me because the Giants ended up having not much of a pass rush for most of the game, so their was plenty of time for Brady to let his downfield routes develop. 

Manning, what can you say, he was outstanding.  I don't know if it's confidence or ignorance, but big game after big game, he throws caution to the wind in the 4th Q and seems to always end come up with huge plays.  That throw to Manningham had to be perfect and it was.  He definitely earned that MVP. 

[faldor]

Tough loss, as they all are.  Very competitive game though, which I expected.  Both teams laid it all out there.  Can't fault the Pats defense, they did enough to win the game.  And the offense clicked for the middle portion of the game, when Brady completed 15 straight passes or whatever it was.  Just could not keep that going though into the 4th.  And I agree that the win in 07 was a lot more luck (Tyree catch).  This one was legit.  That pass and catch by Eli/Manningham will go down as one of the greats.  This loss also stings a lot less than 07, but it stings nonetheless. 

[pilferk]

I thought that holding penalty on the Giants that killed their second-to-last drive was BS, but I liked the no-call on the pass interference.  This is the Super Bowl, you have to give the players more leeway and I don't want games decided by borderline penalties. 

My problem with it is this:

If you call the 2 ticky tack holdings on the Giants, you HAVE to call the far more obvious Defensive Pass Interference on that play.  You either let them play, or you make them pay.  You can't treat each side differently (and, to my eyes, they were...not just with that, but with a BADLY missed holding call on the Pats).  IMHO, that wasn't borderline.  And most of the analysts that I've seen/heard talk about it say the same thing.  Even in "real time", it looked like DPI.

Ultimately, it doesn't effect the outcome of the game....so (if you'll excuse the pun) no harm/no foul.  But it's frustrating to watch your team get called for a 10 yard penalty because a finger gets hooked behind an arm for half a second in incidental contact...but the Pats get away with hooking a shoulder and turning a receiver out of the play.

The Welker drop, that would have been a great catch on a poorly thrown ball that was both high and behind him.  Michael Irvin made a point after the game in saying how you lose all sense of equilibrium when you have to spin in the opposite direction of where you're running and then on top of that have to jump.  Put it this way, it's much easier for Brady to hit him stride then it is for Welker to make that catch.  If Brady's throw was on target, that could have been a TD. 

I get that Brady was throwing Welker open...and the location of the ball I completely "get".  But it was badly thrown, which put Welker out of position, and made him have to stop, jump, and contort wildly all at the same time.  I've seen him make that catch (or similar catches)....I'm just glad he dropped that one.

That's not to nitpick Brady, he played well overall.  He was tremendous on that 4th and 16 play and ended up throwing as perfect a ball as possible for something to happen on that Hail Mary. 

He played well, overall.  Couple of HIS mistakes really cost them, though (the safety and the INT).  Granted, the INT didn't lead to Giants points...but I really think it led them to NOT putting up points.

The INT I actually though was a good decision on his part.  Incredibly, Gronkowski on one foot managed to somehow get open deep.  Brady would have had him for a TD but got hit on the throw and so couldn't get enough on it.  But Brady was right to take a shot because an INT that deep was the equivalent of a punt that pinned the Giants deep in their territory.  So it wasn't exactly a costly turnover and it was nice to see Brady take a shot deep.  He rarely did that, which surprised me because the Giants ended up having not much of a pass rush for most of the game, so their was plenty of time for Brady to let his downfield routes develop. 

I disagree...I think it was a HORRIBLE decision...because it was a first down throw.  If he made that play on 3rd and 10...sure.  You can live with it.  On first and 10?  No way.  You either take the hit or throw it out of bounds on the sides...and take another shot on 2nd down.  I think that decision cost them.

Manning, what can you say, he was outstanding.  I don't know if it's confidence or ignorance, but big game after big game, he throws caution to the wind in the 4th Q and seems to always end come up with huge plays.  That throw to Manningham had to be perfect and it was.  He definitely earned that MVP. 

I agree.  

His stats were not SIGNIFICANTLY better than Brady's were, in the game.....1 less TD, 1 less INT, about 20 more yards.....and a better completion %.  But that, in itself, says something.

Eli continues to come up big, in big spots.

[pilferk]

Tough loss, as they all are.  Very competitive game though, which I expected.  Both teams laid it all out there.  Can't fault the Pats defense, they did enough to win the game.  And the offense clicked for the middle portion of the game, when Brady completed 15 straight passes or whatever it was.  Just could not keep that going though into the 4th.  And I agree that the win in 07 was a lot more luck (Tyree catch).  This one was legit.  That pass and catch by Eli/Manningham will go down as one of the greats.  This loss also stings a lot less than 07, but it stings nonetheless. 

The '07 play ranks higher, IMHO, based on both the degree of difficulty (luck?) and the Manning scramble prior to the throw.

This one is up there...but Eli had hours to throw.  The catch was amazing.

And what hurt as much as the catch was that Eli hurried the G-men to the line, and forced Belicheck to challenge before he'd gotten a real look at the play.  Forcing the Pats to burn that time out may have actually had as much to do with the way the game ended as anything else they did.

[pilferk]

So, question:

Was that final 12 men penalty on the Giants planned, or a legit mistake.

If it was planned...it was freaking brilliant....because the 5 yards was meaningless and the 6 seconds (or so) they took off the clock was priceless.

If it was a mistake...it was a very fortuitous one.

I smell a rule change, though....not sure how they'll address it, but I think they will.  Because, mistake or not, it set a LOT of coaches wheels turning about late/close defensive situations.

[GeorgeSteele]

^ I was shocked on that, I couldn't believe the rules allow the defense to benefit from a penalty by allowing time to run off the clock in that situation. 

On your other points, I understand where you're coming from, but on that INT, if you've got a guy open going into the end zone, I think you throw him the ball, no matter what down.  Even with the underthrow, Gronkowski still almost made the play on it. 

[GeorgeSteele]

Sorry, I can't help myself, here's some post-game analysis from Giselle Bundchen: 

"My Husband Can Not Fucking Throw The Ball And Catch The Ball At The Same Time": Gisele Is Pissed At The Patriots? Dropped Passes

http://deadspin.com/5882588/my-husband-can-not-fucking-throw-the-ball-and-catch-the-ball-at-the-same-time-gisele-is-pissed-at-the-patriots-dropped-passes

[pilferk]

^ I was shocked on that, I couldn't believe the rules allow the defense to benefit from a penalty by allowing time to run off the clock in that situation. 

On your other points, I understand where you're coming from, but on that INT, if you've got a guy open going into the end zone, I think you throw him the ball, no matter what down.  Even with the underthrow, Gronkowski still almost made the play on it. 

I don't think he was open.....and, as Brady, I think you have to consider who's number you're throwing it to.  You know (and it was obvious by their game plan) he's compromised.  Yes, Gronks only got an LB on him...and normally you like that matchup...but not yesterday.  Any coverage, on 1st and 10, and you don't take the risk.   You dump the ball and try again next down.

I don't think it's a HORRIBLE play, but it's a mistake...and it's a costly one.

[Sober_times]

I get that Brady was throwing Welker open...and the location of the ball I completely "get".  But it was badly thrown, which put Welker out of position, and made him have to stop, jump, and contort wildly all at the same time.  I've seen him make that catch (or similar catches)....I'm just glad he dropped that one.

A wide reciever is not always going to get a perfectly thrown ball. Its just not going to happen. In the superbowl and in that situation you have to make that catch. Could Brady have thrown it a little better? Absolutely. But the ball hit his hands and your not always going to get great ball placement. No excuses are good enough.
 
I love Welker and that play alone did not cost them the game but it was a huge play that didn't go patriots way.

[pilferk]

A wide reciever is not always going to get a perfectly thrown ball. Its just not going to happen. In the superbowl and in that situation you have to make that catch. Could Brady have thrown it a little better? Absolutely. But the ball hit his hands and your not always going to get great ball placement. No excuses are good enough.
 
I love Welker and that play alone did not cost them the game but it was a huge play that didn't go patriots way.

You mean like the ball Manningham got from Eli? 

Seriously, though...I'm not giving Welker a pass on this.  The ball was certainly catchable (and, as I said, I've seen him catch similar balls before).

But it wasn't an "easy" catch...which is the way some folks have portrayed it this morning in the media.  It was poorly thrown, and Welker had to make some adjustments to try to get to it.

Like you said...when it hits him in both hands, you'd think he comes down with it.  I'm REALLY glad he didn't.

[GeorgeSteele]

^ I was shocked on that, I couldn't believe the rules allow the defense to benefit from a penalty by allowing time to run off the clock in that situation. 

On your other points, I understand where you're coming from, but on that INT, if you've got a guy open going into the end zone, I think you throw him the ball, no matter what down.  Even with the underthrow, Gronkowski still almost made the play on it. 

I don't think he was open.....and, as Brady, I think you have to consider who's number you're throwing it to.  You know (and it was obvious by their game plan) he's compromised.  Yes, Gronks only got an LB on him...and normally you like that matchup...but not yesterday.  Any coverage, on 1st and 10, and you don't take the risk.   You dump the ball and try again next down.

I don't think it's a HORRIBLE play, but it's a mistake...and it's a costly one.

This was a decent video of the play.  Starting at the :59 second mark, there's video that tracks the route that shows Gronkowski had about 2 steps on Blackburn. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5snDQnd_Mw

Although he was open, I do understand Brady has to throw the ball about 60 yards or so to hit him in stride and that's apparently not easy to do when you're about to be crushed by a 300 lb  lineman.  Who knew?

[pilferk]

This was a decent video of the play.  Starting at the :59 second mark, there's video that tracks the route that shows Gronkowski had about 2 steps on Blackburn. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5snDQnd_Mw

Although he was open, I do understand Brady has to throw the ball about 60 yards or so to hit him in stride and that's apparently not easy to do when you're about to be crushed by a 300 lb  lineman.  Who knew?

To me, it looks like he has 2 steps on Blackburn....at about the time Brady is wiggling out from under the "almost sack" (when it looks like Blackburn thinks the play is dead).  Then, by the time Brady scrambles (who knew??), sets, and releases....Blackburn is 1 step behind AND between Brady and Gronk.  If that's open, it's barely open....and you've got a compromised player who can't run full speed, and you're asking him, basically, to go jump ball on it.  Combined with the fact Brady has that 300lb guy bearing down on him, and should know that getting his all into the throw is going to be tough.

Risky. 

Again, for my money, a bad decision on 1st and 10, close to mid field.

Not a bad decision if it's 3rd and 10, in the same position.

[tim_m]

So, question:

Was that final 12 men penalty on the Giants planned, or a legit mistake.

If it was planned...it was freaking brilliant....because the 5 yards was meaningless and the 6 seconds (or so) they took off the clock was priceless.

If it was a mistake...it was a very fortuitous one.

I smell a rule change, though....not sure how they'll address it, but I think they will.  Because, mistake or not, it set a LOT of coaches wheels turning about late/close defensive situations.

I wondered this myself. I think there's a high possibility they did do it on purpose cause losing those 6 seconds pretty much gave them no chance to win.

[Bodhi]

So, question:

Was that final 12 men penalty on the Giants planned, or a legit mistake.

If it was planned...it was freaking brilliant....because the 5 yards was meaningless and the 6 seconds (or so) they took off the clock was priceless.

If it was a mistake...it was a very fortuitous one.

I smell a rule change, though....not sure how they'll address it, but I think they will.  Because, mistake or not, it set a LOT of coaches wheels turning about late/close defensive situations.

I wondered this myself. I think there's a high possibility they did do it on purpose cause losing those 6 seconds pretty much gave them no chance to win.

there will def be a rule change about this.  Why not put 25 guys on the field then?  It should be a penalty or the result of the play. If you take the penalty then no time should come off the clock.

[tim_m]

Man wins $50,000 on Tom Brady?s safety
By Maggie Hendricks | Shutdown Corner ? 7 hours ago

    27
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(Twitter.com/BenJLyons)A safety is a rare play in any game, but for it to happen in the Super Bowl as the first score of the game? No one would expect that to happen. No one would lay a bet on something so unlikely, right?

Wrong. Jona Rechnitz bet $1,000 at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas that the first score of the game would be a Giants safety. With 50-to-1 odds on such an unlikely score, Rechnitz is walking away from Las Vegas with a $50,000 pay day.

[ Related: Tom Brady in postgame daze of disappointment after loss ]

The safety came when New England Patriots quarterback Tom Brady was flagged for intentional grounding from his own end zone, giving the New York Giants two points. Brady's lapse in judgment started the game off on the wrong foot for New England, and gave Rechnitz a cool $50K. Do you think he'll send Brady a thank you note?

Here's the Tom Brady gaffe that put the cash in Mr. Rechnitz's pocket:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/man-wins-50-000-tom-brady-safety-155056494.html

[Axl4Prez2004]

I want to publicly apologize to Faldor.
Axl4Prez strikes again..."take the Patriots -2 1/2."

Folks could make some serious scratch betting against everything I predict.   

No doubt it was a fun game to watch.
If I had known Menounos would strip to a bikini had the G-Men won, perhaps I would have pulled for the Giants!
 

Who gives a poop...I'm seein' GNR in 16 days!!!   

[faldor]

I want to publicly apologize to Faldor.
Axl4Prez strikes again..."take the Patriots -2 1/2."

Folks could make some serious scratch betting against everything I predict.   

No doubt it was a fun game to watch.
If I had known Menounos would strip to a bikini had the G-Men won, perhaps I would have pulled for the Giants!
 

Who gives a poop...I'm seein' GNR in 16 days!!!   

Damn you!  I forgot you cursed the Pats by picking them.  Why did I even bother to get my hopes up?  I figure you have to get one right eventually.  Not this year though. 

[pilferk]

So much for Gronk saying the ankle would be fine and he wasn't going to need surgery at the end of the season....

[Axl4Prez2004]

Hey Faldor, speakin' of Gronk, any thoughts on his partying so soon after a Super Bowl loss?
Personally, I liked what Rodney Harrison had to say.  If he, or a bunch of other former Pats were there as teammates, he might have gotten his bell rung by them.  I was glad to hear that.
Dancin' around like a moron after a crushing loss?

Let's face it, if that was Randy Moss acting like that after their last SB loss, he'd have been treated much more harshly.
Personally, I think he was treated with kid gloves because of how goddamned good he is at his position.

btw, it drives me nuts when they call a 23 year old man a "kid."  (I'll stop pulling my pants up above my rib cage now...and I won't tell those kids to get off my lawn. )

[faldor]

Hey Faldor, speakin' of Gronk, any thoughts on his partying so soon after a Super Bowl loss?
Personally, I liked what Rodney Harrison had to say.  If he, or a bunch of other former Pats were there as teammates, he might have gotten his bell rung by them.  I was glad to hear that.
Dancin' around like a moron after a crushing loss?

Let's face it, if that was Randy Moss acting like that after their last SB loss, he'd have been treated much more harshly.
Personally, I think he was treated with kid gloves because of how goddamned good he is at his position.

btw, it drives me nuts when they call a 23 year old man a "kid."  (I'll stop pulling my pants up above my rib cage now...and I won't tell those kids to get off my lawn. )

I'd rather not see stuff like that, but overall I'm fine with it.  That's how a lot of athletes are these days.  Some players take losses harder than others.  Some can brush it off more easily.  I think Rob's problem is he's young and a bit naive.  He said after the loss that they'd be back to play in more Super Bowls down the line.  On the other hand Tom Brady always emphasizes just how hard it is to make it to the Super Bowl.  It's not something you can take for granted and expect to achieve with relative ease year in and year out.  But that's a veteran mindset at work.  Gronk has been in the league for two years and his teams have gone 27-5 in the regular season and reached the Super Bowl this year.  So he's accustomed to winning.  I'm sure a few more crushing losses would change his outlook a bit.

Plus, Gronkowski is a different breed.  He's a fun loving guy, who doesn't seem to take anything too serious.  And I mean that in a good way.  I don't mean, he doesn't take football serious or he doesn't care about the results.  He just is able to let things roll off of him a little easier than others.