NFL 2011 Season

[pilferk]

This was a response to D, that's why I used the Bronco's as an example.  Tebow was REALLY getting bailed out all season long yet D thought he was the greatest QB in the world.  Yet when Brady get's bailed out once, he was making it seem like that's how his whole career has gone by using the words "yet again." 

I'd half forgotten about D's obsession with the Tebow.  Given that...the analogy is a lot more apt.   Lets face it...any chance to take a shot at D should be taken advantage of.   
 

It's a team game, yesterday he had help to win, it happens.  I didn't like how D, who makes all the excuses in the world for Tim Tebow's shortcomings immediately jumps on Tom Brady, who is one of the best to ever play the game, with a resume that is almost unmatched.

See, that's why I chimed in.  I live in CT....so I hear the "Brady is the Messiah" stuff way more than I'd like to.  The guy is a great QB...but he's not infallible and he's not perfect.  And on the rare occasions he does fail (if you can call yesterday failing)...the media and (more annoyingly) the Pats fans I'm surrounded by make excuses.

I get it: Brady is beautiful.  Brady is amazing.  Everyone wants to have Brady's love children.  Yuk.  I respect him...but I'm not a fan.  I think the league protects him (and Brees and others) FAR more than they protect others (Eli, Vick, and others).  I think his numbers benefit from that (and, if you look at the games he's played "badly" in..they tend to be the games where the refs allow the defense to play physical defense).  And I question his toughness, especially when he whines about being hit like he did yesterday.

So when I read your response to D...it touched a nerve that had been picked at for awhile...and set me off.  Not your fault (and probably shouldn't have been directed at you...you were just an easy target)...I just had to rant. 

Pilferk, I think you are on point with all of your analysis of the games, including this one.  It was D's saying "yet again" that set me off. 

That set you off, you set me off.....we're all setting off today!

[faldor]

A couple of great games yesterday, that's for sure.  I guess I was wrong about the Ravens.  Apparently they do have the personnel to give Brady fits, regardless of the weapons Brady has at his disposal.  Brady certainly did not play well yesterday.  If you would've told me that he would have ZERO TD passes, I wouldn't have given the Pats a chance in hell of winning that game.  Their defense absolutely won that game.  They came to play and came up big.  Making Ray Rice a non factor and making Joe Flacco beat you.  Hats off to Flacco though, he did everything he could to win that game, passing for over 300 yards in defeat. 

No big surprise here, but I don't think that was a catch by Evans.  I don't think he ever truly had full possession of the ball.  If that Calvin Johnson play wasn't a catch last year, than that one certainly wasn't.  I was in utter shock when Cundiff missed that FG.  I, along with everyone else, was preparing for OT, and all of a sudden he shanks it.  Obviously the crowd went nuts after that.  As for Brady getting bailed out.  You know the old saying, "sometimes it's better to be lucky than good".  Because, by his own admission, he was not good yesterday.  Which leads me to the next game.  I freely admit, I'm worried.  If he can look that bad against the Ravens, I have every reason to believe the Giants can do the same.  He had trouble against them earlier this year and of course back in 07.  They're able to generate pressure on the QB without sending extra guys.  The only thing I have to hang my hat on is that earlier this year they didn't have Aaron Hernandez in that game and the Giants LB's and secondary don't appear to be as good as the Ravens, though I don't know that for a fact. 

Again though, I have to admit.  The sheer excitement at another Super Bowl was diminished quite a bit after the Giants won.  In part because I have a lot of friends who are Giants fans and it was absolutely horrendous dealing with them after 07.  I'd rather not go through that again.  But the biggest thing, is the Giants are just playing great football right now.  No offense to the 9ers, but I would much rather have gone against Alex Smith.  Eli is a beast.  I think the Giants should be the favorites, but that isn't the case.  But my money would be on them, at this point.  We'll see if my feelings change in the next 2 weeks.  It's rare for Brady to have 2 bad games in a row, so I would hope he could bounce back.  But, then again, it's rare that he plays 2 great defenses back to back, which is the situation here. 

Well, they made it this far.  I didn't have much faith even a few weeks ago that they could make the Super Bowl, despite their lofty regular season record.  One game to go.  This is going to be a long 2 weeks.

[pilferk]

Well, faldor...for what it's worth: Superbowl party at my house!

'Course, it'll be filled with Giants fans, so I'm not sure if you'd be interested.

I think it'll be another good game.  This post has given us SOOOO many good games...you almost feel like the SB has to be a classic.

Maybe Peyton will give Eli some pointers on how best to succeed in Indy.

[draguns]

Great game  between the Giants and San Fran. Obviously the better team on. (NY Fiants!). In two weeks, Brady will be on his back thanks to a JPP sack. Go Giants!!!!

[tim_m]

I still stand by that was a good TD catch. He had the ball clearly secured when he turned around before it got knocked out both feet had a chance to hit the turf, therefore it should've been a touchdown.

[Sober_times]

I still stand by that was a good TD catch. He had the ball clearly secured when he turned around before it got knocked out both feet had a chance to hit the turf, therefore it should've been a touchdown.

Just happen to come by and see what people thought of the games yesterday. Should be a good superbowl.

I thought the same thing as you Timothy until i took it frame by frame on my tivo last night during the nfl primetime recap of the game. The ball is in the air and when hes running backwards his right foot is off the ground and he steps off with with his left foot so when hes securing the ball both of his feet are off the ground. His right foot than touches back and his left foot is still off the ground while he is turning towards the sideline just before Moore chops the ball and lands on the turf as the ball is starting to come out during the chop. It wasn't a catch.

edited for my own clarification..lol.

[faldor]

I still stand by that was a good TD catch. He had the ball clearly secured when he turned around before it got knocked out both feet had a chance to hit the turf, therefore it should've been a touchdown.

Just happen to come by and see what people thought of the games yesterday. Should be a good superbowl.

I thought the same thing as you Timothy until i took it frame by frame on my tivo last night during the nfl primetime recap of the game. The ball is in the air and when hes running backwards his right foot is off the ground and he steps off with with his left foot so when hes securing the ball both of his feet are off the ground. His right foot than touches back and his left foot is still off the ground while he is turning towards the sideline just before Moore chops the ball and lands on the turf as the ball is starting to come out during the chop. It wasn't a catch.

edited for my own clarification..lol.

Yeah, it was a tough call obviously, but I think the right call was made.  It was NOT a catch.  Moore knocked the ball out of his hands before he could secure it.  I'm actually surprised so many people think otherwise.  Secure the ball, 2 feet down, make a football move.  I don't think he did any of those 3 things.  It was a great defensive play, plain and simple.

And thanks for the offer pilferk, but I'll be surrounding myself with solely Pats fans this time around.  I just hope the Playoff Redemption tour continues and the Patriots can avenge their most crushing defeat in 2 weeks.

[tim_m]

The pats clearly have cause for concern against the Giants i think. They played average at best yesterday on offense. The defense is what won them that game. They must be better against the giants if they want to win.

[tim_m]

I still stand by that was a good TD catch. He had the ball clearly secured when he turned around before it got knocked out both feet had a chance to hit the turf, therefore it should've been a touchdown.

Just happen to come by and see what people thought of the games yesterday. Should be a good superbowl.

I thought the same thing as you Timothy until i took it frame by frame on my tivo last night during the nfl primetime recap of the game. The ball is in the air and when hes running backwards his right foot is off the ground and he steps off with with his left foot so when hes securing the ball both of his feet are off the ground. His right foot than touches back and his left foot is still off the ground while he is turning towards the sideline just before Moore chops the ball and lands on the turf as the ball is starting to come out during the chop. It wasn't a catch.

edited for my own clarification..lol.

I guess it looked better live in full speed. I didn't look at it as closely as you did on tivo.

[faldor]

The pats clearly have cause for concern against the Giants i think. They played average at best yesterday on offense. The defense is what won them that game. They must be better against the giants if they want to win.

I agree with you.  But you can't really look at what happened last week in predicting what will happen next game, especially in the NFL.  If you looked at last weeks playoff games in the AFC, the Pats dominated the Broncos and the Ravens barely beat a Texans team who turned the ball over 4 times.  Just looking at those 2 games, you'd think the Pats would've had a much easier time against Baltimore.  And that's what I thought, initially.  I put too much stock into how good the Patriots looked and how unimpressive Baltimore looked.  So by looking at how lucky, and how unimpressive the Pats were yesterday, you would get the impression that they have a steep hill to climb.

I think the game will be quite competitive, probably will be a one score game.  Could again be whoever has the ball last wins type of game.  I do think though that the Giants are a better team than the Ravens, so the Patriots are going to have to play better to win.  The Giants seem to matchup pretty well against the Patriots offense, although the Pats could look to exploit the Giants troubles against opposing TE's.  Lord knows they have the 2 guys to help in that area.  It may sound crazy, but I actually would like the Pats to try and slow down the game a little and avoid getting into a shootout.  Run the ball a little more, and try to keep the Giants offense off the field, and in turn try to tire their defense out.

Oh, and I just saw a stat that the Patriots became the second team to have 3 turnovers and a minus 2 in that department to win a playoff game.  Something along those lines at least, the overall record was 2-100.  So needless to say, they can't be that careless with the ball and expect to win

[pilferk]

I guess it looked better live in full speed. I didn't look at it as closely as you did on tivo.

I've seen it in slo mo about 20 times, now.

I still think it's a VERY close call that could go either way.

I think he controls the ball when it hits him in the gut, then he's turning, gets both feet down (toes of the 2nd foot)...and the football move (forward progress) and the chop happen almost simultaneously.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d8263cbab/GameDay-Ravens-vs-Patriots-highlights

10:45-ish in the above video

I still contend if that's called a TD on the field...replay doesn't overturn it.

[Sober_times]

I guess it looked better live in full speed. I didn't look at it as closely as you did on tivo.

I've seen it in slo mo about 20 times, now.

I still think it's a VERY close call that could go either way.

I think he controls the ball when it hits him in the gut, then he's turning, gets both feet down (toes of the 2nd foot)...and the football move (forward progress) and the chop happen almost simultaneously.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d8263cbab/GameDay-Ravens-vs-Patriots-highlights

10:45-ish in the above video

I still contend if that's called a TD on the field...replay doesn't overturn it.

I don't know what your looking at but that toe aint down till the ball starts creeping out of his hands.

[Sober_times]

I don't see the Patriots having the same struggles against the giants defensive ends this game(compared to superbowl 42 or the week 10 game). Vollmer, if healthy, is better than Kaczur(rt from superbowl 42, hell solder is better too). Waters is an upgrade over Stephen Neal(right guard from superbowl 42). Light and Mankins have a couple games under their belt against some of those pass rushers so they should know what to expect. The entire unit, if vollmer plays, would have had good experience against some of those giants des in week 10 and should be better prepared this time. Not to say that giants des won't be better prepared too, i just feel the patriots have done a great job adjusting to teams over the years and should be able to here too.
 
I honestly feel that brady will be upright most of the superbowl. The Giants and Patriots secondaries suck(both played better in postseason, giants especially but they still had horrible regular seasons with pats ranked 31 in pass and giants 27). Its going to be an entertaining high scoring affair with Welker, Gronk and Hernandez having big games. Cruz and Nicks should have good games too. I do forsee Eli making the same types of throws he always seems to do(throwing downfield into coverage) but we'll see if the patriots secondary can capitilize on those throws.

Brady had a tough game against Baltimore but he always seems to struggle against the ravens. Thats a really good defense that knows the patriots really well and is really confident in how to play them. It seemed to me brady was expecting pass rush that wasn't there and was hurrying throws most of the game. I also feel he tends to force throws against the ravens away from Reed and it always seems to cost him. But lets remember that the first pick was a great play by a corner who made an athletic move and jumped up and snagged a nice pick(really, how often do corners make that catch). The second interception was just a spectacular play but again how often do those types of plays happen(point is you cant count on those types of picks every game). Both bad decisions? Yeah, probably but those are tough picks to make. I expect brady to be zoned in on this one and he will play much better against the Giants this time.

On another note, I do see Eli Manning as a good qb but I don't see how the media can begin to compare him to Tom Brady. Some even saying they would take Eli over Tom in this game. Its crazy. Lets dismiss the guy who's won 3 superbowls, now has been to 5, went to 6 afc championships, 2 superbowl mvps, 2 league mvps (only unanimous mvp in nfl history) Has 11 more comeback wins (tied or behind in 4th quarter) than eli who they call the 4th qtr qb. Eli had a decent 2007 campaign and a good play-off run and a decent 2011 campaign and a good play-off run. Brady's been playing at much higher level for 10 years. I just don't get it. 

[LongGoneDay]

I don't see the Patriots having the same struggles against the giants defensive ends this game(compared to superbowl 42 or the week 10 game). Vollmer, if healthy, is better than Kaczur(rt from superbowl 42, hell solder is better too). Waters is an upgrade over Stephen Neal(right guard from superbowl 42). Light and Mankins have a couple games under their belt against some of those pass rushers so they should know what to expect. The entire unit, if vollmer plays, would have had good experience against some of those giants des in week 10 and should be better prepared this time. Not to say that giants des won't be better prepared too, i just feel the patriots have done a great job adjusting to teams over the years and should be able to here too.
 
I honestly feel that brady will be upright most of the superbowl. The Giants and Patriots secondaries suck(both played better in postseason, giants especially but they still had horrible regular seasons with pats ranked 31 in pass and giants 27). Its going to be an entertaining high scoring affair with Welker, Gronk and Hernandez having big games. Cruz and Nicks should have good games too. I do forsee Eli making the same types of throws he always seems to do(throwing downfield into coverage) but we'll see if the patriots secondary can capitilize on those throws.

Brady had a tough game against Baltimore but he always seems to struggle against the ravens. Thats a really good defense that knows the patriots really well and is really confident in how to play them. It seemed to me brady was expecting pass rush that wasn't there and was hurrying throws most of the game. I also feel he tends to force throws against the ravens away from Reed and it always seems to cost him. But lets remember that the first pick was a great play by a corner who made an athletic move and jumped up and snagged a nice pick(really, how often do corners make that catch). The second interception was just a spectacular play but again how often do those types of plays happen(point is you cant count on those types of picks every game). Both bad decisions? Yeah, probably but those are tough picks to make. I expect brady to be zoned in on this one and he will play much better against the Giants this time.

On another note, I do see Eli Manning as a good qb but I don't see how the media can begin to compare him to Tom Brady. Some even saying they would take Eli over Tom in this game. Its crazy. Lets dismiss the guy who's won 3 superbowls, now has been to 5, went to 6 afc championships, 2 superbowl mvps, 2 league mvps (only unanimous mvp in nfl history) Has 11 more comeback wins (tied or behind in 4th quarter) than eli who they call the 4th qtr qb. Eli had a decent 2007 campaign and a good play-off run and a decent 2011 campaign and a good play-off run. Brady's been playing at much higher level for 10 years. I just don't get it. 

Eli is good, no doubt, but I hear what you are saying.

In '07, I don't even think Giants fans were high on Eli until he made the playoff run. Coughlin was as good as dead going into that postseason. He was definitely out of a job if not for that SB. Now I'm hearing comparisons to Belichick. Things change quickly.

Credit where it is due, though. They are getting it done. Eli may be a pimple on Peyton's ass in terms of statistics, but has a chance to pass him in Championships in 2 weeks, and with plenty of gas left in the tank. He seems a bit more poised in big games, and really, that's what counts. Brady was money early on in his career. I'm hoping the O line and Vintage Tom shows up Sunday.
For all the flack Brady is getting vs the Ravens, Eli wasn't exactly Joe Montana either. SF special teams couldn't wait to give the ball back to him. Eventually they were going to capitalize.

Should be a good game. I hope it ends differently for us Pats fans this time around. Can see it going either way.

[pilferk]

I don't know what your looking at but that toe aint down till the ball starts creeping out of his hands.

Toes (the tips) down, ball in his arms (clutched against his abdomen):



You can see the shadow of the ball across his abdomen, parallel. It's not squirting out yet.

The Pats defender is still a step (maybe 1/2 a step) behind (his left leg is furthest forward), swiping/grabbing with his left hand.  Right hand (the one that ultimately chops the ball out) is still lagging behind a tiny bit, and hasn't made contact with the ball, yet.

I'm not saying it's conclusive...you couldn't get a call overturned with it, either way.

But if you call the catch on the field, there's not enough there to overturn, and the TD stands.

Edit:
An even better angle:

[pilferk]

On another note, I do see Eli Manning as a good qb but I don't see how the media can begin to compare him to Tom Brady. Some even saying they would take Eli over Tom in this game. Its crazy. Lets dismiss the guy who's won 3 superbowls, now has been to 5, went to 6 afc championships, 2 superbowl mvps, 2 league mvps (only unanimous mvp in nfl history) Has 11 more comeback wins (tied or behind in 4th quarter) than eli who they call the 4th qtr qb. Eli had a decent 2007 campaign and a good play-off run and a decent 2011 campaign and a good play-off run. Brady's been playing at much higher level for 10 years. I just don't get it. 

It's 2 things:

Eli is tougher.

Eli tends to play "big" in big spots.

Now, I'm not saying I agree with the people saying it...but that's where they're coming from.

I'd take Eli simply because I can't stand Brady, and wouldn't want him on my team.  But that's a personal thing, not having anything to do with his skills, or ability to win a game.

One thing to keep in mind when looking at Brady's numbers:  Those early Pats teams that wracked up those rings?  STACKED.  Sure, Brady did his fair share (especially in the last one), but those teams, top to bottom, were more talented than this version of the Pats.  For most of that time, he was not putting up the gaudy stats he's put up since '04....and they haven't won one, since.

[LongGoneDay]

On another note, I do see Eli Manning as a good qb but I don't see how the media can begin to compare him to Tom Brady. Some even saying they would take Eli over Tom in this game. Its crazy. Lets dismiss the guy who's won 3 superbowls, now has been to 5, went to 6 afc championships, 2 superbowl mvps, 2 league mvps (only unanimous mvp in nfl history) Has 11 more comeback wins (tied or behind in 4th quarter) than eli who they call the 4th qtr qb. Eli had a decent 2007 campaign and a good play-off run and a decent 2011 campaign and a good play-off run. Brady's been playing at much higher level for 10 years. I just don't get it. 

It's 2 things:

Eli is tougher.

Eli tends to play "big" in big spots.

Now, I'm not saying I agree with the people saying it...but that's where they're coming from.

I'd take Eli simply because I can't stand Brady, and wouldn't want him on my team.  But that's a personal thing, not having anything to do with his skills, or ability to win a game.

One thing to keep in mind when looking at Brady's numbers:  Those early Pats teams that wracked up those rings?  STACKED.  Sure, Brady did his fair share (especially in the last one), but those teams, top to bottom, were more talented than this version of the Pats.  For most of that time, he was not putting up the gaudy stats he's put up since '04....and they haven't won one, since.

I'm not buying Eli being tougher. Not sure where that comes from.
Brady has been an elite QB in this league for a while now, and durable throughout his career, save for the '08-'09 season, but no QB in the league is playing through that injury.

Eli has played big in some big spots, but not more so than Brady.
Pats have one of the highest winning percentages in any sport since 2001, and he's been one of the only constants.
That's not a coincidence. He's won in different ways. He was not asked to do as much early on, just be efficient, and not screw it up. That's essentially what Eli did in his lone SB appearance. The second half of the Carolina SB was a shootout, and Brady won.
Not many QB's can beat him in a shootout.

Early Pats teams were certainly more well rounded, but wouldn't call them stacked. They had a bunch of high character guys who stepped up and made clutch plays when needed, but make no mistake, they weren't exactly feared, or viewed as a powerhouse from the get go. The media would have had you believe they didn't belong on the same filed as the Rams.

Pats were the laughing stock of the NFL for a longtime before this kid showed up.
Since, they have become the most dominant team in all of sports.

Credit where it's due, Eli is a nice player, but he has a long way to go before he deserves the comparison to Brady.
Beating him twice in the big game would certainly help. He has the better supporting cast in my opinion this time around.
The Pats D showed me something last week for the first time in years. Hoping it continues, because Brady has been asked to do a lot more than most upper echelon QBs have this season.

[Sober_times]

I don't know what your looking at but that toe aint down till the ball starts creeping out of his hands.

Toes (the tips) down, ball in his arms (clutched against his abdomen):



You can see the shadow of the ball across his abdomen, parallel. It's not squirting out yet.

The Pats defender is still a step (maybe 1/2 a step) behind (his left leg is furthest forward), swiping/grabbing with his left hand.  Right hand (the one that ultimately chops the ball out) is still lagging behind a tiny bit, and hasn't made contact with the ball, yet.

I'm not saying it's conclusive...you couldn't get a call overturned with it, either way.

But if you call the catch on the field, there's not enough there to overturn, and the TD stands.

Edit:
An even better angle:

I cant post a picture of it because i don't have the ability too but the second photo, if you take the video another frame you can tell that left foot hasn't touched yet. I paused and played over and over at 31 seconds of link below and too me it looks like toes don't come down till ball is out..foot is still above turf on this photo based on how foot in the next fram is a little farther left and than looks like his toes touch as the ball is starting to come out. Its a tough call but thats the way it looks to me.

Same with the first photo. i hit pause and play at 21 seconds over and over a few times on this video and you can tell left foot doesn't hit until the ball is starting to come out. It looks like the foot touched a frame before but if you take a close look at his foot when his toes land you can tell it doesnt in this pic but the angle makes it look like it did. To me anyway thats how it looks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qxx0PLn9aLI&feature=related


But even if both feet touched(perhaps its a matter of opinion cuz were obviously seeing it differently), he doesn't hold on to it for more than tenths of a second if that long. When in today's nfl has that been considered possession? If that were the case there would be alot more catch fumbles called. Called a touchdown it would of been overturned i think.

[Sober_times]

On another note, I do see Eli Manning as a good qb but I don't see how the media can begin to compare him to Tom Brady. Some even saying they would take Eli over Tom in this game. Its crazy. Lets dismiss the guy who's won 3 superbowls, now has been to 5, went to 6 afc championships, 2 superbowl mvps, 2 league mvps (only unanimous mvp in nfl history) Has 11 more comeback wins (tied or behind in 4th quarter) than eli who they call the 4th qtr qb. Eli had a decent 2007 campaign and a good play-off run and a decent 2011 campaign and a good play-off run. Brady's been playing at much higher level for 10 years. I just don't get it. 

It's 2 things:

Eli is tougher.

Eli tends to play "big" in big spots.

Now, I'm not saying I agree with the people saying it...but that's where they're coming from.

I'd take Eli simply because I can't stand Brady, and wouldn't want him on my team.  But that's a personal thing, not having anything to do with his skills, or ability to win a game.

One thing to keep in mind when looking at Brady's numbers:  Those early Pats teams that wracked up those rings?  STACKED.  Sure, Brady did his fair share (especially in the last one), but those teams, top to bottom, were more talented than this version of the Pats.  For most of that time, he was not putting up the gaudy stats he's put up since '04....and they haven't won one, since.

Eli is tougher, why? because he takes sacks and still wins? Brady does that. Ohh i get it brady complains about penalties. Nah hes not being a pussy hes trying to get a flag and i dont blame him.

Eli tends to play big in big spots? Brady has never done that?

I understand the personal thing. My brother-in-law is from indy and hates eli with a passion. Always has since college, thinks he sucks and gets away with too many bad throws.

I can't see with all of brady has done that Eli is in that class yet. When I think of the elite qbs in the leauge in no paticular order i think of Peyton, Brady, Brees, Rothlisberger, Rodgers and than thinking of the next teir where Eli is. He's played good in spots but I still think I would take Rivers over him with the same supporting cast Eli has.

[pilferk]

I cant post a picture of it because i don't have the ability too but the second photo, if you take the video another frame you can tell that left foot hasn't touched yet. I paused and played over and over at 31 seconds of link below and too me it looks like toes don't come down till ball is out..foot is still above turf on this photo based on how foot in the next fram is a little farther left and than looks like his toes touch as the ball is starting to come out. Its a tough call but thats the way it looks to me.

I've watched the whole thing in frame by frame (you've got 2 frames, above).

It's touched, and then it pivots.  You can see the tension in his leg and thigh, which means there's pressure against the ground.  The FOOT didn't come down until the ball starts to squirt.  But the foot doesn't need to be down.  Toe tips count.

Physics says he could not assume that position, in the air.  He has to have something to press against.  Also, if he came down from that position (assuming he could get in it) he'd break his ankle.

The foot/toes have contact.  No question.

Same with the first photo. i hit pause and play at 21 seconds over and over a few times on this video and you can tell left foot doesn't hit until the ball is starting to come out. It looks like the foot touched a frame before but if you take a close look at his foot when his toes land you can tell it doesnt in this pic but the angle makes it look like it did. To me anyway thats how it looks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qxx0PLn9aLI&feature=related

It might seem that way to you..but it's not the case.  The tips of the toes have contact.  You can tell because, aside from the physics, you can't see a shadow below the toes.  He's on the ground.

But even if both feet touched(perhaps its a matter of opinion cuz were obviously seeing it differently), he doesn't hold on to it for more than tenths of a second if that long. When in today's nfl has that been considered possession? If that were the case there would be alot more catch fumbles called. Called a touchdown it would of been overturned i think.

Duration of control, once you cross the plain in the endzone, doesn't matter.  You simply have to catch, control, and make a football move....because the ball crossing the plain in control instantly = TD.  That's why you have receivers lunging with their hand, to get the ball across the plain, as their bodies go out of bounds.

The first two happened, the 2nd occurred simultaneously with the chop.  

I'll stand by my opinion on this.

But even you say:  It's so close that opinions are going to differ.  That means that there isn't "incontrovertible proof". That being said, you basically agree that the ruling on the field (TD or no catch) was going to be the ruling that stood.  

I think the guy on the field could have called either way.