Al-Qaeda leader Bin Laden 'dead'

[One.In.A.Million]

It seems like the US is getting ready to release a picture of Bin Laden, as they just announced that obviously the pictures they took are gruesome. So I expect to see a picture surface in the next 1-2 days, and I think it's the right thing to do personally. 

[tim_m]

US isn't perfect, sure we've had our black eyes like a lot of other countries, slavery being number 1 the Native Americans number 2, but I don't think the US have ever intentionally murdered innocent people. has it happened? unfortunately yes but I think those that say the US should mind their own business need to remember what happened back in the 1930's when we minded our own business and a certain evil bastard named Hitler almost ruled the entire eastern world.

Well i hate to burst your bubble here but we have intentionally killed innocent people. I know this because a friend who is a former marine was a laser guide for missles during missons in Kosovo in the 90s. One of the missions he had to do was missle guiding for an orphange because Milosivich had installed a weapon system on the roof.

[Loaded NightraiN]

US isn't perfect, sure we've had our black eyes like a lot of other countries, slavery being number 1 the Native Americans number 2, but I don't think the US have ever intentionally murdered innocent people. has it happened? unfortunately yes but I think those that say the US should mind their own business need to remember what happened back in the 1930's when we minded our own business and a certain evil bastard named Hitler almost ruled the entire eastern world.

Well i hate to burst your bubble here but we have intentionally killed innocent people. I know this because a friend who is a former marine was a laser guide for missles during missons in Kosovo in the 90s. One of the missions he had to do was missle guiding for an orphange because Milosivich had installed a weapon system on the roof.

What kind of scumbag wold put a weapon system on the roof? Again the price of war

[Ulises]

Can I just state my opinion? I don't mourn the death of Bin laden, in fact if anything I'm relieved that a dangerous mass murderer won't be able to plot any more attacks against innocent civilians. But at the same time, I really don't feel the need to go out and celebrate his death. I was shocked when I saw people in muslim countries celebrating the death of thousands of civilians after 9/11, but do we really have to lower ourselves to the same barbaric level? If I was an american, I would go to the cemetery and light candles for the civilian victims of 9/11 and the 10 years of war and madness that followed, rather than grab a case of beer in one hand and a flag in the other and go get wasted. That's my two cents. Hope you understand.

I've thought about that and I can see your point.  I too was aghast at the sites of people in Afghanistan celebrating the destruction of 9/11. 

HOWEVER, I think these two things are drastically different.  THEY were celebrating the fact that 1000's of people were killed in the most horrific act of terrorism (cowardice) in world history.  They were celebrating an entire country being weakened.  They were burning American flags, etc. 

Americans were celebrating the death of ONE man.  This was not about Afghanistan, Pakistan, the Middle East, Islam.  This was about killing ONE man who orchestrated 9/11 and many other atrocities all across the world over the past few decades.

Surely, you can see the difference.

Just read "cowardice" .

Boy! Burst into a house with the most amazing military equipment in the world, and kill an unarmed man (and yes, i know he was an awful person) is so fuckin' brave! My god! It's epic.


The best thing to do is capture Bin Laden and judge him. But no...the savior from the north of America preffered to kill him. That's not justice, that's revenge. That's not civilized, that's savagery.

[D]

i will admit, seeing all those people on TV just kinda... i dont know the word for it but i thought it was a bit beneath our dignity to be honest.

shouldn't be used as an excuse to party and get drunk...... All those innocent lives are still lost.

[Ulises]

i will admit, seeing all those people on TV just kinda... i dont know the word for it but i thought it was a bit beneath our dignity to be honest.

shouldn't be used as an excuse to party and get drunk...... All those innocent lives are still lost.

Agree with you 10000000%.


Good read:

"it's as simple and as complicated as this, rejoicing over anybodys death is uncivilised. Thats our big thing, isn't it? Civility, being the standard bearers for civility on as opposed to the barbarians in whatever other part of the world we happen to be at loggerheads with at Iany given time.

It's like this, a guys a murderer, thats our gripe with him mainly, the fact that he ordered or orchestrated the death of lots of people and rejoiced in it. So then where does that leave us when we rejoice over his dead body? How different does that make us from those that burn and stomp the union jack or the stars and stripes. Moral high ground, or some degree of moral high ground is immediately surrendered when you rejoice over a corpse.

First of all, the achievement is purely symbolic. Bin Laden was not the birth of terrorism and his death will not be the end of it. Essentially an icon has been killed. You do not defeat human will through acts of force, it simply isn't possible, you defeat it through addressing the issues that guide and direct the will in question.

Maybe it's just me but if my mother or father were killed...or friend or family member, i might believe that justice was served by that person being dead but i don't think i'd rejoice. I don't think i COULD rejoice. I mean, the problem here is that some near and dear to me is dead. To rejoice over the dead body of their murderer i think is a disservice to the memory of the dead. Like its all OK now, like the horror and tragedy of their death has been nullified and is suddenly grounds for jubilation now that the person responsible for their death has been killed, it just seems so crooked.

And it's not even about respect for the dead, if a dead mans a cunt call him a cunt but to be happy that someones dead? Ain't in me i'm afraid and i'm of the opinion that it is symptomatic of the general moral decay of society and in effect, part of the problem with the world we live in, it's why we have sickos and terrorism etc because quite frankly, we meet sickos and terrorists half way, we believe in their rationale, the notion of righteous murder and the celebration of murder as a function of justice.

We ain't evens, it ain't OK now, we ain't balanced the fucking slate, those people are still fucking dead. Justice? Whaddya mean justice?!?! It's OK now, it's just, the deaths that have happened post 9/11 were just one death (Bin Ladens) away from being OK, noooo, noo fuckin way, thats a cop out, total fucking cop out.

There are no victors in war. Bin Laden is dead and if you think we are any the better off for it, if the human race is at all closer to some sort of equilibrium or peace as a result of one dead Arab on the outskirts of Islamabad you're mistaken.

And as far as his being a coward, i agree but not for the reasons epoused in a previous post by someone, that he was living in a mansion and not in the mountains or wherever. The fact is Bin Laden fought, Bin Laden fought on the front line as a mujahid against the soviets and was injured whilst fighting, Bin Laden was far from a coward in the way someone who fears war is a coward...Bin Laden is a coward because he DEMANDED war (yes that's possible).

Mourn the deaths of the innocent, don't party over the corpse of those that you deem to be guilty, the innocent aren't any less dead as a result of Bin Laden being killed, THEY are the point of all this, they should be the focal point of your emotions. Have a moments silence for those that died in the twin towers, those that died in Afghanistan and Iraq (thats the Iraqi's and Afghans as well as your own lot), it beats a "YAY, BIN LADENS DEAD" barbeque."

[D]

I look at it like this. as pissed as we were when the Taliban were doing the same thing in the streets after 9/11, we technically did the same shit in their eyes


So we should've had a bit more class.

[Ulises]

I look at it like this. as pissed as we were when the Taliban were doing the same thing in the streets after 9/11, we technically did the same shit in their eyes


So we should've had a bit more class.

Standing ovation.


As Jarmo said in World Cup discussion: that's C-L-A-S-S.

[14 Yrs Of Silence]

All cuntries are motivated to do things for selfish reasons.  Some cuntries sit back and let other cuntries do the dirty work.

[GeorgeSteele]

I look at it like this. as pissed as we were when the Taliban were doing the same thing in the streets after 9/11, we technically did the same shit in their eyes


So we should've had a bit more class.

Yes, it's the same thing.  And celebrating the death of Hitler is the same as celebrating the Holocaust.  Makes perfect sense. 

Look, I understand the opinion that you shouldn't celebrate any death, no matter, but the difference in celebrations is beyond obvious and to compare the two is disingenuous. 

[One.In.A.Million]

Well call me crazy, but I won't believe any of this until I've seen Obama's birth certificate.   

But on a serious note, I think people rejoicing about Bin Ladens death is justified and I can't believe we have people questioning the US celebrating. I mean really, after everything he has stood for and what he encouraged followers to do.  

I also think alot of this has got to do with the graphic nature of what went down on 9/11. We all know that people in the middle-east die everyday, and is it fair, no it isn't. But to attack to skyscrappers in daylight with commecial planes, filled with normal people, is something that sticks in your head like a bullet (no pun intended).

I don't blame anyone for celebrating, let them have their day, they deserve it after all of the mental scars 9/11 left.  

[Ulises]

Well call me crazy, but I won't believe any of this until I've seen Obama's birth certificate.   

But on a serious note, I think people rejoicing about Bin Ladens death is justified and I can't believe we have people questioning the US celebrating. I mean really, after everything he has stood for and what he encouraged followers to do.  

I also think alot of this has got to do with the graphic nature of what went down on 9/11. We all know that people in the middle-east die everyday, and is it fair, no it isn't. But to attack to skyscrappers in daylight with commecial planes, filled with normal people, is something that sticks in your head like a bullet (no pun intended).

I don't blame anyone for celebrating, let them have their day, they deserve it after all of the mental scars 9/11 left.  

Do you know that some USA actions in all the world left "mental scars" too? The ENTIRE WORLD has mental scars because of USA.

Stop victimizing USA, please. USA (no...that's not fair...USA GOVERNMENTS) is evil as Bin Laden was. Face it.

[One.In.A.Million]

Well call me crazy, but I won't believe any of this until I've seen Obama's birth certificate.   

But on a serious note, I think people rejoicing about Bin Ladens death is justified and I can't believe we have people questioning the US celebrating. I mean really, after everything he has stood for and what he encouraged followers to do.  

I also think alot of this has got to do with the graphic nature of what went down on 9/11. We all know that people in the middle-east die everyday, and is it fair, no it isn't. But to attack to skyscrappers in daylight with commecial planes, filled with normal people, is something that sticks in your head like a bullet (no pun intended).

I don't blame anyone for celebrating, let them have their day, they deserve it after all of the mental scars 9/11 left.  

Do you know that some USA actions in all the world left "mental scars", too? The ENTIRE WORLD has mental scars because of USA.

Stop victimizing USA, please. USA (no...that's not fair...USA GOVERNMENTS) is evil as Bin Laden was. Face it.

I'm not saying that the US hasn't caused the same misery to thousands of people unjusticely as well. I'm not on either side regarding that debate, but just as most of the people in countries like Pakistan, Afganistan and Iraq, who rejoiced after 9/11. Why the hell shouldn't the American people do the same, it's human nature, just like the food chain, "you gonna do it to me?, well I'm gonna do it to you right back". 

And there's alot of stuff going on behind all of this that we cannot, comprehend. In the end, the American people are being used as puppets, just like the civilians in the middle-east. They are but players in a game, ran by people who are invisible, and who we will never see. 

[14 Yrs Of Silence]

To the two guys from Argentina, you think your government's shit don't stink?  Dropping civilian's from planes?  Thats cool I guess.  STFU!

[D]

I look at it like this. as pissed as we were when the Taliban were doing the same thing in the streets after 9/11, we technically did the same shit in their eyes


So we should've had a bit more class.

Yes, it's the same thing.  And celebrating the death of Hitler is the same as celebrating the Holocaust.  Makes perfect sense. 

Look, I understand the opinion that you shouldn't celebrate any death, no matter, but the difference in celebrations is beyond obvious and to compare the two is disingenuous. 

thats not what Im saying. U aren't getting the point I am making.  the way we felt when we saw them dancing in the streets etc is the exact same feeling they are now feeling watching our people dance in the street etc. to them its the exact same thing.

I'm not saying its the same thing but in THEIR brains it is.

[Bobarcord]

I look at it like this. as pissed as we were when the Taliban were doing the same thing in the streets after 9/11, we technically did the same shit in their eyes


So we should've had a bit more class.

Yes, it's the same thing.  And celebrating the death of Hitler is the same as celebrating the Holocaust.  Makes perfect sense. 

Look, I understand the opinion that you shouldn't celebrate any death, no matter, but the difference in celebrations is beyond obvious and to compare the two is disingenuous. 

thats not what Im saying. U aren't getting the point I am making.  the way we felt when we saw them dancing in the streets etc is the exact same feeling they are now feeling watching our people dance in the street etc. to them its the exact same thing.

I'm not saying its the same thing but in THEIR brains it is.

[Ulises]

To the two guys from Argentina, you think your government's shit don't stink?  Dropping civilian's from planes?  Thats cool I guess.  STFU!

That was a dictatorship (PLANTED by US government actually! as well as chilean dictatorship and uruguayan, brazilian, etc ), that wasn't voted by people, they were tyrants. It was a dictatorship. You've never had dictatorship in your land but you claim to be democracy warriors when you act like dictators (talking about foreign policy, of course). You get the difference?

[faldor]

Can I just state my opinion? I don't mourn the death of Bin laden, in fact if anything I'm relieved that a dangerous mass murderer won't be able to plot any more attacks against innocent civilians. But at the same time, I really don't feel the need to go out and celebrate his death. I was shocked when I saw people in muslim countries celebrating the death of thousands of civilians after 9/11, but do we really have to lower ourselves to the same barbaric level? If I was an american, I would go to the cemetery and light candles for the civilian victims of 9/11 and the 10 years of war and madness that followed, rather than grab a case of beer in one hand and a flag in the other and go get wasted. That's my two cents. Hope you understand.

I've thought about that and I can see your point.  I too was aghast at the sites of people in Afghanistan celebrating the destruction of 9/11. 

HOWEVER, I think these two things are drastically different.  THEY were celebrating the fact that 1000's of people were killed in the most horrific act of terrorism (cowardice) in world history.  They were celebrating an entire country being weakened.  They were burning American flags, etc. 

Americans were celebrating the death of ONE man.  This was not about Afghanistan, Pakistan, the Middle East, Islam.  This was about killing ONE man who orchestrated 9/11 and many other atrocities all across the world over the past few decades.

Surely, you can see the difference.

Just read "cowardice" .

Boy! Burst into a house with the most amazing military equipment in the world, and kill an unarmed man (and yes, i know he was an awful person) is so fuckin' brave! My god! It's epic.


The best thing to do is capture Bin Laden and judge him. But no...the savior from the north of America preffered to kill him. That's not justice, that's revenge. That's not civilized, that's savagery.

Oh please, we landed in a fucking compound with helicopters.  They HAD to be prepared to protect themselves.  We went in and took out the main target.  We could've easily bombed the hell out of him from the air and taken the easy route. 

I love how you make it sound like it was such a simple task, what the Navy SEALS pulled off.

And capturing him and putting him on trial would've caused much more harm than good.  He's better off dead, they gave him a proper burial.  The world is a better place.

Ulises, come right out and say it.  I know you're dying to.  The US got what they deserved on 9/11.  That sure sounds like what you're getting at.  That's a slippery slope to climb my man.  All the hatred you have for America is very unbecoming.  I'm sure you're a good guy deep down, but you sure aren't showing it in this thread.  Keep blaming America for all your problems if it makes you feel better.

[faldor]

I look at it like this. as pissed as we were when the Taliban were doing the same thing in the streets after 9/11, we technically did the same shit in their eyes


So we should've had a bit more class.

Yes, it's the same thing.  And celebrating the death of Hitler is the same as celebrating the Holocaust.  Makes perfect sense. 

Look, I understand the opinion that you shouldn't celebrate any death, no matter, but the difference in celebrations is beyond obvious and to compare the two is disingenuous. 

thats not what Im saying. U aren't getting the point I am making.  the way we felt when we saw them dancing in the streets etc is the exact same feeling they are now feeling watching our people dance in the street etc. to them its the exact same thing.

I'm not saying its the same thing but in THEIR brains it is.

In THEIR minds, everything we do is despicable.  We can't do anything right in their minds, or in the minds of many throughout the world, a few who are posting in this very thread.

[Ulises]

Can I just state my opinion? I don't mourn the death of Bin laden, in fact if anything I'm relieved that a dangerous mass murderer won't be able to plot any more attacks against innocent civilians. But at the same time, I really don't feel the need to go out and celebrate his death. I was shocked when I saw people in muslim countries celebrating the death of thousands of civilians after 9/11, but do we really have to lower ourselves to the same barbaric level? If I was an american, I would go to the cemetery and light candles for the civilian victims of 9/11 and the 10 years of war and madness that followed, rather than grab a case of beer in one hand and a flag in the other and go get wasted. That's my two cents. Hope you understand.

I've thought about that and I can see your point.  I too was aghast at the sites of people in Afghanistan celebrating the destruction of 9/11. 

HOWEVER, I think these two things are drastically different.  THEY were celebrating the fact that 1000's of people were killed in the most horrific act of terrorism (cowardice) in world history.  They were celebrating an entire country being weakened.  They were burning American flags, etc. 

Americans were celebrating the death of ONE man.  This was not about Afghanistan, Pakistan, the Middle East, Islam.  This was about killing ONE man who orchestrated 9/11 and many other atrocities all across the world over the past few decades.

Surely, you can see the difference.

Just read "cowardice" .

Boy! Burst into a house with the most amazing military equipment in the world, and kill an unarmed man (and yes, i know he was an awful person) is so fuckin' brave! My god! It's epic.


The best thing to do is capture Bin Laden and judge him. But no...the savior from the north of America preffered to kill him. That's not justice, that's revenge. That's not civilized, that's savagery.

Oh please, we landed in a fucking compound with helicopters.  They HAD to be prepared to protect themselves.  We went in and took out the main target.  We could've easily bombed the hell out of him from the air and taken the easy route. 

I love how you make it sound like it was such a simple task, what the Navy SEALS pulled off.

And capturing him and putting him on trial would've caused much more harm than good.  He's better off dead, they gave him a proper burial.  The world is a better place.

Ulises, come right out and say it.  I know you're dying to.  The US got what they deserved on 9/11.  That sure sounds like what you're getting at.  That's a slippery slope to climb my man.  All the hatred you have for America is very unbecoming.  I'm sure you're a good guy deep down, but you sure aren't showing it in this thread.  Keep blaming America for all your problems if it makes you feel better.

9/11  was a tragedy and I'll never wish pain to a country or a person or whatever (like YOU do). I don't think you "deserved" that, maybe is a "lesson" to a country who always thought they were the greatest and that they could do whatever they want with the whole fuckin' world (but to implay 9/11 made me happy is stupid). 9/11 was a tragedy. Period. A tragedy where the US was involved because Osama Bin Laden was built by U.S.A. . It was some kind of "backfire" effect.