Bumblefoot Says Bands Don't Need Labels

[Halo69]

So you think that Bumblefoot doing things the way he has been since 1998, and that GN'R being contracted to Geffen is my opinion? Someone has to show you the difference between opinion and indisputable fact.

Its not an undisputable fact... the undisputable fact is that he has in fact some followers but 90% of his fans are GNR fans. That doesn't mean he's a bad musician, of course not, he's a great guitar player, but he's solo career jumped when he went to GNR. He became more famous due to GNR and GNR are contracted to Geffen, never said they weren't.

I wonder why they're still in Geffen since labels suck so much... hum?! 

Btw... just because he has been doing things the way it is since 98 doesn't mean he couldn't be more successful with a label contract, it doesn't even mean that he was successful! It depends on what you consider that being successful is.

[AxlReznor]

You obviously fail to understand the concept of a contract. Why are they still with Geffen? Because they can't not be until they've fulfilled the terms of their contract. Those terms might have already been fulfilled, but we won't know until it comes time for them to release a new album, because it isn't until then that it becomes relevant. But what I do know is, before Chinese Democracy was released, they definitely hadn't fulfilled the terms of their contract. How do I know this? Because they'd hardly be willing to put millions of dollars into an album that wasn't being released by them, that's why.

And the point was not 'can you become rich and famous with a label?'... it was, 'can you be a successful musician without a label?'. And the answer to that is a most definite yes. If you're not one of these people who measures success by how many zero's come at the end of your bank balance. (The answer to the first question would be nowadays: famous, yes. Rich? Probably not).

[Halo69]

Bumblefoot got famous with GNR! He was barely known before.

In my opinion Axl and GNR are with Geffen because they want to be with Geffen, because they've always been with Geffen, and because Geffen allows them to have the monetary freedom to be a band and to produce music.
After all they spent 13 millions on a record... would Axl and GNR do that by themselves? Not...


This is where our opinion differs from mine  but its fine you know, i respect your opinion 

[jarmo]

Are you a musician? Are you in the music business?

I'm curious.






/jarmo

Are you?
I don't need to be in the music industry to have knowledge of what's obvious.

Do you think new bands do the whole bar circuit only for fun? Don't you think they have goals of getting signed with a record label that can promote them so they can get famous and rich as well? its pretty obvious...
At the end of the day its a job... the more money you get the better...

I stand by my opinion  

I tend to take somebody who has experience from the business more seriously than somebody who likes to think he knows.


For example, you mentioned record companies making the physical cds and distributing them... That can be done without record companies.



/jarmo

[Halo69]

i don't need to be involved in the business to understand some of the basics of it, but i do have some 1 or 2 friends at Universal, now that you mentioned  and im currently on the process of starting my new job at Apple.

but anyways, im not saying its not possible to do the distribution, but it certainly isn't easier than having the label doing it for you. Its not the biggest deal here. The biggest deal is the promotion, its getting people to know you exist and that your music exists and its good shit.

You can be independent and have the biggest distribution company working for you making sure your cd will be available on every store in the country or even in the world... but if people don't know about you, chances are your cd will still remain there on a cd store's shelve.

An independent musician doesn't have the same kind of support from advertising that the labels do and they also don't have the same kind of money the labels do to help promote their cd.
All they can do is to do a website, hire a distribution company to spread their cd as you said, and advertise it on facebook, itunes or any other website they might have it.

With a label, you get TV endorsement, advertising, itunes as well, websites, radio time, interviews, your music videos airing! All organized by the label and by your management.

If you're independent chances are.. you're not gonna get that kind of endorsement. You might get to do a few interviews here and there, and you might get a couple of fans etc, but you're never gonna be as successful as a contracted band or musician. Labels are marketing machines and they have the power and money at their disposal.

Bumblefoot is a different situation, he's enrolled in a very well known band, a band that sells millions at the same time he's doing his solo stuff. People get curious, they wanna check out where this guy Bumblefoot came from and what he can bring to the table in GNR, and what kind of music he makes solo.

Its different than a new band starting needing a push, with no connections to any GNR kind of band or anything of that kind.

Thats why i said Bumblefoot got a little bit carried away on that interview... it might work great with him because he has this type of connections and because he works with GNR at the same time, but its totally different for bands that are starting now and have no connections to any music giant like GNR is.

[jarmo]

You are aware that there are companies that even record companies hire to do marketing?

When even the biggest artists aren't selling a million copies in the first week, maybe it's not about how many physical cds you can ship or how big the advertisement billboards are?


Record stores? Or stores in general?



/jarmo

[Halo69]

You are aware that there are companies that even record companies hire to do marketing?

When even the biggest artists aren't selling a million copies in the first week, maybe it's not about how many physical cds you can ship or how big the advertisement billboards are?


Record stores? Or stores in general?



/jarmo

I am aware, but still the label does organize everything, the label and your management. You're not alone! You have a bunch of guys working for you that have been in the music business for years and years and you have a marketing machine on your back. Its different than having to do it all on your own, especially if you're just starting.

[Halo69]

I do have to admit though that im kinda old school, i think the beauty of the music industry is when bands are just starting and they do the bar circuit and starve to get a record company to sign them and then become famous! That's just fuckin rock n roll! But i like it! 

That's when a band is in its purest state of mind! I just love it but im not basing my opinion on my taste.

[jarmo]

You are aware that there are companies that even record companies hire to do marketing?

When even the biggest artists aren't selling a million copies in the first week, maybe it's not about how many physical cds you can ship or how big the advertisement billboards are?


Record stores? Or stores in general?



/jarmo

I am aware, but still the label does organize everything, the label and your management. You're not alone! You have a bunch of guys working for you that have been in the music business for years and years and you have a marketing machine on your back. Its different than having to do it all on your own, especially if you're just starting.

Sound nice! Unfortunately it's not always the case.

You are not the only band/artist on that company's roster. You're a name among many.

If you're just starting, you might not have any kind of personal relationships with people working there.



Also, you don't even mention the negatives....None of what you say comes for free.




/jarmo

[Halo69]

Well there's always negatives! Obviously even if you get contracted doesn't mean you're gonna have immediate success, you have to have the talent and the luck factor too.

Also the negatives are the fact that record companies rip off artists the best they can in any way they can, which is unfortunate and its very negative but hey they still manage to be rich and work at what they always wanted to work, so i can't really feel sorry for them, but yeah its unfortunate, no matter what kind of money you make, you don't like to be ripped off.

Another negative, its the GNR example, where they want to dictate the material and every step Axl makes. That usually happens with bands that have a certain status and that they feel that they have to act a certain way to maintain it.

[jarmo]

Well there's always negatives! Obviously even if you get contracted doesn't mean you're gonna have immediate success, you have to have the talent and the luck factor too.

Also the negatives are the fact that record companies rip off artists the best they can in any way they can, which is unfortunate and its very negative but hey they still manage to be rich and work at what they always wanted to work, so i can't really feel sorry for them, but yeah its unfortunate

Are you aware that the industry has changed? It seems like record companies don't have the "patience" to build a career. They want results and make profit from day one, just like any other business.


To me it seems like your idea of a record company is very romantic and somewhat naive.

Like they take a band from a club, add some magic and then the band is playing in stadiums while selling millions of copies of their major label album.





/jarmo

[AxlReznor]

Also, even the biggest bands from the last ten years or so have not made any money. At least not without having to sell their image or music to commercials, etc. Just selling a ton of records is not a good way to make money any more. And now that record labels have realised that bands make more on merchandise, they've even started putting in that they take a share of the merchandise profits into contracts, so they don't even make much on that.

Basically, record labels have eaten themselves to the point where they expect to not do half of the work they used to do, but get more money from the artist for it.

[Halo69]

Well there's always negatives! Obviously even if you get contracted doesn't mean you're gonna have immediate success, you have to have the talent and the luck factor too.

Also the negatives are the fact that record companies rip off artists the best they can in any way they can, which is unfortunate and its very negative but hey they still manage to be rich and work at what they always wanted to work, so i can't really feel sorry for them, but yeah its unfortunate

Are you aware that the industry has changed? It seems like record companies don't have the "patience" to build a career. They want results and make profit from day one, just like any other business.


To me it seems like your idea of a record company is very romantic and somewhat naive.

Like they take a band from a club, add some magic and then the band is playing in stadiums while selling millions of copies of their major label album.





/jarmo

No its not like that at all, but i still believe that a record company can be the platform for the bands to shine. Of course there's a lot of shit that comes with it and sometimes you may never enjoy success, but i think its easier to be succesful when you're in a label. The hardest thing is to get signed by the label, thats a very important first step. After that there's another very hard part which is getting your music spread. It will or will not work... it depends of various complex things, like everything in life, like i said you have to be very lucky as well and very talented.

Im sure that if they see an undeniable talent in you, like they saw in Guns in the 80s, they will be the first ones to rub their hands and get ready to make money out of it.

Its not just the record companies and independent musicians, its about the business itself and the various timings for each genre. For example we don't really live in a great time as far as rock n roll is concern like in the 80s or 90s. It has its up and downs. That will be a major factor as well.

[Halo69]

Basically, record labels have eaten themselves to the point where they expect to not do half of the work they used to do, but get more money from the artist for it.

With that i have to agree, thats true unfortunately! But it depends from case to case and the artist has to make good arrangements or at least try to with them, which i recognize it doesn't come that easy

[D]

The only reason GNR need a label is for the advance they get to record the album.

CD reportedly cost 13 million to make...... the label fronts that 13 million for the most part.

If Axl/GNR had to pay that out of pocket......... I just don't see it.

Now, if Axl and Co. can figure out a more efficient/cheaper way to record on their own, they obviously have no need for a label.

Axl can get radio tours,tv appearances, magazine covers/feature articles without the help of a label.

Axl can get a video played on VH1,Fuse etc without the help of a major label.

Axl can get a single played on the radio without the help of a major label although having the big power guys certainly influence radio to spin it more but tons of bands do fine on the radio without major label push.


But it does come down to financing the recording process.

[Halo69]

The only reason GNR need a label is for the advance they get to record the album.

CD reportedly cost 13 million to make...... the label fronts that 13 million for the most part.

If Axl/GNR had to pay that out of pocket......... I just don't see it.

Now, if Axl and Co. can figure out a more efficient/cheaper way to record on their own, they obviously have no need for a label.

Axl can get radio tours,tv appearances, magazine covers/feature articles without the help of a label.

Axl can get a video played on VH1,Fuse etc without the help of a major label.

Axl can get a single played on the radio without the help of a major label although having the big power guys certainly influence radio to spin it more but tons of bands do fine on the radio without major label push.


But it does come down to financing the recording process.

Thats true! But thats because Axl and GNR are both established names in the music industry! If it was a band that was just starting it would be much harder and they would need to the label!

[gnrjanus]

I think it's my opinion.


Bands in this age don't need labels,

the only 2 things they need is a will to do whatever they can by any means and to stick to that.

the other thing is they need someone inside their group or close to the group to be a some kind of manager who helps them out find gigs and keep the band on edge when they aren't.

Bands can sell anything these days but only looking at what fans want?

You really have to ask your self, What would u wanna buy at a concert???

A T-shirt? 5? easy money if it sells well, A lighter (people smoke so a lighter is a good option) Buttons??? Posters with the shirts? a demo.

bands need to look outside the box and into the eyes of people coming to their shows and really think... well What would I wanna buy and is usefull when I buy it?

and for recording stuff etc, You don't need big money anymore to record an album. Just look around and find a cheap place and all you need is a mixer on your left hand wich if rigt cost less then when you record it and let it be mixed at the same place.

as for gigs, Get yourself out their play as many shows as posible but do remember people don't notice you when you play a lot of shows but you don't come back once in a while at a place you already played.  look to get people's interest, be the best Rock n F*cking Roll band you can be, be energenic! perform a show.... Don't care about your playing just let it all go and people will notice you.

My band doesn't need a label because I think we can manage ourselfs.

finding gigs isn't to hard for us.
Selling some merchandise isn't to hard for us either.
Recording our first demo isn't hard.
and performing live and playing a damn good show hasn't been hard for us also.

it's all about showing what you got and showing people who you are, don't try to compete, be yourself find more bands and go to their shows become friends with them and who knows you can help eachother out one way or another!

compete in festivals, play competitions with your band do whatever you can!

the internet is the best way to find out what is good for your band!

Hope this comes in handy for a few men or woman on this board.

Peace!

[D]

^
Well it really depends on what level of success u are looking at though.

If u want to be a nice Indy band with a cult/hardcore following, then NO u don't need a label.

If u want to end up on the cover of Rolling Stone and sell out arenas across the globe, u probably will have to have a label helping u out staring out in your career.

so just depends.

I personally think a label is much needed for new artists looking to hit it big time.

[MrGawain]

I think it all comes down to wether you want to try to make the big time, or make a living. Record labels have made countless megastars in the past, whereas I can't think of one Musician who has become a 'star' (if that really is worth being) without no aid whatsoever from a record company; the closest being Sandy Thom who was secretly financed by a record company to look like an indie star on myspace.

All a record label is a bank that loans money to its artists, then spends it for them. Look at the kids who win X-Idol thingy; they get given a million dollar contract from the label, and then the label spends their money on recording, printing of CD's and distribution, makeup and hairstyling, a video, security, advertising, PR people, a band to tour, a tour itself etc... What most people don't know is this doesn't mean the artist is a million dollars better off in the bank. In the digital age you can argue if you need that stuff or not.

If you want to be a musician who makes a respectable wage, with a lot of work you can do so on your own using the internet. Get a strong following of 2000 fans who all buy your releases, and you can have a career. But If you want to be the next U2 or Madonna and sell 10 million records of your first album, headline Wembley Stadium and have your own flip flop range, you need money to finance such grand plans (and talent, but the money is just as important). I heard Steven Tyler talking the other day on something and he pointed in out that in the 60's, there were 200 bands across America trying to become stars; now there are 20,000. Just because you've made a record in your bedroom and recorded a music video in a local bar and posted it on YouTube doesn't mean everyone is going to notice you. This is why record companies now put their energies into 'celebrity pop stars' instead of less open musicians who don't have a story to put on a weekly tv show. Of course you could also argue the days of 10 million album sales are all but over.

As a side note, I don't think the big story is what Bumblefoot thinks of the music industry is the big story- it's that MusicRadar is giving time to one of 'Axl's hired Guns', and actually quite like him. didn't they right royally slag off CD and New GNR until that 'greatest frontman poll' a few months back?'

[Mysteron]

There is an area of my brain that is pleased to see record labels and records shops fail in this day and age.

The future will be different, and it will be a better place for artists who will be able to deal directly with their customers. There will be alot of free music, with artists making money from live perfomances.

Seeing an artist live is a magical experience. It is something you remember, and I think changes in the future will promote this.

I wish I was younger