Bumblefoot Says Bands Don't Need Labels

[FunkyMonkey]

Guns N? Roses guitarist Ron ?Bumblefoot? Thal delves into technology, consumer demands and distribution and sees the way forward for musicians in an altered future

April 12, 2011

Guns N? Roses guitarist Ron ?Bumblefoot? Thal reckons the balance of power has swung from record labels to artists and there has never been a better time to be a musician and he believes the secret to success lies in offering fans something different.

Thal admits he thinks carefully about the best way to release his own music but he says CD sales have plummeted as technology has advanced. In another RockAAA exclusive Bumblefoot explained:

?I?ve been preaching that gospel since the 90s ? labels can?t survive without bands, but bands can survive without labels, so why would you want to sell your soul to the entity that needs you more than you need it?

?Especially now when anyone can have worldwide distribution. You can do it all as simple as with a Cdbaby.com account and a Facebook page. The internet has levelled the playing field, we?ve all been given the same size gun. The only that separates us now is how well you shoot.

?The album used to be the nucleus, now the parts have shifted ? the music is still important but the personal connection is more central.

?CD sales have declined due to technology mostly, there?s more convenient ways to get your music and faster bandwidth is allowing for better quality. Although nothing beats having something real in your hands, something with printed art, something that opens, something like Led Zep III with the spinning wheel, Sticky Fingers with the zipper, Magical Mystery Tour with the booklet. Now those things come separate from the music, as merch, for those who want them. We have more options today, that?s why CD sales have declined.?

The guitarist says the secret to halting the decline of record sales is just to make better albums.

He continued:

?Make better albums or stop making albums. Maybe just release songs while touring ? release a new song before each leg of a tour and play it during that leg, and every leg will be fresh, with a constant simmer of new music.

?Just thinking out loud . . . some day I?ll be off the stage, bones too brittle and hair too white ? at that point I?ll do my best to help other bands do their thing, and put creative juices towards finding the best ways to get their music to their fans ? give the people what they want.

?When I was making plans to release a song-a-month throughout 2011 I asked, ?What do you want and how do you want it??

?We shared a lot of ideas, I listened. For each song, you have a choice of hi-res formats, plus an instrumental version. For guitar players I made a Player Pack for each song that has a full transcription of the lead guitar parts ? notation, TAB, picking, fingers, a ?backing track? mix to play along to and a ?boosted lead guitar? mix to use as an audio guide with the transcription.

?I made a Producer Pack that has all the mix stems of the song ? 24-bit/48k Stereo WAVs of each part of the song, one of the drums, one of the bass, the rhythm guitar, lead guitar, vocals, backing vocals, whatever?s in the song.

?You load the stems into your multi-track software and play with the mix, make your own, hear each track by itself and hear the nuances of each part that was played and sung? options.

?Bands already have lots of choices ? we?ve already got vinyl, CDs, DVDs, audio files, video files, streaming ? and listeners have more choices ? physical embodiment of the music, downloaded files of music and art and video, streaming services.

?My prediction for what?s next? Independent music-in-the-cloud services, where fans can subscribe and get all your music, art, and whatever else, anywhere, any time, without having to download and own a file. Unless you want to own a file. Or a CD. Options.?

http://www.rockaaa.com/news/ron-thal-sees-the-future-of-music-4558

[Limulus]

some good ideas! come on, Axl 

[HBK]

I D E M

Guns N' Roses Studios & Recording

[bigcash2002]

Ron Thal is fun to listen to

[Mysteron]

The landscape is changing. Recording artists will not need record labels in the same way that authors will not need publishing houses.

I believe it is a good thing because too many people have become rich over the last half a century by exploiting people that have talent.

[D]

well new artists kinda do for the promotion/financial backing at first.

GNR  definitely don't need a record label BUT Axl would have to get out and promote more than he does now which isn't really his style

but think about it, if u are your own label, u would have sell a tiny fraction of what you did on a label to make the same money.

say you get 1 dollar an album, u sell a million to make a million. if u are your own label, sell your cd for 10 bucks, u only have to sell 100k to make a million.

[AxlReznor]

well new artists kinda do for the promotion/financial backing at first.

Ron didn't do so well when he was on a label. It wasn't until he went independent that he began to garner the success that led to him landing a gig in Guns N' Roses.

[One.In.A.Million]

Things are certainly changing in terms of how music can be made, and how people can access your music. 

I think we all sometimes forget how much it has changed, and also in a very short period of time. My initial reaction of this evolution was negative, as I loved the symbolisation of walking into a store and buying a CD. And also, I preffered artists dealing with the art and music, and the record companys sorting out the marketing and distribution.

But in saying all of that, I've really come to love how artists can now have more freedom and in a way "stick it", to record companys. And Ron is right, if you release your music under no label but your own independant vehicle, it's better for the fans and artists alike.

Whatever gives musicians, more freedom to do what they want. Rather than taking orders, and leaving their product in the hands of money hungry fat cats, is only a good thing in my opinion. 

[FunkyMonkey]

some good ideas!

Yeah, I like this one.

Maybe just release songs while touring ? release a new song before each leg of a tour and play it during that leg, and every leg will be fresh, with a constant simmer of new music.

[Jdog0830]

Bumblefoot has the right idea. Anyone can make a name for themselves now just need to get out there if anything people like Buckethead are perfect examples of that.

[norway]

Bumblefoot has the right idea. Anyone can make a name for themselves now just need to get out there if anything people like Buckethead are perfect examples of that.

In all fairness, they can help with money tho, but yeah....get out there!

[Halo69]

Don't agree! They need labels because they're the ones organizing the promotions and cd pressings and all that. Artists need that.

If you're a small but great band which isn't well known all over the world, you're gonna need a label to promote you and you're gonna need all their organization as well to make it happen!

Of course if you are a well established band known all over the world then thats different, because everyone knows you already...

I think Bumblefoot got a little bit carried away on this interview... even he knows that that's not true... Itunes or facebook don't work for everybody Bumble...

For new bands it certainly doesn't work on most cases... i think Bumblefoot just wanted to give the classic "rock n roll answer", fuck the labels we can make it on your own.. its not exactly like this at all.

Record labels is what keeps these bands alive for years and years, they do get their own share and most of the times is not a fair share, but if it wasn't for the labels most bands wouldn't survive the test of time and all of that generates money in the end! Labels are also the ones who put the bands on the map! So they do need their help! It doesn't mean they're gonna stay with them forever, but they do need their help to get famous and get established in the business.
Especially in the 80s... most band members were junkies and didnt have any kind of sense for the business so obviously they needed a hand... thats the whole point of the "bar circuit"... to have the word spread and get signed by a record label!

There's certain musicians that are able to promote themselves... but they sell like what... 200 copies... 300... if they had a label they would sell 3,000 copies or more... it doesn't mean its exactly those numbers, its just an example...

Barely anyone knew about Bumblefoot before he got in GNR... and GNR is in a label! Of course 1 out of 10 knew who Bumblefoot was... but most people didn't...same with Buckethead same with other artists... they would sell much more in a label and would be much more on the map with the label! Why do you think Axl told us that he was trying to help buckethead to get a label contract for his solo records when he was in GNR??...and why do u think Buckethead wanted it?...

I think Bumblefoot is just kinda frustrated and was venting because of all the shit that they got from the label with GNR...but whats happening with GNR is just a specific case! We see all the other bands releasing albums and touring...

[jarmo]

Are you a musician? Are you in the music business?

I'm curious.






/jarmo

[Halo69]

Are you a musician? Are you in the music business?

I'm curious.






/jarmo

Are you?
I don't need to be in the music industry to have knowledge of what's obvious.

Do you think new bands do the whole bar circuit only for fun? Don't you think they have goals of getting signed with a record label that can promote them so they can get famous and rich as well? its pretty obvious...
At the end of the day its a job... the more money you get the better...

I stand by my opinion  

[AxlReznor]

Most decent musicians aren't interested in the fame and money. Most of them are just happy to be able to earn enough in music to be able to survive, and if they become rich and famous... well that's just a bonus.

Bumblefoot is the perfect example of that. You think he'd have such a long career in music if he wasn't making enough money from it? No! He wouldn't be able to - the teaching job was all part of being a musician to him.
And the thing is, like I said before, when he was on a record label, he went absolutely nowhere. Once he went independent, he gained a pretty large following, landed some cool TV and videogame contracts, and managed to maintain a successful career and tour around the world, all culminating in him being handpicked by Axl Rose to be lead guitarist in one of the biggest rock bands in the world.

There are tons of musicians who manage to get by without record labels. Just because most of us haven't heard of them, doesn't mean they don't exist. And with the internet, all it takes is a search for people to be able to hear their music... they can get themselves a fanbase all over the world quicker than any record label is able to market it.

Now here's a common thing that most record labels do. They sign a band. Then they do nothing with them. The band thinks they're about to get their one big break, but the entire reason for them being signed is because they have someone similar on their label and they didn't want someone else to sign this band and be competition for them. So the band is trying to get a record made, and the label just doesn't do anything.
Or... the band do manage to get a record made and released, and first week sales aren't good enough, so the label then pulls funding out from under them. No more advertising. No more tour.

If the label doesn't know how to market you, you're not going to have impressive sales. So you're going to get dropped just like that. So the only bands that they bother with are the ones that are easily pigeon-holed into a particular group of bands that have been selling well recently... currently emo, before that pop-punk, before that nu-metal, before that grunge, etc. etc. The labels just run a particular sound into the ground until they've completely saturated the market and it's not selling any more and then they move onto the next thing. If you're very lucky you could be one of the few bands that make it through that cull like Korn, Deftones, Blink-182, Pearl Jam, etc. But more often than not you're a Limp Bizkit, (hed) Planet Earth, Sum 41 or Candelbox left by the wayside.

The moral of the story? It might mean a lot of extra work. You may not be able to get your 15 minutes of everyone on earth knowing who you are. But if you are a decent musician who would rather have a steady income, be able to be in control of which direction you go in artistically, be in control of your own fate and all of that other stuff, then you don't need a label. If you think you're in that group that's currently making it big, then you might be better off with a label... or then again they might just sit on you and do nothing until nobody cares any more anyway. Whether it's worth that risk depends entirely on how much you want the fame and fortune. And even if you do become successful, you'll find out that currently the fortune is a lot further away than you thought. You'd probably be better off if you just self-released everything. At least then whatever money you made would go to you and you alone.

There was a time when artists needed labels. Before the internet, way back in the days where promotion really did need to be handled by someone else. Back in the days when labels would still fund tours for you. Back in the days when there was a chance that you could actually make some money on a major label. But those days are gone.

Bumblefoot expands on his thoughts here...

http://tinyurl.com/66en9oo

[norway]

Bumble doesn't need a label at least.

[Halo69]

Bumblefoot is a whole different story, his solo career jumped when he joined Guns N'Roses, thats why he's able to do what he does... otherwise he would need a label...its common sense... you go to a huge rock n roll band, people wanna check out in which bands u worked in the past or what your solo music sounds like.


Same thing with Izzy... Izzy was in GNR and thats why he's able to have his solo career right now... sure he has a lot of talent, bumblefoot has it as well... and of course both of them have a cult of followers who probably dont even care about GNR, BUT! 90% of their fans come from the fact that they played/are playing with a huge band like GNR.

There's a lot of bands with lots of talent too, who are waiting for that label contract which will give them freedom for their own evolution...

Its a give and take business just like any business in the World.... a band isn't what you just see on stage.... its a bunch of people who make it happen... from the guy that handles the transportation to the guy that is on the record label in the desk dealing with all the legal issues, promotion, distribution etc etc etc.

Itunes and Facebook are great for artists that are already established don't get me wrong... but its definitely not something that will make an artist! A label does make you an artist! If its a good label of course... like Geffen etc...
And even for the established ones, they hardly keep the same income they had when they were in a label.

If you guys think Artists can just make it on their own without any labels involvement, than answer this:

After all the problems Axl had with the record company he's in, after all the problems with management, after all the problems with producers, after all the problems he had with art being censored etc etc, why didn't Axl pursue the digital way of doing things and auto promote himself and GNR??

He's an established artist in an established band, and he still didn't do it! WHY???

Because he would be selling around 20,000 copies instead of 5 million, because he would make 2 or 3 million dollars with touring other then 80 millions which is usually close to what he and the band produce.

Because he wouldn't have a best buy or wallmart ad, and he wouldn't have Dr.Pepper running around crazy for GNR's album to come out...he wouldn't have half the endorsements he has to travel, he wouldn't have his private confortable plane to travel etc etc etc....

He surely wouldn't have money to promote TV ads for their album as well...

And all of this considering he is an established artist with an established band.... now imagine a completely new band who is trying to grow a fanbase....


And ok.... i know what answers will come next... well the promotion didnt work with dr.pepper or best buy or whatever.... sure it didnt work, thats a whole new story though. Like i said before, GNR's situation is a very specific case, due to the problems Axl is having with management. You can't generalize!

Artists need labels, labels need artists, the music industry needs both!

Don't get me wrong, most labels rip off artists till their guts and obviously thats fucked up, but hey... so are you and me being ripped off everyday by the IRS etc...Its the way life works...

I rest my case

[AxlReznor]

Did you read what I said at all. He didn't need a label before he joined Guns N' Roses! He hasn't had a label since Hermit came out, and he achieved a lot more after that than he ever did before! It isn't Guns N' Roses alone that made him able to do things the way he does! He's been doing it since 1998!

Also, Axl was practically stuck with the label, because of a little something called a contract. Trying to get out of the contract would have taken years and delayed things even further.

[Halo69]

Did you read what I said at all. He didn't need a label before he joined Guns N' Roses! He hasn't had a label since Hermit came out, and he achieved a lot more after that than he ever did before! It isn't Guns N' Roses alone that made him able to do things the way he does! He's been doing it since 1998!

Also, Axl was practically stuck with the label, because of a little something called a contract. Trying to get out of the contract would have taken years and delayed things even further.

Thats your opinion, not mine. I stand by my opinion. It depends on what you think is "achievement". If you believe on what you're saying its fine by me. I don't agree.

The fact is he wasn't that well known before he joined GNR. 90% of his fans are GNR fans. That doesn't mean he didnt have his little cult of followers before he joined GNR though. And with this im not saying that his music is crappy or anything of that kind.

[AxlReznor]

So you think that Bumblefoot doing things the way he has been since 1998, and that GN'R being contracted to Geffen is my opinion? Someone has to show you the difference between opinion and indisputable fact.