Chinese Democracy is $1.99 at Best Buy

[Eclipsed107]

Oh, the name discussion again.

Somebody chose to walk away and quit. Axl didn't let that end GN'R. Thank God!



/jarmo

whether the band was called Guns n' Roses or not the album would have sounded the same, so I don't see how it's "thank god".  The product wouldn't have been any different, neither would the show.

all I said was I wonder if it would affect the sales of the album because it'd give potential buyers a different perspective.  Axl could have called his band meat and potatoes and it wouldn't make a difference.  Guns n' Roses is just a name at this point.  Axl has proven that by replacing the replacements replacements.

I don't think you realise just how much Guns N' Roses means to people all over the world. That's why I thank Axl for saving GN'R and carrying on when everyone else abanded GN'R. For some people Guns N' Roses are their life, and it's more than just a name. 

Think about the millions of people who have GN'R tattoos, travel all around the world to see GN'R and who have loved Guns N' Roses from the start to this present day.

Guns N' Roses is a way of life, and even Axl said in his online chats, that he felt like he had a responsibility to the fans to keep GN'R alive.

And I also thank Axl, because GN'R are my life. 

To a lot of people though Gn'R was Slash, Duff, Izzy and Axl and those same people have Gn'R tattoos and wear the t-shirts and travel to see the band.

You're right, Gn'R is a way of life for a lot of people but a lot of those people don't accept Axl's reincarnation of the band. 

I mean their greatest hits cd spent 138 weeks in the billboard before it dropped off then reentered at 132.  Chinese Democracy spent (I think) 19 weeks on the billboard and had to be lowered to less than 2 dollars to reenter, at 198. 

Personally, I could care less what Axl calls it, I'm just happy he finally released it.

I just wonder if CD would have been more successful if he released it under his own name, then maybe a lot of those people who have the tattoos and wear those t-shirts but have yet to buy into Axl's new version of the band would have picked up a copy.

Hell even Slash's solo cd charted for 14 weeks, just a month shy of what Chinese Democracy charted.

One thing's for sure, if he didn't call it Guns n' Roses it wouldn't have had the expectations that it did going in, and I don't think people would consider it a commercial failure.  Gn'R is a way of life like you said, but a lot of people don't accept big changes in their lives, and a lot of Gn'R fans didn't accept this change resulting in lower than expected sales and clearance sales.

[reayj2003]

Eclipsed 107, you are talking crap.

"I mean their greatest hits cd spent 138 weeks in the billboard before it dropped off then reentered at 132.  Chinese Democracy spent (I think) 19 weeks on the billboard and had to be lowered to less than 2 dollars to reenter, at 198"

Let's look at Bon Jovi, who I don't like, but were the biggest touring act of last year! Their last Album sold 163,000 copies in its first week in US (same as CD) and has sold 3 million copies worldwide. Are these sales a true indication of the bands popularity? No.

I just wonder if CD would have been more successful if he released it under his own name, then maybe a lot of those people who have the tattoos and wear those t-shirts but have yet to buy into Axl's new version of the band would have picked up a copy.

Not the case. Taking Bon Jovi again you have a band with a constant line-up and still there Album sales are low, in comparison to the past. Their greatest hits album however is doing very well.
Guns N'Roses current line up play to packed areanas all over the globe- That show's an acceptence of this band! GN'R finished the year a respectable 29th of top grossing touring acts (and I think I'm right in saying that does not take into account the Aus & Middle East dates)....This is more of a test of popularity. If you consider the sporadic nature of the tour it's very good going. Now why a US tour is not taking place, nobody knows. But that sure would help a little re-boost of CD sales.

Hell even Slash's solo cd charted for 14 weeks, just a month shy of what Chinese Democracy charted.

I love this album but it sold 61,000 in it's opening week.. A big difference. And internationaly it was not even close to the sales of CD, in the UK for example it only reached number 17- whereas GN'R scorred a number 2 behind the Killers who are one of the UK's favourite bands. If the original line-up and slash is what the masses want why don't they buy this album??

I asked what CHINESE DEMOCRACY has roughly sold worldwide, which I think started this negative shit. Last year was a great one for GN'R...I think, as was stated in an article about GN'R in NME the week before Reading Festival, that CD is a slow burner! But it is selling. According to Universal Music it had sold 2.6 million units worldwide as of February 2009. Well that's 2 years ago and they have toured the globe since then...So where we at now?

All the negative shit about sales comes from Billboard performace! Compare Kayne West's 808s & Heartbreak worlwide success with CD's- It get's it's ass kicked.

[reayj2003]

Also, especially in Europe the recent great sales of GN'R greatest hits and Appetite etc is due in no small way to the touring efforts of the Current line up! If you love GN'R there is nothing to fucking moan about! In the last year I've seen the current line up 4 times, seen Adlers Appetite 2 times and Slash once with more dates coming this summer. This week I've been rocking out to Loaded's new album. The music is there people....

[willow]

Wrong! I'm a GN'R fan. I stuck with GN'R through everything. 

I assume you didn't? What does that make you? A fan of the past? I fan desperately clinging onto some dream of the glorious past?

My GN'R shirts don't say "Axl Rose" on them. Even the ones I got last year (2010) They say Guns N' Roses.

It's a band! Yes, with Axl in it! But there's also others in the band. Something which some can't seem to comprehend.


I don't have conditions on when they need to do things or who should be in the band etc.

I trust that the one guy who has been in the band since day one knows way better than some anonymous Internet keyboard warriors who are desperately trying to be popular.


If I didn't like the band, I would find something else I liked. Instead of spending time on fan forums, using multiple usernames, spewing my hatred against something I have very little control over.

Seems like some of you have spent more years hating the band then you spent as actual fans. Ironic.

But that's just me! I know we're all different.

 



/jarmo

I have to steal this Jarmo. I second that!

[oktayaxl]

ı think chinese democracy worldwide sales are major success..only in usa is below expactations and ı think it's because of bestbuy.Also Chinese Democracy debuted at
number three on the US Billboard 200 chart, selling 261,000 copies in its first week, more than nearly 100K of Bon Jovi's last album.

The album also reached triple platinum certification in Canada, as well as platinum certifications in many other countries, including Finland, Czech Republic, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Norway, Poland, Romania, Switzerland, the United Kingdom, Argentina,Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa. It was certified gold in Austria, Belgium, Denmark, France, Greece, Hungary, the Netherlands, Sweden, Indonesia, Japan, Malaysia, Singapore, Taiwan, Thailand, Brazil, and Colombia.

Chinese Democracy secured an IFPI European Platinum Award, having sold more than one million copies in Europe.And ıt was before the world tour.As 2011 It has sold at least 1.400.000 copies all throuhg the europe ı guess...So when you do the math


USA-BESTBUY  :     1.6  Million   - 630K(the copies that has sold in USA) + 970 K (BESTBUY bought 1.6 million copies)
EUROPE          :     1.4  Million
Canada           :     240 K          - Triple platinium in Canada
japan              :     200K
Australia         :     100K

When you add the south America,Asia and the rest of the world sales. It has sold between 4-5 million copies worldwide.When you look at the other artist's last album's sales,You'll see that Chinese democracy has sold very well.

Guns N Roses     Chinese Democracy        4-5M
Velvet revolver - libertad                           800K
Iron Maiden     -  Final Frontier                  1M
U2                       No line on the horizon    4M
Bon Jovi              Circle                               3M
Ac/Dc                   Black Ice                         7M
Metallica              Death Magnetic              4,5M
Killers                  Day and Age                   3M

[wight gunner]

ı think chinese democracy worldwide sales are major success..only in usa is below expactations and ı think it's because of bestbuy.Also Chinese Democracy debuted at
number three on the US Billboard 200 chart, selling 261,000 copies in its first week, more than nearly 100K of Bon Jovi's last album.

The album also reached triple platinum certification in Canada, as well as platinum certifications in many other countries, including Finland, Czech Republic, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Norway, Poland, Romania, Switzerland, the United Kingdom, Argentina,Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa. It was certified gold in Austria, Belgium, Denmark, France, Greece, Hungary, the Netherlands, Sweden, Indonesia, Japan, Malaysia, Singapore, Taiwan, Thailand, Brazil, and Colombia.

Chinese Democracy secured an IFPI European Platinum Award, having sold more than one million copies in Europe.And ıt was before the world tour.As 2011 It has sold at least 1.400.000 copies all throuhg the europe ı guess...So when you do the math


USA-BESTBUY  :     1.6  Million   - 630K(the copies that has sold in USA) + 970 K (BESTBUY bought 1.6 million copies)
EUROPE          :     1.4  Million
Canada           :     240 K          - Triple platinium in Canada
japan              :     200K
Australia         :     100K

When you add the south America,Asia and the rest of the world sales. It has sold between 4-5 million copies worldwide.When you look at the other artist's last album's sales,You'll see that Chinese democracy has sold very well.

Guns N Roses     Chinese Democracy        4-5M
Velvet revolver - libertad                           800K
Iron Maiden     -  Final Frontier                  1M
U2                       No line on the horizon    4M
Bon Jovi              Circle                               3M
Ac/Dc                   Black Ice                         7M
Metallica              Death Magnetic              4,5M
Killers                  Day and Age                   3M

Quality first post...   At last some perspective 

[D]

ı think chinese democracy worldwide sales are major success..only in usa is below expactations and ı think it's because of bestbuy.Also Chinese Democracy debuted at
number three on the US Billboard 200 chart, selling 261,000 copies in its first week, more than nearly 100K of Bon Jovi's last album.

The album also reached triple platinum certification in Canada, as well as platinum certifications in many other countries, including Finland, Czech Republic, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Norway, Poland, Romania, Switzerland, the United Kingdom, Argentina,Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa. It was certified gold in Austria, Belgium, Denmark, France, Greece, Hungary, the Netherlands, Sweden, Indonesia, Japan, Malaysia, Singapore, Taiwan, Thailand, Brazil, and Colombia.

Chinese Democracy secured an IFPI European Platinum Award, having sold more than one million copies in Europe.And ıt was before the world tour.As 2011 It has sold at least 1.400.000 copies all throuhg the europe ı guess...So when you do the math


USA-BESTBUY  :     1.6  Million   - 630K(the copies that has sold in USA) + 970 K (BESTBUY bought 1.6 million copies)
EUROPE          :     1.4  Million
Canada           :     240 K          - Triple platinium in Canada
japan              :     200K
Australia         :     100K

When you add the south America,Asia and the rest of the world sales. It has sold between 4-5 million copies worldwide.When you look at the other artist's last album's sales,You'll see that Chinese democracy has sold very well.

Guns N Roses     Chinese Democracy        4-5M
Velvet revolver - libertad                           800K
Iron Maiden     -  Final Frontier                  1M
U2                       No line on the horizon    4M
Bon Jovi              Circle                               3M
Ac/Dc                   Black Ice                         7M
Metallica              Death Magnetic              4,5M
Killers                  Day and Age                   3M

Excellent!

Where did u find those numbers at? I am always trying to find album sales like this and haven't had any luck.

[Eclipsed107]

Eclipsed 107, you are talking crap.

"I mean their greatest hits cd spent 138 weeks in the billboard before it dropped off then reentered at 132.  Chinese Democracy spent (I think) 19 weeks on the billboard and had to be lowered to less than 2 dollars to reenter, at 198"

Let's look at Bon Jovi, who I don't like, but were the biggest touring act of last year! Their last Album sold 163,000 copies in its first week in US (same as CD) and has sold 3 million copies worldwide. Are these sales a true indication of the bands popularity? No.

I just wonder if CD would have been more successful if he released it under his own name, then maybe a lot of those people who have the tattoos and wear those t-shirts but have yet to buy into Axl's new version of the band would have picked up a copy.

Not the case. Taking Bon Jovi again you have a band with a constant line-up and still there Album sales are low, in comparison to the past. Their greatest hits album however is doing very well.
Guns N'Roses current line up play to packed areanas all over the globe- That show's an acceptence of this band! GN'R finished the year a respectable 29th of top grossing touring acts (and I think I'm right in saying that does not take into account the Aus & Middle East dates)....This is more of a test of popularity. If you consider the sporadic nature of the tour it's very good going. Now why a US tour is not taking place, nobody knows. But that sure would help a little re-boost of CD sales.

Hell even Slash's solo cd charted for 14 weeks, just a month shy of what Chinese Democracy charted.

I love this album but it sold 61,000 in it's opening week.. A big difference. And internationaly it was not even close to the sales of CD, in the UK for example it only reached number 17- whereas GN'R scorred a number 2 behind the Killers who are one of the UK's favourite bands. If the original line-up and slash is what the masses want why don't they buy this album??

I asked what CHINESE DEMOCRACY has roughly sold worldwide, which I think started this negative shit. Last year was a great one for GN'R...I think, as was stated in an article about GN'R in NME the week before Reading Festival, that CD is a slow burner! But it is selling. According to Universal Music it had sold 2.6 million units worldwide as of February 2009. Well that's 2 years ago and they have toured the globe since then...So where we at now?

All the negative shit about sales comes from Billboard performace! Compare Kayne West's 808s & Heartbreak worlwide success with CD's- It get's it's ass kicked.

What are you talking about reayj2003, I don't understand how referencing Bon Jovi's the circle or Kayne West's 808 Heartbreak is relevant to my question, would Axl have sold more copies of CD if he used the name Axl Rose instead of Guns n' Roses... especially when you referenced two albums that outsold Chinese Democracy in America. 

I think Oktayaxl makes a wonderful point, worldwide Chinese Democracy has been mostly successful.. so have the band's tours. 

Altho in America the results have been different.  My question is would CD and the band have been more sucuessful if it had been released as an Axl Rose solo album rather than a Gn'R album.

Telling me that Kayne and Bon Jovi have outsold CD in America but not around the world isn't relevant whatsoever to that question.

I just think if it were called Axl Rose more people would be willing to give it a listen and it would have sold more.  There are other factors which I mentioned in one of my previous posts such as Best Buy, the lack of a special edition and the lack of an American tour to support the album.  Axl has done virtually nothing to promote CD in America and that's a big reason why in America it's considered a commercial failure, that and a lot of people aren't willing to buy into Guns n' Roses without Slash, Duff and Izzy.

Not sure what Kanye or Bon Jovi has to do with that but ok!

[jarmo]

Assumptions.


If it was released under Axl's name, which would be weird since it's a band effort, how can you assume that all the ones you claim would "give it a chance" would even care since it's not a GN'R album?

Or they would've probably said "this should've been released under the GN'R name! It's that great!". Right?


You're talking about the same kind of people who spent years saying "all we want is an album", even while the band was on tour.

Then once the album was released, it took about a week and these same ones were saying "all we want is an tour".

Well, the tour starts and it was quickly changed to "all we want is an US tour".

When that didn't materialize, they would "discuss" the setlist... When they got bored of that, it's about how "everything was better in (insert random year that first their agenda)".



Nothing changes with some of these people. Don't fool yourselves.



/jarmo

[oktayaxl]

In my opinion If chinese democracy released under Axl Rose name..ıt didn't sell ..not even 1M....It has sold strong worlwide because of the GNR name.

[Axlspants]

Who fucking cares? It is what it is. Whilst you lot bicker about something that none of you can change, I'm going to listen to Chinese Democracy, an amazing album regardless of who recorded it, what they called themselves, how it was promoted or how many copies it sold.

Enjoy the fuckin music!

[richwoman]

Who fucking cares? It is what it is. Whilst you lot bicker about something that none of you can change, I'm going to listen to Chinese Democracy, an amazing album regardless of who recorded it, what they called themselves, how it was promoted or how many copies it sold.

Enjoy the fuckin music!

completely agree 

[reayj2003]

Eclipsed 107, you are talking crap.

"I mean their greatest hits cd spent 138 weeks in the billboard before it dropped off then reentered at 132.  Chinese Democracy spent (I think) 19 weeks on the billboard and had to be lowered to less than 2 dollars to reenter, at 198"

Let's look at Bon Jovi, who I don't like, but were the biggest touring act of last year! Their last Album sold 163,000 copies in its first week in US (same as CD) and has sold 3 million copies worldwide. Are these sales a true indication of the bands popularity? No.

I just wonder if CD would have been more successful if he released it under his own name, then maybe a lot of those people who have the tattoos and wear those t-shirts but have yet to buy into Axl's new version of the band would have picked up a copy.

Not the case. Taking Bon Jovi again you have a band with a constant line-up and still there Album sales are low, in comparison to the past. Their greatest hits album however is doing very well.
Guns N'Roses current line up play to packed areanas all over the globe- That show's an acceptence of this band! GN'R finished the year a respectable 29th of top grossing touring acts (and I think I'm right in saying that does not take into account the Aus & Middle East dates)....This is more of a test of popularity. If you consider the sporadic nature of the tour it's very good going. Now why a US tour is not taking place, nobody knows. But that sure would help a little re-boost of CD sales.

Hell even Slash's solo cd charted for 14 weeks, just a month shy of what Chinese Democracy charted.

I love this album but it sold 61,000 in it's opening week.. A big difference. And internationaly it was not even close to the sales of CD, in the UK for example it only reached number 17- whereas GN'R scorred a number 2 behind the Killers who are one of the UK's favourite bands. If the original line-up and slash is what the masses want why don't they buy this album??

I asked what CHINESE DEMOCRACY has roughly sold worldwide, which I think started this negative shit. Last year was a great one for GN'R...I think, as was stated in an article about GN'R in NME the week before Reading Festival, that CD is a slow burner! But it is selling. According to Universal Music it had sold 2.6 million units worldwide as of February 2009. Well that's 2 years ago and they have toured the globe since then...So where we at now?

All the negative shit about sales comes from Billboard performace! Compare Kayne West's 808s & Heartbreak worlwide success with CD's- It get's it's ass kicked.

What are you talking about reayj2003, I don't understand how referencing Bon Jovi's the circle or Kayne West's 808 Heartbreak is relevant to my question, would Axl have sold more copies of CD if he used the name Axl Rose instead of Guns n' Roses... especially when you referenced two albums that outsold Chinese Democracy in America. 

I think Oktayaxl makes a wonderful point, worldwide Chinese Democracy has been mostly successful.. so have the band's tours. 

Altho in America the results have been different.  My question is would CD and the band have been more sucuessful if it had been released as an Axl Rose solo album rather than a Gn'R album.

Telling me that Kayne and Bon Jovi have outsold CD in America but not around the world isn't relevant whatsoever to that question.

I just think if it were called Axl Rose more people would be willing to give it a listen and it would have sold more.  There are other factors which I mentioned in one of my previous posts such as Best Buy, the lack of a special edition and the lack of an American tour to support the album.  Axl has done virtually nothing to promote CD in America and that's a big reason why in America it's considered a commercial failure, that and a lot of people aren't willing to buy into Guns n' Roses without Slash, Duff and Izzy.

Not sure what Kanye or Bon Jovi has to do with that but ok!

I'm answering your question with facts... Would Axl have sold more copies if it were billed as a solo album? I think NO. Why? because as a worldwide brand Guns N'Roses is still a big league player. This is evident by the millions of facebook followers and the people who buy tickets to there shows. I mean why would festivals like Reading, Leeds & 'Rock in Rio 2011' be booking them if the general attitude was 'this is not GN'R'..

The reason I'm comparing sales of GN'R's latest album to that of Bon Jovi's album is to show that this album, in today's Rock album market sold pretty well. You can't judge it on 'Use Your Illusion' sales as it is a completely different market now- but you can judge it on current trends.
In my opinion Axl using the 'Guns N'Roses' name is critical to the coomercial success of his band.

If your question is would it have made a difference in the US? I don't know I'm from the UK. But it does not matter where the album sells as long as it does sell.

Again SLASH has a great solo album but it only sold 61,000 in it's first week. And internationaly it was not even close to the sales of CD, in the UK for example it only reached number 17. GUNS N'ROSES (The Brand) sells tickets & albums....

AND I BELIEVE THIS IS GUNS N'ROSES AND I LOVE THEM, AS DOES THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE WHO POST HERE SO TAKE YOUR SMALL MINDED ATTITUDE TO THE WORLD AND LOOK AT AN ATLAS (shrugged) AS IT'S A BIG ASS PLACE!

[Albert S Miller]

I for one have never cared about the politics of the band, sure they can be interesting and they at times have been more than controversial, it is a part of the excitement, the unknown the never know what your gonna get mysterious Axl we all know and love, so what ever avenues he has  taken to keep this band alive,  I am eternally grateful in so many ways.  If you are indeed a true fan, nothing else matters except the music he brings to our ears, CD is such a great display of his talents, and it has truely touched myself and many others in so many ways.  Thank You Axl Rose

[LongGoneDay]

It's playing make believe, and doesn't matter, but...
Do I think the album would have been generally more accepted if billed as another name? Yes, absolutely I do.
Putting it out under another name would have eliminated most, if not all of the negative press that has been written about it.
Do I think it would have sold as well? That I'm not so sure of. You can slap the name Guns N' Roses on a box of cereal and it's going to sell.
Not having that established name means they have to start from the ground up. Having Axl Rose as your frontman is not a bad start, but the GNR moniker affords the luxury's they otherwise wouldn't have.

If the GNR name had been retired, fans would obviously be disappointed that the band they loved was over, but probably view Axl's new project as the next best thing, and something they could get behind as opposed to a new band billed as GNR. A lot of people view that as disingenuous, wether you agree or not. That alone makes it easy for some fans of the classic lineup to dismiss the current.

You can call that negative, closed minded, stubborn or anything you'd like, but in the end it's reality.

The petty and ridiculous Slash vs Axl fan war, and divide of the fan base most likely wouldn't exist, at least not to such a high degree.

You can look at Velvet Revolver as a reference point. They sold well, and a lot of that had to do with interest built from their time spent in GNR, and a lot had to do with people liking what they were hearing. Even though they were 3/5 of GNR, no one could knock them for not sounding like it. For better or worse, they were Velvet Revolver.

I can see where both sides of the argument are coming from. It's certainly a tired argument, and one that will never be resolved.
To me, it may not be the most interesting, but it's a discussion, and nothing more.
Obviously the majority of fans on this site view it as a negative, are defensive about the decisions Axl has made, and that's fine.
Neither side is ever going to convince the other. They are both opinions and should be accepted as such.

I'd love to hear some new material.
I'd probably sacrifice a limb or two to hear Axl sing more Use Your Illusion era material live. Even so, I've never felt anything resembling disappointment at a GNR concert.
You probably won't catch me "bitching" about release dates, set lists, tour dates etc, but at least it shows that people still care.
A lot of fans stopped a long time ago.

[LongGoneDay]

Another question might be, does Axl give a shit if it's "accepted"?

[jarmo]

Please, we all know the name doesn't really matter that much. It's an excuse for all the so called real fans who blame Axl for breaking up the band and who want nothing more than for him to fail.

They don't want him to be successful.

That's what it boils down to.

Of course they would've been happy if Axl had let GN'R die. It's like a victory for them.



All this has very little to do with the album though. It's all fucking Dead Horse material.

Soon you can celebrate the 15 year anniversary of the name discussion!




/jarmo

[LongGoneDay]

Please, we all know the name doesn't really matter that much. It's an excuse for all the so called real fans who blame Axl for breaking up the band and who want nothing more than for him to fail.

They don't want him to be successful.

That's what it boils down to.

Of course they would've been happy if Axl had let GN'R die. It's like a victory for them.



All this has very little to do with the album though. It's all fucking Dead Horse material.

Soon you can celebrate the 15 year anniversary of the name discussion!




/jarmo

I think you're taking the conspiracy theory a little far, there. Maybe listening to "out to get me" too regularly. Just kidding, can never listen to that song enough, but I don't see people rooting against Axl, aside from maybe the media, which shouldn't be confused as a voice of the fans.

I think Axl lost those fans interest altogether. They simply don't care anymore. They aren't at home with Axl Rose voodoo dolls. For the most part they lost interest with all of the alumni, not just Axl.
At least that's what I see/hear from people I know. To them Guns N' Roses did die, but no one's wasting any time or effort pointing fingers at who was responsible.

[jarmo]

I don't really care much about conspiracy theories, I don't look for hidden meanings in everything.

I've seen and read enough through the years to know that some have a weird definition of "fan" and "support".

Nothing to do with voodoo dolls and such. You can try to ridicule it all you want, but you can't deny that there's a lot of sad negative people out there who spend their own time spewing a lot of negative shit. I guess just to make themselves feel more important and/or better.

I lost count on how many times I've seen some of them claim "I want Axl/GN'R to succeed BUT...." it always comes with their demands.



/jarmo

[Halo69]

I honestly prefer GNR the way it is now than for it to die. Even though im mainly a fan of the old band.

I accept the new band. Hey... at least we're getting tours and music!