2011 Baseball Season/Off-Season Discussion

[GeorgeSteele]

You know, I never liked Reyes...   

The word is that the Wilpons were capping their offer at 5 yrs, $80M.  Which I suppose makes sense, but then how is a team ever supposed to get good if it ignores the realities of the market when it comes to re-signing its home-grown stars?  He would have stayed for a discount, but not to the point of $26M fucking dollars.  To add insult to injury from the indignity of being outbid by the 'Miami' Fucking Marlins, the Mets only get a 3rd round pick as comp instead of a 1st. 

And why wasn't he traded if they weren't going to make a competitive offer?

I've weathered some bad stretches with this team, but now we're looking at at least another 2 years or so of crap. 

[AxlsMainMan]

Is there a baseball team desperate enough to hire Manny Ramirez? We'll soon find out. Ramirez is reportedly applying for reinstatement, after running away from the game when he was suspended 100 games for a second positive drug test in April. Apparently, he's become bored with PlayStation and is disenchanted with retirement. Reports indicate Ramirez will be required to serve 50 games of his suspension as soon as he joins his next team. He was 1-for-17 for the Rays before bolting with his tail between his legs and he has a history of quitting on his team, so we wonder if any general manager will take a chance on the 39-year-old DH.

http://articles.courant.com/2011-12-04/sports/hc-on-the-fly-1205-20111204_1_tim-tebow-mark-sanchez-uconn-soccer

[tim_m]

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/7317535/albert-pujols-miami-marlins-list-targets

DALLAS -- Now that they've checked Jose Reyes off their to-do list, the Miami Marlins have an even bigger name on their radar screen -- Albert Pujols.

Sources told ESPN.com on Sunday night that the Marlins still plan to make an aggressive run at Pujols, even after committing $106 million to Reyes over the next six years, and plan to meet with Pujols' agent, Dan Lozano, Monday or Tuesday at the winter meetings.

Throughout much of this offseason, Marlins officials have downplayed the possibility that they could afford both Reyes and Pujols. However, one source who spoke with the Marlins' brass said Sunday that Reyes' contract was structured in a way that would enable them to sign one more prominent free agent -- and that Pujols was their No. 1 target.

The source said the Marlins plan to make a major push to sign Pujols over the next two days. The team met with Pujols in Miami before Thanksgiving, just days after a similar session with Reyes, and made the free-agent first baseman a nine-year offer for considerably less than the reported nine-year, $198-million offer from the Cardinals that Pujols turned down last winter.

But just as they increased their original offer to Reyes over the weekend in their attempts to get him signed, the Marlins now will turn their attention to Pujols -- and appear prepared to up their offer to him if they get indications he has sincere interest in coming to Miami.

Lozano is also tentatively scheduled to meet with the Cardinals about Pujols on Monday, sources said.

I hope they sign them both.

Because everyone knows the Marlins are, at this point, trying to fill their new stadium (and get the union off their back for their perpetually anemic payroll).

Then, in 3 or 4 years, they'll dump the long term, expensive contracts and go back to living off the revenue sharing money.  That's what this owner has done since...forever.

And those guys will get traded somewhere.....

As an aside: If the Yanks did this...people would be leading a revolt.

The family needs to be forced to sell the Marlins. They are just a bunch of criminals. They intentionally destroyed the Expos and then destroyed evidence. Then MLB lets them buy the Marlins. WTF?

[D]

LOL @ the Marlins

106 million for Reyes?

Should just light that money on fire.

[pilferk]

The family needs to be forced to sell the Marlins. They are just a bunch of criminals. They intentionally destroyed the Expos and then destroyed evidence. Then MLB lets them buy the Marlins. WTF?

You'll get no argument from me.

The team lives off revenue sharing $$ and luxury tax divies...essentially wellfare...and rides a wave of young talent to success once 5 to 10 years, who they then promptly sell off, drive off, or let go in order to maintain their ridiculously low payroll.  They reap massive profits from revenue sharing, luxury tax dollars, and TV contracts.  They were, not so long ago, the most profitable team in baseball; Not because they had great attendance or had been super successful on the field..but because they simply bilked the system.

Now they have a bright shiny new stadium they want to fill.  So, for 2 or 3 years they'll take on a bigger payroll to do it.  Then, once they get the fans conditioned to come, they'll go right back to mooching the system (unless MLB steps in, or they sell the team, which might ALSO be why they're doing this...to make the team a more attractive buy).

[faldor]

@Jon_Heyman Jon Heyman
hearing #Marlins boosted offer to pujols to 10 years, matching arod's in length. they are obvs pushing hard.


@Jon_Heyman Jon Heyman
#redsox seem pretty confident they'll get ortiz back on 2-yr deal assuming he doesn't take arb

[tim_m]

The family needs to be forced to sell the Marlins. They are just a bunch of criminals. They intentionally destroyed the Expos and then destroyed evidence. Then MLB lets them buy the Marlins. WTF?

You'll get no argument from me.

The team lives off revenue sharing $$ and luxury tax divies...essentially wellfare...and rides a wave of young talent to success once 5 to 10 years, who they then promptly sell off, drive off, or let go in order to maintain their ridiculously low payroll.  They reap massive profits from revenue sharing, luxury tax dollars, and TV contracts.  They were, not so long ago, the most profitable team in baseball; Not because they had great attendance or had been super successful on the field..but because they simply bilked the system.

Now they have a bright shiny new stadium they want to fill.  So, for 2 or 3 years they'll take on a bigger payroll to do it.  Then, once they get the fans conditioned to come, they'll go right back to mooching the system (unless MLB steps in, or they sell the team, which might ALSO be why they're doing this...to make the team a more attractive buy).

If i remember correctly after the Expos folded and moved MLB investigated the Loria family. Then not long after let them have the Marlins? Perhaps the new labor deal will make them spend more. Since now its required you spend the luxury tax money on payroll and have to prove it.

[pilferk]

If i remember correctly after the Expos folded and moved MLB investigated the Loria family. Then not long after let them have the Marlins? Perhaps the new labor deal will make them spend more. Since now its required you spend the luxury tax money on payroll and have to prove it.

I hope so.

The thing is...it's all a shell game.  You show that you used the luxury tax money on "payroll" (so you have to spend at least your share of that), but you shuffle the money you've BEEN spending on payroll into your pockets. 

These guys got slapped down by MLB and the union, RECENTLY, because of stuff like that. 

Again, until they prove they're willing to actually PAY these players, long term (and not just sign long term contracts to aid a short term goal), I'm skeptical.

Say what you want about our Yanks...they RARELY off load that big contract to someone else.

[faldor]

It's looking like the Cardinals are gaining ground on the Marlins for Pujols.  General consensus is that he'll stay put, as Miami didn't offer that much more than St. Louis.  I figured he'd stay when this whole thing started, but Miami gave it a good effort.  Not sure what the Cubs offered him, but they REALLY would've had to have blown him away to snatch him away from their rival.  Never saw that as a real possibility.

If Miami does lose out on Albert they will apparently shift their focus to Prince Fielder, possibly CJ Wilson, Buehrle as well.
They won't go quietly.  Guess they're determined to win their 3rd WS and then blow up the team again. 

Red Sox are talking to the A's about trying to acquire closer Andrew Bailey.  Doesn't sound like he would cost TOO much, so I'd like it.  We'll see though.  It also sounds like both Daniel Bard and Alfredo Aceves would prefer to be starters.  Well, that would solve one problem and create another one.  The starting rotation would be set with Lester, Beckett, Buccholz, Bard, Aceves.  But the bullpen would lose their top 3 guys from last season and consist of Jenks, Morales, Wheeler, Doubront?, Miller?, Wakefield?, Bailey?.  Not exactly a strength, especially if they don't get Bailey.

One more closer off the market.  Huston Street traded to the Padres.  Options getting thin.

[D]

10 yrs for Pujols?

Dumber than Yanks giving A Rod that contract.

[tim_m]

Buehrle to the Marlins 4 years 58 million. CJ Wilson possibly next. Espn is saying its down to the Angels or Marlins.

[COMAMOTIVE]

Buehrle to the Marlins 4 years 58 million. CJ Wilson possibly next. Espn is saying its down to the Angels or Marlins.

Crazy, Crazy, Crazy

Buehrle is a solid innings guy, but far from an ace. Marlins have a business plan now, but in 2 or 3 years this contract will be a laughing-stock

[pilferk]

Pujols to Angels.

Done deal.

He decided this morning.

10 years, around 250 million, full no trade.

News should start breaking on it in the next few minutes...but you're hearing it here, first.

[COMAMOTIVE]

Pujols to Angels.

Done deal.

He decided this morning.

10 years, around 250 million, full no trade.

News should start breaking on it in the next few minutes...but you're hearing it here, first.

Holy crap - This is an A-Rod to the Rangers deal all over again, except A-Rod was younger at the time..and that deal turned out to set the Rangers back many years

Don't blame Angels for making a splash, but 10 years at that $$$ is crazy

[pilferk]

Holy crap - This is an A-Rod to the Rangers deal all over again, except A-Rod was younger at the time..and that deal turned out to set the Rangers back many years

Don't blame Angels for making a splash, but 10 years at that $$$ is crazy

Also pretty sure they locked up Wilson late last night...but haven't heard the terms of that deal yet.  Probably hear more about that, today, too.

They're planning a " '09 Yankees" type presser to introduce them both...but not exactly sure when that will happen.

Edit: Maybe 5 years, 75 million?  Not sure though.

[Falcon]

Wilson is done to the Angels as well.

The elation of the WS victory is over.

Still in shock - next denial, then anger.

I'm not sure if acceptance will ever be reached.

[GeorgeSteele]

The family needs to be forced to sell the Marlins. They are just a bunch of criminals. They intentionally destroyed the Expos and then destroyed evidence. Then MLB lets them buy the Marlins. WTF?

Word is that Reyes' contract is obscenely back-loaded -- 10m, 10m, 16m, 22m 22m 22m and 22m option or 4m buyout. 

So they basically just signed him to a 2 year, 20m contract and then will trade him for a stick of gum... which I guess works out because they gave up practically nothing to get him. 

[GeorgeSteele]

Wilson is done to the Angels as well.

The elation of the WS victory is over.

Still in shock - next denial, then anger.

I'm not sure if acceptance will ever be reached.

It was a great run for you guys though.  Maybe the best 11-year stretch of hitting in modern baseball and 2 WS titles.  Not bad. 

[LunsJail]

Wilson is done to the Angels as well.

The elation of the WS victory is over.

Still in shock - next denial, then anger.

I'm not sure if acceptance will ever be reached.

You should be breathing a sigh of relief that your team didn't get locked up with this contract. You got Pujol's best years. Let someone else pay the sunset money.

[faldor]

10 years is ridiculous for any player, but that's what the market dictated.  That's what it took.  So I can't fault the Angels for that.  In fact, I applaud them.  They just signed away the best player in baseball, AND got the top pitcher in free agency.  Although, CJ has been pretty so-so to bad in BIG games, at least last year.  Still though, 2 major moves that should push them back on top in the AL West.  Getting the best player in baseball AND signing away their rivals best SP.  You can't draw it up much better than that.

How about the 1B class in the AL now?  Pujols, A. Gonzalez, M. Cabrera, Texeira.  Some poor sap is going to lose out on a couple All Star bids.